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Using GPS to Track Teens 541

Posted by CowboyNeal from the big-mother-is-watching dept.
jmoloug1 writes An article at CBSNews that describes a new service available to parents. It uses cell phone GPS to track how fast the teens are driving and then automatically sends an alert back to the parents when a certain limit has been exceeded. Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones? Best of all, it's endorsed by our former chief of military ops in Iraq!"
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Using GPS to Track Teens More

Using GPS to Track Teens

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  • It's a joke! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:09PM (#11060920)
    SMS - 1:11:05: Jacob is driving 110mph

    SMS - 1:11:18: Jacob is driving 120mph

    SMS - 1:11:25: Jacob is driving 140mph

    SMS - 1:11:29: Jacob is driving 180mph

    SMS - 1:11:32: Jacob is driving 220mph

    SMS - 1:11:33: Jacob is driving 0mph

  • So What? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:09PM (#11060922) Homepage Journal
    And, I should care... why? Am I supposed to load up my side by side and start booby trapping the hallways to stop the government enforcers or something? Hellloooo, cluestick: who fucking cares? Parents get to keep tabs on their kids, big news. Whoopdy doo. How is this YRO?

    • Re:So What? (Score:5, Funny)

      by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:21PM (#11060995)
      I don't know what's more embarrassing. To be caught going 100mph on the hightway or 0mph in the backseat in some empty supermarket parking lot.

    • Re:So What? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Police can monitor any cell phone at anytime.
      And set up speed traps accordingly.

      Or better yet, just mail tickets to the
      phone owners. Most will pay; those that
      challenge them will have their tickets
      dropped.

      Is that enough YRO for you?

    • Re:So What? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tassach ( 137772 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:26PM (#11061037)
      How is this YRO?
      Because if parents can track their kids, so can other people. YEs, I'd like to know if my son was speeding, but I *don't* want some for-profit company having access to that data and (for example) selling it to my insurance company or automatically calling the police.

      That said, as a parent I'd NEVER subscribe to this service. When I allow my children to drive, it will because they've demonstrated to me that they are mature enough to handle the responsibilty of driving a car. If I don't trust them enough to let them go out on their own, then they're not going out. Inferring that I have to spy on my kids with an electronic beacon is insulting to both me and them.

      • Re:So What? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Facekhan ( 445017 )
        Aaah more parents living vicariously through their children the way Kim Jung Il lives vicariously through his millions of slave-citizens also under constant surveilance.

        Why not underwear that can tell when teens are sexually aroused. That ought to stop sex in its tracks. Or condom packages that send an sms to the parents (and Walmart) letting them know its their kid's lucky day.

        If parents are too busy to raise their kids by actual physical presence then they should not have them. And parents of teenagers
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Whoopdy doo. How is this YRO?

      Well, I'm guessing you're not 17. Neither am I, but slash does have a fair number of young readers.

    • If universally adopted (at least by parents who can afford it), it means that a generation grows up which is used to well-meaning surveillance using GPS tracking. Some day, this generation will grow up and rule the U.S., and their experience with GPS-based surveillance (or their non-experience, because they view it as a necessary evil) will encourage them to pass new surveillance legislation.

      However, this development is unrealistic because localization of 911 calls from cell phones is already close to imp
      • ... would your phone have a GPS anyway?
        • ... would your phone have a GPS anyway?

          Because it used to be innovative? I wrote tracking software for an experimental mobile phone with GPS capabilities a few years ago. We had to work with the degraded Selective Availability signal (and differential GPS). However, it was quite interesting, and you could do neat things with it.

          It appeared as if there might be a huge market because U.S. legislation was under way to mandate localization of 911 calls, and it wasn't clear if the existing network would all
  • that will get the hair on the back of your folks neck up! :P

  • This is where you... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:11PM (#11060933)
    Put your phone on a plane and send it fasttrack two states over, and get someone to send it back.

    "I was speeding, dad? 1800mph you say, in the saturn?"

  • Teens and mobile phones (Score:5, Funny)

    by RayAlmostAnonymous ( 599340 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:11PM (#11060934)
    Don't know what it is like elsewhere, but here in the UK: - a teen turn off their mobile phone?? I think not :-)

  • What action will parents take? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ronald Dumsfeld ( 723277 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:13PM (#11060948)
    This is stupid. Here's why: What will the average parent do when they get an alert by phone that their child is 20mph over the speed limit?

    They'll phone them.

    Stupid.

  • I say good. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grishnav ( 522003 ) <grishnavNO@SPAMegosurf.net> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:14PM (#11060951) Homepage
    It's about time these youngin's learned that it's about cornering, not speed.

    • Re:I say good. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ztirffritz ( 754606 )
      Cornering is only useful if you live in a state where the roads have bends in them. I grew up in Pennsylvania and the longest straight stretch of road in the entire state was about 25 feat long. We used to joke about the "flatlanders" from Ohio because they didn't know what a steering wheel was used for. The guys in PA had Corvettes that would make the curviest road seem straight. The guys from Ohio had bad-a55 Mustang muscle cars that could do the quarter mile in 3-4 seconds, but couldn't handle for 5h

      • Re:I say good. (Score:3, Informative)

        by ravenspear ( 756059 )
        The guys from Ohio had bad-a55 Mustang muscle cars that could do the quarter mile in 3-4 seconds, but couldn't handle for 5hit.

        That's BS. No street car can do the quarter mile in 3-4 seconds. Even for top fuel dragsters (with much more power and much less weight than a street car) the average range is 5-6 sec. The fastest time a street car can achieve is generally in the 8-9 range, and even that is rare.
        • Well, you're making the assumption of starting from 0. If they're already topped out when you start timing the quarter mile, 4 seconds is doable for a super-duper high end car (225 miles per hour). That's pretty extreme.

          3 seconds per quarter mile is right out, as they would have to average 300 miles per hour.
    • That's the beauty of econo cars - you can tweak the hell out of the suspension to make it corner flat and grip like a nympho gymnast. Anything that makes the car that much fun is good when you realize that you'll never make more than 130whp without spending thousands.
  • http://teenarrivealive.com/faq.htm

    you also discover, it does not work if they are on the phone.. kids in a fast moving car, could simply call each other, and 'flash' over if they get another call..

  • they won't turn off their phones, or change habits (Score:3, Informative)

    by microcars ( 708223 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:17PM (#11060975) Homepage
    a year ago, DATELINE did some sort of "investigative reporting" on Teen Driving and they PUT CAMERAS in cars.

    Teens KNEW the cameras were there and also recording their voices and they STILL would do really stupid stuff, speeding, turning around and talking to passengers while driving, and just basically driving recklessly. No surprises.

    They are just so absorbed in "their" worlds that nothing else matters.

  • man i dodged a bullet (Score:3, Insightful)

    by colmore ( 56499 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:19PM (#11060983) Journal
    gps trackers, electronically tagged drivers licenses, government IDed kegs, drug tests for sports teams and nearly every minimum wage job ...

    They're really trying to legislate the fun out of being young. I'm glad to be in my 20s right now.
  • My cell phone (and most others I suspect) allows me to either 1) turn off GPS or 2) turn off GPS to everyone but 911. Were I a teen, my parents would never know how fast I'm going.
  • 1: Your GPS is better than mine if it works that well through the metal roof of most automobiles with nothing more than a cell phone antenna.

    2: The kids are NOT going to turn off their cell phones. Do you know any teenager that can stand being out of touch with their friends for even 5 minutes while eating dinner with the family? Yeah, right.

    3: Could it help recover lost/stolen cell phones? That alone could be the killer feature.

    4: Of course the kids are on to this, and there will be hacks to t

  • First the children.

    Next the convicts.

    Then those in public service.

    And finally everyone else.

  • Why is it a bad idea if they turn off their phones (Score:3, Insightful)

    by deft ( 253558 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:25PM (#11061025) Homepage
    First of all, it might be a fate worse than death for any teen these days to not have their phone on, but as a parent, thats an easy hurdle to get over.

    If the phone goes off, it is assumed that they were speeding. If they complain, so be it, they dont need to drive. It's not hard to put your foot down, it just seems hard for parents to discipline these days.
    • If the phone goes off, it is assumed that they were speeding. If they complain, so be it, they dont need to drive.

      There is some logic in your statement, however, to assume that your teen would never forget to charge the phone (or plug it into the charger upon getting into a vehicle) would be rather shortsighted. It's one thing if the phone is sporadically dying for five minutes and then coming back on (IE... enough time for a drag race or something), but phones do die.
      • If my kid cant remember to charge a phone, do you think that they should be driving?

        The point is, the child will learn that when you gain a privelage, there is a set of resposibilities that go with it. If one of them is making sure the phone is functioning, then they better take care of it.
    • If the phone goes off, it is assumed that they were speeding.

      Guilty until proven innocent?

  • Lack of Parenting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nodehopper ( 839304 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:29PM (#11061059) Homepage
    This sounds like a perfect solution for those parents who have let the TV babysit their kids for years. They rely on content filters to monitor the kids internet usage and only gauge what the kids listen to and watch based upon the current rating system. Now they don't even have to ask where the kids are going. This sounds like another tool for un-involved, distant and lazy parents to pretend like they care about their kids, but it only sends the message that "we don't trust you". What happened to talking and communicating to kids, teaching them right from wrong and then trusting them to do the right thing.
    • What happened to talking and communicating to kids, teaching them right from wrong and then trusting them to do the right thing.

      Dude, that is SO 20th Century!

      Actually, I agree with you completely. I was listening to a thing on the radio about some woman who moved into a tent in her yard [orlandosentinel.com] because her kids wouldn't take out the garbage, or pick up when they spilled something. And I thought to myself, "Self, WTF? What happened to, 'No TV.'? What happened to, 'You're grounded.'?"

      I mean, holy crap, she's li

  • Parents just have to inform their children that if there is a loss of GPS data for more than n seconds caused by turning the phone off, placing a prolonged call, turning the GPS off on the phone, etc., will result in punative actions. With escalating punishment for each occurance, up to and including prolonged grounding.
    • Parents just have to inform their children that if there is a loss of GPS data for more than n seconds caused by turning the phone off, placing a prolonged call, turning the GPS off on the phone, etc., will result in punative actions. With escalating punishment for each occurance, up to and including prolonged grounding.

      I fear for your kid when he/she goes out driving for the first time on a rainy day... And yes I know from the content of your post that you do not know why that is an issue...
  • I have a better idea. Install a chip inside the cerebral cortex of every newborn baby starting January 1, 2005. This chip will monitor the location of the subject, all its thoughts, and the operation of its body.

    All of this information will be transmitted in real time to a giant government supercluster, which will essentially be a cluster of 8192 clusters, each of which will consist of 128,000 IBM zSeries 1000 computers. These computers will run complex psychological, psychiatric, medical, legal, and financ

  • Violation of privacy, false sense of security. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rbb ( 18825 ) <remco AT rc6 DOT org> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:43PM (#11061155) Homepage
    Here in Norway, we've got Location Services [telenor.no] (often referred to as POS). Any content provider receives the following information connected to an end users location: latitude, longitude, start- and end-angel, inner and outer radius, region, municipal-number and county.

    The system works up to 300m accurate in city centres, but might be as much as 35km accurate in rural areas (since there are less antennas that can be used in triangulating the signal).

    Information about the end user is not available content providers, since those content providers receive only a unique static id for each customer that orders a Location Service.

    A service using POS would be a lot better than a service where you rely on a specific kind of cellphone being on, not in use and equipped with a specific Java application (of which you have no clue what it in fact does, since it was installed for you).

    The best thing of all: with POS users have to specifically approve requests for any content provider. So no sneaky applications that parents can install on mobile phones.

    The invasion of privacy "offered" by the Teens Arrive Alive system should scare any sane American away from the system, assuming that the fact that it comes recommended by the former chief of military ops in Iraq wasn't enough to make you scream and run for your life.

  • this addresses teen driving safety how? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @02:55PM (#11061253)

    How does this address teen driving safety?

    Folks- repeat after me. Not Speeding != Safely driving.

    Teens have a lot of problems with situational awareness- ie where other cars are around them. This is aggrivated by distractions in the car with them; teenage passengers, unlike adults, aren't as good as recognizing when they shouldn't talk to the driver. MA state law places restrictions on who can be in the car with young drivers.

    Teens have a lot of problems with understanding what a car can and cannot do. They've probably never slammed on the brakes to see how slowly their car stops. They've certainly never been on a skidpad. They have no idea what ABS is for (neither do most adults; it's directional stability, NOT 'stopping as fast as possible'). They've never been taught when to steer around obstacles and when to brake for them, and certianly have never been asked to put into practice avoidance skills.

    Teens are often given (or buy) the hand-me-down car, with old safety technology, bad tires/brakes/steering. There are exceptions, but it's rarely the rich kid who got a new small commuter car with 8 airbags and traction control who ends up splattered on a tree. It's the kid who works at the supermarket and drives a +15 year old car he/she bought for $500 and whose parents can't afford to help him/her keep it in excellent shape. Nevermind the safety ratings on inexpensive 0-20 year old US-made small cars is absolutely atrocious. Teens also like SUVs.

    So basically: they need to focus and have situational awareness, they need to have a based-on-experience understanding of the capabilities of THEIR vehicle and basic car handling techniques, and they need to be driving reliable, safe cars.

    Speed comes from a lack of the understanding of the implications (stopping distance skyrockets with speed, for example) and consequences (survivability in a collision plummets, for example). Policing them, just as policing adults, does not solve the root cause. Further- everyone else around them is going to be doing well over the speed limit, so not only are we being hypocritical, but they will be more of a hazard on the road to themselves and others!

    I happen to find it hilarious, given light of recent events, that an automotive safety company has a Iraq war leader as their spokesman. Any comments about armour for Humvees, Mr. Franks?

  • In my opinion, if they could arrange some sort of insurance discount, the system would sell like CRAZY. I think right now it's at least $2000/year for a teen driver.
  • Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones?

    You don't think that any parent that employs something like this wouldn't punish a kid for turning their phone off? I'm not 100% b/c I'm not a parent, but I can almost promise that there are already provisions between certain parents and their children using cell phones today. You can bet that there are parents that will punish their kids if their phones are turned off on a Saturday night while the parent

  • GPS jammer (Score:3, Interesting)

    by imnoteddy ( 568836 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @03:02PM (#11061304)
    One approach is to get an older friend who's an electrical engineer to build this portable GPS jammer [phrack.org].

    "Gee, Dad, the GPS feature on my phone must not work in the car."

  • First, about the trust issue. Just as with the russians... Trust but verify.

    The problem with teenagers is that they have all the maturity and experience of teenagers. Being monitored in such a way helps a kid make better decisions. (not getting caught is a fine motivator) and bad decisions cannot be as well hidden by mearly lying.

    The most heinous and famous of crimes are often committed by kids whose parents had unflinching trust in thm. And the most manipulative and intelligent of those children pro

  • Speeds alone don't really tell a whole lot (Score:4, Insightful)

    by qqaz ( 33114 ) <colin AT colinbaker DOT org> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @03:05PM (#11061327) Homepage
    So, let's say I receive a message saying little Billy is going 60 mph. Is this in some residential area with a 25 mph speed limit, or is it on a highway with a 60 mph speed limit?

    I don't know!

  • Bad parents (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sicking ( 589500 )
    Wow, has parents really become that bad that they don't even trust their kids to drive. In that case they deserve to get what's comming to them when their kids turn off the phone and speed anyway.

    Not that this really affects me. I'm too grown up by now (and I don't have crappy parents), and I certainly don't plan on using this on my kids.
  • Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones?

    Uhm...the parent can simply make their child's driving privileges contingent upon the child keeping the phone on (and with them in the car) while driving.

  • Don't need no new technology to do that. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ArcticCelt ( 660351 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @03:56PM (#11061673)
    "...GPS to track how fast the teens are driving..."

    I worked for a cell phone company (GSM) and I once visited the main network control room and the operators showed me a software that allowed them to triangulate the position of any of their costumer by simply using the antennas of the network.

    Also if I wanted to log the speed of a car when someone is using it, I'll think of a better idea. I'll hide a training/running watch with GPS in the trunk; Nobody can turn it off, no monthly subscription, you will be able to export the data on a computer and you will be the only one who can access the data.

  • GPS speed tracking ureliability (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. ( 142215 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @03:57PM (#11061680) Homepage
    Hasn't their been lots of problems with GPS reliability. Positions chaning wildly, especially right after someone goes in a tunnel, etc, etc.

    The kid could be doing 45 in a 45 and the system comes up with the following:

    13:00:01: 45 MPH Northbound
    13:00:02: 105 MPH Northbound
    13:00:03: 103 MPH Southbound
    13:00:04: 90 MPH Northbound
    13:00:05: 88 MPH Northbound
    13:00:06: 45 MPH Northbound

    Notice the nice average speed of 45 MPH Northbound - this is a logical failure mode for GPS where some of the intermediate positions are scrambled. Please, no one tell me the kid could actually be doing that, unless his car can stop and reverse at over 9G's.

    Of course you can filter the data to eliminate this, but how to do avoid false negatives. Such as the kid ripping up and down the freeway at 105 and then driving off at the speed limit.

    GPS positioning needs to be made better. Joggers using it to track their speed are very annoyed by the inaccuracies.

    Maybe we need an urban positioning system based of triangulation of signal strengths and time delays of transmitters (such as cell towers). That might have made a better decision than GPS or a good backup for it for the E911 cell phone location system.

  • How long before this becomes standard equipment on cars and it isn't your parents but the police that are notified?

    Arnie in Cali already wants to use some GPS tech to track how far people drive and tax them accordingly (why isn't a gas tax better??).
  • What about teenagers with a secret superhero identity and special or mutant modes of transportation? How is Peter Parker going to web-sling across New York in time to stop a villan if Aunt May keeps keeps getting strange text-messages? Flying, teleporting, super-speed, forget it!

    This is obvious a sinister plot by some evil super-villan!

  • Hook it to the stereo. (Score:3, Funny)

    by cra ( 172225 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @04:26PM (#11061874) Homepage
    If the kids go faster than a certain speed, say 50Mph or so, the stereo shuts down. That way they can either cruise along and listen to their music, or they can go fast and not have that 300 beats-per-minute tune mess with their concentration.

  • No problem. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xs650 ( 741277 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @05:01PM (#11062039)
    Anyone who has used GPS knows it won't work with a layer of sheet metal between it and the GPS satellites.

    Just keep the cell phone near the center of the car up near the roof. It will be blocked from GPS signals but still get cellular signals because they come in horizontally through the windows.

    I predict a market for headliner mounted cell phone holders will develop.

  • Here's an idea.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <.ten.pbp. .ta. .maps.> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @05:32PM (#11062272)
    Just teach people how to drive before they can get their license.

    I cannot find one single public school in the Bay Area that still teaches drivers ed. Getting a license is *TOO EASY* in California. You don't even have to speak English - they'll give you the test in your native language.

    I say that before anyone gets a license, they must undergo no less than 16 hours of classroom training and defensive driving courses. If they pass, they get a license. If not, more training. There are just far too many people driving around here that really have no idea how to drive, and it's dangerous.

    Forget this GPS tracking & tattle-tale electronics crap - just LEARN TO DRIVE.

    God! We're putting a technology "solution" on a problem that has such obviously superior solutions - again.

  • The company founder is stupid (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Wolfier ( 94144 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @07:30PM (#11062963)
    He said "it is the right and responsibility" to know where they're going and how fast.

    Gimme a break. If you need to know these things about your kids, there's something wrong how you brought them up.

    It's too late to track them.

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