eBay Fraud Vigilantes 357
firstadopter.com writes "New York Times (free registration needed) is reporting that users are sick of internet fraud on eBay. With lack of help from the company, they are taking the law into their own hands and closing down auctions they think are obvious scams."
Reg Free Link (Score:5, Informative)
Expensive Electronics Cheap Scams, not taken down (Score:5, Informative)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795846600&category=52476 [ebay.com]
***Please note, this auction is not selling the electronics themselves,we're selling electronic book packages that get you listed on a revolving list at our website. For list information and any other questions please visit our webpage @ www.revbuys.com--$220.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795844320&category=52476 [ebay.com]
**You are not buying the actual item, you are buying a link to a website where you can obtain the item for around a $250 US dollars. Link also includes lots of other good deals on nice electronics** $5.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795281687&category=52476 [ebay.com]
Please Read Auction Carefully. Winner will recieve information on where they can buy an Alienware Area-51 Extreme for only 275$. This is perfectly legal and I am usuing mine right now. Only one Alienware 275$ computer per household, so you can see why I am not selling the computers, but I am working on that.--$49.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795708246&category=40176 [ebay.com]
Please Read Description Carefully Before You Bid! you are not buying any electronics in this auction. Here are some examples of the amazing deals you will get upon winning this auction:
Products:
JL Audio 10w7 Subwoofer: $100
Sony DVD/CD Changer: $100
Sony Motorized indash 7" LCD: $100
Exhaust Systems from $50
NOS Kits: $100
Body Kits: $100
Playstation 2: $40
Video Games: $20
Gateway 42" Plasma TV: $200
Sony DVD Dream Surround System: $100
Sony Digital Camcorder: $100
40GB Apple iPod: $115
Compaq iPaq PDA: $50
Panasonic Portable DVD Player: $50
Alienware Desktop or Laptop: $275
Sony VIAO Desktop: $150
Sony VIAO Laptop: $100
AND MANY MANY MANY MORE!!!!
Shipping is absolutely free!, If you have any questions, please feel free to email us at http://TankDoggSC@aol.com $3.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2795726979&category=52476 [ebay.com]
The item for sale isnt the real PC.the highest bidder will recieve the link to the site where you can purchase it for 160/275$.WHOEVER SAID ''THIS ISNT A REAL PC JUST A BUNCH OF LINKS'' MEANS THEY DID NOT READ THIS. $5.50-6 bids
www.paypalsucks.com (Score:5, Informative)
Don't use paypal's "withdraw from bank account" option. Use the credit card option. If something goes wrong and you go past 30 days - your are screwed. My experience is that Paypal (an ebay company) is the worst in getting problems resolved.
www.paypalsucks.com
eBay Does Do A Lot... (Score:5, Informative)
Really, what should be happening is that eBay should cooperate as much as possible with the banks/credit companies, and that would take care of a lot of fraud then and there.
Re:No-reg link (Score:2, Informative)
Here's a tip (Score:2, Informative)
Good! (Score:1, Informative)
Take the law in your own hands!!!
Absolutely (Score:5, Informative)
eBay AND PayPal sucks ... (Score:3, Informative)
auctioneer instead of the customer. As a
fee based system, they derive the bulk of
their income from these same auctioneers.
By joining eBay, the bidders relinquish
any right to sue, and the cap on any
arbitrated settlement is $200. PayPal
might be convenient, but they have next
to zero for security and auditing. A
close friend had their checking account
cleaned out by someone either at PayPal
or one of the auctioneers. I stopped
doing ANY business with eBay after getting
ripped off a few times in rapid succession.
Going on eBay is like walking in the barrio
streets of Rio De Janero with you wallet
hanging half-way out of your pocket. The
old adage "Buyer Beware" doesn't even
come close to the risks. Anyone that
would consider buying an automobile, let
alone a house, on eBay must be daft.
Don't forget Paypal scams! (Score:5, Informative)
They have an item asking if you received ANYTHING in the mail. So I checked that off. Bad mistake! They classified the report as "misrepresented item"!!!! Then a few days later closed the complaint saying they didn't do anything in those cases!
Paypal = SCAM CITY
Lesson: accept Paypal payments for expensive items and mail a jellybean to the buyer. Paypal will support you all the way.
Re:Expensive Electronics Cheap Scams, not taken do (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Reg Free Link (Score:2, Informative)
Re:eBay AND PayPal sucks ... (Score:2, Informative)
I have noticed that my wife, who buys what I would call 'cheap trashy things' on eBay, like 'collectable christmas ornaments,' runs with a less reputable crowd. Likewise, buying or selling 'new laptops' on eBay is a crapshoot.
But there are different crowds buying and selling different things. I mostly buy and sell in pure 'geek' categories (things you're almost entirely unable to buy any other way, like used Sun hardware) and I find it an ethical 'geek' community I deal with.
Re:Reg Free Link (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Reg Free Link (Score:2, Informative)
If that doesn't work, try cypherpunk:cypherpunk1.
On sites that require an e-mail address as the login (Belo TV stations, for example) cypher@punk.net:cypherpunk.
Re:Absolutely (Score:3, Informative)
You can still file with them after the 30 day deadline to meet this requirement, and of course your claim with Paypal will quickly get rejected, but then you'll be in the clear with them.
A VERY good idea is to open up a second chequing account with no funds in it, so if they try to dip in (which they have been known to), they'll get nowhere. I have a 2nd account at my bank and I can easily transfer funds between the two accounts as needed in seconds.
Funny thing is that they once locked my Paypal debit Mastercard for "suspicious activity" when I was just purchasing items locally. But then when I legitimately purchased some items from Thailand (fraud hotspot!), nothing skipped a beat. Heh.
Re:OK, but... (Score:4, Informative)
And it is free. As Dan's Data would say, Recommended.
Re:eBay AND PayPal sucks ... (Score:3, Informative)
That's where Paypal makes the real money.
By signing up with Paypal, you allow them to go into your bank account to cover certain debts. That's why you should open a 2nd account with nothing in it. Why walk in a legal gray area when you can prevent the situation from happening entirely.
I'd say Paypal favours the buyer and not the seller anyway, if you don't have a confirmed address and the seller ships, even with tracking, you can dispute it and win and get your money back if they still have funds in their account.
You can even dispute the transaction 5 seconds after you paid if you want.
Vigilante Justice works! (Score:5, Informative)
Full details on the event are in my advogato diary [advogato.org].
Basically the scam was that this seller puts a laptop model for sale on eBay, dozens of times. Dozens of people bid on the item and he picks the 'n' number of highest bidders to "win" the auction. At no time does he own these laptop models he is selling. He requires that all payment be sent to him within 5 days of the auction close.
After 4-6 weeks of delays, people start sending emails, getting pissed, and mad. "Brian Silverman" emails them back, with excuses about delays at the "warehouse" and other excuses.
Meanwhile, 2-2.5 months later, he purchases the laptop model, at quite a discounted price from the vendor (not being the "newest" model on the market anymore).
So he keeps hundreds of thousands of dollars in auction buyers' money in his account, accruing interest, and then he purchases the laptops, at roughly 30-40% less than his original auction price.
But wait, it gets better... Brian decided that the whole "send the item to the buyer" part of the scam was eating into his profits too much, so he decided to just not send any laptops to anyone.
I was the last person he ever sent a laptop to. I actually tracked him down, and called him at home one night to demand my laptop, or the FBI would be at his door in 30 minutes. He claimed he would send it out that night, and double the RAM "for my troubles". A week later, I did indeed receive the laptop.
But I posted all of the details in my Advogato diary entries. Hundreds of other people who were being scammed by Brian Silverman googled [google.com] for his "electro_depot" name, and my diary entry was the only one to come up. They would email me directly asking for more details.
I then received a call from the NY Cyber Crime division, asking me if I had any details on the "scam" with Brian Silverman, and if anyone else had contacted me, because they had a "few calls".
I said I had 141 separate people who had emailed me to complain. 141 people!!!
The end result, was that Mr. Silverman was tracked down out of the country, and the FTC caught and nailed him. I even received a nice little letter from the FTC praising me for my efforts in catching him.
My diary entry was THE reason people were brought together, and the FTC and NYPD took notice in the matter.
Vigilante justice does definately work, but you have to be very careful about how you go about it. After people found my diary entry, they created all of those other websites to track and report on Mr. Silverman's scams.
(And that T23 that I "won" is currently at IBM repair, for the 6th time in 2 years, so it wasn't exactly a "win" in my case).
Re:Expensive Electronics Cheap Scams, not taken do (Score:5, Informative)
Another fraud, not exactly through eBay... (Score:3, Informative)
I put in a bogus name and password and it passed me right on to the next page where they ask for all your info, including a credit card. I plugged in more bogus info and it responds with yet enother page that looks exactly like eBay's that says congrats you've updated your info. I wonder how many people fall for this?
I also wonder if it would be technically illegal to use curl to submit a few thousand million POST requests with bogus info to that scam page?
Re:Editors: How hard is it to include GOOGLE links (Score:1, Informative)
Tips (Score:5, Informative)
- Check feedback. Not just the number, but the comments. Read the negative and neutral comments and judge whether it was the seller's fault ("you never shipped") or the buyer's fault ("my notebook didn't have an OS" when the auction said so) or neither ("broken item, seller replaced, OK").
- Sanity check prices. A brand new Sony notebook on buy-it-now for $49 is a fraud. A used Dell CSx with a PIII 500, 20GB HDD, DVD/CD-RW, Windows 2000, good battery, and 256MB Memory for $350 is a stupid seller.
- Remember, prices on auctions often start low and go high. SET A HARD LIMIT. DO NOT BID MORE. It is easy to get into a bidding war and end up paying way more than you wanted.
- DO NOT PAY WITH A WIRE TRANSFER. PAY ONLY USING PAYPAL AND ONLY WITH A CREDIT CARD.
- Ask bogus questions. If you are buying a notebook, ask if it has the "hyperspeed math co-processor". If you get a "yes" answer, it's a fraud.
- Know what you are buying. If you have a question, ASK before you bid.
- Compare with similar auctions. Check completed auctions. If something seems off, ask about it.
- Know how much shipping is.
- Make sure you aren't buying pirated software. If it includes Windows, make sure there is a COA (unless you plan on loading Linux).
Re:Absolutely (Score:3, Informative)
I agree. A second checking account with Visa Check Card is a must. I however don't do that at present *jumps into flat-retardent tidy-whities*. Yeah, I really need to stop using my actual Check Card online. I'm really lucky I've never been screwed royally. IIRC American Express has a really nice feature that I would love to be able to use. If memory serves me correctly they offer disposal credit card numbers. What I seem to remember is that you log on to their website, tell them you need a temp number, tell them for how much, and they'll issue a temporarily number with that specific dollar amount as a limit. That way even if your card info is stolen it won't do anyone any good. I pity the fool...
At the very least get a second checking account with a bank that allows you to do online transfers (perferrably instantly). Have the bank not allow any overdrafts (most banks will do this if you ask). I need to start doing this more often.
I've never had any CC company temporarily or otherwise disable my card because of suspicious activity. Back when I repaired and sold Macs in Wichita I had a couple customers that couldn't purchase a new system without calling into the number on the back, identifying themselves, and telling the CC company what they were about to do and the dollar amount of the purchase. Never happened to me but I wouldn't mind if it I could easily get a purchase through with a simple phone call. Ironic what's suspicious and what isn't.
Nooooo (Score:3, Informative)
ALWAYS PAY WITH CREDIT CARD. Credit cards offer you the protection of canceling a fradulant charge within 30 days. A misshipped item that they refuse to exchange counts. Contact the seller and demand a refund. If they don't ssue one, stop payment on your card. Contact the seller and let them know you are happy to ship it back to them, at their expense.
Also, if you get ripped off, SUE THEM! Our courts are here for a REASON. Unless you are buying something quite expensive, you should be able to sue in small claims court. The monetary limit is like $2000-$3000 in most jurisdictions. It's usually $20 to file a suit, and you don't need a lawyer. Try to get their personal information from eBay and Paypal. If they can't or won't give it to you, file the suit and subpoena it. They'll give it to the court (they have no choice).
While I agree that PayPal and eBay need to work harder on stopping fraud, you have a good deal of responsibility too. If you get ripped off, online or not, crying about it doesn't get you anywhere. You take action to get your money back. I've been ripped off by Pep Boys. A letter to my bank, an independent expert inspection of my vehicle, and some documentation, and I got my money back.
Don't roll over, just keep upping the stakes till you get what's yours. First try talking to the seller, if they dont' respond try PayPal, if they screw you stop the charges on your card, if that becomes a problem take it to small claims court.
Re:I used to vigilante too (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Want to stamp out fraud? (Score:2, Informative)
EBay could choose to authenticate their users much better than they do, but they choose not to. They could even go as far as make all transactions go through their own escrow service if they seriously wanted to stamp out the fraud. However, since EBay makes as much money off a bogus transaction as a legit one, they'll really only care if enough people stop using the service to affect their bottom line or the law cracks down on them.
Re:Another fraud, not exactly through eBay... (Score:1, Informative)
Probably, but is your target really going to complain....
I dun't know about curl, but
Re:Don't forget Paypal scams! (Score:3, Informative)
If so, he's the same guy who scammed me in the same way. I purchased a copy of Mac Quark Passport at a reasonable price, and got a OEM Windows Installation CD/Manual/hologram certification instead.
The return address was made up, but it definitely came from Tbilisi. Anyhow, I contacted paypal, and essentially they said that since he committed 5 actions that were clearly fraud, and one action which was not covered by their insurance, then therefore the fraud was not covered, and they were not going to pay anything.
Paypal itself commits fraud.
I thought it might change when Ebay bought them out, but it didn't change significantly, it seems.
Re:eBay AND PayPal sucks ... (Score:2, Informative)
I know a guy who bought a pristine Saab 900S through eBay. He said he was nervous about the deal, but ended getting the car for a song (this was back when you could actually find good deals on eBay).
Similary, I had the rare occasion of finding a car I was looking for in a location not far from my home. I drove down to look at it and I can say this much. If a picture is worth a thousand words, I would much rather have had the words. Or at least he could have told me it was a rust bucket before I made the two hour drive. Looked great in the pictures though!
Nog
Re:Once... (Score:2, Informative)
Or he could have just been a scammer.
Re:I used to vigilante too (Score:5, Informative)
Next I checked his sign up details, he'd created 50 accounts all with the same details (e.g. firstname, lastname, address were all identical). Finally, earlier that week I had noticed a large amount of traffic from eBay's mail system, delivering lots of emails to these accounts.
With a give away like that I did one final check by looking up some of his addresses on eBay. He was selling satellite nav, plasma TVs etc, and all of it was way too cheap for what it was worth. At this point I thought that if he wasn't scamming, why set up 50 separate accounts? The whole point of the eBay feedback system is that lots of good feedback shows you are a trustworthy seller. So by then I was certain he was up to no good and checked one of his mailboxes, which revealed the last of his tricks:
The guy would open an auction, and invite potential buyers to email him any questions about the product. When he'd got enough "fish on the hook" he would close the auction and email the "fish" telling them he was having problems with eBay but he was still willing to sell if they were interested. He then asked if they would mind paying him directly.... Since he only had 1 of each product to sell on eBay it was clear he was trying to sell the same thing multiple times and by being paid directly he was skipping the relative safety of PayPal et al. At which point I slapped the auto-responders on and locked his accounts.
It is a condition in our T&Cs that we reserve the right to inspect an account if we suspect illegal activity, but I only exercise that right if I am absolutely sure there is something going on. Usually this means an email sent to the abuse address with headers that prove the email came from our system.
Now, if you think eBay scammers are bad, try keeping 419ers of your system. Luckily the rise of broadband means they usually have the same IP address for extended periods of time. So when we are informed of a scamming account we can find all of their other accounts at the same time.