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RIAA Prepares Legal Blitz Against Filesharers 1192

Sayonara writes "The RIAA are now well and truly gathering their forces for a financial onslaught on file sharers in the US, with a "fear and awe" campaign targetting college and high school students in particular. The strategy can be reduced to 'We should really charge you $150,000 per song you have downloaded. Pay us $50,000 now, and we'll say no more about it.' In a related article, the BBC describes how the netizen known as 'nycfashiongirl' is now attempting to delay the RIAA's case against her by claiming their investigation of her online activities was illegal. The RIAA has dismissed these arguments as 'shallow.'"
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RIAA Prepares Legal Blitz Against Filesharers

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  • Joy (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:04PM (#6859549)
    The RIAA is still at it, huh? It's almost funny to watch how they pursue people, asking these outrageous sums. Then you realize that they really ARE bothering these people and it's not so funny anymore...
  • shallow? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mschoolbus ( 627182 ) <travisriley@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:05PM (#6859564)
    I think its pretty 'shallow' of them to bring people to court over this issue. How do they know you don't legally own all the MP3s or movies you are downloading?...
  • by 3.5 stripes ( 578410 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:06PM (#6859580)
    I really can't see anything positive coming out of this, people are going to be screwed (pay up because they can't afford the lawyer), the pblic won't care, and the RIAA will just gain more momentum.

    The laws that make it possible won't get changed either.

    *sigh*
  • GOOD! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Planesdragon ( 210349 ) <slashdot@noSpAM.castlesteelstone.us> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:07PM (#6859590) Homepage Journal
    In a related article, the BBC describes how the netizen known as 'nycfashiongirl' is now attempting to delay the RIAA's case against her by claiming their investigation of her online activities was illegal. The RIAA has dismissed these arguments as 'shallow.'"

    God, I hope that gets tossed out. Well, actually, I hope it all gets tossed out, or 'nycfashiongirl' gets a small ($1/song shared) damage against her.

    Repeat after me: You have no privacy on the internet. Any privacy you think you might have is simply you being too small and insignificant for anyone to bother to look. Consider your activities to be taking place on a sidewalk using postcards and loud voices--and act accordingly.

    *sigh*
  • Sooo... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tyrdium ( 670229 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:08PM (#6859605) Homepage
    They're targeting high school and college students... Who tend to not have much money... Will they really be allowed to ruin the lives of hundreds (if not thousands, or tens of thousands) of people, just so some execs can make a little more cash? And also, don't college students have a tendency to rebel against things like this? There's going to be a gigantic uprising...
  • by Jonas the Bold ( 701271 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:08PM (#6859609)
    Except these guys are actually dangerous. Can we stop feeding the SCO trolls, and have more articles about this? Maybe some ask slashdots with actual lawyers about what to do if they sue you, what they can actually legally do, etc.?

    Someone's really gotta put a stop to this. Where are they getting this $150,000 number from? If you go into a record store, steal the CD, go outside the store with your laptop, and start burning free copies for people walking in, would you fine be nearly as high?

    Why the bias against people who "steal" (or infringe copywrites) with computers?
  • by pdbogen ( 596723 ) <tricia-slashdot.cernu@us> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:09PM (#6859613)
    The tactic is broadly to remind those it catches of the truly draconian penalties the law in the United States allows ($150,000 per song - and you don't have to be a Berkeley mathematician to multiply that a few times to get more dollars that any student loan could cover).

    Then when the poor student has picked himself up from the floor and the blood returns to his face, the lawyers will say broadly: "OK, we'll let you off the fine if you agree to pay, let's say, a mere $15,000". ...
    Furthermore, in one recent case, a college student was told that just by filing an answer in court, the cost of any final settlement would rise by $50,000.


    If this isn't extortion, By God, I don't know what is.
  • High Schools... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BJZQ8 ( 644168 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:09PM (#6859614) Homepage Journal
    Most High Schools use proxies...if the kids are running Kazaa at school and using a proxy, then it would be unethical and highly illegal to divulge their names to a non-law-enforcement-entity such as the RIAA. Anyway, an intelligent administrator would flush their logs every day.
  • Open season? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bmf033069 ( 149738 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:09PM (#6859618)
    "Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies."

    By that logic, everyone is open to whatever searches of other people's systems they want. Why is the US gov't going after people for "hacking", if the intent is just to look around then all is fine according to them.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:09PM (#6859619)
    First, when the RIAA went after Napster, and the p2p software makers, you people were crying for them to go after the individual pirates, instead of the technology that facilitates the piracy.

    Now that they are actuallly employing this strategy, the cry is noo!! It's wrong, it's bad, or, or something.

    What's the deal here? Do you people just don't care about copyright infringement? You people have no idea what it takes to create something and try to make money on it.
  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lawbeefaroni ( 246892 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:10PM (#6859623) Homepage
    "Shallow" as in based on that worthless piece of over-valued toilet paper also known by some backwards thinkers as The Constitution. This in vivid contrast to the deep and meaningful music they peddle on the consumer.
  • Oh, sure... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by musingmelpomene ( 703985 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:10PM (#6859629) Homepage
    $50,000 per song. 6,000 songs and 100 full length movies...yeah, excuse me while I pull that money out of my ass. Hasn't the RIAA ever heard the phrase "blood from a turnip"? What are they going to do, rob piggy banks? I'm sure their lawyers will be really satisfied with the $300 most college kids have in savings.
  • Shallow (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RickHunter ( 103108 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:11PM (#6859638)

    Because due process is shallow and boring and not really necessary, right? If the RIAA says you're doing something bad, well, that should be all the proof the government needs!

    Sheesh. If they're breaking the law to catch people breaking the law, they're still breaking the law.

  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by syntap ( 242090 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:11PM (#6859642)
    This isn't an issue because they are targeting users who share MP3's, ie make them available for upload. Though one can argue that downloading an MP3 is legal and fine if you already own a CD with that song on it, but it's hard to argue that it's legal for you to make that freely available for download on the assumption that whoever downloads it is doing so legally.

    I don't know why anyone is complaining about this campaign... the ./ crowd has said all along that the tools shouldn't be attacked, the violators should be attacked. That's what the RIAA is doing. They're not targeting downloaders (yet).
  • well done RIAA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nocent ( 71113 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:13PM (#6859663)
    Well done RIAA! You've successfully embedded the "evil recording industry" image into the hearts and minds of the youth of today, your primary consumers. You may prevent some people sharing your music but you've turned millions more from ever buying a RIAA artist's CD ever again. Previously, people might have felt bad about depriving the artist of income but now, they'll just think "screw them". Well done.
  • Extortion (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:14PM (#6859676) Journal
    Someday, someone with several thousand songs will call their bluff, and challenge them. Perhaps in court, they'll point out how stupid the RIAA looks demanding more money than the entire record industry is worth in damages. Perhaps.

    The thing is, even if a court does rule that you owe the RIAA $100 000 000, what would happen? It's not like they could ever collect. I never expect to own that much money.
  • Re:shallow? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by timmy the large ( 223281 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:15PM (#6859685)
    I hater to say it, but you are right. When they sued napster everyone said it wasnt napster, but the users.

    Well now they are going for the users.

  • by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) <philsand@NoSpaM.ufl.edu> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:16PM (#6859699) Homepage
    At least in my case, yeah, you hit the nail right on the head.

    I think copyright is evil. In its original form it might have been argued to at least be a practical good, and thus worth keeping around, but in its current form it is out and out evil, in that it attempts to squash the development and exchange of ideas in favor of the development and exchange of profit, and ideas are a fundamental part of the development of civilization.

    Seeing as I think civil disobedience was one of the better ideas developed lately, I'm pretty much likely to support any user who shares just about any file.
  • Immunity??? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:17PM (#6859703)
    [RIAA vice-president] Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.

    So if I hack Mr. Oppenheims computer and "unreasonably" search it (i.e. rifle through his private data) I am immune to rules on unreasonable searches because I am a hacker and not a cop? Nice to know.... Now where did I put that SubSeven kit.....

  • "Futile" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by barryfandango ( 627554 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:18PM (#6859712)
    While I applaud nycfashiongirl's stand, it appears to me that it may indeed be "shallow." The RIAA is not a law-enforcement agency, so is not bound to regulations regarding surveillance. And more importantly, she chose to share her many pirated files on a file-sharing service. How could they have violated her privacy when she decided to publicly display the files to the world? They didn't have to violate anything.
  • by reptilicus ( 605251 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:20PM (#6859745)
    But the RIAA isn't invading anyone's house or computer, they're just going through the public directories of shared files that people put up on p2p networks. I'm not a fan of the RIAA, but this is not an invasion of privacy.
  • by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben@inUMLAUTt.com minus punct> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:20PM (#6859752) Homepage
    Why are they just going after P2P filesharing? Why not vigorously prosecute those who download music off of Usenet? Or those who copy CD's from friends? How about people who make bootlegs?

    I'll tell you why. It's because P2P is an alternative distribution model that threatens their business (in the long term) much much more than a little music piracy by college students who wouldn't be able to afford to buy the thousands of songs they steal anyway.

    This is, and has always been, about controlling music distribution and not about stopping piracy. Piracy is a side effect of the real problem: Loss of Control.
  • by YetAnotherName ( 168064 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:21PM (#6859758) Homepage
    RIAA vice-president Matt Oppenheim...added that the claim about violating the woman's internet address "reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of how the internet works".

    Sorry, pal. You're a VP. I'm an engineer. I've had an email address since 1988, and I was using ed to write homework papers formatted with roff in 3rd grade on an ancient Unix system. You do not know how the Internet works.
  • by Genjurosan ( 601032 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:21PM (#6859759)
    I would venture that the number of posts on /. concerning the RIAA is directly driven by the level of stupidity that the RIAA touts to the world. As the stupidity goes up, the amount of posts should go down, as there really isn't much else to do these days other than shake your head with the silent understanding that the RIAA is killing those that they represent.

    Don't they understand that college students and high school students download songs because they are broke? Now with the continued slash and burn method; once the college student graduates and finds a job, this new generation of 'pissed off at the RIAA' simply are not going to purchase music legally simply out of hate, spite, etc...
  • Death to RIAA. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HanzoSan ( 251665 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:21PM (#6859763) Homepage Journal


    Since they have declared war on us with this scare and awe bullshit, this only will speed up their own demise. There was once a time when the RIAA had a chance to actually take their piece of the pie and keep some market share by selling music to consumers embracing the new technology, but the RIAA has totally fucked it up and ruined their chances of actually surviving this.

    So here is what will happen, the RIAA meaning record companies will cease to exist. I dont know how they figure they can sue people into buying music, or scare people into buying music, all this will do is make us boycott. I was not boycotting the RIAA until they started doing this, now I will never buy another RIAA CD. I will buy used CDs from ebay, I will pirate, I will do whatever it takes to keep from ever supporting the big record companies again.

    I will support small record companies. I see it like this, why support someone who wants to sue me? Why should I support someone who is damaging the music industry for the musicians as well as the consumer?

  • You're thinking of criminal law. When the government is brining a case against you, there are far stricter rules.

    When it's a private party, the rules aren't _quite_ as tight.
  • Cribs (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JeepingNET ( 522361 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:21PM (#6859770)
    How are we susposed to take this all serious that ohhh they are loosing so much money when they put shows like cribs on tv... I hardly afford rent yet I go and spent $20 on a CD.. Go over to my parents (cause i cann't afford cable) and see the show cribs... see the artist who's cd i just bought in this big huge house just blowing away all this cash.. Ya sure.. he certainly needed my money.. I understand he only even gets a fraction of what I pay for the record so if he has say 20 million then the record company must have made like 100 million... hard to feel sorry for them when they live much better than I
  • Re:brockman (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:22PM (#6859777)
    I, for one, welcome our new Record Executive Overlords.

    Uhh, new?

  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by (trb001) ( 224998 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:24PM (#6859808) Homepage
    Public libraries make books easily available to the masses...these works are legal for them to own, but they are copyrighted and it is illegal for someone to copy them verbatim. If someone did that, the person who copied the book is held liable, not the library.

    Show me the difference.
  • by Harp3328 ( 695332 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:25PM (#6859814) Journal
    Copyright is evil. The laws should change.
  • by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:25PM (#6859815) Journal
    I don't see how it applies.

    If you put your files, publically, on a public peer2peer network, what's there to complain about when someone sees what you're sharing?
  • by KalvinB ( 205500 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:27PM (#6859841) Homepage
    They aren't going after people for what they download. They're going after people for what they're sharing.

    Technically it's illegal to even make copies for your friends but the RIAA (or anybody for that matter) can't feasibly do anything about it. But when you share your CDs (whether you own a legal copy or not is irrelavent) for millions of your closest "friends" then no duh you're looking to get in trouble.

    It's idiotic that people think they can put CDs on the black market for the whole world to see what they're doing and then expect that their ISP is going to act as some kind of security guard to prevent them from being arrested.

    Putting copyrighted materials on Kazaa is no different than firing up a burner and setting up at a street corner selling or even giving away copies except that your production costs are practically $0 with Zazaa.

    You have no legal grounds to aquire anything you own from an illegal source. It doesn't matter if you own the CD. If you buy (or are given something) from the black market you've just committed a crime. Unless a company gives you a Lifetime Warrenty you haze ZERO expectations that what you bought is going to last forever. And if it becomes unusable then you have no legal recourse but to buy another if you didn't have some form of backup that you made yourself from your legal copy that you originally purchased.

    Ben
  • by JessLeah ( 625838 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:27PM (#6859845)
    This is the RIAA we're talking about. When you're one of the most politically powerful lobbies in the nation, nothing you can do is "extortion". This is merely "business".
  • Break the law... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by no_opinion ( 148098 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:27PM (#6859848)
    As far as I know, *no one* with any legal sense (including the EFF, Lessig, etc.) thinks that distributing copyrighted files is legal. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post it. The people the RIAA are going after are making hundreds of files available - they're not just downloaders. So I have no sympathy for these people, especially since they were warned. It's like hearing the cops say "we're going to set up a speed trap here" and then complaining when you get pulled over for going 90mph.
  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gaijin42 ( 317411 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:28PM (#6859855)
    The library has one copy of the book. When they loan it to you, they dont have it anymore. They make you give the book back.

  • How to fix this (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:28PM (#6859858)
    Lessig [lessig.org] just posted a good comment on the draconian fees.

    Anyway, there's an easy solution: quit downloading RIAA stuff and go for independent music instead. Artist-approved downloads. If you absolutely must have an RIAA tune, buy it, but otherwise ignore their stuff entirely. They'll be bankrupt in no time, with no legal recourse whatsoever.

    And the best part is, we don't need any special boycott campaign. The RIAA is taking care of that for us. All we need to do is publicize the alternatives, as vigorously as possible.

    Want to do your bit? Link to independent music on your weblog. If the RIAA isn't completely braindead (which is an open question), then this is what they're afraid of more than anything. Piracy is nothing compared to irrelevance.

  • Re:Death to RIAA. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:29PM (#6859869)
    Of course. The RIAA is obsolete, everyone knows it. We should destroy their effective method of providing music to everyone via widely available CD vendors and replace it with a mechanism that only allows a tech elite with access to broadband Internet connections to listen, with all new music being recorded and produced in people's garages using the very highest quality Radio Shack $10 microphones, by performers who get a chance to compose music about once in a blue moon given they work nine hours a day doing "real" work - presumably on something much more useful and enriching to society than music, say, lawyering, or providing tax advice.

    That'll make the world a much better place.

    You know, if the RIAA and the anti-RIAA weren't being such destructive, pointless, vengeful, nutjobs, maybe something sane and wonderful in the world of music might happen.

  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TClevenger ( 252206 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:30PM (#6859884)
    Uh, yes, really. I'm downloading AC/DC's Back in Black. My first one got stolen out of my car, and my second one is so scratched up as to be unlistenable. So, yeah, I'm downloading it; I'm not paying another "RIAA tax" for music I already own.

    Oh, and these four 80's compilations I bought trying to find Der Kommissar by After the Fire? They don't have it, so I downloaded it. Here, I'll give the RIAA back three copies of She Blinded Me With Science in exchange.

    Oh, and I bought the Steve Miller Greatest Hits, but they shafted me with the short version of "Fly Like An Eagle", so I downloaded the full version. Fuck 'em.

  • by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) <philsand@NoSpaM.ufl.edu> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:30PM (#6859887) Homepage
    Some day, you're going to encounter a serious academic - someone with graduate degrees in philosophy, English, or some other humanistic discipline. Someone who has put a lot of effort into thinking about how people operate, into aesthetics, ethics, and the like.

    When you encounter this person, you will likely have a conversation with them. You will probably bring up Ayn Rand.

    When this person snickers at the mention of her, I want you to think back to this conversation.

    Meanwhile, I'll be reading this journal article I just got published, being really annoyed that someone other than me now claims ownership to my writing, and remembering once again why I hate the idea of owning ideas.
  • Re:Joy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by letxa2000 ( 215841 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:32PM (#6859920)
    "The strategy can be reduced to 'We should really charge you $150,000 per song you have downloaded. Pay us $50,000 now, and we'll say no more about it.'"

    So they're going after high school and college students for $50k? Yeah, right. The RIAA might actually succeed at causing these people to get a free college education... if they have a college debt and the RIAA comes after them for $50k they might just have to declare bankruptcy and their higher education turns out to be free.

    This is all just absurd, of course. The penalty does not fit the crime. If I were one of them and received a judgement for $50k, I'd be quite tempted to move to Cancun and just forget about it. :)

  • by pirhana ( 577758 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:34PM (#6859953)
    I can't speak for others. But I can tell you about myself. The fundamental issue here is not whether somebody breaks they law or not. RIAA's business model is outdated. The digitalization of property is a reality and they have not yet contained it or accustomed to it. Have you ever wondered why nobody is bothering to take xerox copy of newspapers and sell it even though its possible? beccoz they cant . Newspaper industry (which see some real competetion unlike music industry where collusion and price fixing is rampant) has adapted itself to the time and developed a succesfull business model. They are no more depenedednt on advertisement revenue rather than the price of a physical copy. They have successfully contained internet too. Untill and unless RIAA make fundamental changes in their business model and adapt like this, this issue is going to continue . People WOULD share music regardless any amount of litigation or anything else. Victo Hugo had said it long back "You can stop an invading force, but you cant stop an idea whose time has come "
  • by WildBeast ( 189336 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:34PM (#6859957) Journal
    Neither do I but then again I have even less sympathy for the RIAA who are even worst criminals.
    In short, I side with the lesser evil.
  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:35PM (#6859966)
    But not for corperations. People are free to not buy you products. They don't buy your stuff, you don't make money. You don't make money, you go out of bussiness. Companies must be careful about not making their consumers angry enough to start a serious boycott. Thus far, the RIAA has been fine, the geeks boycott and everyone else goes about their merry way. However if they anger the public at large, they'll quickly find they have no market to sell to.

    Will this do that? I don't know, but it is somethign they have to consider.
  • Let them. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HanzoSan ( 251665 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:35PM (#6859967) Homepage Journal


    I mean they already blame piracy for the recession, so who cares? Lets actually give them a reason to blame it on piracy! Lets directly take their profits away.

    "Either way they'll be portrayed as victims and filesharers online as the ones who killed a benevolent organization. Either way, they win."


    They just declared war on us!!! Does it matter? In a war only one side can survive. The side which survives usually writes the history books, not the loser.

  • by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) <philsand@NoSpaM.ufl.edu> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:35PM (#6859968) Homepage
    And Caligula had such a long and prosperous reign.

    Oh, wait, no, he was assassinated by the entirety of the Praetorian Guard when they revolted.

    Maybe it's not a good idea to take political advice from him after all.
  • Re:Death to RIAA. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by letxa2000 ( 215841 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:37PM (#6859979)
    When they do go out of business they'll just cite piracy as the reason... Either way they'll be portrayed as victims and filesharers online as the ones who killed a benevolent organization. Either way, they win.

    No, if they go out of business they lose. I could care less what an expired, non-existant bankrupt recording industry cites as the reason for their demise. They can say whatever they want. If they no longer exist, they lost.

  • by HanzoSan ( 251665 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:38PM (#6859986) Homepage Journal


    You cannot scare a person into buying music, you can scare them into not listening to your music anymore, but hey if they dont listen to your music anymore they wont buy your music.

    So its a lose lose situation for the RIAA. They wont have any customers left to sell to. In the end their industry will die and be replaced by internet companies like Napster, Kazaa, Mp3.com, etc.
  • by WildBeast ( 189336 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:38PM (#6859987) Journal
    Well then I guess, how can you complain if you send non-encrypted emails and I read them? Afterall you're on a public network sending a non-encrypted email. How about I follow all your online activities? Does that bother you?
  • by rhombic ( 140326 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:38PM (#6859992)
    They could care less how much money they actually get from the student(s) they target. If they destroy a few kids' lives for uploading (not downloading), far more people will turn into leeches on the p2p networks. By increasing the number of leeches and simultaneously flooding the networks with false files, they're in effect causing a massive DOS on the p2p networks, making them far less useful than they had been. Their goal is to make it cost more (in terms of time and frustration) to download the song than it does to buy the album-- if you're making $10 an hour and it takes you more than 2 hours to download an album, then they've won.
  • by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:39PM (#6860006) Homepage Journal
    We should really charge you $150,000 per song you have downloaded.

    Ok, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone has been charged with a RIAA lawsuit on dowloading alone. Downloading digital music might be a legal activity under so many circumstances (you have a legal CD, the file is not copyrigthed, etc.)

    All of the RIAA lawsuits in the US are targeted towards file sharers, not downloaders, but uploaders, if you will.

    Why? Simple as it is, the companies belonging to RIAA are the sole entities allowed to distribute and license distribution of their music. The label has indeed a shallow argument if it tries to sue anyone for downloading, but sharing music with others is violation of this exact premise, and the law is clearly on RIAA's side in any country where the property laws are upheld.
  • by Effugas ( 2378 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:41PM (#6860024) Homepage
    He seems to be saying IP addresses aren't private, in the way credit card numbers and even telephone numbers are.

    Is he wrong?
  • Re:Sooo... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Awptimus Prime ( 695459 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:42PM (#6860053)

    Yeah, let the uprising begin.. I mean, nobody goes to Metallica concerts anymore, right?

    Last I heard, they were still selling-out stadiums across the country.

  • Re:Silly RIAA (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rhombic ( 140326 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:45PM (#6860072)
    The parent didn't say it was about artist's rights, just that it's not about money. More correctly, it's not about the settlement money. It's about running a few kids into bankruptcy (and hence about a decade of financial ruin) and getting those cases well publicized. Their hope is that this'll scare their peers into not sharing-- and when enough users stop sharing, the system breaks down.

    Of course, you have to question how their logic bridges the gap between stopping sharing and getting college students to each shell out $20 for all the CDs they want. It's pretty much the legendary step 2: ???
  • by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:45PM (#6860076) Journal
    This is why the RIAA calls her arguments (and those like them) "shallo" -- because they show no knowledge of how the law works, and scant common sense as well.

    When I sent an email, just as when I send a (snail mail if you will) letter to someone, I have the expectation of privacy. Tampering with mail is an offense. Intercepting email likewise is not acceptable.

    But were I to create a website...a PUBLIC website...and put messages to people on there, I would have no reason to complain if I left private information there that somehow got out.

    Likewise, when I'm sharing my files, WITH THE INTENT that other people both view and download them, when someone takes me up on that, I have no room to complain. This is very, VERY simple logic folks.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:48PM (#6860114)
    Excessive bail shall not be required, NOR EXCESSIVE FINES IMPOSED, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
  • by roze ( 592198 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:49PM (#6860128)
    Among other reasons: Part of the problem is how the RIAA has chosen to handle this situation. First: they are fining students--people who don't normally have any money to spare. Second: The amount that they are asking for -- if they started with smaller fines and proved to people that they have the ability to find out who is performing these illegal activities, I think fewer people would have an issue with them. People can own up that they did something wrong and have to face the consequences...but 15K or 50K is really an exhorbant amount to ask for.
  • by nedwidek ( 98930 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:50PM (#6860133)
    Ruled for just 4 years and murdered by two of his closest advisors.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:50PM (#6860144)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Tenebrious1 ( 530949 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:51PM (#6860149) Homepage
    Sorry, pal. You're a VP. I'm an engineer. I've had an email address since 1988, and I was using ed to write homework papers formatted with roff in 3rd grade on an ancient Unix system. You do not know how the Internet works.

    And apparently you don't either. By sharing files, she allowed the Kazaa to publish her location and the files available. By sharing files, she immediately removed the cloak of anonimity.

    That's how the "internet" works, and Oppenheim is correct, nycfashiongirl is mistaken if she though her nick would keep her anonymous.

    My MP3s sit behind a firewall. There's no link to those files on the internet, no way for the RIAA to find them without hacking through my firewall and into my system. If I share files with my friends through an encrypted VPN, there's no way for the RIAA to know I've shared those files. If the RIAA were snooping in on that VPN traffic, then yes, that would be illegal because there's no reasonable cause for the RIAA to be sniffing my private communications. That is what nycfashiongirl is trying to claim, and that is truly shallow. If you can't see the difference between the two examples, then you don't know how the internet works.

  • BBC bias (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:51PM (#6860151)
    Has anyone else noted that virtually all BBC coverage of this issue is almost completely one-sided (very pro-establishment). Hmm ... I don't suppose they have worries relating to protecting their own content??
  • Re:"Futile" (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gammoth ( 172021 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:52PM (#6860162)

    I couldn't agree more. When the framers of the constitution limited government's ability in search and seizure, I doubt very much they meant for private organizations to take up where the government had to leave off.

    Bypassing 'due process' by legislating the behaviour to private organizations is an abuse. Violating copyright is wrong, but it pales in comparison to the undermining of 'due process.'

    To understand the mindset of those opposed to 'due process', may I suggest "Les Miserables" by Victor Hugo. (Off-topic, but Kennith Starr and John Ashcroft need to familiarize themselves with this book.)

  • by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:53PM (#6860169) Homepage
    This isn't a fine that is being handed down by the government for a criminal offense; it is damages being awarded in a civil lawsuit. Thus, the burden of recovery of the money is on the plaintiff; not the government.
  • Re:Joy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by trompete ( 651953 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:53PM (#6860170) Homepage Journal
    You don't want a bankruptcy on your record for 7 years unless you plan on being completely liquid (cash/checks) or buying a car at 15% interest.
  • by DdJ ( 10790 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:53PM (#6860172) Homepage Journal
    Just who do these people at the RIAA think they are?
    Oh, I don't know, maybe just the people who actually own the intellectual property that's being routinely pirated...?

    My hope is that they succeed at this. My hope is that they manage to squash file sharing, and build up a huge amount of ill will from the public, and end up destroying the popularity of all the material that they own. In the best of all worlds they'll succeed at this until they drive themselves utterly out of business.

    Then we can start over.
  • No... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mrscott ( 548097 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:55PM (#6860185)
    That's not what they're saying and you know it. It's more like putting a kiosk up in a mall with your CD rack with a burner and blank CDs sitting next to it.
  • There both wrong. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekoid ( 135745 ) <dadinportland@yah o o .com> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:55PM (#6860189) Homepage Journal
    there both wrong.

    If someone fears you, they will do what you want, for a time. When they have nothing left to loose, they will come after you.

    If someone hates you, they will do what they can to get you.

    If someone loves you, they will stop at nothing to protect you. That includes looking the other way or making excuses for you.
  • by PollyJean ( 54795 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @12:57PM (#6860203)
    Oh, wait, no, he was assassinated by the entirety of the Praetorian Guard when they revolted.

    Not only that - they killed his wife and bashed his young daughter's head open.

    People will only put up with fear and hatred for so long. Then they tend to get angry.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:01PM (#6860240)
    So let's switch to Communist America, where no one is allowed to start their own business, no one is allowed to innovate, and the government has final say over everything you can legally read, hear and see. That would make sense.

  • Re:High Schools... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BJZQ8 ( 644168 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:01PM (#6860245) Homepage Journal
    Well I'm glad you can talk to me in a calm matter instead of flaming me like many other people would. I agree that if you are part of a large government organization that requires that kind of stuff, then by all means keep them. I had gotten the impression that you were keeping logs for the sole purpose of having something pretty to look at. I understand your point of view better now. I certainly don't work FOR the students, but I don't work AGAINST them either. I feel that allowing kids access to things like Kazaa, when not used for government subversion or something OVERTLY illegal (the illegality of downloading songs, many of which are public domain, has not been demonstrated to my satisfaction) is okay. When the kids start forming terror cells in the local playground, I will reconsider...(it's on the way!)
  • by Microlith ( 54737 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:04PM (#6860281)
    They're going after P2P because it's far wider reaching than Usenet, people who make CDs for friends, and yes even bootlegs.

    On Kazaa one person can reach many millions. Usenet isn't nearly as user friendly and bootlegs, well, when was the last time you saw a bootleg in a store that most people you know trafficked regularly (IE Wal-Mart?)

    They deserve control over works the RIAA member companies own. You have no right to take that.

    Certainly non-signed artists can do what they please, but you have no right to drag others along a path they may not want to venture down.

    And there's nothing that P2P that screams to me "valid distribution model." Every time I look on most any P2P service it's warezed music, movies, software, games and porn.

    A smart artist would put mp3s on their own website, where advertising is exclusive.
  • Re:Yes. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:05PM (#6860287)
    We're talking about illegally sharing MP3s. Anyone who thinks there's "terrorism" involved on either side (let alone "the biggest damn terrorists") is an imbecile.

    I had two friends murdered two years ago next week when some real terrorists crashed a plane full of civilians into their offices. "Terrorism" isn't just some magic word you sprinkle on anything you don't like.

  • Re:Death to RIAA. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Angostura ( 703910 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:07PM (#6860313)
    Your logic is, unfortunately predicated on belief that the RIAA's policy will trigger a large scale consumer backlash, an anti-record company jihad, if you like. Well, it may, but it may not. I suspect that the wider non-Slashdot-reading audience, the small-scale downloaders already feel uneasy about the morality of 'stealing music' they've done it because: (a) it has appeared to be a victimless crime (b) they have had a feeling of invunerability to capture. The RIAA's tactics are designed to eat away at both of these perceptions. I suspect that they will work well enough to make a goodly proportion of file-swappers more nervous and reduce activity on the networks. So far so good for the RIAA. I'm dubious about there being a widescale backlash, however I'm also very very dubious about any consequent increase in music sales. The RIAA believes that filesharing is the main culprit slowing industry sales, I think it is wrong. It needs to realise that the idea of packaging artists works into monolithic albums was an accident of format, and not something that its customers really want.
  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:08PM (#6860322) Homepage
    ..to get access to information they would otherwise not possess, through the DMCA.

    To take the classic car trunk analogy. In this case, the police officer would open the trunk for the RIAA, but not actually look into it himself. Would that be legal? If so, the 4th amendment is basicly worthless.

    Then you can simply create a force that is not officially a part of the government, but that would be able to inspect your trunk at whim and report whatever they find to the legal system (or worse). But it's still government force that facilitates this.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the 4th Amendment should apply to a DMCA invocation like this. Whether that stamp from a judge's clerk is sufficient to be allowed under 4th amendment is a more complex problem, but the amendment itself applies. IANAL, but that's how I read it at least...

    Kjella
  • Re:shallow? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TClevenger ( 252206 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:08PM (#6860324)
    By your logic, if your television got stolen, or if your television was "so scratched up as to be" unviewable, then you would steal another television because you don't want to pay a "tax" on something you already own.

    Actually, according to the CD insert, I've purchased a license to use the works on the CD. Therefore, as long as I retain the CD insert, I'm free to redownload and reburn the works provided.

    Doesn't matter anymore anyway, as I have encoded all of my music CD's and store the originals on a spindle where they can't get damaged or stolen. But I still am owed several CD's that I still have the inserts for, but the CD's have gone damaged or missing. I have the license to use the music, so I can either download, copy from a friend or pay the RIAA to send me another CD and duplicate license. Guess which one I won't be choosing.

  • Re:Yes. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sTalking_Goat ( 670565 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:09PM (#6860328) Homepage
    "Terrorism" isn't just some magic word you sprinkle on anything you don't like.

    Tell that to John fucking Ashcroft.

  • Re:Death to RIAA. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by og_sh0x ( 520297 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:09PM (#6860332) Homepage
    Hey! If you want to buy music but don't want to give the RIAA any money, go to one of those used CD stores. The RIAA hates them more than they hate you, because RIAA can't do anything about them... They're 100% legal! As an added bonus, you don't have to feel the slightest bit guilty or worry at all about being sent to a federal, p2p-me-in-the-ass prison.
  • Not quite correct. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MickLinux ( 579158 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:09PM (#6860335) Journal
    They are not doing this because P2P is an alternative distribution model that threatens their business. If that were all there were to it, they'd probably quickly change business models, and be done with it.

    Rather, our system of law has set up a structure for their sales, and they were following it. Yes, the structure, known as copyright, is flawed, but it is the structure that they, as a legal business entity, have to deal with.

    Now, P2P is not following the law. They are breaking the law. (rewind) Bzzewwwpt (Vol up) THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW (Vol down). So the RIAA is going after them in the only way that they can.

    Now, if you want to bring in a better business model, which is legal, then please go ahead and do so.

    BTW, I've posted in my journal under "Public Domain", one idea on how to do just that. Since I did PD it, you can use it, without paying me anything.
  • by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:12PM (#6860358) Homepage Journal
    from the article:

    Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.

    so, because i'm not linked to law enforcement does that mean i'm immune from rules on searching the internet... say for some rolling stones songs?

  • by mike77 ( 519751 ) <mraley77NO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:13PM (#6860365)
    But not for corperations. People are free to not buy you products. They don't buy your stuff, you don't make money. You don't make money, you go out of bussiness.

    Unfortunately, in the united corporations of america, all you have to do is go to your local congresscritter, tell them, we're losing money becuasse people are downloading songs instead of buying them, and they prop up your failing business model.

    you've heard of subsidies for farmers? welcome to the world of subsidies for failing corporations

  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:13PM (#6860369)
    $150,000 per file is NOT a fair punishment for the crime, espicaly given the non-injury of it. It would be perfectly reasonable to complain if the cops said "we're going to set up a speed trap here" and then had an M60 gunner killing anyone who sped in that zone. When someone infringes on copyright in this manner, it causes no one (the labels included) any serious harm. It is therefore totally unreasonable and unjust to demand fines like this.

    We not only have a concpet of fair punishments in the US... IT'S IN THE DAMN CONSTITUTION.

    Amendment VIII

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
  • No, it won't... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drakaan ( 688386 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:18PM (#6860423) Homepage Journal
    The main problem about these discussions (and I'm as guilty in this as any other slashdotter) is that we get so caught up in being (rightfully) pissed at the price-gouging bee-atches at the RIAA, that we forget that most people don't do the following:

    a) read slashdot and have the benefit of all this occasionally thoughtful discussion

    b)think about much other than "DAMN!!! Christina Aguilera is HOT!"

    (feel free to substitute the pop idol of your choice in b. above...christina does it for me, personally)

    That said, there appears to be a market for overpriced CD's. Probably not as much of a market as there once was, but a market nonetheless.

    In my personal perfect world, I'd hope for the following: If they knocked, say, $5.00 off the price of the average CD (make 'em an even $10.00 and I'd be happy) and went to a higher-quality, more data-hungry format, they might accomplish something.

    They'd make average consumers happy on price, and audiophiles happy on quality, while making it more of a pain in the ass to download your favorite song in all of its nice, high-quality, multichannel, holographic, blah, features, glory.

    They're not doing that now, which is irritating a lot of people, but that doesn't mean they're not making plenty of money, just that they're not making as much as they'd like. Don't count on the RIAA going away while there's a commercial radio station in your neighborhood that plays top 40 "hits".

  • by TopShelf ( 92521 ) * on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:20PM (#6860445) Homepage Journal
    While I might equate the severity of the crime with speeding, the severity of the punishment that's currently being meted out is hugely excessive. To extend your analogy, people would be (justifiably) upset if they got pulled over for doing 90 and were fined $150,000...
  • Re:Pushing a rope (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:22PM (#6860465)
    Their whole business model revolves not around creating a quality product, but creating a slightly different product and brainwashing the consumers to buy it.

    Actually, it revolves around creating a small number of widely marketable products. It's a lot more profitable for them to sell 10 million Britney Spears CDs than it is to sell 10,000 CDs each from 1,000 different artists. So that's what they do, they create a product they think the most people will buy, they market the hell out of it, sell 10 millions of them, then move on to the next one. It's more efficient that way.
  • by jpmorgan ( 517966 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:24PM (#6860481) Homepage
    A civil court is not a credit card company. There are a number of things a judge could do to you if you refused to pay, including garnashing your paycheque and any capital gains for the rest of your life, or until you pay off your debt, whichever comes first.
  • by BLAMM! ( 301082 ) <ralamm@gmAUDENail.com minus poet> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:28PM (#6860522)
    Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.

    So if you aren't affiliated with a law enforcement agency, you can do whatever you want online? Seems to me they could be charged with a real crime then. What's the on-line equivilant of being peeping tom?

    Reminds me of the story (urban ledgend?) about the lawyer who insured his cigars, smoked them, and won the insurance claim in court because the contract didn't specify what kind of fire. Then the dumb bastard was charged with multiple counts of arson and fined 10x what he got from the insurance.

    You're never as smart as you think you are.
  • Re:Death to RIAA. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Red Pointy Tail ( 127601 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:29PM (#6860531)
    Hey, why don't someone set up a CD exchange facility? We can all swap CDs, and of course, relinquish all rights to what we had previous owned, and of course swear that we didn't make a copy of it first? ;)
  • by SlamMan ( 221834 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:29PM (#6860545)
    Being loved it good But its damn hard to get most people to love you for a while, and impossible to keep it up. Fear lasts a damn long time, and bullets and lawyers are cheap.
  • by lobsterGun ( 415085 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:47PM (#6860714)
    Here's what they will do.

    Step 1: win in court. you owe them $15000

    Step 2: you decide not to pay.

    Step 3: they send you a threatening letter.

    Step 4: you ignore it.

    Step 5: they hire a collection agency that gets to keep half of what they connect.

    Step 6: they ruin your credit. They send you letter after letter. They call you every day, sometimes multiple times a day. Sometimes they call you at work.

    Step 7: you ignore them

    Step 8: you grow up and decide to get married/buy a house. But you can't because your credit has been destroyed.

    Step 9: you call them and agree to settle. You pay the fine, but only at a few cents on the dollar, so instead of $15000 you only pay $4000.

    Step 10: they annotate your credit report to indicate that you paid up. Your credit still sucks, but you can now get on with your life (but with high risk interest rates).
  • Re:shallow? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sgt York ( 591446 ) <jvolm@NOSPAm.earthlink.net> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @01:49PM (#6860731)
    I love that they call it shallow, it just adds to the humor of the situation (well, it would be funny if it weren't so damn scary). There is a quote next to the article:

    Many students seem to think, apparently, that the internet is a law free zone

    Followed at the end by:

    Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.

    Immune to the law? Who sees the internet as a "law-free zone"?

    This could fall under the same category as evidence gatherd by a PI. However, in the case of the RIAA, it's like the PI gathering the information and then bringing charges himself. IANAL, but the way I understand it, the spirit of illegal search & seizure was to ensure that those that enforced the law could not search citizens at will; searches must be approved by a higher authority. I guess applying that to what is posted on a public server is a different story, though...

    I dunno, it just seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

  • Re:Joy (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @02:38PM (#6861248)
    You wouldn't leave them with nothing - you'd leave them with a nice victory and cautionary tale. They're not doing this for your money - they're doing it to make an example of you.

    The only thing you can do is stop buying (or otherwise obtaining) their music. If their revenue drops far enough they can't hire lawyers and lobbyists. Yes, this is patently absurd and will never work, but that's the extent of your power in a "free market" system - the $20 you can choose to drop or not. Really, "vote with your dollars" is code for "you have no say in this". And it's all you've got.
  • by mabu ( 178417 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @02:45PM (#6861331)
    There are obviously bands out that allow taping of their shows and release royalty-free music. I'm curious if there are any web sites that specialize in distributing high-quality versions of songs that are free of the copyright issues?

    I think a very effective backlash against the RIAA would be to support sites and artists who make their songs available without the restrictions. I firmly believe that free trade of music in many cases is more beneficial to the artists than otherwise. This is especially true in times such as now where big corporations own a lion's share of media.

    If you look at a band like the Grateful Dead, who chose not to follow the path of rabid control over their publishing, that looks to be a major contributor to their success.

    Most people are sympathetic to the artists, but not the corporate entities which end up getting most of the money and taking advantage of the artists.

    If we all rally around sites, companies and artists who abandon the traditional extreme proprietary nature of their material, this would send a clear message to the RIAA that their acts will hurt them more than us, and we could care less about the next major-label-boy-band.
  • Re:Joy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by 3terrabyte ( 693824 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:13PM (#6861628) Journal
    I always thought the the ludicrous range of $750 to $150,000 per infringement was originally based in criminal activity. You know, the old fashioned, commercial bootlegging millions of pirated CD's.

    Now that we've blurred the lines with the NET ACT (trading for other copyrighted works = 'for profit) and civil suits vs. criminal suits, I can't believe the price range isn't lower.

    As far as number of copies goes. I imagine the RIAA thinks that the one song 1 person downloaded from you then gets downloaded by 10 people, which then gets downloaded by 10X , etc, and will say 1 million copies are your fault. But in all actuality, you shouldn't be liable for OTHER people's illegal distribution too! Anyway, that is just my thought. I figured it was 10 to 20 times the actual cost (about $20 per song) but no matter how much math I do, I don't get to $750, let alone 150K.

    (By the way, the $20 per song is from an actual article I read where they were trying to define how you could fall under a felony -- something like over $2000 worth of theft becomes a felony. Why oh why does the RIAA get away with their own math?)

  • Re:Joy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by d34thm0nk3y ( 653414 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:32PM (#6861818)
    there is a penalty??? I dunno... it kind of looks like the RIAA and SCO are going to get away with it...
  • by Peaceful_Patriot ( 658116 ) <michelleNO@SPAMgoldnuggetwebs.com> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:34PM (#6861835) Homepage
    "Furthermore, in one recent case, a college student was told that just by filing an answer in court, the cost of any final settlement would rise by $50,000."

    This is perhaps the most disturbing quote for me. Translated: "If you dispute this in any way, it will cost you another $50,000.00."

    Who could afford to fight this, even if you were innocent?
  • Re:How to fix this (Score:2, Insightful)

    by txtracer ( 191320 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @04:59PM (#6862800) Homepage
    One tiny problem. The independent music I've heard so far is all garage-band crap. There's nothing to compare with Seal, or Juno Reactor, or Pink Floyd. The Doors, Styx, and The Police aren't releasing their material on independent labels.

    Independent music is still the minor leagues. I don't want to pay money for it.
  • by mike77 ( 519751 ) <mraley77NO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @05:09PM (#6862928)
    you have a point about people making illegal copies and getting their product for nothing, but...

    1) The recording companies have been convicted of pricefixing and keeping the cost of cd's inflated.
    2) Their numbers are suspect at best. I can't remember where it is, but I've read several reports that shows similar declines in "sales numbers" for other industries since the bottom fell out of the economy.
    3) Mp3's are not perfect copies. They're pretty good, but not perfect.
    4) Many people use file trading services to determine if an album is any good before they go buy it.
    5) Many customers only want the music, not the CDs (I myself fall into this category) and until recently (iTunes) there have been no good online music content providers.
    6) Why do consumers have to pay a tax on CD-Rs, to "combat online piracy", when they may use the media for anytything, not necessarily on burning copies of illegally downlaoded songs?

    My point being there are always going to be pirates, Always, but they are not doing themselves any good with the methods they have chosen to combat it. They're in the digital age, they need to figure that out, and give theit customers what they (the customers) want, and not try to shove what they want us to have down our throats.
    \end rant


    did I make any sense, or am i still suffering from lack of caffienation?

I find you lack of faith in the forth dithturbing. - Darse ("Darth") Vader

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