Amazon's Patent-Pending Price Checks 129
theodp writes "On Thursday, the USPTO revealed that Amazon is back at the patent trough, this time for a System and method for obtaining information relating to an item of commerce using a portable imaging device. Sounds an awful lot like ScoutPal, which drew raves from Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, doesn't it?"
Say Cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
So... they took a picture?
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:3, Insightful)
No, they used an imaging barcode scanner. Not that you'd see a device like this hanging on a post at your local grocery store or anything, oh, no, they wouldn't have been doing that, violating this patent for the LAST FIFTEEN YEARS!!!
Oh, wait. The patent is only two years old? Never mind, I must be confused.
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:4, Interesting)
Using an "imaging device" on a handheld PDA to comparison shop for prices is sooooo last millenia. We tested several of them for a "comparison shopping" project (going into a competitor's stores with handhelds and comparing their prices against ours.) We found that the other stores tended to kick out people who were running around scanning merchandise.
Also, plenty of stores have a "no cameras" policy posted right at the entrance. Forethought ... or defense against PRIOR ART?
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:1)
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:2)
And, if not, can I now say, "FIRST ART"?
BTW, from my scanning of barcodes on DVDs into Delicious Library, sometimes the same title can be given different barcodes for different vendors. Most of my Highlander TV series DVDs were bought at Best Buy and don't match the barcodes on record at Am
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:2)
You might be able to say "hey, they got the idea from my /. post" but if you don't have a working device to show them, well, I don't know.
IANAPA, IANAL, IAJAF/.R
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:1)
TESTIFY!!
Re:Say Cheese! (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, from the patent's abstract, that doesn't seem far off the mark.
It's hard to find a vast difference between Amazon's method and one of those grocery-checkouts where you wield the scanner yourself. The main departure might be that, at the grocery store, you usually already know what you're buying (...though the display tells you anyway). Seems Amazon has "invented" the circumstance where you usually don't know...
Next thing... (Score:1, Funny)
The next thing you know, Slashdot will patent "the reporting of stories about patents no one cares to hear about on their front page".
Re:Next thing... (Score:1, Funny)
Yeah, but they will just annoy the patent office as they will have filed for the exact same patent with a slightly different summary a day or two before.
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:2)
Re:Next thing... (Score:2)
TWO FUCKING DAYS. Don't you jerks ever give it a fucking rest!?
I shouldn't have removed my rant against such shit so soon. I thought that craze was over. Apparently not.
Prior art (Score:3, Interesting)
Ummm.. read the patent. (Score:1)
Re:Ummm.. read the patent. (Score:2, Informative)
Did Amazon's lawyers even bother to look at the prior art here?
http://www.neom.com/ [neom.com]Neomedia Technologies has just about every patent you could think of related to taking pictures of bar codes and getting information sent back to your phone.
Their http://paperclick.com/demo.jsp [paperclick.com]Paperclick demo shows just a fraction of what they've got patented.
They enforce their patents too. In the past few months both http://www.neom.com/press_releases/2005/20050629.j sp [neom.com]Virgin and http://www.neom.com/press_releases [neom.com]
Re:Ummm.. read the patent. (Score:2)
At least people won't be inclined to modify their free Radio Shack cell phones to just take pictures without sending the barcodes to paperclip. I think.
Re:Ummm.. read the patent. (Score:2)
The applications reach as far as your imagination: price comparison shopping in a retail shop
Amazon could have lifted that straight from their web page and placed it in their patent claim. However, it's always a question of "who got there first." Since Amazon filed their patent application in 2003, and neomedia filed theirs in 2004 [uspto.gov], neomedia might not be in the driver's seat any more. Hmm...neomedia's patent refers to a previous pate
CASHIER: "Price check on tomato soup!" (Score:3, Funny)
Amazon.com stormtroopers burst from the ceiling tiles and decapitate our poor hero.
More specifically... (Score:2, Funny)
Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:3, Insightful)
It is in the practical examples and application of the descriptions that make "prior art." With sufficiently trained researchers (and sufficient numbers of said people... or bots??!!?) these types of applications and patents will be minimised at the door, and eventually even less will be brought in since it will be known that thorough checking will be done.
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree with darealpat - I wonder how much of the search for "prior art" involves string matching...
$result = query( "select * from patents where patent_text like '%portable imaging device to capture an image of identifying data%'");
num_rows($result)==0? issue_patent() : issue_lawsuit();
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:2)
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:1)
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:2)
Begging your pardon, but that is how I think. But obviously there are those who disagree with our lines of thinking. Otherwise this patent would never have been filed.
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:2)
How many years ago did someone write a program that would allow you to scan an in-store product using a free CueCat barcode reader attached to your laptop and query Google about it? I wish I could find that link now.
Re:Another example of the overworked Patent Office (Score:2)
Re:And once again.... (Score:2)
I keep what's in my pockets from contributing anything to what's in their pockets. I have yet to purchase a single item from Amazon. I don't care about the alleged convenience, because I can usually find what I need for for about the same price or less somewhere else anyway.
Important difference (Score:5, Insightful)
You can send in an application for "...a method of wiping your arse comprising the step of utilizing paper in a back and forth rubbing motion" and that application would also be published.
Re:Important difference (Score:2)
If we're talking about the patent office, yes that difference matters.
If we're talking about Amazon (which we are) it makes zero difference. From a morality and ethics point of view, applying for and getting something so absurd is the exact same as applying for it and not getting it.
Next week's Amazon patent - combining 'letters' to form 'words', except phrased in a confusing manner so as to confuse the IQ-of-30 grunt
Re:Important difference (Score:2)
Re:Important difference (Score:3, Insightful)
You can send in an application for "...a method of wiping your arse comprising the step of utilizing paper in a back and forth rubbing motion" and that application would also be published.
The difference being that if you're Jeff Bezos, you have the money to resubmit it ten times. Eventually you'll get the one disgruntled guy who just wants to go home early and signs whatever is on his desk.
And don't tell me it never happens that way, because it does. [oreilly.com]
Re:Important difference (Score:1)
Re:Important difference (Score:2, Interesting)
Specifically, do we know who rejected it and what company he works at now?
Re:Important difference (Score:2)
You can send in an application for "...a method of wiping your arse comprising the step of utilizing paper in a back and forth rubbing motion" and that application would also be published.
And today's USPTO would probably grant that patent, as long as the applicant was from a large enough corporation...
Ask and ye shall receive (Score:1)
Re:Important difference (Score:1, Funny)
One up, one down and one to polish?
Re:Important difference (Score:1)
Re:Important difference (Score:2, Funny)
We'll let the lawyers decide if that infringes on my uni-directional method, patented in 1994.
Sounds like a cool technology (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems like the logical evolution of systems like Froogle. Only this one would be much more personal and probably more local, not to mention tied to brick and mortar storefronts rather than online storefronts.
It does seem awfully like the thing mentioned in the news article for finding used book prices, though. Someone ought to look into that.
Re:Sounds like a cool technology (Score:2)
check out what bad things Amazon has been up to! (Score:2, Interesting)
http://malfeasance.50megs.com/ [50megs.com]
Uh-oh! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uh-oh! (Score:1)
Sorry (Score:2, Interesting)
Some well-funded players have an interest in just outright owning everything [www.cbc.ca]. I think they would very much like for us all to get tired of hearing about it.
Notice Board (Score:1)
"Mobiles With Bar Code Scanners Not Allowed"
Re:Notice Board (Score:1)
Technology can be used to empower the consumer, or it can be used to empower the vendor. This one seems to help shift the balance back towards the consumer. I think that's a pretty good balance of power.
Re:Notice Board (Score:3, Insightful)
So, kicking the shopper (not customer) out of the store is fine - they were not going to buy anything anyway. Not when they find out that the same article is 20% less down the street at Wal-Mart. More information does not equal an empowered consumer. It just pushes
Re:Notice Board (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Notice Board (Score:2)
Some have been from competing stores, others people looking around for bargains.
Re:Notice Board (Score:1)
Amazon is patenting that because of the emergence of megapixel phone camera. As for prior, I know of at least 1 developer who tried to implement just that for the phone I use. But the camera on the phone is not good enough, you need a magnifying glass between the lense
Next Slashdot Headline: (Score:1)
Re:Next Slashdot Headline: (Score:2)
Soviet Russia Patents You
Read the claims not the title (Score:3, Insightful)
I also note it is pending, so any criticism of the USPTO should be withheld until it is granted and it can be determined what prior art was considered in examination and what scope of protection (if any) has been granted.
Cue Cat anyone? (Score:3, Funny)
C:ue: C:a:t
Or something???
Re:Cue Cat anyone? (Score:2)
Shopping cart (Score:2)
Oh, I see, Amazon.com is just expecting the patent reform to go through, which makes prior art not relevant, but which just works on a first come, first served basis.
4 step pla to get quick rich in new patent system:
1. Wait in front of patent office on Amazon.com lawyer
2. Steal suitcase with patents from lawyer
3. Submit Amazon patents as own patents
4. Sue Amazon=> profit!
Re:Shopping cart (Score:2)
Please, stop this FUD. The proposed patent reform, which has been addressed several times already on slashdot, does not eliminate the need to prove originality. Prior art will still invalidate a patent.
Re:Shopping cart (Score:1)
Re:Shopping cart (Score:2)
How does going from "First to Invent" to "First to File" not invalidate prior art? Isn't prior art the defense of saying "Hey, you can't patent that! I invented it first?"
there must be prior art (Score:2, Insightful)
So the whole patent boils down to the idea of doing it. There is IMO no technical
this might actually be non obvious for a change (Score:2, Informative)
Re:this might actually be non obvious for a change (Score:1)
It wasn't obvious to you, but I think it was pretty obvious to just about anybody who's ever written software for a retail environment.
Re:this might actually be non obvious for a change (Score:1)
Its definitely non obvious (Score:1)
ludicrous! (Score:1)
that's what Amazon probably wants to do (Score:1)
IMO this is unfair business against the local store. Granted, some customers do that anyway, but in my eyes it's bad business manners on the side of Amazon to promote such behaviour. I hope someone "invents" a browser extension that allows users to browse through Amazon's website, read the recommendations, reviews a
Re:that's what Amazon probably wants to do (Score:2, Informative)
BookFinder4u [bookfinder4u.com]
You should write up your idea and submit it to the US patent office.
Re:that's what Amazon probably wants to do (Score:2)
It's a pretty cool tool.
Re:that's what Amazon probably wants to do (Score:1)
Book searching sites like bookfinder4u are not the same kind of beast; in fact, Amazon wants such sites to consider Amazon's stock of book and offer an API for querying their database. A friend of mine made such a system for the Austrian and German market; because it receives a lot of hits, book stores even put effort into making their answers to the seach enigne's requests faster (because the faster the answer, the better the ranking)
Re:that's what Amazon probably wants to do (Score:2)
Its a good idea and past due.
Maker to consumer. That's what the Internet is about. Not fat cats in the middle. Chinese junk is marked up 6x in WMT and other places. If ever we solve the shipping logistics and taxing logistics then the price can drop precipitously towards the Chin
Prior Art (Score:2, Informative)
Link (Score:1)
They both look like potential prior art (Score:1)
waste of money (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, let them waste their money: that patent is worthless. It's a testament to technological incompetence at Amazon. It is also something that will become a generic features of cell phones anyway.
Yes, the patent would be a pain to defeat against in court if it ever came to that. But the prior art is clear; in fact, it's better than one-click: one-click was so trivial that nobody had bothered writing it up academically, but this application has been published multiple times.
Zero Click Ordering (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Zero Click Ordering (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Zero Click Ordering (Score:1)
I haven't ordered from Amazon in years, and I actively discourage my friends and family from using them.
Between Bezos' vehement anti-union stance and the patent nonsense, combined with the fact that a very cool local bookstore is closing at the end of the month, I say: fsck 'em.
re: the anti-union stance. Let's see: Bezos' claim is that "Amazon.com is the 'new' economy and the old rules don't apply." To which I s
Land of the lost? (Score:5, Insightful)
I really honestly cant see how a patent system like this can help the US in the long run. The incentive to produce is substantially lowered and replaced with people who just litigate and patents obvious ideas. Theese people dont contribute a dime to the community since all the money they touch is fictional for a fictional service in a highly abstract market.
Re:Land of the lost? (Score:3, Informative)
For one, in order to patent an object, you have to document how to create it. In the words of current law, an expert in the field should be able to recreate your invention without undue experimentation.
And another, patents only last 20 years, so patenting an invention that will not be around for 50
The Eyes Have It! (Score:2, Funny)
So now if you want to browse around a store with those portable imaging devices in your head you will have to pay Amazon for the priviledge!
What next? An organic pump like system for circulating a nutrient and oxygen transpoting liquid in a living organism
How is this different?? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:How is this different?? (Score:2)
OK, so in this one Slashdot article, people have identified at least three prior art patent applications floating around. Will the real patent holder please stand up so we can mock you the least?
If Jeff Bezos was Victor Kiam (Score:3, Funny)
There are tons of prior art on this (Score:1)
Patentsquatting (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Broken by Denso's QR code (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Broken by Denso's QR code (Score:2)
It has been so long now that I cannot recall what the MB's per sheet would have been. At the time I personally had a 40 MB HDD and that was feasible to back u
symbol trumps both (Score:2, Informative)
Sheesh... (Score:1)
What, they patented taking pictures of stuff that's for sale?
I guess eBay is sunk, now.
Amazon? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Amazon? Yep! (Score:2)
Re:Amazon? Yep! (Score:2)
How can you patent something with a NDA, to promote the progress of science and useful arts?
the very essence and nature of software .... (Score:2)
This isn't a statement of opinion, but proveable fact.
And it says a lot about those involved...
Will NeoMedia Sue Amazon? (Score:2)
So what's new? Here's what (Score:2)
So what's new? Here's what (Score:2)
So Amazon patented a phonecam scanning a barcode. (Score:2)
Re:Boycott Amazon (Score:2, Funny)