SunnComm Reconsiders Lawsuit Threat 258
The Importance of writes "SunnComm, which yesterday had threatened to sue Alex Halderman for writing a report critical of SunnComm's MediaMax CD3 DRM technology, has now backed off that threat. 'I don't want to be the guy that creates any kind of chilling effect on research,' SunnComm's CEO Peter Jacobs said."
Haha, nice save! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Haha, nice save! (Score:2)
Re:Haha, nice save! (Score:2)
He'd be suing SC for trying to use the civil courts as a form of censorship, bankrupting anyone who dares speak out against a corporation.
What you said is basically "We shouldn't jail kidnappers, we'd sink to their level." I call BS. They attack innocents, you protect innocents.
I don't know what's scarier: (Score:5, Insightful)
"I don't want to be the guy that creates any kind of chilling effect on research," Jacobs said.
If I may submit an idea, sir, if you really want to avoid chilling effects on research through this law, perhaps you could bring the challenge to court anyway, and then lose. That would set a precident.
Hell, you wouldn't even have to get a good lawyer. In fact the worse a lawyer you get, the more benficial it'll be in the long run. Think it over?
GMFTatsujin
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
Could mismanagement (ie: wasting millions on crap DRM like this) be as much or more to blame for the RIAA's woes as P2P?
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
Harsh DRM is destined to fail. Not for the fact that it's badly engineered, but for the fact that people don't like to be told what to do.
Telling people to not to do something makes them want to. Trying to take away their ability to makes them mad, and try even harder.
The reason harsh (as opposed to all DRM) will fail, is that the harder companies try and destroy consumer rights (and yes, I do believe that th
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
I felt kinda bad for SunnComm when I heard about this. They tried so hard to develop an undefeatable DRM system, and the company that tested it for them verified that it was impervious to any sort of attack.
When it got released into the wild, half the world would never notice that the DRM ever existed, and the other half can disable it by holding down one key.
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
If you say no, and they still won't let you access the CD, couldn't you sue them, because they didn't have authorization to do that to your PC?
Re:I don't know what's scarier: (Score:2)
I was confused by the article on whether or not he'd accepted the EULA and how he knew about the DLL installation if he hadn't.
What he says is that the
Public Suicide (Score:3, Interesting)
More Likely... (Score:2)
See, if they just said "Yeah, we were high on crack at the time" then the public could just go "Oohhh," nod knowingly and get on with things. I notice that there's a lot of crack flowing in corporate America these days...
I think his quote read more like... (Score:3, Interesting)
Still, would've been fun to see a judge laugh their case out the courtroom.
I read it like this... (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to work out that:
a) the "protection" mechanism was going to be easy to circumvent; and
b) once the circumvention was common knowledge, the "protection" mechanism was going to be useless.
Now if the circumvention method involved something a little more difficult than pressing one single key (or disabling autorun) then he might have something to go to court about
Re:I think his quote read more like... (Score:2)
Students, researchers, geeks and what army?
I'm disappointed.. .sorta (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, I'm glad the kid isn't going to get shafted by this.
Re:I'm disappointed.. .sorta (Score:2)
Re:I'm disappointed.. .sorta (Score:3, Insightful)
Well then... (Score:2)
One 180 by music industry idiots deserves another...
Check out the shifty guy's advisor.. (Score:2, Interesting)
"Halderman's graduate advisor at Princeton is Ed Felten, a computer science professor who once sued the Recording Industry Association of America in a challenge to the constitutionality of the DMCA. The RIAA had threatened action under the DMCA against Felten and colleagues after they said they would publish a paper disclosing flaws in an industry security initiative. That suit w
What a joke (Score:2)
Heh (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Heh (Score:2)
If by "simple words" you mean "vociferous laughter", you're probably right.
Lawyer: Wait, let me get this straight... you want to sue him for WHAT?
Bullshit-to-English Translation (Score:2)
"I don't want to be the guy that gets blamed for getting the DMCA either thrown out in court or repealed."
Re:Bullshit-to-English Translation (Score:2)
Truly disappointing (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not gonna hit ya (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, hey, look at that - you're doing something I don't like.
You know, I could hit you with this baseball bat. You deserve it, you know, for saying that my security of the plant doesn't work too well since I leave the backdoor unlocked and unprotected.
But I won't. No, I'm just walking here in front of you, slappin' this bat against my palm - but I'm not really going to hit you with it for saying that people could just walk into the back of the store because my level of "protection" really just involves scaring away the local kids.
You did a study on my security system so people could make an informed choice about either using me, or saving the money by not having me walk up and down the sidewalk glaring at people? You know, you intellectual types are the reason why people steal things in the first place, and why my security techniques don't work on folks.
I should hit you with this bat. I still might - but I'm not.
-- SunComm
Stop sarcasm here.
Look, SunComm, you're solution you peddled to the music folks is just not secure. You know it, we know it - you're just pissed that your customers, who you thought were a bunch of luddite rubes, now know it. Granted, your customers should realize that there are other ways to ensure profit (lowering prices, giving less restrictive online purchasing options like those seen by the iTunes store, the MusicMatch store, and growing others) - but as far as your business is concerned, it's a wash.
Now we can all get on with our lives.
somebody should hit these people. really. (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, can someone explain just why SunComm thought it was a good idea to threaten litigation, but then back off, effectively publicizing the Shift thing even more for the two people who hadn't heard about it already? What kind of battle cry is "hey, we're taking you to court because you proved we're incompetent tools...oh, wait, we meant all of that except for the court thing!"? I don't care quit
Re:somebody should hit these people. really. (Score:2)
Because if it went to court, it could be damaging to the DMCA. The threat of litigation can be as, if not more, effective than actual litigation to get people to do what you want them to, especially with the provisions in the DMCA which make the penalties much worse if you don't stop doing it when asked to.
To use the parent comment's analogy, they don't have to swing the bat, just threaten to.
Re:I'm not gonna hit ya (Score:2)
SunnComm's customers are a bunch of luddite rubes. I believe so. Nothing you said in your post disproves this.
You can in fact be a luddite rube and still discover after it is too late that the magic snake oil you bought doesn't perform as promised. The snake oil vendor can indeed be pissed, as you say, when customer find's out. But all of this can apply to a luddite customer. In fact, I would say that finding out after it is too
What a boner (Score:2)
I take it back... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I take it back... (Score:2)
Too late (Score:2)
Too late. You're in the DRM business, so you're already the scum your parents warned you about.
Translation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Translation (Score:2)
Gotta love the cluelessness. New CEO anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
The saddest part is that they acknowledge this will only deter casual copying, i.e., fair-use. The real CD pirates (the ones selling pirated CDs) will just laugh, and no matter what system they use, it will get uploaded to Kazaa (people ripped their old 45s and put them up on Napster for crying out loud). So we have a system which prevents "honest" customers from listening to their music on their iPod, does nada to prevent uploading to Kazaa, and less than nothing to stop CD pirates.
Will somebody please give these guys a giant dope-slap to the back of their heads?
Gotta love the cluelessness. JAILTIME for CEO? (Score:2)
First SunnComm to sue 'Shift key' student for $10m [theregister.co.uk] and then they change their minds [dailyprincetonian.com] so as not to stifle research, but who is really the guilty party?
Has anyone determined whether it is in fact legal for SunnComm to install a device driver without asking or making the user aware that that is what will happen?
In the UK, this appears to be completely illegal [hmso.gov.uk]:
Re:Gotta love the cluelessness. JAILTIME for CEO? (Score:2)
There will probably be some fine print somewhere on the CD stating that by playing this CD in your computer, you agree to the terms, which may include installing special software on your computer to protect your digital rights. So it's not unauthorized, because by using the contents of this software you agree to be bound by the terms of the license.
Part of the strategy is that most people won't bother to read the fine print
Re:Gotta love the cluelessness. JAILTIME for CEO? (Score:2)
Sam
Re:Gotta love the cluelessness. New CEO anyone? (Score:2)
If anybody removes the tape to open the jewel case with the intent to copy the CD, I'll sue them.
And don't reply to me with any confounded ideas about how to remove sticky tape from jewel cases or I'll sue you too.
That ought to be worth at least -- one million dollars.
Re:Gotta love the cluelessness. New CEO anyone? (Score:2)
As for Jacobs, maybe he should learn a bit more about his technology so that he can realize it's brain dead. Most of my windows systems have autorun disabled for security reasons. Automatically trying to run stuff on ANY inserted CD is not always a good idea.
The problem with this whole mess (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is the value for the producers of those DVDs and CDs? All it takes is a single MP3 to be leaked and all the copy protection on the CDs out there is useless. Back in the Napster days I ripped a fairly obscure song and made it available. Even today I can search DC Hubs or Kazaa and find my MP3 all over the place. Copy protection will only ever work if it prevents 100% of copying...which it never will.
My advice to RIAA and MPAA member companies: just drop the whole notion of DRM on your products. Trust your customers, give them what they want, treat them with respect. Most of us won't screw you...honest!
All DRM does is punish the honest user, spawn bizarre laws like the DMCA, and make a fun target for the release groups to crack.
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
If they didn't play it for long it might not be worth cracking
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
When hell freezes over.
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
just my two cents...
This is not a new discovery (Score:2)
It has been known for a long time (mid-80s, probably) that copy protecting software is expensive, ineffective, and alienating. That's why there's hardly any of it around. Oh, sure, every now and then, someone gets a bee in their bonnet and decides they're going to try something new and stupid (XP/TurboTax/etc. Activation, anyone?) (or even old and stupid -- your story is a case in point), but all in all, the software industry's known this for a long time.
Too bad the mu
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
Re:The problem with this whole mess (Score:2)
Yes, and Microsoft probably will. That's what Palladium (or whatever Microsoft is calling it this week) is all about.
I don't know what Microsoft will name that
Seriously, the more Microsoft talks about
Don't sue someone bigger than you (Score:2)
SCO Sucks T-shirt [anti-tshirts.com]. Shirts donate to the Open Source Now Fund.
You can thank me for this : ) (Score:2)
Re:You can thank me for this : ) (Score:2)
Microsoft can make it so you can't turn off Autorun in future editions of Windows, though.
Re:You can thank me for this : ) (Score:2)
Lesson (Score:2, Insightful)
If this is any sign of their intelligence... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If this is any sign of their intelligence... (Score:2)
How ironic that you just welcomed our new Defense Contract Management Agency overlords... weirdo.
It ain't about research... (Score:2)
second half of quote (Score:4, Funny)
Jacobs continued by adding, "I'll settle for just creating chilling effects on the concepts of fair use and privacy."
Yeah, well I'm still sueing Compaq (Score:2)
Steve's Law Tips (Score:2)
I'm parafrasing here from an old bloom county cartoon.
Steve (Dallas)'s who to sue tips.
One of the tips was....
Even tough he clearly got the plantif into this mess, he is broke. Never Never sue poor people.
Did hell freeze over? (Score:2)
Countersue? (Score:2)
So, they have written a piece of software that installs itself on my computer without my knowledge or consent, and impairs the normal operation of that computer. Such programs are called trojans and there is a law against knowingly distributing such software, or installing it without my prior conse
Harm? (Score:2)
DRM on CDs and DVds will not be 100% secure and free from breakign the drm to be able to copy the files..
This have been proved numerous times in all quality CS journals.. myabe this cat shoudl read up on his CS research?
Disclosing security thru obscurity to shareholders (Score:2)
DMCA says the freedom of press doesn't apply - we can wait for that to sort itself but that could take years.
So the question now comes up, if the scheme is bad, whose job is it to let the shareholders know?
I would think that SunnComm and other peddlers of copy protection are legally obliged to di
What that really means... (Score:2)
So far, the only think that keeps the DMCA on the books is selective prosecution, and relying on its chilling effects to do most of the dirty work.
Re:What that really means... (Score:2)
Pow'full stench of Men-DAC-ity (Score:3, Interesting)
It's hard to stuff so many misconceptions and questionable assumptions into a single paragraph. This is hardly about the conflict betweeen "strong anti-piracy protections" and "less stringent copyright enforcement." More accurate would be to cite it as an example of the ongoing conflict between weak anti-piracy protections and the legitimate research of academics and professionals who expose it as such.
While we're at it, let's replace "anti-piracy protections" with "anti-duplication technology," just to highlight what this stuff really accomplishes - making it harder (and basically illegal) for individuals to exercise their fair-use rights in a vain attempt to keep copyrighted materials off P2P networks and (probably representing a much bigger impact on actual bottom lines) people from burning dupes of CDs for friends. I find it difficult to imagine anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in propping up the illusion of the efficacy of DRM technology advocating that any of the measures out there represent any real defense against file sharing.
And we can go on to replace "those who favor less stringent copyright enforcement" with "a broad cross-section of individuals, academics, professionals and politicians who question whether draconian legal attacks against individuals, questionable lawsuits against academics, and legislation that extends copyright terms far beyond their traditional boundaries and violates the principles of fair use, freedom of speech and prior restraint in service of protecting claimed technological fixes for copyright violations that have so far failed to materialize as effective methods of preventing the illegal distribution of copyrighted information." Hey, it's not so snappy. But sometimes the truth hurts prose.
And then there's "the decision against legal action represents one of a precious few instances of companies looking past their bottom line." Well, I guess it's nice to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I guess I'll make the cynical observation that this example of a DMCA lawsuit threat getting dropped doesn't seem to be all that unique, now does it? One is tempted to offer the alternative explanation - that after making a knee jerk response to getting hammered in the market (and really, this is the result of how the press reported this article - in and of itself the article would never have had this kind of effect), someone in their legal department noted that the suit was likely going to lose, that it was likely to have the opposite effect of increasing investor confidence and good will, and that DMCA suits threatening academics were a strategy likely to lead to what the industry absolutely doesn't want - a high profile case, illustrating the critical problems with the DMCA, against an individual with representation and back-up (Princeton has made it pretty clear it will stand up against attacks of this nature) likely to take it to the point where the viability of the DMCA itself might be threatened. So they cooked up the best way to spin it and had themselves a press conference.
Shenanigans (Score:2)
Princeton Degrees (Score:2)
I posted this on the previous article, but... (Score:2)
From an MSNBC article [msnbc.com] [msnbc.com]:
Future versions of the SunnComm software would include ways that the copy-protecting files would change their name on different computers, making them harder to find, Jacobs said. Moreover, the company will distribute the technology along with third-party software, so that it doesn't always come off a protected CD, he added.
So, they intend to get their DLL onto your system by having it installed by other unrelated
Success! (Score:2)
That's the problem with... (Score:2)
"We're gonna sue!" is becoming some type of corporate spinal reflex. The words fly out of the festering gobs of corporate mouthpieces and overpaid execs before the (alleged) brain even gets a chance at "Whoops, bad idea." SunnComm is damned lucky that investors are dimmer than they could be; otherwise, the company would have lost much more than 1/3 of its capitalization. (How much contrarian/bottom-feeder buying activity shored up the price? Ya go
I thought that was an odd business model... (Score:2)
I can't see myself being terribly sympathetic to their position if I were on *that* jury.
How is the software installed? (Score:2)
Is that legal at all?
I wish I had a lot of time on my hands.. I'd go buy the CD (paying cash), open it, find out that it's not an audio cd as advertised and in fact tries to hack your machine, try to return it opened, and when refused would sue in a small claims court. Hopefully that would let more people be familiar with the issues. Buy music CDs? No way man, the RIAA just want to hack into your machine. Download the mp3 instead
No more than SunnComm deserve (Score:2)
Catholic Church to Sue SunnComm... (Score:2)
In commenting on SunnComm's statement [sunncomm.com]
The Pope declared [vatican.va]:
What are the odds .... (Score:2)
Translation for those who don't speak moron... (Score:2)
This should read:
'I don't want to be the guy that fucks up this whole DMCA thing,' SunnComm's CEO Peter Jacobs said."
Actually, we need this kind of idiotic ligitation so the problems with the DMCA can become obvious to everyone, and so the courts can act to strike down this piece of shit legislation.
-dameron
I'm glad....I do lots of "Research" (Score:2)
**Research as Sunncomm defines it as pressing a shift key on my keyboard.
Misquote (Score:2)
I think they missed the rest of his quote.
"I'd really rather be the guy who created a big chilling effect but then pretended I didn't."
"I don't be the guy who..." (Score:2)
Get over yourself Pete (Score:2)
Not Research; No Lawsuit = No News (Score:2)
But, since the record companies already knew about this workaround (and also admitted it on CNN), a lawsuit against John Halderman might feasibly open one against BMG. And it would make this workaround headline news.
By forgetting about the entire incident, lots of people are goin
They don't want the attention. (Score:2)
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/complr
Since they are a pinksheet business and don't report any financials as a public company, nobody but them knows whether they'd even be able to mount a case like this.
Re:They don't want the attention. (Score:2)
Oddly... (Score:2)
Re:Haste makes waste... (Score:2)
The DMCA has, on its face, very little credibilty. It's vague, overly broad, and ridiculous in the scope of the punishments it imposes for minor offenses. It has very little chance of standing up to intense court scrutiny, especially at the Supreme Court level.
Right now, however, the DMCA stands. It's useful as an itimidation tool. It can be used to terro
Re:Read between the lines: (Score:3, Informative)
The bad news of course is that THAT was dropping by 1/3rd. HAH!
Re:Chilling Effect on Research? (Score:2)
Daniel
Re:Chilling Effect on Research? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, it seems to me that developing a product to combat casual copying doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't think casual copying is costing the industry a lot of money. And if someone really wants a copy of something, they can always find a geek friend in the neighborhood who can figure out
Re:gross exaggeration (Score:2)
Of course that's not what actually happens, but when you have your panties in a bunch and you're asking a court for damages, you want aim high when stating your case.
On the other hand, damages should only ever be framed in terms of what did happen, not what could happen.
Re:Chilling Effect on Research? (Score:3, Funny)
I agree completely. How much research is needed to find out that autoplay is a feature which you can disable? [techtv.com] And what kind of clusterfuck pile of dumbasses bases a security feature off of something you can disable with a keystroke in the first place???
Research. It only took me 5 seconds to find the above link. Well - thank God I'm still allowed to.
Weaselmancer
Re:Why are they backing off? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why are they backing off? (Score:2)
This is something that has puzzled me since the DMCA was passed. What is considered an "effective means"? Isn't the very fact that the copy protection scheme was able to be bypassed render it ineffective? The very wording of the law would seem to state that the act of violating it would exonerate the one who broke it. You could simply not bypass an effective protection scheme.
Re:Why are they backing off? (Score:2)
Actually, the DMCA does explicitly state it's illegal to bypass an "effective means" of copy protection. Not even the most tech-clueless judge would consider suncomm's protection effective.
Unfortunately, you're using what you think is the standard definition of "effective". The legal definition of "effective" in the DMCA is this (17 USC 1201(3)(B))
Re:Why are they backing off? (Score:3, Insightful)
Cute analogy, but false. At least in Texas, `grand theft auto' is a good deal more serious crime than a theft of a candy bar, aka a `class C misdemeanor'. If you're arrested shoplifting something small (under $20 or $50 I think) the cop often (usually?) won't even take you to jail -- he'll let you sit in the car for a while while he writes up a ticket, then lets you go.
And then once you go to court, if your
Re:Can the RIAA still sue? (Score:2)
I notice that no one else has picked up on this. Who was the first customer for this "copy protection" product? BMG, I believe. Anyways, I wonder if maybe SunnComm will be too busy defending itself from the folks to whom they sold this product to pick on some grad student who had the temerity to point out that this awesome padlock was made out of styrofoam.