Apple Sued By Stalking Victims Over Alleged AirTag Tracking (popsci.com) 108
schwit1 shares a report from Popular Science: [T]wo women filed a potential class action lawsuit against Apple, alleging the company has ignored critics' and security experts' repeated warnings that the company's AirTag devices are being repeatedly used to stalk and harass people. Both individuals were targets of past abuse from ex-partners and argued in the filing that Apple's subsequent safeguard solutions remain wholly inadequate for consumers. "With a price point of just $29, it has become the weapon of choice of stalkers and abusers," reads a portion of the lawsuit, as The New York Times reported [...].
Apple first debuted AirTags in April 2021. Within the ensuing eight months, at least 150 police reports from just eight precincts reviewed by Motherboard explicitly mentioned abusers utilizing the tracking devices to stalk and harass women. In the new lawsuit, plaintiffs allege that one woman's abuser hid the location devices within her car's wheel well. At the same time, the other woman's abuser placed one in their child's backpack following a contentious divorce, according to the suit. Security experts have since cautioned that hundreds more similar situations likely remain unreported or even undetected.
The lawsuit (PDF), published by Ars Technica, cites them as "one of the products that has revolutionized the scope, breadth, and ease of location-based stalking," arguing that "what separates the AirTag from any competitor product is its unparalleled accuracy, ease of use (it fits seamlessly into Apple's existing suite of products), and affordability." The proposed class action lawsuit seeks unspecified damages for owners of iOS or Android devices which have been tracked with an AirTag or are at risk of being stalked. Since AirTags' introduction last year, at least two murders have occurred directly involving using Apple's surveillance gadget, according to the lawsuit.
Apple first debuted AirTags in April 2021. Within the ensuing eight months, at least 150 police reports from just eight precincts reviewed by Motherboard explicitly mentioned abusers utilizing the tracking devices to stalk and harass women. In the new lawsuit, plaintiffs allege that one woman's abuser hid the location devices within her car's wheel well. At the same time, the other woman's abuser placed one in their child's backpack following a contentious divorce, according to the suit. Security experts have since cautioned that hundreds more similar situations likely remain unreported or even undetected.
The lawsuit (PDF), published by Ars Technica, cites them as "one of the products that has revolutionized the scope, breadth, and ease of location-based stalking," arguing that "what separates the AirTag from any competitor product is its unparalleled accuracy, ease of use (it fits seamlessly into Apple's existing suite of products), and affordability." The proposed class action lawsuit seeks unspecified damages for owners of iOS or Android devices which have been tracked with an AirTag or are at risk of being stalked. Since AirTags' introduction last year, at least two murders have occurred directly involving using Apple's surveillance gadget, according to the lawsuit.
AirTag perverts ... (Score:1)
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There's binoculars that break on any Northbound viewing... my father was issued such things after spying on a neighbor.
Re: AirTag perverts ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: AirTag perverts ... (Score:1)
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The gun manufacturers are sued based on marketing. Apple doesn't market these as a great way to stalk your ex.
Re: AirTag perverts ... (Score:1)
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I'm specifically referring to mass-shooting lawsuits, but fair point about other criminal uses.
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That argument doesn't fly with surveillance malware that is sold to governments and abusive spouses. The manufacturer is usually blamed, at least as much as the person that used it.
Re:AirTag perverts ... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Apple has done quite a bit to prevent misuse... From what I know the software detects if an airtag 'follows' you around, especially if it comes to your 'Home'. When that happens, the software lets the victim make it play sounds so as to be able to physically find it. Even if it's been doctored so the sound is disabled, there's no way to keep its entire existence a secret.
I don't quite know what the threshold is for the software deciding the airtag is following you, the verge article talks about two pings in a day can find out work and home location, but doesn't say that's a result of not knowing soon enough. (and actually ridiculous enough to bother mentioning not being alerted to a spouse's airtag when work-from-home and neither of them has left the house. Gee, save us from this scary new technology!). So I'm going to have to assume it warns you before you actually get home. So far so good, I don't see any flaws in what they've done.
But I think the problem is what they haven't done. For one, they're acting like "La la la NO SUCH THING AS ANDROID", when really Apple and any other maker, if they're serious about the abuse potential for their product, should have software for all major platforms that allows someone to at least be warned they're being stalked. Right now, all the victims are required to use Apple phones, or else be sophisticated enough to find and use third-party specialty airtag locator apps (is there more than one??) for Android. Maybe convince/donate airtag antistalker technology for it to come installed on new androids.
Secondly, I think Apple needs to build a few dozen specialty airtag locator hardware that they donate to domestic violence shelters at major locations. Something that sounds an alarm when ANY airtag comes in even once past the front door, and the door staff can register it as known (so like future chime or something instead of alarm) or if it's not legit the person can start searching their possessions immediately. And maybe some 'how to catch and stop stalkers' education to provide to social workers and people like that.
So back to the verge article, it says Apple isn't cooperating with suggestions, but other than Android and a debate about what are reasonable time periods, the only other thing they can come up with is the audio/alert chirp needs to be louder, like to hear while driving and stuff. Err, ok solid complaint, but hardly a smoking gun against Apple.
Re: AirTag perverts ... (Score:2)
Apple does make their detector warning thing for android.
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The first thing I did with the airtag that I hid in my car was to remove the little speaker. I'm not a stalker but I like to know where my car is just in case it gets misplaced. It's trivial to remove the speaker.
A thief may notice that he's being tracked but he'll probably have a real hard time tracking down the tracker. Easier to just leave the car by the side of the road for me to pick up.
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But hasn't Apple made good faith attempts to limit nefarious use of AirTag by sending alerts to iPhone that are near an unknown AirTag? Doesn't this show intention on Apple's part to limit or eliminate an AirTag's use by bad actors?
Since "we" sue the deepest pockets to receive the most money, I guess these perpetrators didn't have any money.
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burn and loot
The burning and looting is a Retrumplican thing. Democrats just bitch and whine.
Re: AirTag perverts ... (Score:1)
"Alleged"?! (Score:2)
Re:"Alleged"?! (Score:4, Insightful)
TFA speaks of "several cases"...
The allegation is that Apple ignored critics' and security experts' repeated warnings, not that there were actual cases.
Re: "Alleged"?! (Score:5, Informative)
From TFS: Since AirTags' introduction last year, at least two murders have occurred directly involving using Apple's surveillance gadget, according to the lawsuit.
Tell me again how that's like tracking your 7 year old child.
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but using AirTags to keep track of you kids in case they get lost or kidnapped is a crime.
It's not. What it is is an irrelevant Strawman and a shitty one at that.
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Parking lot shootings and the tracking of children by their parents have one thing in common: neither of them habe anything to do with the lawsuit under discussion.
Re: "Alleged"?! (Score:2)
The problem with the allegation that âoemurders involved xâ is that there are all sorts of thing a that can be involved in murders. Such as cars, knives, baseball bats, water, â¦ahemâ¦.guns.
Stalkers stalk, and if anything, AirTags are much more discoverable by potential victims than other such gadgets.
But I guess other manufacturers of such devices are not worth 2 trillion dollars.
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Where's the FBI/CIA/Feds to rail against surreptitious tracking?
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Now you're just being silly. I suppose theoretically it would be legal for a civilian to stalk someone too, if they could talk a judge into giving them a warrant.
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From TFS: Since AirTags' introduction last year, at least two murders have occurred directly involving using Apple's surveillance gadget, according to the lawsuit.
Tell me again how that's like tracking your 7 year old child.
Since the introduction of rope 2500 years ago, at least 12 million murders directly involving the use of rope have been committed. . .
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You're about 2,000 year off on the "introduction" of rope. If you have an authoritative sorce for the total number of people murdered with rope, please cite it. But on second thought, don't bother, because your feeble attempt at making a point was wide of the mark. The lawsuit is about Apple’s supposed negligence in not warning Airtag users about the increased use of their product to facilitate stalking and harassment. As to whether the lawsuit has merit - that's debatable, and it's a matter for the c
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You're about 2,000 year off on the "introduction" of rope. If you have an authoritative sorce for the total number of people murdered with rope, please cite it. But on second thought, don't bother, because your feeble attempt at making a point was wide of the mark. The lawsuit is about Apple’s supposed negligence in not warning Airtag users about the increased use of their product to facilitate stalking and harassment. As to whether the lawsuit has merit - that's debatable, and it's a matter for the courts to determine.
Obviously just a SWAG. But my point is still valid; despite your manufactured snark.
Re: "Alleged"?! (Score:2)
There is a difference in the sense that Apple is materially involved in the tracking/stalking, because air tags operate on an Apple-managed network. The alleged stalking would not be nearly as easy without Apple's participation. This is definitely different than using a non-networked physical device in a crime like a knife or a car. The manufacturer is completely uninvolved in the legal or illegal uses of the product. Apple, however is the company actually operating the network and applications that are use
Re: "Alleged"?! (Score:1)
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There is a difference in the sense that Apple is materially involved in the tracking/stalking, because air tags operate on an Apple-managed network. The alleged stalking would not be nearly as easy without Apple's participation. This is definitely different than using a non-networked physical device in a crime like a knife or a car. The manufacturer is completely uninvolved in the legal or illegal uses of the product. Apple, however is the company actually operating the network and applications that are used for legal and illegal things.
Then we best ban the internet, too.
And why wasn't this an issue with Tile?
Oh, I know! Two TREELION Dollars!
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They always use terms like "alleged" until somebody is convicted or a judgment is made in a civil case. It doesn't really matter how many "alleged" cases there are.
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> concealment of Airtags for stalking isn't a forseeable use - Apple even put special features with the airtags to prevent that
Part two is a really solid argument that not only was it forseeable, it was forseen.
I don't think it's necessarily right to put the blame on Apple. Tracking devices have existed forever. These aren't even really better than what existed before. They are much better advertised.
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Part two is a really solid argument that not only was it forseeable, it was forseen.
It only means Apple could anticipate a privacy risk if someone else's Airtag ended up travelling with another iPhone user and could take some reasonable steps to mitigate the risk.
Does Not mean Apple could foresee that the Airtag they were selling to a stalker would be used by the stalker for that purpose;
which is what they need to show in order to establish secondary liability Regarding the actions of a third party in reg
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Apple is deep pockets, average users are not.
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Apple is deep pockets, average users are not.
So, it is just a money-grab.
Got it!
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If torrent users get attacked by lawyers for sharing content why can't the owners of mobile phones who recklessly contributed to the sharing without any thought of the possible repercussions of their actions? Why only sue Apple?
We also see this with "smart speakers" including clickwrap explicitly shifting responsibility for the device committing felonies (e.g. wiretapping) to the owner.
If you are going to own a mobile device that contributes to and or enables crowd sourced privacy invasions why should you also not face legal repercussions for your actions?
Because unlike everybody else Apple is purposefully designing their product to help their hipster cultists do their creepy stalking?
So why no Tile Lawsuits?
Oh, right. Two TREELION Dollars!!!
Make a noise.... (Score:2)
Similar products from Tile make a "Tile Tune" noise when connected to... couldn't that be used to make sure Apple products aren't misused?
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I remember seeing a howto for disabling the "speaker" on airtags. Also, you may not hear it if it's in the wheel well of your car or if the airtag is sufficiently muffled.
I also remember reading that airtags makes a sound but I don't recall exactly when they make that sound.
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The New Guy 3.0 pointed out that anyone could disable a speaker if they didn't want it to make a sound. So what would be the point?
What next, are you going to recommend an LED light that flashes? Oh no, not.... "black electrical tape".
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The New Guy 3.0 pointed out that anyone could disable a speaker if they didn't want it to make a sound. So what would be the point?
Can they? I mean Apple are quite masterful at detecting tampering with electronics to the point where they can even identify legitimate replacements done by someone not blessed to replace the device.
The point here is that Apple made *zero* effort. The point here is that stalkers aren't members of the NSA or an elite hardware hacking team. So what if a speaker is disabled. You've still stopped 99% of cases.
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The New Guy 3.0 pointed out that anyone could disable a speaker if they didn't want it to make a sound. So what would be the point?
Can they? I mean Apple are quite masterful at detecting tampering with electronics to the point where they can even identify legitimate replacements done by someone not blessed to replace the device.
The point here is that Apple made *zero* effort. The point here is that stalkers aren't members of the NSA or an elite hardware hacking team. So what if a speaker is disabled. You've still stopped 99% of cases.
Please defend your bullshit statement "Apple made zero effort". . .
Prove it or STFU, asshole.
Re: Make a noise.... (Score:1)
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AirTags will beep if they're away from their connected device for a few hours.
And if you have an Apple device (phone, watch, iPad) you'll get a notification on your device if you have an unexpected AirTag within your vicinity for too long to warn you about it.
Yaz
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There are videos out there showing how easy it is on how to disable the internal speaker.
There are also ways to muffle the short-range antenna to prevent the victim's iPhone from discovering it, but without disabling long-range tracking.
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There are also ways to muffle the short-range antenna to prevent the victim's iPhone from discovering it, but without disabling long-range tracking.
There is a radio for assisting with direction finding to help you physically locate the tracking device once discovered. Discovery is done via BLE and if you disable that the tracker becomes useless because nothing will report its location.
You can make them hard to find yet they still must remain discoverable to function.
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That doesn't even make sense. Airtags don't have long-range radios at all. They work by communicating with all the iPhones around them, which then report their locations to Apple. If the victim's iPhone can't hear the Airtag, then neither can anybody else's, and the Airtag is completely out of commision.
But, yeah, sure, it's got to be trivial to kill the speake
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There are videos out there showing how easy it is on how to disable the internal speaker.
There are also ways to muffle the short-range antenna to prevent the victim's iPhone from discovering it, but without disabling long-range tracking.
Bullshit.
There is no "long range" antenna.
You have NO IDEA what you are bleating about.
Prove your lies or STFU!
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AirTags will beep if they're away from their connected device for a few hours
At the same time, if some asshole steels my bicycle, I don't want the thing beeping while I track it down. It's a double-edged sword.
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... and I don't want you playing vigilante and trying to recover stolen property yourself...
Then don't steal my property.
Simple as that.
How bout "Find My Phone" apps? (Score:2)
Used it to find my Android phone a couple of months ago.* I could just as well have used it to stalk my estranged spouse. Better ban it!
*It was in my car.
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Yes actually. The potential for abuse greatly outweighs the legitimate uses for these technologies. It should be illegal to supply civilians with any kind of tracking device or device that can be used for tracking. So ban GPS trackers, "find my" in phones, Apple tags and others, GPS loggers, etc. It's literally the only option.
You forgot to ban Encryption!
Software solution (Score:2)
Re:Software solution (Score:4, Informative)
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https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]
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Apple offers an App for Android that will look for trackers that are near your phone but separated from the owner under the premise that either you've found a lost item on somebody's behalf or they are stalking you.
https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]
Can that App be background-ed? It would seem like a Good Thing.
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Doesn't appear that way. It doesn't seem like Apple really made the app much of a priority. That might be an interesting part of this case. I haven't read the filings but a good attorney (IANAL) would hopefully argue that Apple did such a bad job of the Android app that they aren't really taking safety seriously
A quick perusal of the Play Store shows several 3rd Party offerings; some that background.
But If you were really serious about a solution instead of just Apple-bashing, you'd already know that.
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Apple could notify an iPhone owner occasionally when there are Airtags that are always with or close to you. If they are yours it is easy to click yeah, I know. If they are not yours but they follow you around that would be cause to dig deeper. Would also be good for the set it and forget it crowd to let them know that their Airtags are actually working or not now and then.
They already do [apple.com]. Airtags also make sound after while when it's separated from the owner's devices - it was made to help locate misplaced things. For stalking and tracking items at risk of being stolen you have better options.
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Apple iPhones already do this, but there are also ways to hack the hardware to make discovery effectively disabled.
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Apple iPhones already do this, but there are also ways to hack the hardware to make discovery effectively disabled.
Prove it, fucktard.
What is different about this? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's different about AirTags compared to much more capable and advanced tracking devices that have existed for over a decade? Or Tile? AirTags are actually pretty crappy compared to a dedicated self-contained GPS tracker (either with SMS for real-time tracking, or totally off-line tracking and logging that can be downloaded when in proximity of the tracker), because AirTags must be around an iPhone to actually know their location or report it.
The only difference with AirTags is they are pretty cheap for what they do, because of the limitations they have (IE not having an actual GPS receiver or internal logging). I don't understand at all what is unique about Apple in this, or how any of the dozens of other companies who have made various GPS tracking devices over the years aren't liable when Apple is.
You can buy a dirt-cheap Android cell phone for $10 and use that to track someone if you wanted.
Like the difference between an AR-15 & a cross (Score:5, Interesting)
What's different about AirTags compared to much more capable and advanced tracking devices that have existed for over a decade?
What's the difference? It's similar to the Ring doorbell and the CCTV systems that have been around since the 80s. AirTags are much more powerful and much easier to use. They're also super cheap. It's also like the difference between an AR-15 and a crossbow...yeah, a skilled crossbow user is very deadly, but an AR-15 allows you to commit mass murder with less skill and effort.
I don't know where to buy these advanced tracking devices you talk about. A dozen stores near me sell AirTags. These tracking devices you speak of are tracking devices. If you find one, you know the person intended to track you...you look suspicious and are much more likely to have charges pressed against you. AirTags are so ubiquitous I could just say I accidentally dropped mine in my ex-wife's bag when she picked up the kids.
This is similar to the Ring camera debate. We've had surveillance cameras for as long as I've been alive, but they were expensive until recently and required a lot of skill and dedication to use. I live in an urban area. My neighbor's doorbell is 20' from mine, across the street. She can record EVERY person who enters my house without my consent. I have a boring life, but if I was dating, I wouldn't want my neighbor recording every visitor to my house. I'm just waiting for all the blackmail stories to start flowing from nosy neighbors demanding payment to keep video footage away from the wives of those who live across the street from them. Ring makes it easy...any idiot can use them.
In my neighborhood, we have a huge issue with old crazy people installing them and posting videos to Nextdoor.com...including videos of minors, without consent because they're loitering, not cleaning up after their dog, playing past curfew, not wearing a mask while walking outside when we had a mandate, etc. You "could" do this with a VHS surveillance system from the 80s...but it's a lot of work. Ring makes it easy...just as Apple makes it easy to track someone. The worthless idiots on next-door certainly wouldn't have the skill to do this without the help of an easy-to-use consumer device like the Ring doorbell.
You can buy a dirt-cheap Android cell phone for $10 and use that to track someone if you wanted.
The AirTag battery lasts for a year. A $10 android cell lasts for a few days, max.
The concern about AirTags is not that they enable a "new" capability. The concern is they make it very easy for the unskilled and the undermotivated to do it.
I don't understand at all what is unique about Apple in this, or how any of the dozens of other companies who have made various GPS tracking devices over the years aren't liable when Apple is.
Also, you apparently don't understand the difference between suing and winning. I can sue anyone for anything. I can sue you for posting on Slashdot. Will I win?...without a doubt, no. So why is some other company not liable vs Apple?...Apple is only liable if this party wins their case. Otherwise, some ambulance chaser is just making noise and getting headlines. It is meaningless until they win.
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Man, that is a bunch of nonsense. Here is a true GPS tracker. This is a totally stand-alone device which reports its position via the cellular network. Unlike the AirTag this cannot easily be tracked or identified without specialized hardware, and it works without relying on any other iPhones or Android phones being in the proximity. These have been around for a long time, and have gotten extremely cheap. These are FAR more "dangerous" than an airtag for tracking people, and only cost $3 more than an AirT
You're proving my point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Man, that is a bunch of nonsense. Here is a true GPS tracker. This is a totally stand-alone device which reports its position via the cellular network. Unlike the AirTag this cannot easily be tracked or identified without specialized hardware, and it works without relying on any other iPhones or Android phones being in the proximity. These have been around for a long time, and have gotten extremely cheap. These are FAR more "dangerous" than an airtag for tracking people, and only cost $3 more than an AirTag. They do have a monthly fee ($6) because they use cellular data to transmit their location, but still, that's pocket change these days.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075... [amazon.com]
An iPhone is ALWAYS in proximity. My wife owns one and we live in the city...EVERYONE has a phone and probably 75% of them are iPhones. I don't know where I can go to get away from a phone...even in the woods near me...I'll eventually run into someone with one. So yeah, if you're stalking someone in the artic circle, you're correct, otherwise, I don't see it as an issue. Most of us are in the cities and suburbs....so I don't see AirTags as being limited in terms of technology.
Also, your example costs a monthly fee. There's clear evidence you bought this to track someone. There is a paper trail for law enforcement to follow unless you've VERY carefully covered your tracks with burner credit cards. Finding one is evidence you were stalking someone. That's a crime in many places in the USA. Again, you don't accidentally drop a GPS tracking system and pay a monthly fee in someone's car. No one will believe you. Your ex drops an AirTag accidentally in your car?...many would believe that. You could say you lost it and didn't realize it was in his car because you forgot you bought it. Lots of people buy Apple gadgets and forget about them.
And your point is you have to buy a GPS tracker. You have to know they exist (which I didn't until now and most don't know). You have to pay a monthly fee. There's a purchase history and CC bills indicating that you wanted to track something. An AirTag is commonly used for pets, kids, keys, and backpacks. It doesn't look suspicious. It's a common whim purchase. If I saw the box for that GPS tracker in someone's home, I'd wonder what the fuck is wrong with them. If I saw an AppleTag box, I wouldn't think twice...other than maybe I should get one for the next time I lose my keys.
While Apple is not the worst offender, I was really shocked how their initial release was so stalker and criminal-friendly. Now, at least I will know if someone outside my family is stalking me. Someone in my family?...eh, not sure about that, but that's a different debate for a different day.
Should Apple be sued? Eh...not really sure...however, I can definitely see why many view it as an issue. I found it extremely worrisome until they updated the app to report to me if anyone's AirTags are following me. I don't know if those people should win their suit, but as mentioned before....anyone can sue anyone for nearly any reason...it doesn't mean you'll win.
Like with the Ring Doorbell Cam, the issue is not that it invented surveillance or that it's the worst form of it. The issue is how common and easy it is and how it enables the stupid and semi-motivated to cause harm.
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AirTags are only useful for knowing where something has been. They are not real time trackers, even if it happens to be with someone with an iPhone on them (where it will display an alert that there appears to be an AirTag following them).
Tom Scott wears an AirTag and gets chased - https://youtu.be/GmC05wOc5Dw [youtu.be]
Tom Scott does the chasing - https://youtu.be/NuEgjAMfdIY [youtu.be]
So for stalkers, they're useful only to find out where you potentially spend a lot of time.
Tom Scott tried it again with Sam (Wendover Productio
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An iPhone is ALWAYS in proximity. My wife owns one and we live in the city
And this was modded insightful? Because an iPhone is ALWAYS in proximity IN THE CITY? You might not believe this, but not everyone lives in the city, and not everyone uses an iPhone.
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Man, that is a bunch of nonsense. Here is a true GPS tracker. This is a totally stand-alone device which reports its position via the cellular network. Unlike the AirTag this cannot easily be tracked or identified without specialized hardware, and it works without relying on any other iPhones or Android phones being in the proximity. These have been around for a long time, and have gotten extremely cheap. These are FAR more "dangerous" than an airtag for tracking people, and only cost $3 more than an AirTag. They do have a monthly fee ($6) because they use cellular data to transmit their location, but still, that's pocket change these days.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075... [amazon.com]
Exactly!
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I don't know where to buy these advanced tracking devices you talk about.
They call it... the internet. Not to downplay the ease with which tile lets you track people, but there's no shortage of cellular trackers. What makes tile special is that it's cheap and long-lived, though. Cellular trackers aren't exactly expensive, but they cost more than a tile tag.
A dedicated tracker leaves a trail for the police (Score:2)
I don't know where to buy these advanced tracking devices you talk about.
They call it... the internet. Not to downplay the ease with which tile lets you track people, but there's no shortage of cellular trackers. What makes tile special is that it's cheap and long-lived, though. Cellular trackers aren't exactly expensive, but they cost more than a tile tag.
Most don't know GPS trackers exist. Most know about AirTags. Anything you have to mail order and pay a monthly fee leaves a paper trail...while you can get around that, it's difficult. I can walk to my nearest Target, buy AirTags with cash and I am skeptical it can ever be traced back to me. Also, a tracker is designed for stalking. A tile or AirTag is designed for keys, pets, and backpacks. If you get caught leaving a GPS tracker in your coworkers car, the police will have questions for you. If you
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Most don't know GPS trackers exist.
The information on what they are, how they work, and where to buy them is just one google search away... and not an obscure one.
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Ah, the democratization of stalking!
Seriously though, I've had multiple high value thefts in the past two years (motorcycle, e-bike, etc). After that I purchased an old iPhone for $30 and a few airtag kits. All of our vehicles, laptops, and other valuable items are tagged now (sans speaker).
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She can record EVERY person who enters my house without my consent. ..
we have a huge issue with old crazy people installing them and posting videos to Nextdoor.com...including videos of minors, without consent because they're loitering
If I require your consent to use the shared public that you don't own, doesn't that also mean you require MY consent to use the shared public space that I don't own?
If so, I do not grant you my consent to object to this.
If not, why are there different rules for you and I? Why should I care about the unique rights you demand for yourself and only yourself, especially ones that harm me and everyone else?
I'm just waiting for all the blackmail stories to start flowing from nosy neighbors demanding payment to keep video footage away from the wives of those who live across the street from them. Ring makes it easy...any idiot can use them.
If cheaters don't want their cheating behavior known, perhaps they should adjust that behavior.
Privacy doe
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If I require your consent to use the shared public that you don't own, doesn't that also mean you require MY consent to use the shared public space that I don't own?
Just because something happens in public is not an unlimited grant to do as you please with the information.
If so, I do not grant you my consent to object to this. If not, why are there different rules for you and I? Why should I care about the unique rights you demand for yourself and only yourself, especially ones that harm me and everyone else?
This construction is fundamentally flawed. It's not about different peoples rights to do the very same thing. It's about balancing the rights of individuals from encroachment by others.
There are for example limits on the use of radio broadcasts transmitted in the clear, limits on voice recordings captured in public, limits on how video captured in public can be used. These limits apply to everyone.
advocating for posting photos of minors on ND? (Score:2)
She can record EVERY person who enters my house without my consent. ..
we have a huge issue with old crazy people installing them and posting videos to Nextdoor.com...including videos of minors, without consent because they're loitering
If I require your consent to use the shared public that you don't own, doesn't that also mean you require MY consent to use the shared public space that I don't own?
If so, I do not grant you my consent to object to this. If not, why are there different rules for you and I? Why should I care about the unique rights you demand for yourself and only yourself, especially ones that harm me and everyone else?
I'm just waiting for all the blackmail stories to start flowing from nosy neighbors demanding payment to keep video footage away from the wives of those who live across the street from them. Ring makes it easy...any idiot can use them.
If cheaters don't want their cheating behavior known, perhaps they should adjust that behavior.
Privacy doesn't let you pretend your bad behaviors are good. Privacy at best lets you hide your bad behaviors so you can escape the consequences of them. Which is the very thing you are arguing shouldn't be allowed...
Posting pictures of schoolboys not wearing masks on a social media to shame them is not illegal, but it is shitty and the entre community requested this woman stop. She didn't break the law because the law is simply not prepared for these edge cases. There are many things that are not illegal but unethical.
Regarding your cheaters comment, please kindly fuck off. Extortion is a crime, cheating is not. I don't cheat personally and I generally recommend most people don't, but I know quite a few who don'
Re: (Score:1)
I don't understand at all what is unique about Apple in this, or how any of the dozens of other companies who have made various GPS tracking devices over the years aren't liable when Apple is.
Exactly. There's nothing unique about Apple in this. In fact, Apple have taken measure to try to not have AirTags abused like this. If you want to stalk someone there are better choices (Tile etc) than Airtags. Airtags make efforts to announce their presence if they seem to be being abused. But Apple have deep pockets so they're the ones getting sued
Re: (Score:2)
Two big differences:
1. The batteries on these guys last for months on end. Your $10 Android phone certainly won't.
2. While AirTags need to be around an iPhones (or Apple Watch or iPad) to transmit their location, it can be any such device practically anywhere in the world. In geographic regions where iPhones are commonplace, being near an iPhone/Apple Watch/iPad isn't all that difficult of a situation. An AirTag in even a small city anywhere in North America is likely getting pings relayed several times
Re: (Score:2)
What's different about AirTags compared to much more capable and advanced tracking devices that have existed for over a decade?
Cost, size, ubiquity, battery life, ease of use, I'm sure I could go on if I dedicated more than one braincell to thinking about it.
I am confused. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
It was obvious that they were going to be abused this way, and Apple was clearly aware because they built in some easily circumvented features to try to prevent it.
The responsible thing would have been to make it all open standard, and work with Google to ensure Android devices can detect them. They managed to come up with the contract tracing protocol for COVID together. Google could have patched most active Android devices the same as they did fit COVID, even if the manufacturer no longer supports them.
An
If Apple folds... (Score:2)
Every accommodation that Apple can make to satisfy these litigators will make AirTags less useful for their intended purposes. The software changes already made to warn "stalking victims" make AirTags a lot less useful for finding stolen gear.
Re: (Score:2)
Every accommodation that Apple can make to satisfy these litigators will make AirTags less useful for their intended purposes. The software changes already made to warn "stalking victims" make AirTags a lot less useful for finding stolen gear.
And nobody seems to think of that downside.
And it is a downside.
Stupid (Score:2)
Wait until they discover you can buy a cellular enabled GPS tracker on Amazon for less than the price of an AirTag. Pop in a burner sim and you can track anyone. And unlike the AirTag, it won't alert you to its presence.
Re: (Score:2)
"burner sim " = joins the "NO SERVICE" net after a month.
So the problem is... (Score:3)
what separates the AirTag from any competitor product is its unparalleled accuracy, ease of use (it fits seamlessly into Apple's existing suite of products), and affordability
Nice ad for Apple... Essentially they are not saying that what AirTags are able to do wasn't possible back then, they are saying that it is too cheap. Might as wall ban phone cameras when we are at it, too easy to stalk with these, it wasn't a problem when cameras were big black boxes with photographic plates.
I understand the concern, but technology marches on. If AirTag-like devices become a problem, make new laws related to these, but don't blame Apple for just making existing technology more accessible.
Good? (Score:2)
hardly difficult to get a better tracker anyway. (Score:2)
googling "amazon tracker device" turns up plenty of better options than airtags - things that are small, cheap, have longer lasting batteries, and importantly _won't alert the person I"m tracking_.
Obviously Apple can't argue that stalking was "unforeseen" since they added the anti-stalking features in there, but there comes a point where I don't think there is much that can be done and the technology isn't unreasonable to have as a regular consumer - at some point there is only so much to be done and it's t
sue car manufacturer too (Score:2)
might as well sue the car manufacturer since a stalker will drive pass their home and follow them when out and about.