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The Courts Social Networks The Internet

California Parents Could Soon Sue For Social Media Addiction (apnews.com) 155

California could soon hold social media companies responsible for harming children who have become addicted to their products, permitting parents to sue platforms like Instagram and TikTok for up to $25,000 per violation under a bill that passed the state Assembly on Monday. The Associated Press reports: The bill defines "addiction" as kids under 18 who are both harmed -- either physically, mentally, emotionally, developmentally or materially -- and who want to stop or reduce how much time they spend on social media but they can't because they are preoccupied or obsessed with it. Business groups have warned that if the bill passes, social media companies would most likely cease operations for children in California rather than face the legal risk.

The proposal would only apply to social media companies that had at least $100 million in gross revenue in the past year, appearing to take aim at social media giants like Facebook and others that dominate the marketplace. It would not apply to streaming services like Netflix and Hulu or to companies that only offer email and text messaging services. [...] The bill gives social media companies two paths to escape liability in the courts. If the bill becomes law, it would take effect on Jan. 1. Companies that remove features deemed addictive to children by April 1 would not be responsible for damages. Also, companies that conduct regular audits of their practices to identify and remove features that could be addictive to children would be immune from lawsuits.
"Monday's vote is a key -- but not final -- step for the legislation," adds the report. "The bill now heads to the state Senate, where it will undergo weeks of hearings and negotiations among lawmakers and advocates. But Monday's vote keeps the bill alive this year."
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California Parents Could Soon Sue For Social Media Addiction

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  • by Quzak ( 1047922 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @09:27PM (#62566598)
    "Business groups have warned that if the bill passes, social media companies would most likely cease operations for children in California rather than face the legal risk." Sounds good, can we get this everywhere?
    • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      You beat me to it, I'm not seeing the downside.

    • by dbialac ( 320955 )
      But it brings up the question: why does the parent just not buy their kid a smart phone? This seems entirely avoidable by the parent.
      • That's the obvious first condition of a consent decree. The plaintiffs, direct and imputed, agree to deny their children access to a phone or computer unless it has verifiable firewalling and security software preventing access (as if that ever works, but hey...). Second condition, anyone furnishing these children a phone or computer without this software is banned from these services, minimum two years, or until they turn 18/whatever.

      • Because accessing Facebook and TikTok is not the sole function of smartphones. If you don't want your kids addicted to social media, you should block them from making phone calls, taking photos, checking email, and reading news as well?

    • by shanen ( 462549 )

      Nice FP joke and too true. The topic deserved more funny...

      My new meme along these lines is "Trauma Considered as a Helix of Semi-Valid Tweets", but I can't figure out where the joke is supposed to fit...

  • Any parent with a $100k or so burning a hole in their pocket can mount a multi-year legal battle against a $billion+ social media company in an attempt to collect a $25k judgement.

  • How is this not effectively a bill of attainder?

    I hate advertising companies posing as "social media" as much as the next guy, but these bills that target companies of a specific size and are defined vaguely enough so that such suits are probably indefensible... doesn't seem like the right way to go about this.

    But if this does pass muster, can you please write some legislation so I can sue because my spouse is addicted? And all the other people out there? I'm definitely harmed because of all these other peo

    • Not bill of attainder. For starters, it's merely a civil cause of action not a criminal law. But, it would still violate the ex post facto clause if it was made retroactive.

      But it is unconstitutional as a violation of the 1st ammendment. The thing that is allegedly causing the harm is the speech (choice of post, notifications etc displayed) of the social media companies and that unlikely to pass muster.

      • But it is unconstitutional as a violation of the 1st ammendment. The thing that is allegedly causing the harm is the speech

        No it's not. This has nothing to do with speech or content that people are consuming.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        But it is unconstitutional as a violation of the 1st ammendment....

        No. The courts have upheld Time, Place, and Manner restrictions that don't discriminate against the content of the speech.

        Passing Civil liability for damages onto social media companies for damage caused by their service is not an abridgement of free speech.

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )
        Please tell me where it says that the rights granted by the constitution are also universally applicable to minors.
        • Does the constitution specifically call out adults as the only beneficiaries?
          • by mark-t ( 151149 )
            Not generally, no. But there are instances in it where rights afforded to Americans in general are not universally applied to minors. The second amendment comes to mind most obviously, and I'm not sure if the first amendment would somehow be any different.
        • Fun. Are the defendants, who would have said rights, minors?
  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @09:41PM (#62566622)
    On the one hand it does seem like overreach but on the other hand it's been repeatedly leaked through a wide variety of documents that social media companies actively manipulate users into compulsive behavior.

    On the other other hand if we're going to go after them how about we go after mobile game developers and sports game developers. The guys who make Candy crush are some of the most evil motherfuckers on the planet. Hell fucking Smurfs game was evil as fuck.

    I do think we should regulate what these companies can do just like we regulate what can be on over the air TV. I don't think this is something we should leave to the free market any more than we leave compulsory education up to the free market.
    • We should also allow people to sue sports franchises. The NFL, NBA, and NHL all try to get people to watch their games, and many people do so compulsively.

      At least the professional soccer league is safe in America. Nobody watches that.

      • Have on their payroll dedicated to increasing engagement? Facebook and the guys who make the candy game have entire teams of them.

        There's a difference between hiring marketers to put your product in the best light and hiring psychologists and psychiatrists to manipulate people into addiction
        • The NFL is mostly about advertising and licensing, the game is secondary to that goal. They probably have more psychologists per megabyte of data involved in their content than Faceboot does. The NFL is just selling a lot less for a lot more.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        At least sports encourage healthy behaviour, with the possible exception of American Football. I think the general consensus is that social media is mostly harmful.

        • American "Sports" just encourage fat, lazy, Americans to sit on their fat, lazy, asses and watch the idiot box for 4 hours while swilling dong-water beers and eating wheel-barrows full of salt and sugar. Of that 4 hours, 20 minutes is actual gameplay footage, the rest is advertising for dong-water beer and wheel-barrows of salt and sugar.
    • And how does that differ from every highly packaged and managed band? What about the latest book trying to convince people to join some political cause or adopt some weird lifestyle? They all hire marketing people to make them more appealing. Hell, psychology isn't even 200 years old and we've been studying how to make music irresistible for much longer than that.

      Ultimately, this seems to be largely determined by the lens you look at it through. We see writing an appealing book or performing a compellin

      • And how does that differ from every highly packaged and managed band?

        My thoughts exactly. In my opinion, there's a huge difference between a chemical addiction - such as opiates - and a psychological addiction. Yes, I know everything is chemical because brain blah blah blah, but the two are obviously not the same.

        Opiates, for instance, are addictive to EVERYONE, because of how the chemicals work. Gambling, social media or Fortnite (for instance) are not addictive to everyone. Use of these 'psychologically addictive' forms of entertainment is a CHOICE for which we must bear p

        • Opiates, for instance, are addictive to EVERYONE, because of how the chemicals work. Gambling, social media or Fortnite (for instance) are not addictive to everyone. Use of these 'psychologically addictive' forms of entertainment is a CHOICE for which we must bear personal responsibility. Whilst taking opiates may be a choice, becoming addicted to them is not - it's essentially guaranteed because of biochemistry.

          This paragraph is self-contradictory. You acknowledge that gambling, social media and games can be addictive to some, but then say that using these forms of entertainment is a choice. But how would you know if you're going to become addicted to them ahead of time, and your addiction is essentially guaranteed because of your biochemistry?

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Social media might be the next tobacco.

  • Parents (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GoJays ( 1793832 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @09:53PM (#62566636)
    If your kid is addicted to social media, that is on you as a parent. There are plenty of ways to moderate what and how much your child consumes on the internet. If a child becomes addicted to something, that is because you as a parent weren't doing your job. Instead of handing them a tablet/phone/computer, spend time with your child, open doors for them to experience new things, sign them up for clubs, read with them, etc. If they are addicted to social media it is most likely the parents use it as a digital babysitter and aren't involved enough in their children's' lives. Sounds crazy, but how about try parenting for once and not blame other people because your kid is a total fuck up due to your lack of parental guidance.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Progressive legislation is all about removing personal responsibility for anything. It's never your fault, never the parents fault, only the fault of big bad . They view the government as being responsible for instituting laws and regulations to save you from yourself and to push all responsibility elsewhere.

      • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:40AM (#62566852)
        Through the community as a whole. It's funny that the same people a little criticize parents for being too overprotective are always there to tell parents that they're responsible for every moment of their child's life even when mega corporations are hiring psychiatrists and psychologists to manipulate them for monetary gain.

        Individuals cannot and never have been able to stand up to mega corporations. In the distant past we called them trusts and monopolies. I don't understand why it is that we forgot the reasons why we passed laws limiting their ability to exploit us for profit... At some point this cult of the Ayn Rand style great man managed to warm its way back into our collective psyche. Coincidentally right around the time several very wealthy people bought up all the newspapers, radio stations and TV channels...

        Also in this case these would be lawsuits. Lawsuits require that you can show damages. That means that the parents in question would have had damage done to their children already. By that time I'm sure they've long since realized and pulled back on their child's access to social media. The point at this time is that damage has been done and financial compensation may be warranted.

        Apparent might find that they're not skilled enough to deal with addiction and need to hire a professional for that. I don't know if it's entirely unreasonable that given that we know for a fact social media companies are encouraging that kind of addiction and that the addiction is extremely likely to be harmful that they should be let off the hook for the costs involved in undoing the damage they caused knowingly.
        • Stupid legislation is stupid legislation. If companies are manipulating children, then it's reasonable for a parent to restrict access to their children; furthermore, it is also reasonable to expect parents to behave in this fashion. It might also be reasonable to ban the practice of hiring shrinks to make it easier for companies to manipulate children in general.

          Exposing "social media" companies to lawsuits from parents who allege addiction is a twisted way of solving the problem. Especially if the bill

          • Exposing "social media" companies to lawsuits from parents who allege addiction is a twisted way of solving the problem.

            It's not one problem. If social media companies are deliberately psychologically manipulating children in ways they know are harmful in order to improve their bottom line, then they should absolutely, positively, and with prejudice be subjected to costly lawsuits until they stop. There is literally no reason they should be permitted to do that, and there is every indication that this is what they are doing.

          • The companies are manipulating the children with their parents' consent. They consented to it when they gave them access to facebook.
          • Media is almost completely pro-corporate. Facebook sells it's addictive service to children the same as anyone else. 13 is the minimum (and yes, it's easy to get around that, but it's at least there).

            Facebook isn't going to advertise their kids serves as "dangerously addictive". At best they do a little lip service about "screen time". This means the deck is stacked against the parents. Most media sources will go out of their way to downplay the risks and problems with social media for children. So unle
      • Re:Parents (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Miles_O'Toole ( 5152533 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @03:18AM (#62567010)

        Give it a rest, John Galt. In 1962, my grandfather was a lead hand at National Steel Car...not even a foreman. He made between ten and twelve grand a year. In today's Canadian dollars, that amounts to about a hundred grand a year. With that salary, he bought a really nice lot with a view across Lake Ontario, had an architect design and build the house he put on it, and he and my grandmother happily lived in it for years. They had two cars in the driveway and garage, and the family took regular holidays. And he retired on a full pension at 55. My grandmother didn't have to work. Her job was raising kids as a full-time parent.

        Why don't you tell me how many jobs Joe Average Dude and Mrs. Dude would have to hold down today to do that. These days, both parents are working...sometimes two and three jobs...just to put food on the table and a roof over their kids' heads. Productivity may have gone sky high, but wages sure as hell haven't kept up. And hey, guess what? "Back in the day, there were rigorous controls on what kind of advertising could be shown on children's shows. The art of highly manipulative advertising was in its infancy, and the idea that a giant corporation could reach into a device your kid carries for safety and psychologically manipulate them would be a story for the Outer Limits, not a real life symptom of a sick, perverted society where EVERYTHING is the parents' fault if they don't find a way to work those multiple jobs and lock down their children 24-7.

        But hey, no doubt all on your own, with no help from anybody, you have done all this and more...risen to become peers with Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and the rest of the billionaire giants who bestride the world, telling everybody else hard work, personal responsibility and tax avoidance are the answer to everything.

      • huh.

        Today I learned that the Republicans are progressive. Who knew?

      • I can see "both sides" of this argument pretty clearly. On one hand you have parental responsibility, how can they just let their kids run wild right? And on the other hand you've got the fact that advertising works, selective presentation works, propaganda works. People use these techniques because they work at least some of the time even on an educated populace. But that brings us to the next point, government failure. The government's public education is supposed to be useful, is it? Does it teach us wha

    • If your kid is addicted to gambling? That would also be the parents'/child's fault, right? No need to regulate casinos & online gambling, right? This would be sensible regulation to minimise harm to minors. It promises to prevent or at least reduce to a degree social media companies from aggressively pursuing children regardless of the harm they may cause. I can imagine responsible parents being in favour of this which is why it's already well on its way to becoming law. Sorry about your corporate freed
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I guess you don't have kids. They are usually more tech savvy than their parents, and have nothing better to do than nag their parents for internet access. Plus these days they probably need it for school work, especially in the last couple of years with pandemic lockdowns.

      This argument comes around every few years. Banning chocolate at children's eye level in supermarket checkouts back in the 90s. Parenting is hard at the best of times, and people are having fewer children in part because of that. Making i

      • Parenting is hard at the best of times, and people are having fewer children in part because of that

        Good. At current per capita rates of consumption of resources we need a reduction of over 25% in population for sustainability. I'm open to other solutions but since they don't seem to be happening, I'm good with depopulation. I only wish that there would be more education involved so the process could be less messy.

      • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        If you can stop your kids from going to PornHub, you can stop them from going to Facebook. There's routers you can buy with parental controls if you're not tech-literate enough to install some software to do it or configure a hosts file.

        Banning chocolate is an easily enforced and easily followed rule. Law enforcement can easily tell whether a store is violating it, and the store can easily not violate it. Asking social media to not be addictive is like asking Wall Street to not make money. They are designed

  • I think non-substance "addiction" is a gray area. It should be fairly easy to prove whether opium or sugar is addictive or not. But how do you prove a TV show or a video game is or isn't addictive?

    On the other hand, maybe the target is really the personalized or algorithmic, "recommendations" on the social media platforms. Removing these feeds from the kids' version of the site could solve the problem. It would be nice if someone could post a PDF of the actual bill so we won't be engaging in what's basicall

    • by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @10:59PM (#62566742)

      Whatever a couple expert witnesses say they are. Here's the bill, which both AP and Slashdot were negligent in not linking.
      https://leginfo.legislature.ca... [ca.gov]

      "on their social media platforms that the company knows or should know are addictive to children"

      Time for social media companies to get the hell out of California.

      • by schwit1 ( 797399 )

        "on their social media platforms that the company knows or should know are addictive to children"

        ... should have known? They designed it to be addictive. And they are constantly tweaking it to make it more so. Social Media is the nicotine of the internet.

        • What, you mean an overblown "addiction" agent? Nicotine addiction is mostly bullshit, generally people are addicted to the ritual and habit of smoking. You could remove the nicotine from the tobacco somehow and not tell them and they would have just as hard a time quitting. Then there's the "more addictive than heroin!" bullshit, which is totally devoid from reality. By the metric they use to claim that, overeating of food is actually more addictive than either - tons of fat people who can't kick the habit.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I think non-substance "addiction" is a gray area. It should be fairly easy to prove whether opium or sugar is addictive or not. But how do you prove a TV show or a video game is or isn't addictive?

      There are several factors in determining if someone is addicted, and they're fairly easy to tell, even for non-substance addictions.

      It basically boils down to self control - an addicted person cannot exercise self-control in that they can stop the addictive behavior at will. Are you a slave to the notifications? Y

      • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        You can make that diagnosis on an individual level, but you can't on a single piece of social media. There's no way to prove that a post made by XYZ at this time 1234 is addictive.

        Not to mention we're talking about social media companies here. They are not psychologists and they can't make these diagnoses. Do you want them to have the brain scans of each and every child that goes on their website or app?

        It would make a lot more sense for a medical professional to diagnose the addiction, then ask social medi

  • by Chas ( 5144 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @10:20PM (#62566698) Homepage Journal

    Who could have known that babysitting using the internet was going to have problems?

    Oh...only a couple generations of people who were babysat by TELEVISIONS?

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday May 26, 2022 @12:42AM (#62566860)
      Who post memes about how when you were a kid you did all this dangerous stuff and that you turned out fine? So which is it? Our parents supposed to watch everything their kid does and control every moment of their lives or a parent supposed to take a step back and let the child learn through mistakes and pain ?

      It's almost as if the blame is always on the parent and never on the mega corporation taking advantage of a situation to make huge profits by exploiting people, particularly children and confused parents...

      Your philosophy isn't internally consistent. You should take a step back and reevaluate it.
      • by Briareos ( 21163 )

        Who post memes about how when you were a kid you did all this dangerous stuff and that you turned out fine?

        *insert "survivorship bias meme" [knowyourmeme.com] here*

        Is it just me, or do we just not hear as much from those that didn't turn out fine?

      • by Chas ( 5144 )

        There's a vast difference between paying attention to your children and watching them every second of the day.

        The people I'm talking about have done NEITHER.

        The only reason why it doesn't appear internally consistent is you're projecting a strawman into it.

        • If prior generations were so great, why didn't they grow up to be great parents? The people doing the parenting today were raised by the people you think were doing a better job, because they were more involved. Why didn't they produce offspring who would be more involved in their children's lives?

          • to individuals. Nothing ever needs to be fixed in systems. Nothing ever needs to be changed in society. Every problem is always the fault of you, just you, nobody else.

            If you've got problems it's always just that you didn't pull hard enough on the bootstraps. Nevermind that it's physically impossible to do that. That phrase was originally a cynical joke and we Americans ran with it.
          • by Chas ( 5144 )

            You're essentially assuming that greatness is some sort of universal trait.
            If you're a great parent, you MUST be a great NASCAR driver. Or a great brain surgeon.

            It doesn't work like that.

            • Actually, what I'm saying is that if their supposed greatness didn't let them produce at least average offspring then they're just not that great. If your greatness comes at the expense of the future, we're better off without it.

    • by mmell ( 832646 )
      Okay, so there's more than enough blame to go around. The courts should definitely take that into account as a circumstance in mitigation or extenuation, possibly even reducing social media's overall liability to some extent.
    • Oh fuck off. Your definition of parenting is helicoptering over your kid 100% of the time or making them grow up in a literal cage. If parenting was such an easy solution we wouldn't have 7 generations of chain smokers, drugs wouldn't be a thing, neither would gambling or anything else that people get addicted to.

      Notice how all the things I mentioned transcend age groups? But they all have one thing that separates them from social media addiction: There's no laws preventing social media companies specifical

      • by Chas ( 5144 )

        Ah, another person who sees my issue with parents abandoning their "little flesh accessories" to entertainment media on the internet and jumps immediately to "Helicopter Parent the kid 24x7".

        Going absolutist for the strawman. As opposed to admitting there are nearly infinite fine gradations and nuance in there.

        Then basically giving up and doing the "Well, it's gonna happen anyhow."
        This is the lazy attitude that will ultimately leave you wondering why your crotchfruit went rotten and hurt a bunch of people.

        • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )

          Going absolutist for the strawman. As opposed to admitting there are nearly infinite fine gradations and nuance in there.

          But aren't you going absolutist for the strawman too? Implying that kids are addicted to social media because the "parents abandon[ed] their "little flesh accessories" to entertainment media on the internet"?

          • by Chas ( 5144 )

            I didn't say "social media". I said "the computer".

            It's being used as a babysitting device instead of spending time with the children.

            And nowhere did I say the parents have to be in their kids shit 24x7.

            Simply to PAY ATTENTION AND BE INVOLVED...PERIOD.

            You park a kid in front of a computer or a television instead of engaging with them AT ALL, yeah, you're going to wind up with some severely maladjusted individuals.

            • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )

              And nowhere did I say the parents have to be in their kids shit 24x7.

              Of course not, but you seem to imply that the only kids who could possibly be negatively affected by social media are those that are basically abandoned by their parents. By saying stuff like this:

              You park a kid in front of a computer or a television instead of engaging with them AT ALL, yeah, you're going to wind up with some severely maladjusted individuals.

              I just find it funny that you said

              Going absolutist for the strawman. As opposed to admitting there are nearly infinite fine gradations and nuance in there.

              yet so much of what you're sayiing is quite the strawman.

        • Ah, another person who sees my issue with parents abandoning their "little flesh accessories" to entertainment media on the internet and jumps immediately to "Helicopter Parent the kid 24x7".

          I didn't jump on it. You did. Either that or you don't understand how addiction works. I assume you're the same kind of person that says "one hit is okay" or "I can stop any time".

          Please get a clue. You either lock your kid in a cage or they will get addicted to addictive substances / practices. There's a reason this shit is regulated, and it's precisely so idiots like you don't propose everyone become a bad parent.

          • by Chas ( 5144 )

            "I didn't jump on it."
            You do not "jump on" a conclusion. You jump TO it.
            You, specifically, jumped TO it.

            As for the rest, are you even following the conversation?
            Or are you REACTING to your perception of what the conversation is?

            My basic point is that if a parent exhibits a certain amount of involvement in their childrens' lives, it becomes much harder for them to wind up deranged lunatics because of all the shit they encounter, unsupervised.

  • by doug141 ( 863552 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2022 @11:05PM (#62566752)

    I thought I read that social media companies hired professionals in psychology to determine how to engage and retain user attention... to "hack dopamine." Of kids, too.

    • Ok, so what if they did. How is that different than every advertiser ever?

      But sure, they want you to use their product. And maybe that product is even harmful but I don't see how this differs in the slightest from insane clown posse making albums that appeal to youth with sounds they know people like based on 100s of years of study into what makes appealing music? Or the intensely managed production and marketing of artists like Taylor Swift or your favorite boy band.

      And every religion ever is a finely m

      • by mmell ( 832646 )
        New media and new exploits call for new tools to enforce new rules. This isn't your grandfather's internet.
    • This is such a bullshit argument. It's the same one some people use to claim the food companies are "hacking" our brains to addict us to food.

      Here's the problem - that "hacking" is also called "making taste good". You're just applying a silly label to it to make it sound sinister. They hired people to discover how to make social media more engaging and entertaining, but since people have an agenda they decided to play with words to manipulate opinions and called that (lol) "hacking dopamine". It's transpare

  • if there was some way to shut off the internet..
  • I expect them to run into serious 1st ammendment issues with any such lawsuits. At the end of the day, the claim is based on the content of the social media platform's speech (what posts they choose to display, visual design of their sites, notifications etc...). Indeed, it might even be considered viewpoint. It's going to be hard to overcome the existing first amendment doctrine which imposes some high barriers to such laws.

    And rightly so. Maybe social media is unhealthy in a way that rock music or com

    • I expect them to run into serious 1st ammendment issues with any such lawsuits.

      You have the right to free speech, not the right to freedom from consequences. You can say anything you want, but if you're knowingly and deliberately saying it to cause harm for profit purposes then there's no reason why you not get your comeuppance.

      • Did you just say "durr durr, derpity derp, durr durr"? Because that's what I heard. It's pure asinine gibberish.

        Sorry, Mr Welch, we don't like your anti-government speech. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to freedom from consequences so you're going to prison.

        Sorry, Ms Gimble, you have the right to free speech but not the right to avoid being sued over it. MegaCorp didn't like your reviews, pay them $5M or we'll confiscate it at gunpoint. But fear not, we respect your free speech just no

        • Did you just say "durr durr, derpity derp, durr durr"?

          No, I said you're a big idiot who wants his thinking done for him.

          You have the right to free speech, but not the right to freedom from consequences so you're going to prison.

          Free speech has never been a blank check. Your insistence otherwise is either ignorance or malice. Either way, "durr durr, derpity derp, durr durr".

          • Of course it hasn't. There are very specific exceptions for incitement, slander, imminent endangerment, etc..

            But you lot try to confuse the issue. Claiming that you aren't "free from consequences" from your speech is just another way to say there is no free speech. Consequences and "free" are literally antithetical.

            I get why you make the argument, you think it opens up the ability to censor speech you don't like under the "not free from consequences!" concept. I guess it's a nice gig if anyone buys it.

            In f

            • Of course it hasn't. There are very specific exceptions for incitement, slander, imminent endangerment, etc..

              Okay, so if you understand that, what's the problem? I noticed you didn't mention fraud. Is that because you approve of fraud? Because that's what we're talking about here.

              In fact, by definition, you are indeed free from consequences from government action of any kind (including civil) for speech that doesn't fall under the very narrowly defined exceptions as mentioned.

              Except you didn't mention the only relevant one here, which I have to suspect is on purpose.

  • Seems only fair that if you can sue for their kids becoming addicted to something most people don't then the company should be able to sue the parents for being shitty parents right? I mean why did you let your kid sit in front of a computer long enough to become a junkie for this?
      California has too much time on its hands and refuses to spend it doing the obvious. Parenting.

  • Companies that conduct regular audits of their practices to identify and remove features that could be addictive to children would be immune from lawsuits.

    Given that caveat, it seems the main outcome of this bill will be that social media companies hire a few interns or psychology grad students (the grad students are probably cheaper...), have them do an annual "audit", and make some token tweaks based on what they find.

  • This is how politicians raise money nowadays. Once social media companies have handed over a sufficient sum of money this bill will surely disappear.

  • <sarcasm>I want to sue you for my mistakes. I like making lawyers rich. </sarcasm>
  • Can parents sue tobacco companies if their kids become addicted to tobacco? Can parents use pharmaceutical companies if their kids get hooked on Oxy? There's plenty of addictive things, and services, but why hold only social media companies accountable? No one is forced to use Facebook, Twitter, or Mastodon, no one is forced to post updates on Instagram, so why hold those companies accountable for simply making a product that a kids chooses to use?

    If you support this kind of legislation, then do you als
  • The parents sue. It settles out of court. The lawyers got paid a crap ton of money. The social media company gets bufu'ed but they really don't because they pass it on to the advertisers paying to keep the company in business and the stockholders in reduced or eliminated dividends. Who also benefits from this? The state of California that gets to tax every transaction along the way. Nice work if you can get it.

    • If the shareholders get less profit then they will want the corporation to change behavior so that they get more profit. You make it sound like this law is a good idea which will be effective. Was that your intent?

  • Because everyone except parents is the reason their kids are f-ed up.

  • What's next?
    Pedophiles suing schools because they offer the product they are addicted to, children, making it hard to live around them?

  • If it's so bad why aren't they just telling their kids 'no social media' and enforcing it? FFS learn to parent.

Receiving a million dollars tax free will make you feel better than being flat broke and having a stomach ache. -- Dolph Sharp, "I'm O.K., You're Not So Hot"

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