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China Privacy

Dutch Athletes Warned To Keep Phones and Laptops Out of China (reuters.com) 138

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
schwit1 shares a report: Dutch athletes competing in next month's Beijing Winter Olympics will need to leave their phones and laptops at home in an unprecedented move to avoid Chinese espionage, Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant reported on Tuesday. The urgent advice to athletes and supporting staff to not bring any personal devices to China was part of a set of measures proposed by the Dutch Olympic Committee (NOCNSF) to deal with any possible interference by Chinese state agents, the paper said citing sources close to the matter. NOCNSF spokesman Geert Slot said cybersecurity was part of the risk assessment made for the trip to China, but declined to comment on any specific measure. "The importance of cybersecurity of course has grown over the years", Slot said. "But China has completely closed off its internet, which makes it a specific case."
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Dutch Athletes Warned To Keep Phones and Laptops Out of China More

Dutch Athletes Warned To Keep Phones and Laptops Out of China

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  • Just get some shitty Android phone as a burner and use it for the 2 weeks you're there. Leave it there when you go.

    • Get a Nokia dumbphone - more or less unhackable and even if they could there's little they could do with it beyond reading texts and contacts.

      • And recording conversations. Some people still talk, you know.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          They don't need to hack the phone for that - 2G encryption was broken years ago.

          • Does that really matter when the cell tower is owned by the Chinese?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by taustin ( 171655 )

            And even if it weren't, China requires the carrier to have a back door.

            • China and the US are so alike, I am surprised we don't get along better.

              • China and the US are so alike, I am surprised we don't get along better.

                Alike but the US are self-haters. You know how after atrocities in the US a bunch of politicians exclaim, "This isn't who we are!" - Obviously self-hating. So maybe the US are projecting their self-hatred onto the similarities with themselves that they see with China? Who knows?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Hodr ( 219920 )

          Are we assuming these athlete's are discussing state secrets and have military/government documents on their devices? Why would China, or anyone, care what some dutch bobsledder has on their computer/phone?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      The cheap phones have really crappy cameras. Maybe get a USB camera?

      • Or, get a vintage analog 35mm camera off eBay. Then following in the footsteps of all the athletes up through the 20th century, somehow survive the games with just that.

    • But what do you do with that burner 'phone ? It will be compromised by Chinese police through forced install of monitoring software [forbes.com]. If you then login to your email/twitter/... account then they probably get your password. The only safe thing to do is not use any electronics other than voice telephone. The athletes will be part of a team: let the team management at home handle social media, etc, for a fortnight.

      • But what do you do with that burner 'phone ? It will be compromised by Chinese police through forced install of monitoring software [forbes.com]. If you then login to your email/twitter/... account then they probably get your password. The only safe thing to do is not use any electronics other than voice telephone. The athletes will be part of a team: let the team management at home handle social media, etc, for a fortnight.

        You accept that it will be compromised. It just will. You buy the burner before entering the country, then toss it afterwards. Destroy it. The computer? Buy a cheap one, and only install a bare minimum of programs. Make a only in country burner email account, then at a minimum toss the drive or better yet, look at it as a cost of the journey and ditch it. You might switch out drives if you're handy, if you figure they didn't mess with the BIOS.

        Another possibility is donating that computer to authorities

      • Make calls and text messages.

        You can go a couple of weeks without email while competing in the Olympics.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      Use it for what, exactly? OK, it won't have any sensitive information stored on it when you get there, but still, anything you use it for would be spied on by the Chinese government. Who you call or text, what you say, pictures you take, etc.

      On the other hand, if your objection is being spied on by the Chinese government, you shouldn't go at all, since they'll be spying on you whether you're using an electronic device or not.

      • 1) Spyware implanted or installed on a burner device outlives the usefulness once you stop using the burner device. 2) The burner device is less likely to contain all your data that you keep on your regular device unless you put it on there.
    • And?

      Are you expecting Mr "Convert all brain cells into a muscle" to be smart enough to set up a full set of burner cloud accounts, transfer only the data which is needed, then transfer everything back after the competition. You gotta be kidding.

      In any case, IMHO their phones and laptops are not really under threat. They are not interesting as they are not in the know or in the loop for anything. Now their luggage and their "asthma medication", cough, cough, cough - different story. China is PISSED and I

  • it does not mean that no one is following you.

  • Maybe it's time to invest in a nice little point-and-shoot camera with a large SD-Card? ;-)

    • Yes! I keep losing the micro cards.

    • Maybe it's time to invest in a nice little point-and-shoot camera with a large SD-Card? ;-)

      Not too (physically) large, so you can swallow it on the way out of the country ...

      • There is basic no way the Chinese government will take SD cards of foreigners, especially Olympic athletes when they leave.

        Don't want to comment further on this kind post but I have left and entered China with no digital device check.

        Personally I think people under credit China... If China wants to hack to hack your individual phone, they can likely do it no matter it enters China or not.

        The fact there is a GREAT is simple a measure China uses to stop people like the NSA from easily doing it to them in mass

    • Because they wonâ(TM)t compromise the card as a route to your PC when you get homeâ¦?

  • The real play is for China to get all the Athletes' DNA and digital access

  • Or, you know, have some knid of morality instead. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @12:25PM (#62167277) Journal

    and boycott. Fuck the CCP.

    • Indeed. Keep the athletes out of China, if they really believe that the problem is of such a magnitude, otherwise the message is still very mixed

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      We have to learn to get along with China; they are a big global economic player and are not going away any time soon. If we slight them, they have the power to slight back such that a tit-for-tat game is not worth it. I suspect eventually they will fall apart like the Soviet Union did, so the lesson of history is patience.

      (Arguably the Soviet Union is back in the form of Russia, but economically Russia is a piddly fraction of the Soviets; they are merely an asymmetric agitator.)

      That being said, we should wo

      • It's interesting you mention patience when dealing with China.

        First note, i am not saying you are wrong but China's advantage has been gained by thinking long term which requires patience.

        We basically have to accept in many ways China has been beating us at our own game and in turn, just as they gave, further change the rules of the game.

        However, how much this is necessary is up for debate. Maybe finding a certain middle ground is truly best in this modern world...

      • It isn't the 1990s anymore. We tried that. It made them worse. Bolder. Even more course. And very, very wealthy.

      • eventually they will fall apart like the Soviet Union

        Waiting for China to fall apart is like Marxists waiting for capitalism to collapse.

        Soviet union was an isolated bloody dictatorship that exhausted their money. They had a lot against them. China to the opposite is economically very successful, they have a wealthy middle class that is overall quite happy. As long as they have "bread and circuses", why would they ask for a new regime? I don't see what the path to falling apart would be. They can lose their leadership like Europe did and USA is likely to, but

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Zappy ( 7013 )

        We have to learn to get along with China;

        Nah, China needs to learn to get along with the rest of the world.

  • Why go then? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Wednesday January 12, 2022 @12:26PM (#62167283)
    Why are people having the Olympics in a country they can't trust their phones in? That's crazy.

    • Because it has very little to do with the Olympics. It has to do more with that almighty ad revenue and broadcast rights. Does NBC have exclusive broadcast rights again? Are gymnasts being declared the #GOAT and criticized while trying to address their mental health? The Olympics have had less and less to do with actual competition between the athletes and more about competition between the various entities that want a piece of that sweet, sweet Olympics revenue.

    • Why are people having the Olympics in a country they can't trust their phones in? That's crazy.

      Why is using your phone relevant to participating in a sporting contest? This isn't competitive texting.

    • Financial contracts and booty calls.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by slazzy ( 864185 )
      China would love to know how to get more gold metals... just saying

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by orlanz ( 882574 )

      While most countries will do a lot of research up front, and target high value personnel.... China has the resources to just shotgun it by the hip. And their corporations also engage in it. The average athelete may not know people, but you may find that one that knows someone or something valuable.

      What is being reported now was standard practice 15 years ago at our company. You had to lock your comp laptop in the US office and grab a clean build for your trip and only take files related to that particula

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dohzer ( 867770 )

      Let's ask the 'Olympic Athletes from Russia' and Putin what secrets they have (or maybe 'had' is a better word to use).

    • What secrets do the Dutch have that is worth stealing? Seriously.
  • No devices capable of data storage and retrieval (beyond, say, a four-funciton calculator with M+, M- and MR functionality). Incidentally, I'd recommend strongly against digital (or any form of) photographic camera. If it can store data, China may well find their classified data on it when you try to leave their wonderful, welcoming country. Just because you have no idea how you got pictures of a research facility won't change the fact that you have them, you know, and I don't hear good things about life

  • Really want to go with a USB killer inside a cell phone looking-shell. Teach them to not plug their devices into ports they do not know the origin of.

    Sorry CCP, my phone has AIDS and has ruined your expensive side-loading-piece-of-shit that you rudely thought would be compatible with my Super-capacity-discharging-usb-killer.

    Pricks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      Which, incidentally, would make you guilty of intentionally sabotaging Chinese law enforcement equipment. Congratulations! Your own country will gladly disavow any knowledge of your actions. Enjoy your new career as a convicted espionage - you now have guaranteed housing and food. When or how often you'll have access to either is not guaranteed, however.

    • Bad idea. Then you get charged with willful destruction of government property.

      The only way this would work if the majority of Athletes/Visitors did this -- but they are cowards so they won't.

      --
      Fuck [wikipedia.org] Communist China Propaganda.

      • This looks like an episode of "Good Idea: Bad Idea".

      • I don't have to maintain things for them. I don't use USB and decided to not keep it around.

        This is rejection of the idea I even have to have a phone with the following.

        1. A port that remotely looks like a usb port.
        2. If it is a port, it's one that speaks a protocol they hope I support.
        3. I do not have to keep any of these avenues open, if discovered, in the future.

        So I discovered they are abusing it. I removed it. Charge my ass.

        Again pricks.

  • It's time for the Olympic committee to take notice an exclude countries with governments such as China's from hosting Olympic events. China's government is completely counter the spirit of the Olympic ideal.

  • an unprecedented move to avoid Chinese espionage

    Nahj. This has been going on for over 20 years. Back in the 00s, NSA was warning businesses and government officials to NOT carry personal or regular company computers. In addition, there is to be no storage of passwords or anything that Chinese can and more importantly, will find important and will take.
    Also need to keep in mind that China will be listening in on communications by putting a virus on your laptop, if left in the hotel.

    One useful idea that we used was to take 2 laptops, where one will be

  • What do the Dutch have that is worth spying on? Red light district intel? Do the Chinese want to make a beer as good as Heineken?

    • What do the Dutch have that is worth spying on? Red light district intel? Do the Chinese want to make a beer as good as Heineken?

      Are you serious?

      The Dutch have one of the 20 biggest economies in the world, and are a major international trade and technology leader. Rotterdam is the biggest container port in Europe. The second closest isn't even that close in capacity. They have perhaps the most automated agriculture sector in the world, producing large amounts of food for export with robotic help. The have a huge energy industry. Phillips is one of the premier electronics companies in the globe. And they're one of Europe's big financi

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