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Piracy Data Storage

Is 'The NFT Bay' Just a Giant Hoax? (clubnft.com) 74

Posted by EditorDavid from the trillion-byte-letdown dept.
Recently Australian developer Geoffrey Huntley announced they'd created a 20-terabyte archive of all NFTs on the Ethereum and Solana blockchains.

But one NFT startup company now says they tried downloading the archive — and discovered most of it was zeroes. Many of the articles are careful to point out "we have not verified the contents of the torrent," because of course they couldn't. A 20TB torrent would take several days to download, necessitating a pretty beefy internet connection and more disk space to store than most people have at their disposal. We at ClubNFT fired up a massive AWS instance with 40TB of EBS disk space to attempt to download this, with a cost estimate of $10k-20k over the next month, as we saw this torrent as potentially an easy way to pre-seed our NFT storage efforts — not many people have these resources to devote to a single news story.

Fortunately, we can save you the trouble of downloading the entire torrent — all you need is about 10GB. Download the first 10GB of the torrent, plus the last block, and you can fill in all the rest with zeroes. In other words, it's empty; and no, Geoff did not actually download all the NFTs. Ironically, Geoff has archived all of the media articles about this and linked them on TheNFTBay's site, presumably to preserve an immutable record of the spread and success of his campaign — kinda like an NFT...

We were hoping this was real... [I]t is actually rather complicated to correctly download and secure the media for even a single NFT, nevermind trying to do it for every NFT ever made. This is why we were initially skeptical of Geoff's statements. But even if he had actually downloaded all the NFT media and made it available as a torrent, this would not have solved the problem... a torrent containing all the NFTs does nothing to actually make those NFTs available via IPFS, which is the network they must be present on in order for the NFTs to be visible on marketplaces and galleries....

[A]nd this is a bit in the weeds: in order to reupload an NFT's media to IPFS, you need more than just the media itself. In order to restore a file to IPFS so it can continue to be located by the original link embedded in the NFT, you must know exactly the settings used when that file was originally uploaded, and potentially even the exact version of the IPFS software used for the upload.

For these reasons and more, ClubNFT is working hard on an actual solution to ensure that everybody's NFTs can be safely secured by the collectors themselves. We look forward to providing more educational resources on these and other topics, and welcome the attention that others, like Geoff, bring to these important issues.
Their article was shared by a Slashdot reader (who is one of ClubNFT's three founders). I'd wondered suspiciously if ClubNFT was a hoax, but if this PR Newswire press release is legit, they've raised $3 million in seed funding. (And that does include an investment from Drapen Dragon, co-founded by Tim Draper which shows up on CrunchBase). The International Business Times has also covered ClubNFT, identifying it as a startup whose mission statement is "to build the next generation of NFT solutions to help collectors discover, protect, and share digital assets." Co-founder and CEO Jason Bailey said these next-generation tools are in their "discovery" phase, and one of the first set of tools that is designed to provide a backup solution for NFTs will roll out early next year. Speaking to International Business Times, Bailey said, "We are looking at early 2022 to roll out the backup solution. But between now and then we should be feeding (1,500 beta testers) valuable information about their wallets." Bailey says while doing the beta testing, he realized that there are loopholes in the NFT storage systems and only 40% of the NFTs were actually pointing to the IPFS, while 40% of them were at risk — pointing to private servers.

Here is the problem explained: NFTs are basically a collection of metadata, that define the underlying property that is owned. Just like in the world of internet documents, links point to the art and any details about it that are being stored. But links can break, or die. Many NFTs use a system called InterPlanetary File System, or IPFS, which let you find a piece of content as long as it is hosted somewhere on the IPFS network. Unlike in the world of internet domains, you don't need to own the domain to really make sure the data is safe. Explaining the problem which the backup tool will address, Bailey said, "When you upload an image to IPFS, it creates a cryptographic hash. And if someone ever stops paying to store that image on IPFS, as long as you have the original image, you can always restore it. That's why we're giving people the right to download the image.... [W]e're going to start with this protection tool solution that will allow people to click a button and download all the assets associated with their NFT collection and their wallet in the exact format that they would need it in to restore it back up to IPFS, should it ever disappear. And we're not going to charge any money for that."

The idea, he said, is that collectors should not have to trust any company; rather they can use ClubNFT's tool, whenever it becomes available, to download the files locally... "One of the things that we're doing early around that discovery process, we're building out a tool that looks in your wallet and can see who you collect, and then go a level deeper and see who they collect," Bailey said. Bailey said that the rest of the tools will process after gathering lessons based on user feedback on the first set of solutions. He, however, seemed positive that the talks of the next set of tools will begin in the Spring of next year as the company has laid a "general roadmap."
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Is 'The NFT Bay' Just a Giant Hoax? More

Is 'The NFT Bay' Just a Giant Hoax?

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  • Wit NFTs everythign is a hoax (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:28PM (#62005937)

    Or a scam. Well, the real money some people put in there is probably real. But that is it.

    • The NFT money laundering bubble already burst, so it is all moot anyway
    • NFTs are no different to the fiat currency we use daily. They promise value while completely lacking it. We just think both have value and through the process of trade we derive some value from both.
      • Conspiratorial value. Some things have the value that they do merely because we (the people) conspire together to value those things that way.

        Art is like that.
        Currency is not, unless you are an avid collector of rare bank notes.

        Art is a wonderful money laundering tool for the aspiring solo embezzler. Currency on the other hand is fungible and is the reason laundering is possible.
        NFT's are as good as art.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

        NFTs are no different to the fiat currency we use daily. They promise value while completely lacking it. We just think both have value and through the process of trade we derive some value from both.

        Not true. Fiat currency is backed by the various nations. If I were to take some of your fiat money I'd be in trouble. It's recognized.
        With this bitcoin stuff there is no guarantee at all. Who made it? We don't know. Who runs it? We're not sure. Where does the money go to? Who knows. If I were to steal your wallet what are you going to do about it? It's not real money. Would the cops even care? Especially if the guy that stole it is in China or Russia? You could wake up tomorrow and Bitcoin could be worthle

  • Austrian... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Briareos ( 21163 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:33PM (#62005945)

    It literally says "Kangaroo Island, Australia" on his GitHub profile [github.com], among other things...

  • Not a hoax ... just accurate. (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:39PM (#62005969)

    But one NFT startup company now says they tried downloading the archive — and discovered most of it was zeroes.

    It's just been encoded using the single digit representing the most accurate actual value of all those NFTs ...

    • But one NFT startup company now says they tried downloading the archive — and discovered most of it was zeroes.

      It's just been encoded using the single digit representing the most accurate actual value of all those NFTs ...

      And, on the up-side, it compresses *really* well, so you can easily store many copies.

      • And, on the up-side, it compresses *really* well, so you can easily store many copies.

        Wouldn't "ones" compress better? I mean, they're way skinnier, just look: 0 1

        No doubt you could fit way more of them side-by-side than zeroes.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pjt33 ( 739471 )

        Actually, the NFTs are stored by a kind of inverse run-length encoding. You take the NFT, interpret it as a binary number, and then you'll find a run of that many zeroes in the torrented file...

    • So this crook didnâ(TM)t even have the skillz to point the torrent at /dev /urandom

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I know you're making the joke, but I suspect most of those NFTs that were created were probably for junk.We know of a few "valuable" ones, but you can bet millions of people probably tried to get in on this by creating junk files full of zeros and making NFTs of them as well.

      A NFT is just a property record. As it records digital property, it's trivially easy to create "digital property" - just create a file.Any file. With random content. I wouldn't be surprised if 99.9999% of "digital property" recorded on

  • Doesn't matter if it's a scam or not- I'll laugh either way. It's hilarious on SOOOO many levels.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z80a ( 971949 )

      Are you talking about the torrent or NFT itself?

      • The whole idea that rich fucks who have no clue get duped into paying money for worthless tulips.

        The whole spiel is the epitome of the "a fool and his money" trope.

      • Are you talking about the torrent or NFT itself?

        All of it, the whole fucking thing is absolutely hilarious on every level.

        Watching goobers plow their money into this shit is funny, the idea itself is funny, and I am 100% positive that whatever happens next will also be funny. And if it becomes a real, established "thing", that will be even more hilarious.

        Like DWAC stock- it appeared, it shot up in 'value', the dumbfucks bought it, and then it promptly lost a huge chunk of its value, leaving them holding the (empty) bag. Totally hilarious and satisfying;

    • How about the taxes the fuckers who hide their wealth into those fake investment vehicles don't pay so that your kids don't get a good education and the roads you drive on to bring them to school every day are shot? Is it still hilarious?

      • How about the taxes the fuckers who hide their wealth into those fake investment vehicles don't pay so that your kids don't get a good education and the roads you drive on to bring them to school every day are shot? Is it still hilarious?

        Yes, it's even funnier when you look at it that way!

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @07:49PM (#62005989)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • It doesn't matter because... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:02PM (#62006005)

    ... the idea behind the NFT bay is correct. An NFT is a property record for something that can be obtained completely for free, following a link contained in the NFT. There is nothing exclusive from owning an NFT, *anyone* can follow the link (while it is not dead) and access the content. The content is not 'yours' anymore than 'mine'. This is the idea behind the NFT bay, and it is correct.

    All the comments in this story try to out-jargon this simple truth, to reinforce the idea that NFT are highly valuable "because blockchain", and you should put your money on them.

  • metahoax (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymouse Cowtard ( 6211666 ) on Saturday November 20, 2021 @08:04PM (#62006007) Homepage
    NFT Bay is a hoax, NFTs are a hoax. NFTS are paid for with hoax money. It's hoaxes all the way down.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Just because something is designed to lure in stupid people & profit from them doesn't make it a hoax.

  • It's a hoax, but due to a different reason. The whole point of web3 is that you're not able to just copy everything. That's why tokens can represent ownership. Now Geoffrey comes and copies (or did he not?) all web2 URLs from the web3 tokens. So what? It doesn't defeat any promise of web3. It just shows what everybody already knew: in web2 you can just copy everything.

  • I just picked up 140TB of storage for $2k

  • Evolved Apes, the GTA "remaster", and now this.

      It seems the hucksters are coming out of the woodwork now more than usual.

    • What do you consider usual? The dotcom era was filled with exciting digital fraud, as was the housing market collapse. I'd suspect we're due.

  • If you want to keep that content alive forever, just fucking pin it. That's the point of IPFS.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I mean, the solution is obvious, I don't understand why you think we need more centralized horseshit to make it better. I respect your right to hustle, but there's no added value here.
        • And for that reason I'm out. #MarkCuban #SharkTank
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • It's really not so much a hustle as a service we are trying to provide to the community to help eliminate the reliance on third parties (i.e. marketplaces) to pin your content for you,

            In that case just pin that shit and shut the fuck up.

            But no, you clearly have a hustle in mind, and again... That's ok. I have no problem with you working an angle and trying to make a few bucks. I just don't appreciate where you try to convince us you're fucking Mother Teresa while you are just another startup trying to get rich off the backs of normal folks (as well as yes some douchebag financial assholes). Own your actual shit.

  • [I]t is actually rather complicated to correctly download and secure the media for even a single NFT

    NFT Bay may be clowning the media, but this is also not true.

  • Well, duh? (Score:3)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday November 21, 2021 @06:12AM (#62006891)

    Care to point to something dealing with NFT that isn't a hoax or scam?

  • Pirate Bay: one torrent per file, or one torrent per season of a TV show. You generally download every file in the torrent.

    NFT Bay: one torrent for the entire 20 TB archive. If you want a partial download, have fun unchecking 10^6 checkboxes in your torrent client.

  • ClubNFT fired up a massive AWS instance with 40TB of EBS disk space to attempt to download this, with a cost estimate of $10k-20k over the next month

    with the exception of you might not need that space again for quite a lot less you can buy a NAS server $3-5k depending on drives and brand with a lot more more than 40TB and the download rate being the main limitation 40TB would take about a month on a 100mbps connection I can get Business connection 10 times faster for about $300/month so other than instant convenience maybe it could be done cheaper

  • "they'd"? Is Geoffrey Huntley a group of people?

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