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The Courts

Dell Hit With Fraud Case Over Alienware Area-51m Upgrade Claims (tomshardware.com) 43

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
A California man has filed for a class action lawsuit against PC manufacturer Dell, claiming that the company "intentionally misled and deceived" buyers of its Alienware Area 51-m R1 gaming laptop, which was advertised to be more upgradeable than other gaming notebooks. From a report: The plaintiff, Robert Felter, who is based in San Francisco, alleges that Dell misleads customers to believe that the laptop would be upgradeable, possibly into future generations of components. The case, Felter v. Dell Technologies, Inc. (3:21-cv-04187) has been filed with the United States District Court in the Northern District of California. The Alienware Area 51-m was announced at CES 2019 and launched soon after. (The complaint claims the announcement was made in the summer of 2019, which is incorrect.). Among the Area 51-m's biggest touted innovations were a user-replaceable CPU and GPU.

At media briefings, Alienware representatives told the press that the CPU could be upgraded as long as it used Intel's Z390 chipset. The laptop used Intel's 9th Gen Core desktop processors, up to the Intel Core i9-9900K. Dell developed separate proprietary Dell Graphics Form Factor (DGFF) modules for the Nvidia graphics. The lawsuit, however, claims that consumers were told that "core components" (meaning the CPU and GPU) could be replaced beyond the current generation of hardware. "Dell's advertisement to the public didn't place any restrictions on the upgradeability of the laptop," lawyer David W. Kani said in an email to Tom's Hardware. "They also never disclosed that those with the highest spec CPU and/or GPU that their device would not be upgradeable."
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Dell Hit With Fraud Case Over Alienware Area-51m Upgrade Claims More

Dell Hit With Fraud Case Over Alienware Area-51m Upgrade Claims

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  • This is about Intel chips, and for the most part, you need a new motherboard for a new generation of CPU, even when there is no good reason for that limitation.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Technically since Dell manufacture the whole laptop, there's no reason they couldn't make the next version use a physically compatible motherboard. In that respect it would not be much different from a desktop, swap out the motherboard for a newer one. Aside from the CPU which would likely be tied to the board, you could probably reuse everything else.
      Lots of people build desktops like this, gradually replacing parts over time as they become outdated or fail.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by vivian ( 156520 )

          The Pentium II series worked like this - with the CPU, L2 cache and some supporting components on a small daughter board with an edge connector that plugged into a slot type connector on the motherboard.

          I'd love it if there was a standard spec laptop case design that mobo manufacturers could agree on because it does seem like a hell of a waste ditching the perfectly good screen, keyboard, speakers and case just because the current mobo, cpu and ram are and overdue for an update. I generally upgrade the SSD

          • It's been tried before and is being tried again

            https://www.pcmag.com/news/a-f... [pcmag.com]

            Personally I think Apple has gone way too far but the Alienware level of upgradeability is about the most for which there is a market. Power and cooling demands change, form factors of different parts change, e.g. the rapid demise of the 2.5" drive bay in favor of M.2 which is smaller, or the increasing size and power of GPUs relative to CPUs.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          Well cpus already plug into motherboards via a socket, changing that socket to an edge connector doesn't really achieve much other than increase costs.
          At some point there are practical limits to how far you can upgrade the cpu, while amd fares better than intel you still reach a point where an upgraded cpu would be bottlenecked by the ram or pci lanes etc.
          The most practical thing to do then, is have laptops where the motherboard form factor remains the same through several generations even if the components

  • Yawn (Score:2, Insightful)

    by theshowmecanuck ( 703852 )
    Stupid consumer, ambulance chasing lawyers.... news at 11.
    • In other news, man loses touch with reality after watching too many reruns of The Big Bang Theory.

    • Re:Yawn (Score:4, Interesting)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:35PM (#61454298)
      From my perspective those claims were going to get Dell in trouble sooner or later. As tech nerds, we know the impracticalities of laptop upgrades; however, Dell sells computers to the average consumer who does not know of these impracticalities. Marketing them with "unprecedented upgradability" claims to the average consumer when they were not really upgradeable was a lawsuit waiting to happen. Someone at Dell Marketing should have been fired as soon as they made those claims.

    • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Funny)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:37PM (#61454306)

      I hope he enjoys his $10 Dell discount coupon as compensation.

    • Re:Yawn (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ehrichweiss ( 706417 ) * on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:38PM (#61454312)

      No, Dell have a severe problem with fraud. Back probably 10 years ago I bought a Dell Studio 15 and I specifically picked out the one I wanted for the virtualization technology. Then for THREE freakin' years I kept having horrific crashes and couldn't get a single VM to boot for any period of time. Then came the truth of the matter. Even though Dell had specifically advertised it as having virtualization, and there was a toggle for it in the BIOS, they had cut off that ability entirely and had zero plans on telling everyone and since it was far too late to sue them for it I was stuck with an overpriced POS. I didn't even find that out from Dell directly, I had to search on some forum and found where someone had discovered it. I have never bought a Dell product since and never will. I will spend more and put up with more BS just to avoid their scammy behavior.

      • VMware workstation worked completely fine before Intel's virtualization extensions were a thing. Assuming that's what you are even taking about because if your VM software required the virtualization extensions it would either work or not, not something in between?

        Saying Dell committed fraud because free VM software like VirtualBox or the Windows hypervisor crap didn't run on your Core 2 is pretty weak.

        • Also the set of virtualization extensions on CPU's has been constantly evolving since 2006

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        • Re: Yawn (Score:4, Insightful)

          by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @03:34PM (#61455068)

          Saying Dell committed fraud because free VM software like VirtualBox or the Windows hypervisor crap didn't run on your Core 2 is pretty weak.

          Sounds like he was saying Dell advertised something with virtualisation extensions which had been silently disabled in the background. Dell has a long sorry history of gimping products unnecessarily to the point where I happily yawn and take the OP's comment completely at face value and highly doubt that he simply couldn't figure out how to get VMware runnning.

          Also no shit virtualisation has been evolving, but each time it has done so with very specific changes and virtualisation software has universally been backwards compatible.

          VMware workstation worked completely fine before Intel's virtualization extensions were a thing.

          I want to address this one last because that has to be the dumbest fucking comment of the day (and there's a Trump story on the front page). No one gives a shit if something works. The OP is attempting to use ${feature}, and since ${feature} didn't work that's the end of it. Justifying it by saying simply don't use it has to be the most egregious case of corporate cocksucking I've seen in a while. I'm going to burn some karma her but let me be clear, I can't get over how fucking stupid your comment is.

          • Ooof. If I expected that to get modded up I wouldn't have used that language. I hope my mother doesn't read Slashdot. XD

        • It might not have worked at all but I kept thinking that it'd startup but then would crash long before I'd see a splash screen. It's been at least 10 years ago so I might be misremembering whether it started.

          Note, I didn't say that Dell committed fraud because the software didn't run. I said they committed fraud because they disabled the extensions they specifically said were working and then covered that up for 3 years. That's putting words in my mouth and doesn't make your case.

      • Dell, in my opinion, is always a brand to avoid. Too many weird proprietary things going on inside, generally under-powered, and loaded with bloat-ware. Just search Youtube for Dell reviews and you'll see the shenanigans that Dell pulls, not only with the hardware and software, but also the secret costs added to your bill after the fact. Very old Dells (386 and 486 era) were well built and a solid choice, but some time after that Micheal must have started smoking the weed, "Dude, you're getting a Dell".

        • generally under-powered

          So, for example, a ~4GHz chip runs at 3.8? 500 watts is, in fact, 450?? I'm guessing you'll be unable to clearly define your use of the word.

      • 10 years ago? Man Dell has a severe problem with fraud today. Such as offering a "free" tier of support and a $10/month tier (the latter of which is buried at the very bottom of the order and opt out, and not at all made obvious). Better still when you remove the $10/month tier the cost of the device goes up because someone has to pay for "free" right.

        How these fuckers haven't been sued into oblivion is beyond me.

  • Practical computer upgradability is a myth. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:22PM (#61454258)

    Being that computers advance so fast, that normally when something sufficiently better is out it is no longer compatible with the current computer.

    I had a 468DX 50 MHZ. Which I had for about 5 years. Over that time the following upgrades were made to it. I had added an additional 1Gig drive, increased the Ram with an additional 16 Megs of RAM (24 megs total), added a CD-ROM and sound card, and replaced many modems as they would fail on me quite often, as during that time I couldn't find a surge protector that you can put your phone line in. I wouldn't say they were Upgrades, but just add-ons. However after the 5 years, I needed to get a new computer, as very little I could move over except for the new Add-ons that I got for the 486. I needed a new Power Supply, Motherboard, new high speed RAM, Video Card... )
    While the 468 had a Socket-ed CPU, the best I could do is go to a 66mhz DX2 as the motherboard was nearly peaked at its clock speed. RAM types have been changing over the years, and old technology like ISA Slots, and IDE Connectors have gone away.... Even USB-A, VGA, and Wired networking is going away too.

    Being able to upgrade your computer probably should be the least of your concerns, and you probably should try to get on leading edge enough to last you the duration.

    • Did you ever upgrade to a 486? xD

    • Re:Practical computer upgradability is a myth. (Score:4, Informative)

      by Tx ( 96709 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:40PM (#61454324) Journal

      Slightly disagree. In the context of gaming which we're talking about here, the most important component is the GPU, and upgrading the GPU is definitely not a myth for desktop rigs. A five year old mid-range rig with a new GPU today is capable of running current games quite well. Secondly if you choose your chipset well, when its at the start of its cycle, you should get at least one significant CPU upgrade in before needing a new mobo.

      • But is a a huge waste of money to buy every single generation. You can upgrade your CPU 1 generation later, half the time. But their is little advantage to upgrading a cpu more than once a decade for most workloads.

    • My own experience, has been the only thing that tends to be upgradable is the ram or the hard drive--and even then it's a crap shoot?

      For instance one of the laptops I bought a few years ago (Sager branded using a CLEVO based motherboard) used a 64 bit CPU, BUT would only support a maximum of EIGHT gigs of ram (2x4gig)---even though the ram sticks available when I had looked would have allowed me to kick it up to 32 gigs.

      For me however, my biggest gripe has to be the shoddy nature of the laptop keyboards and

    • I had a 486 SX 25, it was soldered to the motherboard with the overdrive socket right next to it. It had no need for a heat sink.

      It was one of only two computers where I have ever upgraded just the CPU, I added the dx2 66 overdrive. Not only clocking the cpu faster but you got to 66 by moving a motherboard jumper to up the bus speed from 25 to 33. Woohoo! It had a heatsink, and the next option up, a dx4 which I don't remember as compatible with my MB had a fan - I thought at the time a fan is just a stup

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jmke ( 776334 )
      "Being that computers advance so fast" advanced past tense. the period you're talking about with the 386/486 had a new CPU release every few months which gave you a 20-30% performance boost, the difference between 486 high end and entry level pentium was huge. Intel 486DX4 100 https://hwbot.org/submission/9... [hwbot.org] First Pentium at 60Mhz https://hwbot.org/submission/4... [hwbot.org] CPU performance has stagnated, memory performance has stagnated, for a long time hard drive stagnated until SSDs were released to the

  • Apparently Dells selling practices are really bad (Score:4, Informative)

    by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @12:46PM (#61454354)

    In the latest secret shopper video series on gaming PCs on Linus tech tips channel they declined extended varranty three times during the call and still ended up with one..

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fazig ( 2909523 )
      I strongly recommend to also give Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed on youtube a try.
      While of course not perfect, they do provide some more technical data that nerds like us crave. Well, at least it makes me more comfortable trusting the provided information.

      Gamers Nexus had some takes on current Dell shenanigans.
      https://youtu.be/4DMg6hUudHE [youtu.be] and https://youtu.be/5N7aYtkzKJc [youtu.be]

    • Gamers Nexus declined the extended warranty only to get told that he would be charged extra for the "free" tier.

  • Dell Hit With Fraud Case ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Friday June 04, 2021 @01:08PM (#61454480)

    Dell Hit With Fraud Case Over Alienware Area-51m Upgrade Claims

    What? Did they forget to put a 'Alienware is a brand of the Dell Corporation, this product does not include actual space alien technology' disclaimer on the box?

    • If you read the summary, Alienware marketed their laptop with "unprecedented upgradeability" when it really cannot be upgraded. From what I read Dell meant users would have to replace MB to upgrade the CPU and that was if Dell made a new MB for the laptop.

      • If you read the summary, Alienware marketed their laptop with "unprecedented upgradeability" when it really cannot be upgraded. From what I read Dell meant users would have to replace MB to upgrade the CPU and that was if Dell made a new MB for the laptop.

        Right, so given the brand name and "unprecedented upgradeability" statement people probably expected upgraded hardware to be teleported into their computers. I can see how they'd be disappointed.

        • No one was expecting magic unlike what you suggest; however, marketing a laptop to the average consumer, Dell should know better than to use confusing language. As it appears you did not read the article, the laptops were launched early 2019 but by 2020 Dell admitted that the CPUs in the 51m laptop could not be upgraded past 9th gen. Here’s the problem: Intel's CPU roadmap was clear that 2019 was the end of 9th gen. Dell did not disclose this to the average consumer who purchased the laptop in 2019: "

  • Should have bought a MacBook instead.

  • Dell rips off all of their customers and has extremely sleazy business practices. That's a fairly widely known fact.

    Here's a recent review of the $750 to $900 Dell G5 5000 gaming system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    Granted, it's not a laptop, but shows how shoddy and sleazy Dell is in a mere 30 minutes.

    • Yep, I just recently watched this series and Dell came out looking very, very bad. Like you said, those of us "in the know" already knew this as fact for some time now. I'm glad more reviewers are pointing out Dell's sleaze. It's always best to build a computer yourself. If you are not comfortable doing that find someone in your community that can build one for you. I charge $50 to anyone in my community to build and configure a system for them. They buy the parts I recommend, I build the system for them. $

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