Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Amazon Wage War on Gadget Right-to-Repair Laws (bloomberg.com) 64
For years, technology companies have imposed strict limits on who can fix chipped iPhones, broken game consoles and a wealth of other non-working (or defective) gadgets. From a report: Components are kept in short supply or simply not shared with independent shops to mend things like USB ports and batteries. After seeing these restrictions firsthand, Millman [anecdote in the story, who runs a repair shop in New York] joined a cadre of small business owners, hobbyists and activists pushing right-to-repair bills across the country. These measures are designed to undo rules businesses set to restrict repairs to authorized providers for a vast range of products from a Kindle to a wheelchair.
Twenty-seven states considered such bills in 2021. More than half have already been voted down or dismissed, according to consumer groups tracking the proposals. To advocates of these bills, the current repair system is a major reason why we cycle through personal devices so quickly, furthering the environmental impact of these gadgets. [...] One reason these legislative efforts have failed is the opposition, which happens to sell boatloads of new devices every year. Microsoft's top lawyer advocated against a repair bill in its home state. Lobbyists for Google and Amazon.com swooped into Colorado this year to help quash a proposal. Trade groups representing Apple successfully buried a version in Nevada. Telecoms, home appliance firms and medical companies also opposed the measures, but few have the lobbying muscle and cash of these technology giants. While tech companies face high-profile scrutiny in Washington, they quietly wield power in statehouses to shape public policy and stamp out unwelcome laws.
Twenty-seven states considered such bills in 2021. More than half have already been voted down or dismissed, according to consumer groups tracking the proposals. To advocates of these bills, the current repair system is a major reason why we cycle through personal devices so quickly, furthering the environmental impact of these gadgets. [...] One reason these legislative efforts have failed is the opposition, which happens to sell boatloads of new devices every year. Microsoft's top lawyer advocated against a repair bill in its home state. Lobbyists for Google and Amazon.com swooped into Colorado this year to help quash a proposal. Trade groups representing Apple successfully buried a version in Nevada. Telecoms, home appliance firms and medical companies also opposed the measures, but few have the lobbying muscle and cash of these technology giants. While tech companies face high-profile scrutiny in Washington, they quietly wield power in statehouses to shape public policy and stamp out unwelcome laws.
We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:5, Insightful)
...we need mandated software support for a certain period of time past last-sale.
Perfectly functonal devices are rendered unusable because manufacturers refuse to maintain the software on the devices they sell. We need manufacturers to be required to provide software updates and support for the duration of a reasonable physical life-expectancy of the device. From my point of view, for a cell phone that period should be something like five years after date of end-of-sale.
Re: We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:2)
Re:We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:4, Informative)
It sounds like you're defending the throw-it-away culture we have. Buy a product then keep it for as long as you can, and do not buy a new one every one to two years. Yes, that company will get more money, but they get that money from *you*. These are the western world's oligarchs, with powers to buy and sell governments and make their own rules, they don't need to be defended.
20% more cost to use the phone 5 years long? Sounds like a bargain. 20% more so that there are replacable batteries in MacBooks is a bargain (the reason most of them at work get replaced is swelling batteries that can't be replaced). If you're talking Apple products, then they already charge you 20% more for the brand. Amazon is already an upper tier brand for those with extra cash.
For my iphone, it could easily last 5 more years, except that it's difficult to charge. The only fix I would need is to replace the lightning connector (which is also failing on the ipad). But you can't easily replace it because the whole thing is epoxied together and not intended in any way to be fixed, it is intended only to be replaced with newer models (or in my case, from other companies).
Probably Anonymous Coward is too young. But there was a time when saving money was considered a good thing. Conspicuous consumption was out there of course but it was mostly in the wealthy neighborhoods and no one really like socializing with them when all they would do is talk about their new stuff. Instead you'd repair your TV, or hire someone to repair it. This was not just some odd job done in a back alley found only in a major metropolis, every town would have TV and radio repair people, many of them sponsored by major television manufacturers. It was a viable middle class career. We had typewriter repair also, musical instrument repair, jewelry repair, you could even find people to repair pots and pans if needed. Stuff that you purchased was intended to last for a very long time, because that's just how things were and it was better to save money than to throw it away on shoddy goods.
Re:We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:4, Interesting)
In some cases, repair was a great equalizer. Many people who couldn't afford new or just didn't have money to burn ended up finding good stuff on the curb in the conspicuous consumer neighborhoods and fixing it at a small cost.
The TV repairman would even make house calls if your set was too heavy to easily bring in. Often he would fix it on the spot, but if not he could take it to his shop and bring it back in a week or so. It cost a fraction of the cost of a new one and would last for years after that.
I get that TVs cost a lot less new now, so housecalls might not be practical but they're also a lot easier to load into your car now. It may not be practical to do board level repairs, but board swapping and backlight replacement make sense.
Housecalls still make sense for major appliances. In many cases the ability of individual owners to order parts would also make a lot of sense, they're just not that complicated.
Re: We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
That would probably raise the average cost of a cell phone by something like 20%. If you're OK with that, then let's go!
If the additional cost is that little, I'm in!
Re: (Score:2)
He still is.
Repair away!
Re: (Score:1)
That would probably raise the average cost of a cell phone by something like 20%
Nah, they could clean the microscope off after each insertion, it wouldn’t raise the price by 20%.
Re: We need more than right-to-repair... (Score:2)
OK FAANG
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I want to take this a step further.
We should only offer Intellectual Property protection for those products whose specifications - including all hardware, firmware, and software (including APIs, etc.) - are published within a certain period. This is how patents are supposed to work already.
This way once the "official" support for the product ends, the market has ample resources to continue support itself, and time to ramp up.
You don't want to share your specs? Then you don't get copyright, trademark, or pa
Re: (Score:2)
In the case of phones, they're mostly based on Android anyway. If they didn't lock down the boot loader and treat the drivers/HAL like they were the nuclear launch codes, continuing community support would be easy.
Re: (Score:1)
In the case of phones, they're mostly based on Android anyway. If they didn't lock down the boot loader and treat the drivers/HAL like they were the nuclear launch codes, continuing community support would be easy.
But... but... Security! If it was easy to unlock bootloaders, miscreants could install malware on your device! Your data won't be safe! Because we all know there's no OTHER vector for malware to get on devices, and because we all know there's no way to make it so unlocking the bootloader requires signing into the device and going through some steps that can't be easily automated, and maybe requires a full wipe... No, the big concern here is that people might REMOVE the malware the device shipped with, or
Re: (Score:1)
But Democracy is the bestest most awesomist thing ever! I’m ever so certain that the good intelligent people of merca are going to vote out these politicians who do the bidding of non-resident corporations over their own citizens.
This stuff isn’t “right to repair”, it’s a basic private property issue. Do you own what you pay for or can they really de facto own it forever because it won’t run without code and their licensing scheme that goes with it? I mean, if you buy it
Er what? (Score:2)
Components are kept in short supply or simply not shared with independent shops to mend things like USB ports and batteries.
I am not sure what this means. USB ports have been easy to get. Replacing a USB port may involve some skill with soldering though. As for batteries that depends on the exact battery. Newer smartphone batteries have more authentication requirements these days so you cannot get any battery that might match power/size specs. Both repairs are not something the average consumer can do.
Re: Er what? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have a look at instructions for opening an iPhone [youtube.com]. You'll need one or two special screwdrivers a hotpack and a couple spudgers at least.
Compare that with the old days of remove 4 to 6 screws.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Replacing a USB port requires soldering skill. What evil barrier are you saying exists to prevent this?
Parts that only exist to make repairing more difficult for the owner, so Apple can stand before a judge and say “b-b-but they’re hard to repair. They’re so HARD to repair! I just don’t think a mere mortal could do it judge! They’re SO HARD to repair! Don’t let them own it, please? Let us sell it, but keep using it to make money for us, without providing consideration l
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Er what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Adding authentication protocols to batteries is egregious bullshit to begin with. Oh sure, the manufacturers can make up garbage about unauthentic batteries ruining performance expectations, but if a person that owns the device just wants a cheapo battery to power up off-the-grid for a few moments here or there why not allow them the option of going cheap? I'm sorry, us purchasing a device should not be an eternal shackle to the device's manufacturer for all possible updates/upgrades/repairs. That wasn't a thing thirty years ago, and I don't understand why so many consumers are fine with it being a thing today.
Granted, we're fast approaching the point where people believe even physical objects you purchase are only "licensed" to the end user and are actually owned by the manufacturer because that's what the manufacturer's want them to believe, so I realize I'm essentially screaming into the wind when I tell the truth on this subject. I just think it's utterly ridiculous where we're landing on nearly every, single subject. It's all about corporate profit. Profit over usability. Profit over reparability. Profit over environmental concerns. Profit over reasonable life expectancy.
The holy profit shall not be questioned. So sayeth we all.
Re: (Score:1)
Because so many of them aren't much older than thirty years old. To them it is normal and the abusers in power are cultivating this, even inventing a bogus concept of people who are older misremembering the past to have been better than it actually was. The proof? Their phacked statistics showing something contrary to what the actual witnesses experienced.
Re: (Score:3)
> but if a person that owns the device just wants a cheapo battery to power up off-the-grid for a few moments here or there why not allow them the option of going cheap?
I'm all for fighting knock-offs. The batteries can have authentication protocols, but if it fails it should just have menu you can check that says "battery not authentic", but still run.
Anyone that wants an authentic battery gets it and doesn't get ripped off, people that don't get what they pay for.
Re: (Score:3)
Adding authentication protocols to batteries is egregious bullshit to begin with. Oh sure, the manufacturers can make up garbage about unauthentic batteries ruining performance expectations, but if a person that owns the device just wants a cheapo battery to power up off-the-grid for a few moments here or there why not allow them the option of going cheap?
You want to all but guarantee that some cheap ass puts a shitty exploding battery made in BlackMarketstan in the cargo hold of the next plane you're on, taking you to your fiery death?
Because that's how you take yourself to a fiery death.
The holy profit shall not be questioned. So sayeth we all.
So sayeth the stupid people. Yes, the concept of ownership is dying. Sadly, I fear the society of today is welcoming this because they either can't, or don't want to handle the alternative of holding responsibility with ownership. "That's what I pay you for."
And we're ne
why are exploding batteries allowed AT ALL? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It is insane that lithium batteries are allowed in products at all. Even the high quality ones eventually fail and puff up if used for a long time. How many people have these little time bombs ticking in their basement or closet?
Lithium batteries. Can't wait for it to become the new asbestos when buying homes.
Fun times.
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the explody phone batteries have been OEM parts fresh from the factory. I haven't heard of many cheap batteries exploding. Sure, lots of them have less than the advertised capacity and die within 50 charge cycles, but even those don't explode much.
If explody phones were likely to bring a plane down, the Galaxy Notes would have done it at least once.
Re: (Score:2)
The holy profit shall not be questioned. So sayeth we all.
Which Ferengi "Rule of Acquisition" was that? I forget..
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, they also ignore that if the OEM parts were readily available and at a reasonable price, many people would choose them over the cheapo no-name crap. They also don't want to admit that some of the replacement parts are BETTER than the OEM part. Some of the gray market parts are actually the OEM part without the expensive logo stamped on them, produced at the same factory that makes the OEM part.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
It isn't just about swapping a battery, all the technology that goes into making and fabricating the device should ultimately being made into consumerized packages with a nice race to the bottom on pricing. In this way older models can be kept working or upgraded.
Re: (Score:2)
That isn't going to help you replace or diagnose chips or components on the boards or make a new thin film cable, etch a new board that supports an upgrade to keep the device working or mold a new project case.
And what does that have to do with 1) USB ports not available or 2) tools are not accessible. Diagnosing component failures on a board is not something the average consumer can do. Even fewer have the skills to know how to replace said components.
It isn't just about swapping a battery, all the technology that goes into making and fabricating the device should ultimately being made into consumerized packages with a nice race to the bottom on pricing. In this way older models can be kept working or upgraded.
None of this answers my original question. The article stated that USB ports were hard to get. Considering I can get some delivered via Amazon in a few days, I am not sure what they are talking about.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
My commentary wasn't related to USB ports. You continue to inject the skill of the average consumer as if it is relevant to the topic at hand and I'm point out it isn't.
Re: (Score:2)
Granted the tools are not something you can always buy in a BestBuy or Home Depot.
Try Harbor Freight.. They have everything..
Re: (Score:2)
Small phillips screwdrivers are quite common. Pentalobe OTOH is only needed for Apple.
Going with pentalobe rather than phillips on the iPhone may not have been that effective at keeping people out for long, but that was the intent and it was certainly a dick move.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Torx might, pentalobe is just a dick move to require a tool they're guessing you don't have. Then on the 7, they require 2 specialized screwdrivers. Meanwhile, small phillips screws don't strip if you use the correct screwdriver correctly.
But if you're really concerned about stripping, go with a simple slot. Harder to engage well, but it cuts less material out of the head, allowing it to be stronger.
Re: (Score:3)
Its an oversimplification by a journalist who didn't fully research or comprehend the topic. In most of these cases what happens is you Apples and Dells of the world will contract with a vendor who sells ICs like USB muxers and the like, tell them to build a slightly different model to an existing product and then pay them off to prevent it from being sold on the open market. That way when a chip fails, the owner cant replace the defective part and must deal on the manufacturer's terms.
Re:Er what? (Score:4, Funny)
> I am not sure what this means. USB ports have been easy to get. Replacing a USB port may involve some skill with soldering though.
I'm not sure but these unknowing fools seem to be complaining for the sake of complaining. When my phones screen protector started getting swirl marks I replaced it myself. Also, the gas levels in my car were getting low so I checked the owners manual and right there: "instructions on how to fill the tank". So don't tell me people can't do repairs. It's just a matter of RTFM.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The battery shouldn't need to authenticate. It can prove that it's a battery by providing power.
Many consumers could manage those repairs. All of them could manage to take the phone to a little shop that has no interest in upselling them to a new phone.
Now, try to source the fingerprint scanner/home button. These days, fingerprint scanners are easy enough to get, but getting the exact one that will fit the phone is made deliberately hard. Just in case someone manages it, the firmware will reject it because
Re: (Score:1)
Both repairs are not something the average consumer can do.
Right, but the consumer paid for it. They purchased the hardware.
The lady next door got a brand new Dell computer running Windows 10. This woman is dumb as a post, and that’s an insult to posts. I guarantee you that she’s going to have a thick layer of white are on there before the the weekend is out. Can I go over and do what I want in her computer, even when she’d rather I not?
Probably not legally.
Why?
Because it’s her fu
Right to repair is needed (Score:2)
The true face of multinationals (Score:4, Insightful)
Video consoles (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
If the manu
Re: (Score:2)
I also get that when those repairs go bad, it is not the third party that the consumer is going to hold responsible.
Come again? I don't think anybody would blame Apple for not honoring a warranty when a non-authorized (meaning they hadn't gone through Apple's training and were certified) third party opened the device and replaced the battery or the screen.
Re: (Score:2)
I also get that when those repairs go bad, it is not the third party that the consumer is going to hold responsible.
Really? I guess the culture in my country is different. Here it's usually "you touch it, you own it". (extreme example) Replace the battery in a laptop and now you have to explain that this has nothing to do with the printer of the client jamming more frequently. "But it was OK with the old battery".
If I take my car to a mechanic and get it back worse, I'm going to hold the mechanic responsible (and partly myself for not choosing a mechanic who knows what he's doing).
Re: (Score:2)
If you take your car to the mechanic to repair the transmission, come home and find your sun visor is loose-- good luck trying to blame that on him.
Re: (Score:2)
Some people would try that I think. I wouldn't.
But at the same time, if the mechanic did not break the visor, then he didn't, it just broke on its own I guess.
This needs to go to SCOTUS. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Trump appointed some of the right sort but we don't want any of the sort who are just fine with rights being stripped from the masses as long as it is some corporate entity accumulating power.
MAGA? (Score:2)
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon?
Is this a obscure Trump reference?
Re: (Score:2)
Make Apple Google Again
If someone told me (Score:1)
If someone told me "To help the environment, we have to make what you produce at work last a bit longer, hence you won't have to produce as much, hence a paycut a few hundred a month for the forseeable future". I'd be fairly annoyed, wouldn't like it at all. Being annoyed to a little guy like myself, on scale of Google/Apple/Microsoft/Amazon, translates into parachuting a team of lobbyists to remove the inconvenience. Which is kind of expected.
Standard form factors facilitate repair (Score:3)
That's why manufacturers prefer to avoid them and will continue to use them to provide some de-facto vendor lock.
Standard desktop motherboard form factors have no analog elsewhere and any attempt to incentivize them elsewhere will be met with successful industry resistance.
I agree with right to repair. (Score:1)
I think all CPUs should be printed at a scale that lets me solder paths if something burns out. I know there's a lot of transistors in there, but if I had a box of them on the shelf I could self-server for a very long time.
Existing Laws (Score:1)
Like Moss-Magnuson are rarely enforced, but when a peasant “breaks a law”, we’re all outraged when they go unpunished.
Hobbyists do not... (Score:3)
This is the wrong platform to point this out and I'm gonna get downloaded instantly, but here goes:
If auto enthusiasts from the 1950s had their say, there wouldn't a single computer chip in a modern car since those require specialized equipment to service. Emmissions would be through the roof. Catalytic converters would last 15,000 miles before getting coked up because most people couldn't possible adjust car timing manually even if it was possible. Cars would be easy to repair by an owner, but they would be twice the weight and still get 10 miles to the gallon. They wouldn't have any crumple zones. Those are impossible to repair. Crashes would be more deadly.
Similar for computers and cell phones. You think today's devices are unreliable? I want some of whatever you're smoking. No, scratch that. I prefer reality. My iMac is over 10 years old and still my main computer. Added an SSD (still possible with today's "unupgradeable" devices) and it's quite snappy. My iPhone is 2014 vintage and going strong. All I did was pay a shop to replace the battery once. My "unrepairable headphones" are bluetooth and noise cancelling, they only weigh a few hundred grams, and are over 5 years old. When this stuff breaks, boo hoo I really did get a lot of time from them. Time to replace them. And my story isn't all that uncommon. The people who get 2 years of use on their cell phones are "latest model chasing", abusing their phones, or buying the cheapest of the cheap. Fine, but we don't need to remake the industry for that type.
I don't want my headphones to cause neck strain, I don't want my computer box to weight 25 pounds, consume 500 watts and be as noisy as a house fan. I had that in college way back when. It was user-serviceable, and BOY THOSE OLD TIMES WEREN'T ALL THAT GOOD. It also cost 1500 dollars back when 1500 bucks was the equivalent of 3000 dollars today. I'll take a 1400 dollar iMac any day of the week. When it breaks I can pay a repair shop a few hundred to fix, or it can be recycled and replaced.
These right to repair laws cater to a very small slice of the population. I was a hobbyist once, so I get it. But they don't really benefit the rest of us. Most of them shouldn't pass.