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The Courts

Snapchat Can Be Sued Over Role In Fatal Car Crash, Court Rules (npr.org) 215

An anonymous reader shares a report: Three young men got into a car in Walworth County, Wis., in May 2017. They were set on driving at rapid speeds down a long, cornfield-lined road -- and sharing their escapade on social media. As the 17-year-old behind the wheel accelerated to 123 miles per hour, one of the passengers opened Snapchat. His parents say their son wanted to capture the experience using an app feature -- the controversial "speed filter" -- that documents real-life speed, hoping for engagement and attention from followers on the messaging app. It was one of the last things the trio did before the vehicle ran off the road and crashed into a tree, killing all of them. Was Snapchat partially to blame? The boys' parents think so. And, in a surprise decision on Tuesday, a federal appeals court ordered that the parents should have the right to sue Snap.

The ruling, from a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, has set off intense debate among legal watchers about the future of a decades-old law that has shielded tech companies from civil lawsuits. The boys' parents sued Snap, the maker of Snapchat, after the tragedy. They alleged that the company "knowingly created a dangerous game" through its filter and bore some responsibility. The district court responded how courts usually do when a tech platform is sued in a civil lawsuit: by dismissing the case. The judge cited the sweeping immunity that social media companies enjoy under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. The law provides legal immunity to tech companies from libel and other civil suits for what people post on sites, regardless of how harmful it may be. But the appeals court's reversal paves a way around the all-powerful law, saying it doesn't apply because this case is not about what someone posted to Snapchat, but rather the design of the app itself.

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Snapchat Can Be Sued Over Role In Fatal Car Crash, Court Rules

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:48AM (#61350096)

    Does this mean every speedometer app should be sued? No.

    Does this mean that end users should be educated better not to be fucking retards? Yes.

    • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @03:13PM (#61351822) Homepage Journal

      Speedometer apps don't create a natural setup for a game to be played on social media to see how fast you can go complete with a way for all your friends and even complete strangers to "like" your speed.

  • by Ostracus ( 1354233 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:50AM (#61350108) Journal

    The ruling, from a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, has set off intense debate among legal watchers about the future of a decades-old law that has shielded tech companies from civil lawsuits.

    Whew. Good thing the gun industry doesn't have this kind of problem.

    • Or the knife industry.
      • And to think they just hand them out to people at restaurants. OMG!
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          They do pretty much the same thing with guns in the USA.
    • by JudgeFurious ( 455868 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:58AM (#61350148)

      Neither industry should have this kind of problem.

    • Well, of course we need more "sensible" car laws.

      And sensible phone safety laws too.

      You know, if they raised the driving age to 21, this wouldn't have happened.

      This can get ridiculous quickly.

  • by haus ( 129916 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:51AM (#61350110) Journal

    I do not know if there is an “achievement” for a posted filter image above 100 mph or not, but it makes sense that companies that are built in part on the stupidity of their users should be in part responsible when this stupidity has consequences.

    If nothing else, the speed filter that recorded/noted speeds on public roads well in excess of legal limits was not a good idea. Which should allow the case to be heard by the court.

    • by Ostracus ( 1354233 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:53AM (#61350114) Journal

      I do not know if there is an “achievement” for a posted filter image above 100 mph or not, but it makes sense that companies that are built in part on the stupidity of their users should be in part responsible when this stupidity has consequences.

      What do you have against slashdot?

    • +1 Insightful

    • The "achievement" may be a feature but that's irrelevant. The attention that people receive for doing stupid shit and being celebrated for it by other stupid people is the prize. How you convince people to stop seeking that is the answer.

    • by scamper_22 ( 1073470 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @11:12AM (#61350224)

      This right here. I don't know if they should be guilty or not, but it's an interesting case to be heard.

      There's more responsible ways of doing things than others.
      The speed filter might have very responsible users. Maybe tracking your run.

      Kinda of similar, where I live, we have a toll highway that released it's app pretty recently. On it, it shows your trips (entry/exit, time...) which makes it really easy to calculate your speed. But there's a funny thing, the maximum speed it shows is like > 95 km/h or something like that. I don't think they want to show any speed that exceeds the speed limit; just my assumption. Some business analyst probably looked at that and said, this is not a good look if we show that we know the person was speeding.

      The point is, they could have just as easily released the app without that limit, but someone put some thought into it.

      A lot of tech firms are making decisions without enough thought that can have big impacts.

      Just recently, there was the talk of automated driving and how Tesla doesn't do as much as say Ford in terms of systems to determine if the driver is actually at the wheel.

      Case for negligence or something? I don't know, but definitely valid to be heard.

      • by dargaud ( 518470 )
        In that same topic, I always thought that car speedmeters (tachymeters!) should have a limit slightly above the highest legal limit. The only point of using them way above is stupid people trying to do some kind of faster! faster! stunts. And the car can still go fast in emergencies.

        And also it would make the meters a lot more readable. I have one that goes to 220km/h in a car that could anyway barely reach 180 if pushed to the max. So I can hardly tell the difference between 90 and 100 when looking at th

        • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          In that same topic, I always thought that car speedmeters (tachymeters!) should have a limit slightly above the highest legal limit.

          The "speedmeters" in cars is called a speedometer a "tachymeters" (I assume you meant tachometer) measures the rotational speed of your engine (more specifically the crank shaft).

          • by dargaud ( 518470 )
            Well, sorry for the typos, I don't write (or use) those words very often. But as for your definition of tachometer, tachus means speed in ancien greek and upon verifying your definition, it may be true in english but not in other languages where it's simply synonymous with speedometer. In other words, you mileage may vary !
      • by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

        The point is, they could have just as easily released the app without that limit, but someone put some thought into it.

        They could also issue tickets as well as the toll if the distance covered took less than the required time. Does it make them liable because they didn't choose to issue tickets? Are they encouraging it?

    • by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

      On public roads. That should also apply to all cars. Not sure why you would fault an app that was used to break the law and not the registered vehicle and the registered driver who actually passed tests to determine their competency. If I follow your reasoning then the state should be held responsible because it allowed a registered vehicle driven by a licensed occupant to exceed the limit on it's road.

  • meh (Score:5, Informative)

    by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:53AM (#61350118) Homepage Journal

    The court decided that they could sue, since it's over something not covered by Section 230. And they're right. It's not a post. It's about a feature built into Snapchat.

    Whether or not they'll win in the end - who knows. (I'd hope not because there are plenty of other ways to get your speed onto Snapchat, like just pointing the camera at the speedometer itself.)

    I suppose if Snapchat were promoting videos of people driving very fast and offering rewards for doing so they might be liable, but my understanding is Snapchat only shows your posts to people who explicitly follow you, and not to people in general. But I don't use Snapchat so I don't know how it really works.

  • by JudgeFurious ( 455868 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:55AM (#61350126)

    A stupid ruling that further encourages stupid behavior. Individuals have no reason to take responsibility for their own actions today aside from basic self-preservation and that seems to be in a state of decline as well. If your kid isn't smart enough to understand this then you win a dead kid. If you want to blame someone go find a mirror.

    • by haus ( 129916 )

      The people who were in the car speeding and using Snap are dead. That seems like some level of responsibility was been taken.

      The families want a hearing to look into some of the factors that led to their deaths. Perhaps changes can be made that might make it a bit less likely for others to suffer similar fates in the future.

      • by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

        How about why the state issued a drivers license to an individual who did not understand speed limits? If the driver wasn't licensed then how about to the individual who the car is registered to. I feel the US is bordering on insanity. We want freedom when it suits us but to blame others when it doesn't. You can't be free to choose, when others limit your action. If Snapchat is responsible then gun manufacturers should also be responsible if their "tool" injures or kills another.

      • >Perhaps changes can be made that might make it a bit less likely for others to suffer similar fates in the future.
        Those idiots wont pass their genes one. So job done.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:13PM (#61350604)

      The ruling is far from stupid.

      It says that this auit clearly doesn't fail due to S230 (overturning the lower court ruling), because the suit is *not* about user-posted content, but about Snapchat allegedly encouraging certain behaviour, which S230 has nothing to say about.

      The ruling *doesn't* say that the suit has any significant merit, just that it was dismissed on legally incorrect grounds.

      You would have grounds to call it stupid if the suit actually succeeded. But not at this stage.

  • by kiviQr ( 3443687 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @10:55AM (#61350128)
    I see plenty of photos of speedometers way above speed limit? Is speedometer also encouraging stupidity?
    • I see plenty of photos of speedometers way above speed limit? Is speedometer also encouraging stupidity?

      Depends, is the purpose of the speedometer purely to share information on social media like a snapchat filter? When people call Ford an "influencer" I don't think they meant that kind of influencer.

      Your strawman isn't a very good one.

  • Does that mean other social media apps can be sued over things like participating in the January 6th Capitol events? This does seem like a pretty dangerous precedent. Can I sue the fork manufacturer for enabling me to become fat?

    • Does that mean other social media apps can be sued over things like participating in the January 6th Capitol events?

      Social media apps (that is, the design of the apps' software itself) didn't encourage sedition -- user content did.

      The argument about Snap is that by designing a filter that overlays your speed onto your content, Snap is encouraging unlawful and dangerous behavior since nobody uses the filter to overlay a lawful and safe speed.

      Note: I am not saying whether I agree with the argument. I'm

      • Note: I am not saying whether I agree with the argument. I'm just explaining the argument.

        Good to know, I'm not a Snap-Chatter (if that's what they're called?), so I can't really imagine how that would be useful that's anything but dangerous.

        This may be less of a dangerous precedent than I first thought.

    • >Can I sue the fork manufacturer for enabling me to become fat?
      It's the food you eat not the fork, so yes, in your country.

  • IMHO companies should indeed be shielded from responsibility for abuse or misuse by the actual user. That's in the users responsibility.

    As long as they can provide a legitimate use case and prove that they are not actually market it for abuse(*). The bar can be reasonably low here. Works for the liquor, drug and gun industry, too.

    But that is a point that (from what I just read) would to hear from Snapchat: What - besides documenting speeding - could be the legitimate use case for a "speed filter"? Play "How

    • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      What - besides documenting speeding - could be the legitimate use case for a "speed filter"?

      The speed filter could be used to show how fast:
      your last run was.
      you skied down a mountain.
      the plane you were flying in was going.
      etc.

      It could even be used to show how slow something is going (weird example but maybe you want to measure how slow a turtle/tortoise is going).
       

  • If the passenger used the app, how did the crash happen?
    Is the argument that the only reason they went on that ride was because of said app?
    • by haus ( 129916 )

      There is no argument made that Snap speed filter was the sole reason for the accident, they are arguing that it is a contributing factor as the stupid people seemed to believe that by going well over 100 mph they could earn an “achievement” from Snap.

    • The logic goes like this:

      Snapchat: Boy, wouldn't it be cool if you went faster?

      Passenger: Drive faster so we can get some sick snaps bruh!

      Driver: OK!

      The court has said that the facts of the case can be put in front of a jury, who can decide how much fault lies with each of these parties.

  • They built the car with the capability to go that fast, after all.

    My question is facetious, in case there was any doubt. This whole thing is absurd.

    Somebody please stop the earth for a minute, I'm pretty sure I missed my stop.

    • Out of common courtesy, just wait for the next stop and walk back.

      If you missed your stop, there's no need to fling the rest of humanity forward 1600km/hr. :P

      Yo Grark

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )
        If the state of this lawsuit is any indication, I think stopping might be doing humanity a favor.
  • by dark.nebulae ( 3950923 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @11:06AM (#61350184)

    A distraction caused the crash, so let's sue the source of the distraction?

    Okay, so what if the distraction was a billboard. Or the phone ringing. Or a cop car on the side of the road. Or the burger and fries they're trying to eat.

    I'm sorry, but just because snapchat has this feature doesn't make them liable for stupid.

    • They are saying it incentivized speeding, not that it distracted.

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

      What will get overturned, and on what grounds? Generally you have the right to sue anybody you claim caused you harm. Whether you WIN that suit or not is a completely different story. This ruling just says that Snapchat is not special (in this case) and can be sued like everyone else.

      I don't see anything about distraction causing the crash. The crash seems to have been caused by excessive speed, encouraged by the 'look how cool we are speeding' snapchat filter.

      As for your other points: if the parties in

    • You are so misinterpreting what the court said. They didn't say Snapchat did anything wrong. They said the parents should have the right to sue Snapchat. They have the right to sue, to lose the case, and to pay their lawyers.
    • I'm sorry, but just because snapchat has this feature doesn't make them liable for stupid.

      If, as an Uber passenger, my driver chose to put on a blindfold and hit a pedestrian, no jury would convict me of anything.

      If, as an Uber passenger, I told my driver "If you can drive a mile blindfolded without getting in an accident, I'll give you $10,000", there's no way I'm not going to prison.

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @11:06AM (#61350192)
    S230 protects companies from being sued or prosecuted as a result of the users content. The lawsuit would be over Snap's own actions in creating a filter that encouraged dangerous behavior. It's a criminal negligence case.

    There's a concerted effort to destroy the projections from S230. The corporate Dems want it gone because they think it'll help them prevent another Jan 6th or the next authoritarian populist (they're wrong), the GOP want to be able to use lawsuits to silence their critics (they're actually right, ending S230 will chill free speech).

    Don't let them do it. Along with Net Neutrality S230 is the bedrock of the internet.
    • Did it encourage it? Did it simply make it possible for people to do stupid shit with their phones? We're surrounded all the time with items that can be used for incredibly dumb stuff and much of it can be used for dangerous dumb stuff. All I see is a filter for an app that I don't even use which tells you how fast you're going using the phone's GPS. Is it advertised as a way for you to show your friends how far over the speed limit you are going? Unless it is I'm just not seeing how anyone can suggest a wi

    • by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @12:14PM (#61350608)

      There's a concerted effort to destroy the projections from S230. The corporate Dems want it gone because they think it'll help them prevent another Jan 6th or the next authoritarian populist (they're wrong), the GOP want to be able to use lawsuits to silence their critics (they're actually right, ending S230 will chill free speech).

      The Dems aren't wholly incorrect. By removing S230 the platforms will become extremely paranoid about hosting anything controversial. Who are the kings of controversial content designed to drive rage? Reps. Who are the people who demonstrably used the most (from Facebook hired internal AND external investigators, not meant to be shared, but which were leaked after someone developed a conscience) outright false content to drive engagement and whip up conspiracy theories? Reps again. What do countries who want to sow division and rage use to drive engagement? Yep, provably false content. That's the problem for conservatives, removing S230 doesn't just mean they get to sue. They are the kings of provably false content, and if Facebook / Twitter / Reddit / Chan are going to be sued every time someone decides to create a false narrative, think Q and Comet Pizza, holy -expletive- folks. They're going to be ban happy on content.

      The flip side of that is there won't be an critical discussion because the GOP will threaten to sue everyone. Big deal? Yes. However the Reps will find out that, in their zeal to silence critics, they will have silenced themselves. How the -expletive- is someone like Donald Trump supposed to say incendiary things online? Remember that without S230 anyone hosting incendiary things will get sued, often repeatedly. Hint: You can't. Anyone who studies authoritarian populists will also tell you that removing the ability to say outrageous things would kill them in a heartbeat. The authoritarian populist relies on tossing metaphorical firebombs, to try and generate rage where there normally is none. Or, in the words of Salvor Hardin, "A fire-eater must eat fire even if he has to kindle it himself." No S230 protections? No more tossing metaphorical firebombs to whip up the mob.

      Removing S230 will destroy Republicans like MTG, Boebert, Trump, and so on. The perpetual outrage machine requires outrageous imagery to work, and you can't have that without S230 protections. Imagine someone suing Facebook because someone posted demonstrably false information to generate outrage, because without S230 that's what will happen. If you think for one picosecond Facebook (or any other company) is going to risk their money to host controversial content, I've got several bridges to sell you for cheap.

  • This isn't being done lately. The parents should sue themselves for raising such a bunch of fucking idiots.
  • ... for their assistance in earning the car's occupants a Darwin Award, and thus raising the average intelligence of the human race a small percentage. (Of course I'm being sarcastic, in case someone did not figure that out.)
  • Waiting for someone to sue Snap Inc. (or would that be smartphone makers?) for taking selfies. Snapchat app encourages people to take selfies which has lead to many injuries and deaths [wikipedia.org].

  • The reasoning from the district court was total fucking bullshit ... snapchat is accused of making a negligent design in their own content they add to a published snap, so lets pretend that the CDA somehow shields them entirely from prosecution when they add that to someone else's content?

    How much money, favours and/or nudge nudge wink wink promises of quid pro quo changed hands to make the district court reach that conclusion?

  • the owner of the tree should be able to sue the parents for raising stupid kids. After all, were it not for them the tree would be alive and well today.

    Kidding aside, when does this madness end? Everything that goes wrong is now somebody else's fault. Everyone is a victim. There is no personal responsibility for anything at all.

  • handing their idiot kids a phone with snapchat and the car keys, in the hope of getting rid of them plus getting some nice compensation.
  • I'm assuming Snapchat didn't do something stupid here, such as providing achievements for very high speeds or giving some kind of visual reward for unsafe speeds.

    Wouldn't the same logic apply to a very broad range of similar applications that provide numbers without any judgment? Being overweight or underweight is dangerous, so apps that allow sharing of weight could be implicated where a person does something stupid. Apps that share activity (e.g. running, weights lifted) could be linked to stupid behaviou

  • This was the story of how Darwin Award nominees are created. To claim Snapchat, or anything else, is responsible for their actions is ludicrous. No one forced them to drive at an excessive rate of speed.

    If we're going to claim Snapchat is partially liable, then we can claim YouTube is also partially responsible since they could just as easily put up their video on that service for the world to see.

    As a side note, it seems we've definitely come to the conclusion video games do not (overtly) promote violenc

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