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He Gave a Cryptocurrency Talk In North Korea. The US Arrested Him. (nytimes.com) 244

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: He was a former hacker from Alabama who styled himself a "disruptive technologist" and believed that he was using his data-mining expertise as a force for good. But then, in April, Virgil Griffith traveled to North Korea with a visa he had obtained from a diplomatic mission in New York City, going through China to circumvent an American travel ban. He gave a talk at a conference in Pyongyang about how to use cryptocurrency and blockchain technology to launder money, according to federal investigators. Now Mr. Griffith, 36, faces federal charges that he violated international sanctions. He was arrested on Thursday as he landed at Los Angeles International Airport.

Mr. Griffith, an American citizen who lives in Singapore and works for the Ethereum Foundation, is accused of conspiring with North Korea since August 2018. He appeared in federal court in Los Angeles last week and will eventually be brought to New York. He faces up to 20 years in prison. Though the United States government had denied Mr. Griffith permission to go to North Korea, he traveled there anyway in April and spoke at the Pyongyang Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Conference, according to a criminal complaint unsealed on Friday. During his speech and in discussions afterward, he provided information about how North Korea could use cryptocurrency to "achieve independence from the global banking system," the complaint said. He also later made plans "to facilitate the exchange" of a digital currency between North and South Korea.
"We cannot allow anyone to evade sanctions, because the consequences of North Korea obtaining funding, technology, and information to further its desire to build nuclear weapons put the world at risk," said William F. Sweeney Jr., an assistant director-in-charge at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. "It's even more egregious that a U.S. citizen allegedly chose to aid our adversary."

Hacker magazine, 2600, where Mr. Griffith was a contributing writer, said on Twitter that what Mr. Griffith had done -- explaining the concept of cryptocurrency -- was not a crime. The magazine's editor, Emmanual Goldstein, said Mr. Griffith was incapable of doing what federal investigators have accused him of. "He would not help a murderous dictator," he said. "He's a typical hacker who loves technology and adventure."
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He Gave a Cryptocurrency Talk In North Korea. The US Arrested Him.

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  • Misleading headline (Score:5, Interesting)

    by apoc.famine ( 621563 ) <apoc.famine@NOSPAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:05AM (#59483646) Journal

    He Gave a Cryptocurrency Talk In North Korea. Leading up to it he was asked, "Doesn't this violate international sanctions?" and he answered, "Yes", indicating that he knew he was doing something totally illegal in the US and numerous other countries. When he returned to the US like a dumbass, nobody was surprised that The US Arrested Him.

    • by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:07AM (#59483656) Journal

      It would be like an American giving a cryptography lecture in Germany... In 1943

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Joce640k ( 829181 )

        It would be like an American giving a cryptography lecture in Germany... In 1943

        Only if it was a talk about the Pigpen Cipher.

        Does anybody seriously think the Koreans don't know anything about blockchains (or maybe needed it explaining to them by a genetically superior round-eye)?

        • by jythie ( 914043 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:26AM (#59483840)
          Which is why the idea that he was just 'explaining the concept of cryptocurrency' is pretty suspect. The DPRK, and anyone within it in a position to listen, is likely well aware of the technology and potentially already using it. Thus his talk was probably a lot more specific in going over ways the technology can be applied to their specific problems.
        • by Entrope ( 68843 )

          Who suggested that he was bringing them up from zero ("don't know anything")? Turn your question around: Why would they pay for him to come give a talk unless they expected to learn something useful from it?

          • Why would they pay for him to come give a talk unless they expected to learn something useful from it?

            This is North Korea we're talking about. They'd gladly pay an American to come give a talk on evading US sanctions even if it had zero new useful content, simply for the propaganda value.

      • by thomn8r ( 635504 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:14PM (#59484276)

        It would be like an American giving a cryptography lecture in Germany... In 1943

        Unless you worked for IBM or Brown Brothers Harriman

      • Or like a giant U.S. computer manufacturer helping Germany automate it's ambitions ... in 1937

        interesting article/interview https://hbr.org/podcast/2019/1... [hbr.org]

    • by oh_my_080980980 ( 773867 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:18AM (#59483800)
      He violated a travel ban. He did not provide North Korea with technology. Big difference.

      Information about cryptocurrencies is widely found on the internet.
      • by jythie ( 914043 )
        Depends on exactly what the talk comprised of. Lots of things are widely known, but provide enough material support to obtain and utilize things can fall under export bans. If his talk was just 'crypot exists!' then sure. If it was 'here are the specific pieces, here are the downloads, and here is how to assemble them in order to evade sanctions', then it is another matter.
        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          Yeah, it's like running slaves: you'll get busted for it, but you're still a hero (although in this case, cryptocurrency is still garbage).

          Economic sanctions are just war crimes. That governments have declared them not changes nothing.

          Governments have declared human beings property, and all examination shows a human being can never be the property of another human being. A government exists to protect rights from private infringement, and if a person is property they have no recourse in court for red

          • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:11AM (#59484032) Homepage

            Economic sanctions are just war crimes. That governments have declared them not changes nothing.

            Except that North Korea actually is a totalitarian dictatorship that keeps control by brutality.

            Helping them does not make you "a hero." It makes you complicit.

            • Except that North Korea actually is a totalitarian dictatorship that keeps control by brutality.

              And is still officially in a state of war with both South Korea and the US, the really hot war many decades ago was only stopped with an armistice. The one thing major thing Trump has unambiguously stopped in his diplomatic efforts with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) is their regular murders of their enemies. Hopefully also stopped the kidnappings, necessary for various types of espionage si

            • Economic sanctions target first and foremost the poor and weak. They do approximately nothing to the political structure, and often make it stronger (look, it's AMERICA'S fault these people are starving--what a wonderful tool for the Taliban and Kim Jong-Il to keep their people focused on an external enemy!).

              It isn't functionally different from releasing plague-bearing fleas and rats into schools and hospitals to knock down their labor force and hobble their economies. Your target is the young, the eld

        • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:08AM (#59484016) Homepage
          We need to remember, North Korea actually is a totalitarian dictatorship. Really, we do not want to support them.

          If he actually did give a talk the point of which was to try to help North Korea use cryptocurrency and blockchain technology to evade money laundering laws-- he both broke the law, and also did his best to support a dictatorship.

          • North Korea's evil depends on the people remaining in desperate poverty and isolation from the world. It has been prolonged by sanctions. If you have any interest in making North Korea less evil, you should want it to integrate into global trade and rise out of poverty. And hey, if it doesn't work after 20 years, you'll finally have some actual leverage by threatening a modern economy with sanctions that could send it back to where North Korea is today -- whereas today sanctions can't really do anything (no

            • by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

              In which fantasy universe do you live where free trade with the DPRK government will lead to bettering the lives of its civilians?

      • by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:35AM (#59483868)

        He gave a demonstration where he actually transferred crypto into and out of NK. That's a lot more that violating a travel ban.

      • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:52AM (#59483946)

        He violated a travel ban. He did not provide North Korea with technology. Big difference.

        Information about cryptocurrencies is widely found on the internet.

        And information about how to build a bomb is available on the internet. But if a US physicist goes to NK and gives a lecture on the operation of nuclear bombs he's probably going to be arrested when he gets back.

      • Delivering Technology is Communication of a process. Here is how you can use this set of tools to create this outcome, is Delivering Technology.

        For this case. Here is how to use Cryptocurrency to transfer money.

    • by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:03AM (#59483994)
      The rest of the world is getting very uncomfortable with the inability for the average American to recognize 'laws'. It's nice to see there are some that still do.
    • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:39AM (#59484140)

      The Korean War in America is called the Forgotten War, because it was overshadowed by the end of WWII and The Vietnam War. However for North Korea it had never ended. So North Korea is still at war with the US. And the US still considers North Korea an enemy.

      To make things worse North Korea will tend to use what ever funds it gets and puts most of it towards military strength. Vs towards supporting their population.

      These factors makes it politically easy to support sanctions against North Korea because we can justify that little if any money pushed into that country will not be used to help humanitarian problems and only make them more of a threat to the world.

      So if you are going to be stupid enough to show an Enemy country how to work around sanctions then you are going to jail, if captured.

      The United States isn't a saint. But in terms of North Korea it seems that it is on the right side of history. China tolerates North Korea just because it is a buffer zone between South Korea and Japan, strong Democratic Capitalist economies.

  • by x0 ( 32926 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:07AM (#59483658) Homepage
    ...Win stupid prizes.

    "He's a typical hacker who loves technology and adventure."

    Apparently, he's also an idiot.

    m

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Freischutz ( 4776131 )

      ...Win stupid prizes.

      "He's a typical hacker who loves technology and adventure."

      Apparently, he's also an idiot. m

      Let's not be too harsh here, he's being accused by the government of the county that clamed there were WMDs in Iraq, set the entire Middle East on fire over it (but never foudn any WMDs) and whose current president believes vaccines give you autism, wind turbines give you cancer, Obama is not a US citizen, four million illegal immigrants voted in the 2016 election and nobody noticed, the Ukraine is be hiding a server with Hillary Clinton's missing emails on it, the the Clintons framed and killed Jeffrey Ep

      • Let's not be too harsh here, he's being accused by the government of the county that clamed there were WMDs in Iraq, set the entire Middle East on fire over it (but never foudn any WMDs) and whose current president believes vaccines give you autism, wind turbines give you cancer, Obama is not a US citizen, four million illegal immigrants voted in the 2016 election and nobody noticed, the Ukraine is be hiding a server with Hillary Clinton's missing emails on it, the the Clintons framed and killed Jeffrey Epstein, climate change is a Chinese hoax ...

        And absolutely none of that is relevant to this case.

        The US can be a bad actor, and this guy can be an idiot. They are not mutually exclusive.

        Plus this isn't a "trust the US" thing. There's plenty of independent documentation that he did indeed violate the travel ban, including his own admission.

        • Let's not be too harsh here, he's being accused by the government of the county that clamed there were WMDs in Iraq, set the entire Middle East on fire over it (but never foudn any WMDs) and whose current president believes vaccines give you autism, wind turbines give you cancer, Obama is not a US citizen, four million illegal immigrants voted in the 2016 election and nobody noticed, the Ukraine is be hiding a server with Hillary Clinton's missing emails on it, the the Clintons framed and killed Jeffrey Epstein, climate change is a Chinese hoax ...

          And absolutely none of that is relevant to this case.

          Really? The government whose leaders are morons who believe that crap are charging this guy for giving a talk about crypto currency. Who’s the biggest moron in this situation? Hint: it’s the Trump admin.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:37AM (#59483732)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • We are at war with N. Korea. Many have concluded N. Korea to be just a vessel state of China playing the role of "Bad COP" to further the geopolitical ambitions of China.

        Sure. Which is why the policy of engagement with North Korea and bringing them into the market economy is the only approach that doesn't worsen the safety of Americans.

        "It's even more egregious that a U.S. citizen allegedly chose to aid our adversary."

        The John Bolton / FBI / Deep State approach of Imperialism towards North Korea endangers

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by DarkOx ( 621550 )

          WOW you still believe the whole lets expose them to market economy approach.

          Its ONLY utterly failed for 50 years in China! Just look at Hong Kong right now; the PRC might embrase capitalism in some ways but they have in NO WAY embrace small-L-liberalism. They are not exactly seeking to join hands and sing with us in terms of mutual interests either. China's economic policies go beyond "China First" many of them are clearly designed to harm American interests sometimes at the expense of China's own (short te

          • by nomadic ( 141991 )

            "Its ONLY utterly failed for 50 years in China!"

            China is still a dictatorship but it's vastly improved compared to 50 years ago, when the Cultural Revolution was in full swing. And a lot of that relaxing is due to the rise of a middle class, which was itself driven by international trade.

  • wrong headline (Score:5, Informative)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:11AM (#59483664) Journal
    Headline should be: "He went through China to circumvent an American travel ban. The US Arrested Him"
  • by frank_adrian314159 ( 469671 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:11AM (#59483668) Homepage

    Looks like he's going to get about 20 years of adventure.

    • by Chromal ( 56550 )
      Not really. He did nothing wrong by expressing himself. Only a fascist traitor to our Constitution could possibly be confused about free speech.
  • by Alexan Kulbashian ( 4438611 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:15AM (#59483674)
    Spreading information is great.. however, in North Korea, the only segment of the population that can get any kind of benefit from this kind of speech, is the dictatorship. The population doesn't have internet access, or the ability to get involved in bitcoin mining/use in the foreseeable future. The side effect of being an overzealous activist. They have such a hate-on for their own government, they see roses when looking at even the worst kind of dictator.
  • by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:20AM (#59483688)

    I know it's a lot to ask but can we not have clickbait headlines?

    • Yeah, agree on this one at least. The title sounds like something you'd hear in Buzzfeed. I don't see why it couldn't have been something like "US citizen arrested for providing cryptocurrency education to North Korea in violation of sanctions."
    • Nope! Got rent to pay! The summary was hilarious, too. They tried soooooo hard to make this traitorous piece of shit into a victim. Failed hard.
  • by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve ( 949321 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:31AM (#59483714)
    We already had another post on this exact subject on Monday. But claiming "He was just explaining what cyrptocurrency is" is just a lawyer's excuse to try to save a client with little chance of winning in court. This is akin to a lawyer saying "Yes, my client did break into the deceased's house, but he just wanted a drink of water. When he got confronted he had to defend himself so he shot the home owner. And I know it looks like he stole some stuff, but he was actually taking them for safekeeping to keep real robbers from getting them before he could located the next of kin to give them to." The previous post on this referenced the government's legal document where the accused admitted giving North Korea information on money transfers to get around current US sanctions, which is certainly a crime in the USA. And the accused apparently met with the feds without any legal representation and said a lot of things that hurt this "I was just passing on information anybody could find online" argument. By the way, traveling to North Korea currently without US government permission is a crime, although it's not as much of a crime as violating US sanctions is.
    • by thereddaikon ( 5795246 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:59AM (#59483760)

      And the argument that the information was available online means nothing as well. Recently a flight sim dev was arrested for purchasing an F-16 manual on ebay. The manual is available to the public and selling it on eBay way legal. What made it illegal is that its only legal in NATO member nations. The developer and his employer are Russian. It also didn't help that while the devs were working on modeling the F-16 for the game, this guy wasn't part of that team and was operating on his own initiative.

      So it;s very much a case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. NK is under a lot of sanctions and there is probably very little if any business an American citizen can do with them legally. Seems to me that this guy possesses the same roguish arrogance that is sadly too common in infosec. Clearly his programming skill means he knows best about all things. Sanctions are stupid and telling NK how to circumvent them via crypto is a good idea. /s

  • ... they would have done, in the open, what they did, but under cover they would have honored him for grossly misdirecting North Korea by pretending that cryptocurrency was money.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:53AM (#59483948)

      The massive amount of successful money laundering as well as trading of illegal goods and services that cryptocurrency is responsible for shows that yes, you're absolutely right, calling it "money" is a joke. It's far better than money, and far more useful than money to North Korea.

      So your joke aside, no they will not be honoring him ,.... waterboarding maybe, but not honoring.

  • by spacerodent ( 790183 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:50AM (#59483750)
    According to the article on CNN.com he was even warned he would be arrested if he did it. I guess he wanted the adventure
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:50AM (#59483754)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      You mean like the United States arming and provide logistical support to Saudi Arabia with their genocidal war with Yemen.

      Awful lot of CIA trolls on slashdot today. Ironic considering its libertarian bent...
      • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:14AM (#59484048) Homepage

        You mean like the United States arming and provide logistical support to Saudi Arabia with their genocidal war with Yemen.

        Tu quoque... [yourlogicalfallacyis.com]

      • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        Saudi Arabia with their genocidal war with Yemen.

        Right Iran, which is busying killing conducting mass execution of domestic protestors has nothing to do with the conflicts in Yemen.

        Can we all just admin there are exactly no-good-guys in the middle east. The Islamic regimes are fundamentally incompatible with Western Values and I don't mean the specifically judeo-christian ones, I mean the secular humanist enlightenment ones. Really we need to disengage from that entire swamp until it sorts itself out.

  • "achieve independence from the global banking system"

    It sounds like his arrest had a reason and an excuse. I think the above independence is the reason.

  • Some sanctions busting efforts are more equal than others ... https://www.france24.com/en/20... [france24.com] "which is designed to circumvent US sanctions against trade with Iran by avoiding use of the dollar."
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Who would've thought they treat other governments differently from individuals.

      What is the US Government going to do with the european politicians? Arrest all of them? (yes please)

    • I really want to see your argument that European governments are subject to US laws.

  • by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:04AM (#59483998)
    Why do Americans get so surprised when someone is arrested for doing something blatantly illegal? It's like everyone over there thinks they should be able to make up their own set of laws. It isn't playing will with the international community.
    • Admittedly it's not everyone, just a majority of voters and the entire senate.
    • by twocows ( 1216842 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:39PM (#59484346)
      Our government is set up so that most behaviors that aren't specifically made illegal are legal by default. I think this is a good setup, but many people are grossly underinformed as to what the law actually is (part of this is because the legal system is complicated enough that you can study for eight years to specialize in a single area). This tends to lead to situations where people are blindsided by laws they didn't know existed -- law enforcement frequently has stories about suspects claiming they were "only doing X," where X is a very well-defined illegal action.

      The solutions I can think of are (1) requiring a better civics education that teaches students early on the basics of how the law works and enables them to figure out the applicable laws to a particular situation and (2) simplifying the legal code so that it's not a byzantine web of statutes, precedents, and jurisdictions that requires specialized higher education to competently interact with. I think a bit of both would go a long way, though the question of how to accomplish the second would have to be handled carefully.
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        I think our government likes things just the way they are.

        "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime."

        - Lavrentiy Beria

  • Yeah we're talking about N Korea, the worst possible Freedom Of Speech test case, a shit-hole nation led by a totalitarian asshole and a cadre of power-seeking psychophants, all who deserve to die in a firing squad of 20mm anti-aircraft guns.

    Yet we should be PISSED that the US State Department, or any government or agency, seems to believe it is has the authority to direct who's allowed to learn about and who's allowed to talk blockchain. After all: This is slashdot, a community only made possible through o

    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      " believe it is has the authority to direct who's allowed to learn about and who's allowed to talk blockchain"

      no, it believe it can arrest people for violating sanctions; which it can.

      blockchain is a red herring bandied about by the idiots at 2600 it deflect from that actual crime.

  • Free as in speech.
  • trying to change the truth.

    He wasn't arrested for talking about crypto-currency, he was arrested for sanction violations.

    This is like saying a bank robber was arrested for wearing a mask.

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