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Crime United States Databases Government Privacy

US Takes Step To Require DNA Samples From Asylum-Seekers (apnews.com) 357

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Associated Press: The Trump administration is planning to collect DNA samples from asylum-seekers and other migrants detained by immigration officials and will add the information to a massive FBI database used by law enforcement hunting for criminals, a Justice Department official said. The Justice Department on Monday issued amended regulations that would mandate DNA collection for almost all migrants who cross between official entry points and are held even temporarily. The official said the rules would not apply to legal permanent residents or anyone entering the U.S. legally, and children under 14 are exempt, but it's unclear whether asylum-seekers who come through official crossings will be exempt. The new policy, which was first reported in October, would allow the government to collect DNA samples from hundreds of thousands of people booked into federal immigration custody each year for entry into a national criminal database. Immigrant and privacy advocates said at the time that the move "raised privacy concerns for an already vulnerable population that could face profiling or discrimination as a result of their personal data being shared among law enforcement authorities."

Trump administration officials say hope the database will lead to more crimes being solved and act as a deterrent to prevent migrants from trying to enter the United States. The new regulations go into effect Tuesday.
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US Takes Step To Require DNA Samples From Asylum-Seekers

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  • by MrLogic17 ( 233498 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:18AM (#59334620) Journal

    What's not commonly known is WHY this is a thing.
    The rules around asylum requests fast-tracked families with small children. Well, incentives being what they are, it didn't take long for the word to get out. Find a child, take them with you, and you get in faster. You can see where this is going - kidnappings, abductions, child trafficking, etc.

    Well, once testing started, turns out a large number of lone individuals with a small child were not related to the child. This should invalidate the fast-tracking of the adult.

    Once word gets out that cheating the system this way doesn't work anymore, the lives of children will get much better. Fix the incentives, and you improve the system for everyone.

    • by Holi ( 250190 )
      Can you cite any source that shows that DNA testing has found " a large number of lone individuals with a small child were not related to the child.". I mean you make the claim so obviously you have supporting evidence on hand.

      Have we thoroughly vetted our tests? If we are going to be taking the children we really should be positive that the test is accurate.
      Sweden tried their hand at rapid DNA testing and found it to be far too inaccurate.
      https://nfc.polisen.se/siteassets/dokument/informationsmateria
      • by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:39AM (#59334690)

        "In a pilot program, approximately 30% of rapid DNA tests of immigrant adults who were suspected of arriving at the southern border with children who weren't theirs revealed the adults were not related to the children, an official involved in the system's temporary rollout who asked to be anonymous in order to speak freely told the Washington Examiner Friday."

        https://www.washingtonexaminer... [washingtonexaminer.com]

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:17AM (#59334786) Homepage Journal

          That's misleading because it says 30% of those "suspected" of not being related to their children. TFA doesn't tell us how many were suspected, so maybe it was 3 and one of them turned out to by lying... Or not, because the child was adopted or they just genuinely didn't know who the true parent was.

          The first thing that needs to be established is how many were suspected, and then of the 30% of those who tested negative how many turned out not to be the legal guardians of those children.

          • > it says 30% of those "suspected"

            Because ICE has other means to try and determine if a fraudulent family claim is made and the pilot program was voluntary. Suspected means that those other means were employed at the time and the DNA test was to confirm it or to get a confession.

            DNA testing is one more tool to ensure valid claims and to discourage child trafficking from happening in the first place. The point being that ICE is going from a pilot program to full policy because of the fraudulent claims tha

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • So are you stating child trafficking doesn't happen at all among the population presenting themselves as asylum seekers, or that the number of children trafficked is trivial?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Gilgaron ( 575091 )
      Adoption aside, as a scientist with experience in assay validation, I'd not trust a rapid DNA test administered by a rando law enforcement officer in a non-lab with the potential consequence of removing a child from their adult guardian. The upside of the testing is... you don't fast track some people? You'd be better off spending the money on more staff for normal screening procedures.
    • OMFG, what an absolutely stupid post. How do you step outside everyday with such a horrible view of other humans?

      And folks are so used to such extreme versions of reality that they simply assume you must be right and mod you Informative.

      There is NO evidence of ANYTHING you said. Percentage wise, it's hardly above the margin of error and usually falls under a rounding issue. Do you understand how absolutely brain dead incompetent our immigration system, courts, ICE agents, police, and residents have to be t

    • by fibonacci8 ( 260615 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:09AM (#59335014)
      And this is a valid response because adoption doesn't exist. And when a relative or friend dies, no one has ever stepped up to take care of their child. Especially not during events when one might want to claim asylum, not just for yourself but for the child as well.
    • How do you prove someone isn't a legal guardian under these circumstances?

      I understand the potential for child abductions but this doesn't prove anything along those lines. Is it just going to be used as evidence against them in their hearing, like a big gotcha? I mean if they knew the kid wasn't blood related then they're a legal guardian unless you can prove otherwise, or they say otherwise.

      Isn't that how it works here? We can't just go around dna sampling people and snatching up children that don't ma

    • That's not only rare, stop listening to conspiracy idiots, but the US can't even process all the current criminal DNA testings, how the hell do you think they can suddenly handle thousands more? The infrastructure doesn't exist, and no money has been allocated to it, and you know it won't be cheap for them.
      This is another pointless boondoggle, and a very obvious attempt to get immigration to the level trump wants it at, zero, excluding his next wife.

      Which is not only hypocritical, it's really F'd up since
  • Vetting immigrants (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:20AM (#59334632)

    This will and should be a standard part of the immigration process. As law enforcement around the world adopts DNA databasing, it will becomes a vital part of the background check.

    • Well, I though the USA had signed the Universal Declaration for Human Rights. That specifically states that you cannot randomly be treated as a suspected criminal until you are actually accused of something criminal.
      • Perhaps, but it doesn't matter what we signed or said we'd do before the Trump administration; whatever we said then is likely irrelevant now as the US has been backing out of numerous things (Paris climate agreement, Iran nuclear deal, NAFTA, and so on).
        • Paris Accord: not ratified by the Senate.
          Iran Deal: not ratified by the Senate.

          "Deals" with a foreign state not ratified by the Senate is not a deal and does not have the force of law.

          Regardless, wasn't both of those "non-binding"? What's the difference between being part of a non-binding deal and not?

      • Sneaking into the country illegally is a crime.

        • But that is not what seeking asylum is.
          • Go to a port of entry to seek asylum and your claim will be processed.

            Our immigration and asylum courts are overburdened and the Secretary of Homeland security has directed that all asylum seekers must go through a port of entry.

          • by Hodr ( 219920 )

            There are lots of laws that allow you to benefit from a crime.

            Adverse possession is one. The crime of theft of property, if done for long enough while going unnoticed, is rewarded with being given rights to that property.

            Same here. It's a crime to enter the country in the manner they are doing it. If they successfully argue for asylum after being caught they may get a benefit from this crime, but it doesn't negate the fact that they commited a crime.

            • In adverse possession, "going unnoticed" would normally not lead to a successful outcome for the squatter.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

              "Although the elements of an adverse possession action are different in every jurisdiction, a person claiming adverse possession is usually required to prove non-permissive use of the property that is actual, open and notorious, exclusive, adverse and continuous for the statutory period."

  • I love the terminology. It sounds like we are stopping people from following reindeer herds across the tundra.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:First! (Score:4, Informative)

      by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:34AM (#59334678) Homepage Journal

      Most states already collect DNA from criminals and people who were arrested.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Asylum seekers are not criminals and should not be arrested because claiming asylum is legal. It doesn't matter where they cross the border either.

        • These aren't asylum seekers. The use of the term is disgusting but typical of SJW who try to reframe the story to suit their needs.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Even the Trump administration is calling the asylum seekers. Who are you claiming is an SJW here, the Justice Department?

            • No they aren't. They aren't asylum seekers. They are economic opportunity seekers. A perfectly valid reason to come to the US, but don't pretend that they are doing it for any reason (the vast majority). There isn't anything wrong with it, but it cheapens the term of "asylum seekers" because there are people who are really in need of asylum.

          • If that's the paperwork you signed, that's what you are. Whether you are ultimately denied, you have that right under ratified US treaties (that are superseded only by the Constitution in legal force).

        • Regardless of claiming asylum after the fact, crossing the border in a location not designated as a port of entry is a crime. That doesn't mean it will disqualify someone for asylum, but it is a misdemeanor violation of the law.
          • Except if your entry was to claim asylum, that crossing was not illegal. Ratified international treaties supersede US laws (except the Constitution). Trying to even claim it as an illegal crossing is disingenuous and misleading.

  • Curious... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:19AM (#59334790) Journal

    There is a link between immigrants and crime [justfacts.com]. No, it's not as you've often heard about "no link!" - there actually is, but because the data says small to "we don't know how much, but it is more", the media trumpeted it as "there isn't any because it's not definitive".

    This regulation/"Trump terror rule" was in effect since 2005 [latimes.com]. Conveniently, President Obama suspended the rule because it was "too expensive". Even canceled fingerprinting. Now, I don't know how much anyone here travels Internationally, but I travel quite a bit. I know when I enter most 1st and 2nd world countries, they collect fingerprints and photographs of my face. We weren't even doing that...

    What this is, is the Trump Administration seeing the link between illegal aliens coming in over the Southern border and crime. And seeing that the Obama Administration ignored a law (and ended up breaking the law by ignoring it) that could help solve some of the increased crime that happens from that unchecked immigration. And deciding to start the program back up.

    But I get it. Orange Man Bad.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      I guess you're referring to the stat that immigrants to the US are 79% less likely to be incarcerated than non-immigrants?

      • Re:Curious... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:26AM (#59335116) Homepage

        I guess you're referring to the stat that immigrants to the US are 79% less likely to be incarcerated than non-immigrants?

        Yeah, if you lump all immigrants together you get bullshit statistics. If you look only at illegal immigrants (and ignore the fact that they crossed the border illegally) the crime rate among them is substantially higher.

        If you act like my RN wife is the same as an illegal immigrant, then you can make illegal immigrants look better. But you're not being honest if you do that.

        Ironically, in Nashville I don't think it's so much the illegal immigrants committing crimes as it is their children. "Brown pride" gangs are a thing.

      • Re:Curious... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:20PM (#59335388) Journal

        I am referring to the data I linked to [justfacts.com]. Specifically:

        Based on U.S. Census data from 2011 to 2015, immigrants who remain in the U.S. and ... are not U.S. citizens are 7% more likely than the general U.S. population to be incarcerated in adult correctional facilities.

        Which apparently you chose to ignore. Immigrant, not a citizen (as would be the status for an illegal alien)? You have a 7% higher chance of being in prison.

        Additionally, we find that:

        Based on U.S. Census data from 2011 to 2015, Latin American immigrants who remain in the U.S. are 5.1 times more likely to be incarcerated than European immigrants and 6.3 times more likely than Asian immigrants

        So if we want to encourage immigration (which I support - my wife is an immigrant, and we took the time to do the visa application correctly, and she ultimately became a citizen in December 2018), should we choose from the higher crime group, or the lower crime group? I would posit most people would prefer to encourage immigration of those less likely to commit crimes.

        Furthermore, we find that 35% of California's prison population is non-citizen immigrants. Yet only 13% of the CA population are non-citizen immigrants [ppic.org] (27% of the State population is immigrant, but 52% of those are naturalized citizens now). That means that, at least in California, non-citizen immigrants are three times more likely to end up in prison as citizens.

        It is more than just crime, too. For instance:

        In 2010, the IRS paid out $4.2 billion in refundable child tax credits to 2.3 million tax filers who were not legally authorized to work in the United States.

        That is quite a bit of money right off the bat. What about other expenses?

        Anyway, if you had bothered to actually click the link, you would have educated yourself quite a bit, and been spared making the erroneous statement which you did.

    • Donâ(TM)t like it change the laws and treaties we have signed.

    • There is a link between immigrants and crime [justfacts.com]. No, it's not as you've often heard about "no link!" - there actually is, but because the data says small to "we don't know how much, but it is more", the media trumpeted it as "there isn't any because it's not definitive".

      Were you trying to get to a point? Unless we have a DNA test to prove that someone is trafficking drugs, it really doesn't matter. It's not to do with them crossing the border, it has to do with their occupation.

      This regulation/"Trump terror rule" was in effect since 2005 [latimes.com]. Conveniently, President Obama suspended the rule because it was "too expensive". Even canceled fingerprinting.

      The classic "If Obama did it too, then it must be OK with everyone" trope. Not everything Obama did was good. And if these testings equate to the person being considered a potential criminal, it violates human rights one or more treaties. Again, other countries doing it doesn't make it OK for u

    • I know when I enter most 1st and 2nd world countries, they collect fingerprints and photographs of my face.

      No they don't. Stop lying. I've been through six countries in Europe and not one of them ever collected my fingerprints. Nor did any of them collect any mugshot-style photographs of my face. They captured my face on airport security cameras that capture everyone, but that's it. Fingerprinting is not common in the developed world, let alone DNA collection, which also never happened.

  • But I say we start with Don Jr. and Eric.
  • by Evtim ( 1022085 ) on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @08:05AM (#59338496)

    Did you expect a sarcastic comment after reading the title of my post? You'd be disappointed!

    This particular eurotrash (moi) is confused. What I am confused about is how can anyone berate US for not being a free country in this discussion. Let me tell you how I became an economic emigrant in Western Europe.

    In order to enter NL in the year 2001 I needed:
    - work contract for minimum of three years
    - invitation from the employer which is send for consideration in the immigration office.
    - eventually a visa.
    Upon arrival in NL you have 7 days to report to the immigration office and show:
    - the work contract, signed by all parties
    - relevant diploma's translated and verified by attorney
    - birth certificate translated and verified
    - medical insurance
    - bank account
    - registered (in the city hall) permanent address

    Officially no one can exists in NL without the above. To me the tales of US citizen living without a bank account or medical insurance or an address are shocking. In a good way. Failing any of the above you are sent home and must start the procedure again. I had one letter mistake in the translation of my birth certificate and it took 3 officials from the University to call so that I am given 7 more days to obtain the proper one (so my parents had to spend quite some money to arrange it quick and send it via DHL).

    Then, on the 3rd year of uninterrupted employment (1 day without a job and the counter is reset) you get residence permit which allows you to apply freely for work. If you manage to secure 5 years of uninterrupted employment you get permanent residence permit and from that moment on you are as good as being Dutch. Most PhD's cannot get a job on the next day after the PhD ends. So what we did is pair with partner that has an income, who can then attest to the authorities that he/she will support you while you look for the next contract. If you don't have such person, you go home.

    How can anyone complain about freedom when you don't even have voter ID is beyond me. And some of the critics in the tread are Europeans, even Brits! Brits deriding the US for freedom.....WOW, just WOW!

    In NL you public transport card has a picture of you, is connected to your bank account and it has your BSN number (unique ID for every citizen) on it! On the bloody public transport card. You have anonymous cards but guess what - you can't get the subscription deals on those. You want the best deal - picture, BSN number and bank account, please!

    Everyone of us is under constant surveillance on every possible level - border control, driving, public transport, financial transactions, place of residence, property and wealth, place of work, medical history and so on....few years ago I tried riding a bike through A'dam while wearing mountaineers hoodie that closes the whole face leaving slits for the eyes. In 3 minutes I was stopped by the police. They did not want to hear that I would of course remove it if I enter anything else than my home. No. 4 weeks ago the police checked me while I was waiting the barber to open for a haircut on a Sunday. The residents called the police because I had a hoodie on and was "looking at the parked cars". In NL the police can give you trouble if you carry long screwdriver for your bike because it is a "weapon". No shit! The list is endless...

    Oh yhea, fingerprints....when I get new passport in my country (EU), when I get the renewed permit for NL, when traveling to US, Russia, China....there can be more I do not know...there was a discussion above about fingerprinting travelers to EU - yes you get that too, sorry!

    If US is a tyranny then Europe is a fascist hellhole!

    P.S> I never had any issues with jumping through all the hoops of the immigration process. Their country, their rules. Now I am told that I am here because of white male privileged and we should wave any requirement for economic migrants (these are not asylum seekers) because their skin color makes them better humans than my skin color. Fuck you!

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