China Boosts Government Presence At Alibaba, Private Giants (bloomberg.com) 74
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: The government of one of China's top technology hubs is dispatching officials to 100 local corporations including e-commerce giant Alibaba, the latest effort to exert greater influence over the country's massive private sector. Hangzhou, in the eastern province of Zhejiang, is assigning government affairs representatives to facilitate communication and expedite projects, the city government said on its website. Chinese beverage giant Hangzhou Wahaha and automaker Zhejiang Geely are among the other companies based in the prosperous region that have been singled out, according to reports in state media.
The Hangzhou government said the initiative was aimed at smoothing work flow between officials and China's high-tech companies and manufacturers. But the move could be perceived also as an effort to keep tabs on a non state-owned sector that's gaining clout as a prime driver of the world's No. 2 economy. Representatives of the country's public security system are already embedded within China's largest internet companies, responsible for crime prevention and stamping out false rumors. Government agencies may also be heightening their monitoring of the vast private sector at a time China's economy is decelerating -- raising the prospect of destabilizing job cuts as enterprises try to protect bottom lines. Alibaba is hosting its annual investors' conference this week in Hangzhou against the backdrop of a worsening outlook for the country.
The Hangzhou government said the initiative was aimed at smoothing work flow between officials and China's high-tech companies and manufacturers. But the move could be perceived also as an effort to keep tabs on a non state-owned sector that's gaining clout as a prime driver of the world's No. 2 economy. Representatives of the country's public security system are already embedded within China's largest internet companies, responsible for crime prevention and stamping out false rumors. Government agencies may also be heightening their monitoring of the vast private sector at a time China's economy is decelerating -- raising the prospect of destabilizing job cuts as enterprises try to protect bottom lines. Alibaba is hosting its annual investors' conference this week in Hangzhou against the backdrop of a worsening outlook for the country.
It's Working .... It's Working ! (Score:2)
Sending 100's of "officials" to top tech to get them in line.
I'm sure this will end well.
Re:It's Working .... It's Working ! (Score:5, Informative)
Sending 100's of "officials" to top tech to get them in line.
No, that is not what this is about. This is the city of Hangzhou, not the central CCP. Hangzhou is located about 2 hours by train south of Shanghai, and is one of the most liberal and prosperous cities, in one of the most liberal and prosperous regions, in all of China.
The goal is likely exactly what they say it is: To facilitate communication and cooperation between the city government and the companies that do business there, for the benefit of both the companies and the residents of Hangzhou. Zhejiang Province in general, and Hangzhou in particular, has a reputation for being very business friendly.
Not everything that happens in China is evil. You should get a passport and go there. You will be shocked at how different it is from the propaganda that the media is spoon feeding you. Be sure to visit Hangzhou, take a long hike around West Lake [wikipedia.org]. Hangzhou is a beautiful city, full of history and friendly people.
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Sending 100's of "officials" to top tech to get them in line.
No, that is not what this is about. This is the city of Hangzhou, not the central CCP. Hangzhou is located about 2 hours by train south of Shanghai, and is one of the most liberal and prosperous cities, in one of the most liberal and prosperous regions, in all of China.
The goal is likely exactly what they say it is: To facilitate communication and cooperation between the city government and the companies that do business there, for the benefit of both the companies and the residents of Hangzhou. Zhejiang Province in general, and Hangzhou in particular, has a reputation for being very business friendly.
Not everything that happens in China is evil. You should get a passport and go there. You will be shocked at how different it is from the propaganda that the media is spoon feeding you. Be sure to visit Hangzhou, take a long hike around West Lake [wikipedia.org]. Hangzhou is a beautiful city, full of history and friendly people.
I have a good friend from China, he even talks shit sometimes. But he does visit family.
Do you have any credentials or sources to back your narrative?
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Do you have any credentials or sources to back your narrative?
You don't need to rely on me to educate you. Hangzhou and Zhejiang are not obscure places. You can start by reading their Wikipedia pages: Hangzhou [wikipedia.org], Zhejiang [wikipedia.org].
If you listed the thousand biggest cities in China in order of where a plot to reimpose dogmatic Marxism is likely to occur, Hangzhou would be at the absolute bottom of the list, likely behind even Shenzhen and Guangzhou. It is at the epicenter of Chinese market capitalism.
Since you asked about my credentials, I lived in Shanghai for several years,
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So thank you for your comments. At least you've been there.
Re: It's Working .... It's Working ! (Score:2)
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Ah, I see you haven't been to London.
Re: It's Working .... It's Working ! (Score:2)
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China is the only place I couldn't breathe the air...
You've never been to Los Angeles then?
It is better than it was went I was there in 1989, but it is still not great.
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Can confirm. Guangzhou is like a European city in many parts, full of high end boutiques, shopping centres and cafes selling expensive coffee.
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I prefer a fork because I am not Asian, but that is neither here nor there.
I read the FA, then went to a source it quoted (a Chinese source, which Google was kind enough to translate for my barbarian self), and even a couple of other places after Googling "New Manufacturing Plan". My impression is that the Chinese source sort of assumes I know what that is, and the Western press is vague about it.
One source says Hangzhou is sending officials to the companies, another says China, one refers to Alibaba's New
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Hong Kong is even more liberal and business friendly. How is that working out for them?
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Hong Kong is even more liberal and business friendly. How is that working out for them?
Hong Kong's problem is that they don't actually produce anything. They are a financial and transit center. But Shanghai is already a far bigger financial center. Ningbo (adjacent to Hangzhou in Zhejiang) is now the world's busiest container port, and is closer to North America than Hong Kong. Even in the Pearl River delta, Hong Kong is being eclipsed by Shenzhen which how has nearly twice the population.
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Shanghai is nowhere near the top 5 financial centers of the world: Switzerland, New York, London, Singapore and of course, Hong Kong. China's so-called 'financial centers' can never touch these 5 until they learned what 'rule of law' really means.
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Yea there was a lot of flower waving and merriment and all round joy in Germany in 1930s too.
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I think there is a bit more to it than that. It seems the government of China is fully cognisant of impact of corruption upon the economy and how much of a destructive economic cancer it is. This closer association is to gained more information for data mining and to crack down hard on corruption, at all levels.
It's the all at once thing, although over a billion people, talk about sending 100 officials is neither here nor there, we you talk china, you kinda talk sending out thousands of officials, maybe th
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Oh? The CCP's interest in Hong Kong is fighting corruption? The CCP is the font of corruption in China. If anything, their problem is there is not enough CCP corruption in Hong Kong.
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Errm....what about the CCP is it you are particularly blind to? It is precisely because Hangzhou is liberal and prosperous that it represents a threat to the CCP. It represents an alternate source of power that the CCP cannot tolerate. The only thing those officials can do is screw things up.
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There should be no work flow between officials and private enterprise. That you cannot have truly private enterprises in a Socialist country is half the problem.
Re:It's Working .... It's Working ! (Score:5, Insightful)
"The goal is likely exactly what they say it is: To facilitate communication and cooperation between the city government and the companies that do business there, for the benefit of both the companies and the residents of Hangzhou."
HAhahahahahahahah
"Not everything that happens in China is evil. You should get a passport and go there."
You know what you would find if you went there? Telephones. They don't need a government official on site to help them communicate because they can pick up the fucking phone and do that, or send an email.
The only reason they would need a government official on site is to make decisions and tell them how to run their company.
Your suggestion that these people are there to aid with communications is the ridiculous one, and your attempt to paint those who have noticed as somehow prejudiced by something other than the lessons of history is at best a transparent attempt at self-aggrandizement.
"Hangzhou is a beautiful city, full of history and friendly people."
And saying so is a derailment tactic, because it is wholly irrelevant to the point at hand. If you get near a valid point, let us know so we can start paying attention again.
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Sure, its 'beautiful' if you are member of the ruling class, i don't doubt that for a second. Planning to move to China soon Bill? One can always count on you to sell yourself to the highest bidder
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Sending 100's of "officials" to top tech to get them in line.
I'm sure this will end well.
I do not see the point. They already had the party line keep them in line.
That is how a "communist" dictatorship works. There is the official command chain. This one is clearly visible. There is the party command chain which commands the official one and reports on it. This one is less visible, but not obviously hidden. There is the security apparatus command chain which commands the first two and reports on them. It is generally hidden, but it is there. Then, there is the party line command chain on the
What's their future? (Score:2)
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Don't worry. They won't know
Re: What's their future? (Score:2)
Like they have an option? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: Like they have an option? (Score:2)
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It's a dictatorship/socialist government.
China is not a dictatorship, since there is not a dictator. It is a mildly authoritarian state.
Then, of course, they are socialists, that is why people of humble origins often sit at the top of their government, while in America you have an establishment tool after another one at the top spots.
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Jinping is not a dictator? Hello?? Ruler for Life, what gave it away, eh?
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USA had no presidential term limits until the 40's. Just like China. And if you think it can't happen again you need a kick in your big fat caboose.
There will be no new constitutional convention in the US until the revolution comes. Never again will that country be coherent enough in culture and policy to allow it, short of another civil war. The thing is, there is no way to have a limited constitutional convention. Once one is called, anything can be changed, to include such things as the 2nd and 10th amendments, or adding an anti-abortion amendment. Something as simple as changing the 22nd isn't going to happen.
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China isn't socialist. There isn't really a good word in English for what China is.
The government does not help people directly, there is no welfare state or free healthcare or any of the other typical hallmarks of socialism. The government controls the economy, similar to many capitalist states but with a bit more direct control. Rather than just using a central bank and monetary policy they have more direct means of making their wishes known. They don't run those companies or direct what they produce thou
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The government does not help people directly, there is no welfare state or free healthcare or any of the other typical hallmarks of socialism. The government controls the economy, similar to many capitalist states but with a bit more direct control.
So you're saying that China is a socialist country without the few benefits that socialism has to offer?
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More like a capitalist country where instead of companies controlling the government through corruption the government controls the companies.
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If you are being held captive by the Chinese government and being forced to write this propaganda on Slashdot-- respond with a comment stating how much you love China.
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Do you actually believe for a single moment that the Chinese government really gives a rats' ass whether or not the people are 'happy'
Yes. They absolutely care if the people are happy.
The government of China is not elected and has no democratic mandate. Nor, since they abandoned communism, do they have any unifying ideology. Their only legitimacy comes from their ability to deliver economic growth and prosperity. They have done that better than any other government ever in the history of the world over the last three decades.
Chinese are more likely than any other country to feel their country is going in the right direction [visualcapitalist.com]. China i
Three decades of success due to US policy (Score:3, Insightful)
heir only legitimacy comes from their ability to deliver economic growth and prosperity. They have done that better than any other government ever in the history of the world over the last three decades
Partially correct. They have been so successful at it though beggar-thy-neighbor economic policies. These policies were tolerated by the US government since their initiation in the late 1960s early 1970s because the US government had a political motivation that they believed outweighed the economic costs. They believed that increased interaction with the west would liberalize the government. That failed as we saw at Tiananmen Square in 1989. However Wall Street was making a lot of money of the policy so the
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America thought the Chinese would just be a very large docile consumer base that America could sell things to and make tons of money.
It turned out America was full of docile consumers instead, and the boot ended up being on the other foot.
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Not even close. Wall Street wanted another source of cheap labor. They got it, and a whole lot more that they didn't expect (IP theft, mostly). The whole idea was to manufacture a bunch of cheap crap and sell it to Americans. It was never the idea to enrich China in the process, or leave them with so much valuable IP.
Nobody really thought China would buy our stuff, except ag products.
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Nobody really thought China would buy our stuff, except ag products.
Century after century there is no shortage of delusional western companies thinking they can sell things to China. Its the same today, whether software, office equipment, jet engines or cars. They can't resist applying that college freshman business student sort of logic: if I can just sell to 1 in N ... adjust N for the target market. Add the college sophomore sort of logic: Partnering with a local is OK, 50% of "a lot" is still pretty good. Soon to be followed by: Oh sh*t, my partners and their staff have
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Based on their human rights/civil rights record ...
Yet Americans are four times more likely to be arrested and imprisoned by their government.
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Re: What's their future? (Score:2)
We do have the biggest gulag in the world. That's not a defense of the Chinese government, at all. But it's certainly a indictment of our government and society.
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2. "We're at least as bad in {insert cherrypicked way here} so we have no room to talk" is not a valid argument it's bullshit. BAD IS BAD and they're BAD.
You're disingenuous-as-fuck when you say "That's not a defense of the Chinese government", it's back-handed but it's precisely that.
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If HK were in France or the United States, there wouldn't be some whacked extradition treaty and there wouldn't be protests on that scale.
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Seriously? China has 1-1.5 million prisoners in Xinxiang alone (we can't be sure, since the Chicoms don't want anyone to really know about the numbers). Of course it's all a vocational training program. Heh.
The United States has a current prison population of around 2.3 million. Part of the reason why we have this kind of prison population is that Americans know they can't be executed for much of anything except maybe murder (and it has to be pretty bad). Meanwhile, in China:
https://www.hri.global/files [www.hri.global]
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The United States has a current prison population of around 2.3 million.
America also has a quarter of China's population.
Per capita, Americans are four times more likely to be imprisoned.
Things that make our shit show a little better (Score:2)
In the world of totalitarian governments, this is the front door compromise of corporations used by government information gatherers.
The back door is still reserved for export products.
Hey, let's copy the USSR (Score:2)
East Germany (Score:2)
This is closer to East Germany, where the Stasi employed a significant chunk of the population to spy on the rest. China is just more efficient at it.
Bye China, wannabe super power (Score:2)
Served their purpose (Score:2)
Now that Jack Ma has resigned like a rock star wannabe lip syncing a crap song [baidu.com] the personality that built the company is no longer in the way.
Building the techniques and technology in China, so that western governments can deploy the fully developed technology into western democracies. The fruit of globalization is to export labor and undermine the law governing it then to import surveillance whilst undermining the laws that govern that. Slowly, creeping, law by law, right by right until communism conve
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You act as if Ma had a choice. He was only the party figurehead to begin with.
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You act as if Ma had a choice. He was only the party figurehead to begin with.
Good point, probably the conversation went something like "Resign and get on the back of this truck and do a shitty cover of this shitty song or life for your family will become difficult."
I wonder if he asked "How difficult?"
Alibaba admin password (Score:2)
The government got the tip from Cassim in a fit of jealous rage when Ali Baba managed to aggregate google searches with help from the evil Americans of the West. This is just another example of China trying to make sure that search information about what is really happening in the west is closely monitored. As t
Re: Alibaba admin password (Score:2)
"They have already won the war on our core economy"
FTFY :(
They're just making it official (Score:2)
Most of the companies in China have senior execs who are communist party members. The China (NOT) Communist Party has always ensured that state companies are aligned with its objectives and vice versa. In (NOT) Communist China corporate and state objectives are usually one and the same.
Retirement (Score:1)
and the first step of them screwing up just began (Score:2)
When I see something like this, it's usually the "jump the shark time"
leave the success side alone and add gentle pressure, and don't make it so obvious. when your 100 " enablers figure out that they are the crown princes from the capitol, they will screw up the firms to line their own pockets.
I forgot which chinese mayor it was that was found out to have USD 800 million in cash offshore, he was sentenced to death anyway when he was caught back around 19990-2003. Worst part about the whole ordeal was that h
I doubt it (Score:2)
Same as always (Score:1)
The CCP always required a party member on the board of any corporation formed in the PRC.
There was never any legal direct sales for foreign corps. in the PRC.
To sell there foreign entities had to find an approved Chinese partner and then the new corp. formed would have to have a party member on its board.
Many corps. are also just extensions of various government agencies.
re (Score:1)