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Government China Privacy United States

Grindr Let Chinese Engineers See Data From Millions of Americans (reuters.com) 159

Posted by EditorDavid from the swiping-right dept.
JustAnotherOldGuy shared this story from Reuters: Early last year, Grindr LLC's Chinese owner gave some Beijing-based engineers access to personal information of millions of Americans such as private messages and HIV status, according to eight former employees, prompting U.S. officials to ask it to sell the dating app for the gay community.
Engadget explains what the concerns were about Grindr's owner, Beijing Kunlun: Reuters sources have claimed that Beijing Kunlun triggered alarms after it gave engineers in Beijing access to Grindr's database for several months. While there wasn't evidence that the company misused the data, the tipsters believe the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) was worried that the Chinese government could comb the database to find info on US intelligence and military personnel.
Engadget says the confrontation "reflects the U.S. government's increasingly strict approach to Chinese companies -- it doesn't want even the slightest risk of China's having access to private information."
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Grindr Let Chinese Engineers See Data From Millions of Americans More

Grindr Let Chinese Engineers See Data From Millions of Americans

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  • Like Facebook and Amazon (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Social media. Woot!

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Engadget says the confrontation "reflects the U.S. government's increasingly strict approach to Chinese companies -- it doesn't want even the slightest risk of China's having access to private information."

      Well, this is new... Normally the gov't has been actively complicit in the gathering and storing of people's private information. There is even an entire data center in Utah devoted to that stuff.

      Hopefully this new trend continues!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It's just that the farmer is tired of his neighbor (also a farmer) continually counting his livestock.

      • Re: Like Facebook and Amazon (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Yeah why is this news. In any other country do you expect any newspaper to run a report on Google or Amazon allowing American engineers to see data from millions of its citizens?

  • What is the goal? (Score:3)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @03:40AM (#58660932) Journal
    I know that Trump has his trade war going on with China, but what is the goal? What is he trying to get from China exactly? I haven't seen that stated anywhere.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by lkcl ( 517947 )

      I know that Trump has his trade war going on with China, but what is the goal? What is he trying to get from China exactly? I haven't seen that stated anywhere.

      this should give you a clue - in the form of statistical empirical evidence that is increasing in frequency - that he is not acting in the National Sovereign interests of the United States and its citizens.

      if you voted such a person into power, you get to live with the consequences. you know what to do.

      • Because we would NEVER want China to cut the tariffs they apply to US goods (tariffs which are, on average, 2.5 times that of the US). Because we would NEVER want China to respect the regulations and rules of the WIPO to which they are a signatory. Because we would NEVER want China to stop making forced technology transfer a requirement before setting up business in specific industries. No. Orange Man Bad!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      A political win for Trump's base. Wha? You thought there was some grand policy?

      • What if it turns out that most of his political opponents on the left never supported laissez-faire trade in the first place?

        Will that somewhat complicate the ability to turn it into a political victory?

        Especially when he's constantly threatening to run off on vacation with Xi and sign a deal that undoes that whole policy. That means American business can't really make investments to benefit from the trade war. We're approaching an election, and Dems are already running on this point.

    • Re:What is the goal? (Score:4, Informative)

      by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:40PM (#58662714) Journal
      Google is your friend [scmp.com] for search. Equalize the tariffs in China (China has about 2.5 times the average tariff on US goods as the US does on Chinese goods), and stop forcing technology transfers of companies that build products in China. Of course, these goals make sense - and thus, can't be talked about because it would destroy the talking point of Orange Man Bad.

      • Equalize the tariffs in China (China has about 2.5 times the average tariff on US goods as the US does on Chinese goods), and stop forcing technology transfers of companies that build products in China.

        All other things being equal, this would make sense. But China doesn't buy nearly as much from the US as they export, and the US has whole segments of manufacturing which have been completely replaced by overseas imports. The trade war is really just a bluff, and China knows damn well they can call us on it.

        • China calls us on it - they lose. WE buy more from them than the other way around, which means cuts in sales affects them more than us. China is already teetering on a recession, and has not experienced one in 2 generations. When the economy stumbles and retracts, it's going to shake the entire nation to its core.

          • WE buy more from them than the other way around, which means cuts in sales affects them more than us.

            Many of the goods we import from China are simply no longer manufactured here. It's like when my lone source of broadband access decides to jack up the prices - my choices are to open my wallet wider, or go without broadband.

            As an example, this window air conditioner [archive.org] was $112 back in 2016 - it has since increased in cost by 21.4%. (and similar models, all made-in-China, are going for even more at other retailers) You'd think Walmart would be sitting on piles of unsold air conditioners with that kind of a

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        His efforts seem to be having the opposite effect. Tariffs are going up, and the recent liberalization of foreign investment and subsidiaries in China is being rolled back.

        Either way, Trump has one huge disadvantage. China can play the long game and wait him out. There is a decent chance he won't be around after 2020, and whoever replaces him will be under pressure to stop the economic damage of the tariffs and retaliation.

        • You know why China is cutting back on those investments and subsidiaries? It's because that was one of the few LEGAL means of moving your RMB out of China, in big quantities. Set up a subsidiary with a foreign company. Invest your millions of USD into it. Go visit the overseas branch in the EU or the US. Pull/sell a big chunk of your stake in the company when overseas. Bingo - instant transfer of a few million USD. Outside of that, you would have been limited to no more than $50,000 USD (or equivalen

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            No, I mean China was removing some of the requirements for foreign companies to set up in China, like the need to have majority Chinese ownership of the subsidiary.

            • Only in specific industries; in many others, they are still restricting. And much of that is, again, about keeping currency flight to a minimum. A lot of the tech money on the West Coast of North America (Vancouver BC down to San Diego) came from rich Chinese "partnering" with a foreign company.

              Since many industries did (and many still do) require majority Chinese ownership, the foreign company would look for a compliant, passive investor who may own the majority of the company but would stay out of the w

      • The goals make sense but Trump is attacking it from the dumbest way possible. He's isolated America diplomatically from her traditional allies such as Europe, Canada, and South Korea. There's only limited amount of leverage available to us as a result. Then he does dumb shit like declare Huawei off-limits without achieving any sort of consensus with our allies, which confuses the entire point of the trade war. Were we trying to achieve "legitimate" ends or are we using national security FUD as a crutch to p

        • WHEN were those "allies" ever aligned with Trump? If anything, it looks like many of them were directly involved in the setup/hoax to get him tossed from office. South Korea certainly seems to like what's happening though, and the Taiwanese are fine. The EU and UK? Considering they were up to their necks in the dossier hoax, they didn't want to be an ally in the first second, let alone now...
    • It's been stated lots of times. The goal is to combat/disrupt/discourage Chinese dumping of consumer and industrial goods (and this is the new one) services onto the American market and the heavy handed tactics and theft of intellectual property that enable it. Outside of military contracts, and a small number of "build it here" clauses in contracts for things like small arms or subway cars, the United States has no policy that foreign corporations are required to divulge their intellectual property in orde

      • The goal is to combat/disrupt/discourage Chinese dumping of consumer and industrial goods (and this is the new one) services onto the American market

        The intentions may be noble, but in actual practice China keeps up business as usual and American consumers foot the bill for the tariffs.

        • That's today. In the long run, tariffs, if properly applied, will discourage future investment in China in favor of investment domestically and in allied countries.

    • I know that Trump has his trade war going on with China, but what is the goal?

      The goal is pandering to his support base, who don't realize it's going to hit them in the pocketbook when they go shopping at Walmart.

      Also, you know all those tax breaks Trump gave to wealthy businesses? We've got to pay for that somehow. Guess who bears the biggest burden of "consumption taxes" (which is what tariffs ultimately are)? The poor and middle classes.

      My apologies to those on the right end of the political spectrum who can't tell the difference between an excuse and a reason. China being a h

  • Meh. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Americans have seen data from many millions of Chinese and billions of foreigners. What's the problem?

    Do as you would be done by.

    The USA is setting a *very* bad example as to how they want to be treated. Not that it is any worse than most other countries.

  • hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lkcl ( 517947 ) <lkcl@lkcl.net> on Monday May 27, 2019 @04:03AM (#58660996) Homepage

    it doesn't want even the slightest risk of China's having access to private information.

    ... however the US having access to private information about US and European citizens is okay, on the basis that, "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?"

    • Worse hypocrisy (Score:4, Informative)

      by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @04:19AM (#58661042) Journal
      The hypocrisy is even worse: the US has specific laws to compel US companies to disclose private information on non-US citizens to the US government even if that data is not held in the US. It has even gone so far as to take companies to court over this.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Even worse, this hypocrisy is now fully publicly on display and who complained when the Russia government required data held about Russia citizens in Russians be entirely on servers inside of Russia. The rest of the world is paying attention and US tech companies are being economically crippled by these actions.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 )

      Thats pretty much the mantra. I find religion makes the same distinction with the added ‘do as I say, not as I do.’ Twist. World domination has little room for competition. As the list dwindles down it gets real Highlander-like. There can be only one.

  • More risk from local data users (Score:5, Insightful)

    by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @04:17AM (#58661038)

    While allowing foreign countries to see data is bad, I think the risk of local government agencies having the data is far higher. There isn't really that much the Chinese government is likely to do to me because we don't interact much. They could prevent me from visiting again but that isn't a huge hardship.

    My government on the other hand: could put me on a no fly list - with no recourse. Deny me a security clearance - with no recourse. Put me on a terrorist watch list - where I"m more likely to be interrogated. If I run for office, local groups could post embarrassing information about me. Local police could raid my office. Customs could detain me at the border.

    Companies with my personal information can change the prices I see when I buy things online, limit my ability to get credit. Know to what extent I"m likely to sue or return bad products etc. Change the price of my insurance.

    The risks of personal information are greatest locally where there is more interaction, much less serious for foreign agencies.

    • There isn't really that much the Chinese government is likely to do to me because we don't interact much.

      They could sell your data to your own government, directly or indirectly. Don't be daft.

  • If they're not already doing so, a Grindr database would obviously be a goldmine for marketing types. At least I can't see China flogging this information

  • "slightest risk" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wild_quinine ( 998562 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @04:38AM (#58661102)

    it doesn't want even the slightest risk of China's having access to private information.

    If engineers in Beijing had access to their databases for several months, that's not "the slightest risk". That's a virtual certainty this information is now in the hands of the Chinese Government. I mean, come on, if Google was doing work to support China's "Social Credit" system I'd fully expect the five eyes to have ten copies by lunchtime. What, are we supposed the believe the Chinese Government is somehow less likely to spy that our own?

    • I mean, come on, if Google was doing work to support China's "Social Credit" system I'd fully expect the five eyes to have ten copies by lunchtime.

      And just like Facebook can track information about people who aren't Facebook users, China can be creating social credit scores for people who aren't Chinese citizens. Yet.

  • What the problem? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "While there wasn't evidence that the company misused the data."

    Software engineers having access to company's database is news now? Having worked as a back-end system developer for an global asset management company, the majority of the mid-level and up software engineers have admin access to development databases that keep snapshots of production data to do software development.

  • Yellow Man BAD (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Orange Man GOOD

  • Who's going to jail for this? No one? Though so. Why even report it?
  • bought grindr. Given the sensitive nature of that app you'd think it would have been a deal breaker for the users (at least the closeted ones).

  • This is actually a good thing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:41PM (#58662722) Journal

    Even though we are past the days of "don't ask, don't tell", being LGBTQ can still carry a stigma. This can be used to cultivate contacts for espionage. You know, something like a Chinese agent hooking up with a military person who has access to data. Followed by, "I'll help you keep this from your CO if you help me out a little. I just want to know when they're going to test that new radar. I think it's cool". No big deal. The date isn't particularly classified so the person tells the agent. Now the guilt builds on the previous guilt. Our person could stop it right there, confess to a minor breach, out the agent... but a sometimes people get sucked in. It escalates from there, perhaps all the way to something like the Walker spy ring if the agent is lucky.

    In other words, foreign agents are kind of like salesmen and/or pushers. There's no reason to let them build a list of qualified leads.

    • much more likely the data would be used by marketers, it's very valuable that way. Meds, lifestyle specific advertising.... oh yes

    • I agree. In fact, I'd go so far as to say these agents would have a duty to acquire this information, if they could.
  • I feel that the current anti-China attitude in the US is a bit overblown, but there's a good point here.

    The US government has the legal power to take data from US companies. It does this on a regular basis. The Chinese government has the legal power to take data from Chinese companies. It does this on a regular basis. This is just the standard way governments operate. Don't like it? Too bad. Governments can override companies. Doesn't matter the system. Capitalist, socialist, communist, monarchy, what

  • I always assume all companies have access to their own datas. :(

  • OK, China, show us all the data you have on which Republican senators are all over the Grindr.

    We wonâ(TM)t even get mad.

  • So what? The US have access to private data of politically active EU citizens. Just search for NationBuilder...
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  • hello every one, i want to thank Dr Obi for making me whole again. i was diagnosed with HIV disease 2years ago through sexual intercourse, and i have been on ARV for the past years and i feel uncomfortable taking this medication. i have searched every corner of this earth for remedy to help me get rid of this disease, not until i went online and i saw a woman called Mathilda giving testimony of a man named Dr Obi whom helped her with NATIVE REMEDY FOR HIV VIRUS( NRHV ), And i contacted Mathilda to get more

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