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The Courts United States Technology

Car Rental Company Hertz Sues Accenture Over $32M Website Project (theregister.co.uk) 191

Car rental giant Hertz is suing consultancy firm Accenture over a website redesign. From a report: The US corporation hired monster management consultancy firm Accenture in August 2016 to completely revamp its online presence. The new site was due to go live in December 2017. But a failure to get on top of things led to a delay to January 2018, and then a second delay to April 2018 which was then also missed, we're told. As Hertz endured the delays, it found itself immersed in a nightmare: a product and design that apparently didn't do half of what was specified and still wasn't finished. "By that point, Hertz no longer had any confidence that Accenture was capable of completing the project, and Hertz terminated Accenture," the car rental company complained in a lawsuit lodged against Accenture in New York this month.

Hertz is suing for the $32m it paid Accenture in fees to get to that aborted stage, and it wants more millions to cover the cost of fixing the mess. "Accenture never delivered a functional website or mobile app," Hertz claimed. Accenture told El Reg on Tuesday this week it believes Hertz's lawsuit is "without merit."

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Car Rental Company Hertz Sues Accenture Over $32M Website Project

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  • by JeffSh ( 71237 ) <jeffslashdot@[ ]0.org ['m0m' in gap]> on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:17PM (#58483420)

    It is 2019. If you do not have the willingness to invest in operate and run your own software stack, you're not going to succeed in the long term as a business.

    consultancies held at arms length will never know your business to the level of detail they need to, and will always be subject to requirements that are poorly defined or impossible to deliver on.

    sure, internal stuff can be subject to the same problems, but it need not be.

    • the problem I see is that employee churn at these contractors is very high and the goal is to get a few points on a resume so they can move on to the next project.

      Companies have been treating employees as disposable for 20 years now and, well, a lot of employees have started doing the same.

      On the plus side (for the companies that is) we're heading for another Global Recession so I suspect that'll end soon, but for right this moment jobs aren't something you think of long term, they're a stepping sto
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Users are incapable of giving requirements. You need to be able to understand their problem and deliver a solution quickly and get feedback. How long have we known this now? How many agile trainings have been delivered? ...and this still fucking eludes everyone.
      • There are strong short term incentives to make getting it wrong much more likely. The drivers of the project want to downplay the risks. The vendor wants to downplay the risks (figuring if they can get it half working, the customer will be practically forced to cough up the money to finish it). The CEO and board want feel like they are adding value by driving down the nominal price tag via second guessing the project leader.

        I once worked in a company that did big enterprise projects, competing directly w

    • I think there's a lot of merit to your argument that these projects are better tackled with in-house staff. I've worked at places where projects were handled internally, while others used consulting firms and it truly is the former where the projects better achieve the goals in the intended time-frame.

      Ultimately though? I think it always comes down to the money. The employers who hire permanent staff as their developers for an in-house application are saddled with that endless, ongoing expense of paying th

      • Re: consultants (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @01:42PM (#58484118) Homepage

        Consulting Motto

        "If you're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem."

        Sounds like someone as Accenture was taking that to heart.

        • Quite often you don't need to put any effort into prolonging the problem. Just keep on delivering what your customer wants. When they change their mind send them a bill.

      • by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        The answer to this really is "staff augmentation". I hate to say this but my observation is this model works. I hate it because I have been the programmer wonder if the pink slip is coming and if my seat will be filled with a contractor. I have been the team lead jealously wanting to maintain my direct reports etc.

        The think is you need to manage the technical aspects of the project in house. You need have your own senior level people, though they don't have to be super stars, to call the architectural s

      • With consultants, you can at least in theory pay them an agreed upon figure, expect a certain result, and then stop paying them until the next time you need assistance with it.

        As I am sure you already understand, the rub is that "certain result" part is a dubious assertion. The complexity of requirements is really easy to underestimate, and hired guns do not automatically get it right, just because you are betting $10m or $100m that they will.

  • by jabberw0k ( 62554 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:18PM (#58483422) Homepage Journal
    No clear definition of work to be done, no completion dates, just and endless busy-work treadmill that never actually finishes anything. As explained to our user group by a consulting company who happily explained to us that no, they don't do "Maintenance work" nor do they have repeat clients. Hmm.
    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:59PM (#58483762)
      From the story, it seems that Hertz had clear requirements that were outright ignored or deemed undoable late into development and would cost extra. Two cited examples were that 1) It should work with variable displays from including desktops, laptops, tablets, and phones and 2) the guide should not be in PDF format.
    • by Luthair ( 847766 )

      You seem confused about what agile is - its simply about breaking the problem down into digestible chunks, and having the team commit commit to getting specific work done in a time period. This puts more control back in the hands of the developer, and help management understand progress as well as better predict how long things will take.

      Recall that the way we used to do things was waterfall which meant the dev team would disappear for a year or two and emerge with maybe something.

      The rest of it sounds like

      • Exactly. An agile form of website design is to deliver an MVP part of their website working ASAP, and get continuous feedback .

        Getting to the tail end of 32 million dollars before you realize the whole project is a flop is the diametric opposite of agile. That classic waterfall.

        And agile site redesign would have been broken down into small changes bit by bit and would have been delivered incrementally. The nice thing about websites is that you can change the styles of your existing site to match the new one

      • Agile is a manifesto, you are thinking of formal 'agile' methods like scrum (spit).

        At the end of the day, scrum is basically fast iteration waterfall with all steps renamed and extra useless meetings.

    • A clearly specced project needn't be developed with agile software development methods. Hertz migrating their web setup to a new level is no where near anything requiring agility. It does however require people who know what they are doing. And, yes, those who don't often like to throw buzzwords around without having the faintest idea of their meaning. And yes "Agile" is one of those words these days. The correct term btw. is "agility". And it's required for customers who don't know what they want until you

  • Accenture (Score:5, Interesting)

    by whitroth ( 9367 ) <whitroth@5-BOHRcent.us minus physicist> on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:22PM (#58483450) Homepage

    Back in the mid-nineties, when they were still Anderson Consulting, I worked with a ton of them. Mostly right out of college. Really bright people... with *NO* experience in the real world of programming.

    And the way Anderson treated them... I'll bet $5 that the team(s) working on the Hertz website and app were working 50 or 60 hours a week, and breaking 70 some weeks, and having to respond to calls and texts at all hours, with no chance at ever getting comp time, and, why, you're listed as a contractor, and the NLRB website has rules making it next to impossible to form a union.

    You think I'm exaggerating? I knew one guy who told me that one week, he'd put in 119 hours. I'm NOT exaggerating, and they "helped" him do it.

    But we don't need unions (or holidays, or vacation time, or time when you're not working)....

    • Re:Accenture (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tomhath ( 637240 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:29PM (#58483524)

      I'll bet $5 that the team(s) working on the Hertz website and app were working 50 or 60 hours a week

      You can bet more than $5 that the teams working on this were in India and have no idea how a car rental company in the US operates.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:47PM (#58483670) Journal

      The libertarian argument is that the 119 hour guy can go elsewhere if he doesn't like the conditions; nobody is forcing him to work there.

      I've personally been in a similar boat during a recession and it's not pleasant. Not a lot of alternatives during recessions. It's my opinion that unions and regulations offer a safety net to make the road of life less bumpy. True, you may not fly as high during good times, but won't crash as hard during the bad times.

      Libertarians would probably counter that a rough and tumble life strengthens discipline and weeds out "loser" genetics from the population.

      They have their right to want to make life like a giant horse farm and/or a corporate Mad Max style world, but they can't force others to agree with such a system (or lack of system). There's no universal logic of the uniserve that dictates how civilization "should be" ran; it can only tell us trade-offs at best.

      The libertarian may counter that bad things will happen if humans are not "properly" bred and/or disciplined, but their line of reasoning has too many speculative layers and assumptions about the future to be taken as a definitive answer. It's just a big guess. My big guess is just as valid.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Solandri ( 704621 )

        I've personally been in a similar boat during a recession and it's not pleasant. Not a lot of alternatives during recessions. It's my opinion that unions and regulations offer a safety net to make the road of life less bumpy. True, you may not fly as high during good times, but won't crash as hard during the bad times.

        If you're working on your own, you're responsible for yourself. That means building up a big enough nest egg to get you through recessions and tough times. If you fail to do that, the fault

        • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

          That means building up a big enough nest egg to get you through recessions and tough times.

          I did, but when I got married and had kids, the nest egg went kaflooey. If you haven't done so, you may not understand.

          And it's up to each individual to figure out which works best for them

          It may take several years of (bad) experience to learn the right fit. It's not like we can just change life's channels.

          The Liberal philosophy is that everyone needs a heavily-structured union/government labor program.

          You are exagge

        • by Uberbah ( 647458 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @03:11PM (#58484830)

          John Rogers: There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

          If you're working on your own, you're responsible for yourself. That means building up a big enough nest egg to get you through recessions and tough times.

          You having enough money for a basic level of existence and save up for a nest egg means the vice president of your division will see smaller dividends, and might have to slum it in a Gulfstream III instead of having a Gulfstream IV. [cc.com] Your boss will lose her bonus for not keeping payroll costs down. So the "responsible" thing for a peon to do is eat Ramen for three meals a day for forty years, so you can buy a one-bedroom apartment you can retire to a couple years before you die.

          It's not about weeding out. It's about freedom for everyone to find what works best for themselves. A freedom that's lost when you mandate that everyone do things your way, because your experience is that that way worked best for you, therefore (leap of unsubstantiated logic) it must be best for everyone.

          Right, it's all about life choices! And why haven't you "chosen" to be a billionaire with your own yacht [justpo.st] and personal island in the Caribbean?

          The Libertarian philosophy is that robber barons should be freed from any limits on exploitation or greed, and not have to pay any taxes to support the society that makes their wealth possible.

          Fixed.

      • by Strider- ( 39683 )

        I've always come from the point of view that a decent social safety net gives me the freedom to take more risks, and better improve myself. If I'm in a job that sucks, I'm glad that leaving it won't put me at risk of losing my healthcare, and if I get laid off, I have some support to allow me to pause and potentially wait to find a better position if I'm not exactly thrilled with the first one that comes along.

    • And the way Anderson treated them... I'll bet $5 that the team(s) working on the Hertz website and app were working 50 or 60 hours a week

      I know several people who work for Accenture. You're right they do work 50-60 hour weeks. But they are $500 teams. These consultants get phenomenal amounts of money and the people I know (both got their jobs straight out of uni) are stupidly well paid which I can't even match with my oil industry income.

      Oh two of them just went on a sabbatical. Well not quite. They weren't paid while they took 6 months leave to go trek through Africa. But they were nice enough to get their long holidays paid out so they bas

    • Back in the mid-nineties, when they were still Anderson Consulting, I *was* one of them. All of the parent's post are pretty accurate. Some of my colleagues were working 90+ hours when deadlines were near.

      Unfortunately, the partners would take advantage of the green beans, who were bright about the work itself, but clueless about their own value and career development. Even with all that, it was a great learning experience, and I have lasting friendships with colleagues from that time.

      Would I hire them to w

    • I want half of that $5:

      • Early nineties,
      • when they were still Anderson Consulting,
      • I worked with them side-by-side on a giant SW infrastructure project at a major hw/sw computing player
      • Mostly right out of college.
      • Really bright people... with *NO* experience in the real world of programming.
      • And the way Anderson treated them... working 70-80 hours a week
      • and having to respond to calls and texts at all hours,
      • with only a little chance at getting comp time
      • with no chance of promotion since they weren't accountants in
    • I worked as a sub-contractor with Anderson Consulting in the 90's as well. The Joke with them was the saying "When you hire Anderson Consulting, they back the school bus up to your back door." They have been sued more times than I can count for botched IT implementations. Especially SAP ones! This one doesn't surprise me....

    • But we don't need unions (or holidays, or vacation time, or time when you're not working)....

      Really dude? REALLY? You see a problem with labor and the ONLY solution you can come up with involves things that have been tried already with results so disastrous that people were murdered, criminals became wealthy and powerful, and the landscape burnt to the ground... but, there were some good sides to it.

      Get the fuck outta here with that Union bullshit. Come up with a better solution or just shut up. We already know how the union thing goes and it is better to let everything burn to the ground "naturall

  • by Anonymous Coward

    When you hire Accenture (or any of the big 5) you get:
    1. Senior person with some experience
    5 Junior people with zero experience

    All of them at the same "blended" bill rate for your convenience.

    Anymore all these people are doing anyway is taking your requirements and translating them into Indian for off-shore development.

  • by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:26PM (#58483492)
    It was Accenture that screwed up Electronic Arts' first foray into online game delivery (this was pre-Origin as Origin was the successor to that failure) and costing them close to a billion. Unfortunately my google-fu isn't up to snuff as I can't seem to bring anything up.
    • There's a thing about consultants, you typically get back what you put in (that is in terms of effort, not dollars). Accenture is know for some major screw-ups, it's also known for a phenomenal amount of successes. It fundamentally puts them in the same league as most large consultants.

      Whenever I hear stories like this Hertz one, or the EA one I can't help but hope that the person on Hertz or EA's side who didn't know how to manage consultants, expectations, project requirements, etc got fired. Major projec

      • How? My bets are on some interface awfulness between Kronos and the company's other software systems, some weird under-the-table payment accounting dodge that showed up too obviously in Kronos' reports and couldn't be hidden, or corporate unwillingness to change anything in their practices to help integrate the system in question (the thinking being "We paid a lot for this software! Why should we be doing the changing?").

        • How?

          We are just *that* fucking good. My other recent favourite is we finally retired our custom made in house expense tracking solution and switched to Concur. Somehow we carried all the stupidity from our solution across including fields like "Receipt Yes / No" despite the fact that Concur internally manages which receipts are required or not, and doesn't even bother flagging an expense if this custom field disagrees with the requirement for an expense.

          But the best part is that we can now upload our receipts d

  • Finally! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Good god. Accenture has a TERRIBLE track record. They fucked up the London Stock Exchange a few years ago:
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1588339/london-stock-exchange-switches-linux

    I also happen to know they fucked up the University of Minnesota's accounting system in the early/mod 2000s. I saw the after-effects from a form GF who worked with the system, and heard about the serious, serious fuckups they created through a colleague that works at the UMN. Former GF described it as like working

  • a Flashing "Under Construction" GIF?

    You have to wonder who was writing the contracts, requirement docs, and tracking the work.

    It's really not rocket surgery...

  • $32,000,000 is a lot of money, but it's not really THAT much money. A firm can burn through that pretty quickly if you put dozens of people on a project (each with $100,000/year salaries). You need designers, brand experts, project managers, user experience experts, QA testers, web accessibility reviewers, etc. on top of the usual (and more expensive) developers and DBAs.

    Then you mix in the billable hours for meetings with the client before, during, and after the launch.

    Then you have bad PHB salespeople you

    • Saw two rather large projects go down the tubes, each after spending half a *billion* (USD)

      The first was supposed to simply replace an old system, mostly assembler, with something more modern (a mix of C and Oracle). Seven years later, with insane scope creep, the people running the project tried to roll out a limited deployment ... which was so bad that sales people actually quit in the 'test' locations, because they couldn't work. Microsoft Business Consultation was brought in, and, after a couple of mo

  • there is the backdoor way to get back at them just do an extreme ding and dent overview anytime some from Accenture rents a car. $500-$1000 a pop add's up.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @12:54PM (#58483732)
    Website had a large scratch on the driver's door and the gas tank wasn't full. 32Mil.
    • 32 Mil isn't some number pulled out of thin air, it's the amount of money Hertz has already paid to Accenture. Which sounds pretty reasonable, if you RTFA.
  • They too were totally overwhelmed and plagued by delays. The troubleshooting team that fixed Obamacare site was good.
  • by ripvlan ( 2609033 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @01:26PM (#58483996)

    For $32 million I'd do it, including starting a company to get'r done. Heck, I'd take $30 million.

    I can see how this happened (I used to work at GE). Hertz thought they could outsource the whole thing and didn't put anyone in charge of it. They probably didn't look for demos or do any acceptance testing as they went. No driving the consultants. If anyone was in charge I'll bet the B-team at Hertz so they willingly accepted delays. At GE I saw fairly large outsource projects managed by 1 or 2 people. 1 was a technical manager who had his normal day jobs to manage, and the 2nd person was a junior engineer who a) had a day job b) would raise interesting "that doesn't work" issues and nobody would listen. On smaller jobs 1 person would fill both roles. Why Hertz went $32mm before pulling the plug is fascinating, hopefully a few people at Hertz have been reassigned or "decided to pursue other opportunities."

    Gosh, If I divided that in half (16mm) and then divided that by $120,000 (a terrific salary) - I could hire 133 people (for a year). Of course not everyone makes $120k. A staff of 50 people over 2 or 3 years is easily supported by that money. $16mm for operating costs + $16mm for 50 people 3 years.

    $32mm and it wasn't done. omg

    • by kackle ( 910159 )

      For $32 million I'd do it, including starting a company to get'r done. Heck, I'd take $30 million.

      Hey Hertz, I'd gladly fail for a mere $1 million, in half the time!

    • $32mm and it wasn't done. omg

      I'm willing to bet you for $32mm it was already done twice, and the requirements have changed yet again. People like blaming consultants, but nearly always it's the project management on the client side that causes the problem.

    • Do you think Hertz would sign up with someone like you?

      You need top, well connected salsemen, and they are not cheap. You need lots of "corporate presence", also not cheap.

      The actual development is just an afterthought. Which might explain a few things...

    • Gosh, If I divided that in half (16mm) and then divided that by $120,000 (a terrific salary) - I could hire 133 people (for a year).

      This is how I know you are not a business owner. An employees total cost to the business is roughly twice as much as you are enumerating. If an employee is grossing $120k, that employee is actually costing the employer $240k (roughly).

      There are many "taxes" that you don't see and are (seemingly) completely unaware of.

      That being said, your numbers are still reasonable other than you get 25 people instead of 50. Still it could have and should have been quite profitably doable.

  • ... into next Wednesday. I'm grabbing some popcorn, this is going to be fun.
    Finally some big news on some end customer shafting some big ass consultancy over a major web project fuck up. This happens way to rarely IMHO. It would happen more often if I were on the customer end of things. Usually I only get to watch criminally clueless agency PMs churn out disasters like this and then blame it on the devs.

    *Sits back*

  • Praise Avis (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Wednesday April 24, 2019 @01:50PM (#58484186)

    This is why the Krill worship Avis.

  • This is what you get when you work with a company that's offshored all its engineering talent. See also: IBM
  • This kind of thing happens all the time in a bunch of industries. One company low-bids, overpromises, and can't deliver. The company that hired them goes after them. Most of the time, it doesn't make the radar of anyone outside the respective companies. The only way I can figure this being news-worthy is that it's two recognizable company names, and the $32 million amount makes for a nice headline. Other than that, yawn.
    • by Strider- ( 39683 )

      In my experience, the big issue ist hat people pick the lowest bidder. My rule of thumb is that if you have three bids, the lowest one is probably lying through their teeth, the middle one is probably reasonable but might be fibbing, and the high one is probably too expensive. As such, always go with the middle one.

  • (this [wordpress.com]) × (large company) = $32M worth of failure.

  • We are involved in a lawsuit with a consulting company in our small business, too. Promised something would be implemented by date x and cost x. After they were triple over time and five times over budget, we pulled the plug, and are suing them. It really sucks.
    • Downside of a small one is they are no doubt incorporated and have 'empty pockets'.

      Now you get to pay lawyers five times budget.

  • The needful was not done.

  • Accenture is ultimately at fault here by definition.

    Any company that proposes a solution, least of all one as large as them, has facilities to deal with project creep, understands legacy technology, etc., and has provisions in their contract to deal with this. Obviously we don't know all the details, and I have no doubt that the client may have had a nightmare system and potentially unrealistic requirements, BUT if you're a contractor, it's your job to anticipate this mess and allocate appropriate time and

  • Accenture is a strange choice to implement a web site. I really trust them to write stuff that makes management feel secure. I bet they would be good at writing the web site specifications, for instance,

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