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Privacy Security Software Hardware

Should Vendors Start Adding Physical On/Off Switches To Devices That Can Spy On Us? (larrysanger.org) 231

Larry Sanger, American internet project developer and co-founder of Wikipedia, argues in a blog post that vendors must start adding physical on/off switches to webcams, smartphone cameras/mics, and other devices that spy on us. He writes: Have you ever noticed that your webcam doesn't have an "off" switch? I looked on Amazon, and I couldn't find any webcams for sale that had a simple on/off switch. When I thought I found one, but it turned out just to have a light that turns on when the camera is in use, and off when not -- not a physical switch you can press or slide. The "clever" solution is supposed to be webcam covers (something Mark Zuckerberg had a hand in popularizing); you can even get a webcam (or a laptop) with such a cover built in. How convenient! I've used tape, which works fine. But a cover doesn't cover up the microphone, which could be turned on without your knowledge.
[...]
It's almost as if the vendors of common, must-have devices want to make it possible to spy on us. An enterprising journalist should ask why they don't make such switches. They certainly have deliberately made it hard for us to stop being spied upon -- even though we're their customers. Think about that. We're their bread and butter, and we're increasingly and rightly concerned about our security. Yet they keep selling us these insecure devices. That's just weird, isn't it? What the hell is going on? [...] If your webcam, or your phone, or any other device with an Internet-connected camera or microphone (think about how many you own) has ever been hacked, these [hardware vendors like Logitech and Apple and large software vendors like Skype and Snapchat] are partly to blame if it was always-on by design. They have a duty to worry about how their products make their users less secure. They haven't been doing this duty.
Sanger goes on to urge consumers to care more about our privacy and security, and demand that vendors give us an off switch. "I think we consumers should demand that webcams, smart phones, smart speakers, and laptop cameras and microphones -- and any other devices with cameras and microphones that are connected to the Internet -- be built with hardware 'off' switches that make it impossible for the camera and microphone to be operated," writes Sanger.

Do you agree?
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Should Vendors Start Adding Physical On/Off Switches To Devices That Can Spy On Us?

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  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:23PM (#58462416) Journal
    There is no need to buy things that can spy on us.

    There is no need to plug them and give them power to operate

    There is no need to provide internet access to them to phone home

    There is no need to trust the manufacturers to respect the on/off switch.

    Just throw the damned things away.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      There is no need to buy things that can spy on us.

      There is no need to plug them and give them power to operate

      There is no need to provide internet access to them to phone home

      There is no need to trust the manufacturers to respect the on/off switch.

      Just throw the damned things away.

      In other words, think before buying anything.

      If you want to waste your hard earned money to invite someone else could spy on you, fine with me.

      Its your money, after all.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      That is not a realistic option. You are never going to get more than 0.1% of people to do it.

      Come back when you have an answer that can work in the real world.

      • It is not a realistic option because everything you buy that is higher tech than a bootlace has spying built into it.

    • by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @10:32PM (#58462642) Homepage

      We already have such a device. It's called a power strip with a off switch. Why my computer and tv are on such devices. I push this switch, that is currently glowing red, and everything plugged into it goes off. Just like this. afd s 254f NOCARRER@%$@#$^$32..jkkl;$%#$%#$%#$%#

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        According to Slashdot conspiracy theorists such devices will soon have 5G modems (so they don't need your wifi) and battery backup so they can download ads and spy on you even when unplugged.

        Luckily I placed a layer of tinfoil under my wallpaper years ago. People sometimes ask why my walls are crunchy and their phone has no signal.

      • Someone should invent internal batteries.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      There is a need if you want, say, a job. It would be practically impossible for me to be employed without owning a phone, for example. Skype is widely used in business too.

    • by jonwil ( 467024 )

      Its getting harder and harder to find devices that don't contain the ability to spy on you.
      Its nearly impossible to find a TV with a good quality display panel in a decent size that isn't a "smart" TV with all the spy things that entails.

      Decent laptops that don't have webcams are getting harder to find as well (tape or covers can stop the camera but that wont block the microphone).

      Windows is loaded with spying and telemetry stuff. And even if you go for an OS without spyware you will run into things like In

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        What is wrong with buying a smart TV and simply not connecting it to the internet? Conspiracy theories about hidden 5G modems aside, there will be no way for it to spy on you then.

        As for laptops, get a Lenovo and simply unplug the webcam and microphone. They have handy service manuals on their web site that explain how to do it, usually it's only a case of removing half a dozen screws. They don't have illegal "warranty void" stickers either.

      • Putting Linux on the laptop and blacklisting the microphone driver will, however, stop the problem in its tracks.
    • Thanks Mr. Stallman, but how does that help you when you need a product of a given type and literally cannot buy such a device that doesn't include the unwanted feature?

      You have to seriously go out of your way to find a laptop that doesn't have a microphone and/or camera. Almost all TVs are 'smart' TVs now. Proper 2FA systems require an app on your phone because SMS is hopelessly untrustworthy, so if you need to do anything of import you can't get a feature phone and you have to hope that the system suppo

    • There is no need for anything but food and shelter, but the reality is that in order to function as a member of modern society you need to use a variety of smart devices. Its possible to live without ever using a cell phone, computer, automobile, television, etc - but holding down a good job, and engaging socially with other people would be very difficult.

      You couln't for example post your thoughts to slashdot.

      An expert might be able to distinguish which of these devices do and don't spy on them, but the gre

  • Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by YukariHirai ( 2674609 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:23PM (#58462418)
    Fuck yes. Absolutely.
    • Re:Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:31PM (#58462436) Homepage

      Not to forget the LED that illuminates when on and also flickers or changes colour when recording. Do you know they originally came out with these and the switches were removed because of course they wanted that control. It should be mandated by law.

      • In antediluvian times, I remember some computer models with built in internal modems having this exact switch. Press it, the modem is disabled completely (as in the circuit is powered through that switch.) It would take physical hardware rewiring to get around this.

        Another product was called the NetSheriff. This was a simple, spring loaded mechanical timer that you used. Set it for "x" amount of hours, it maintained an electrical connection between two Ethernet cables. After that, it broke the connecti

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Lenovo still includes a physical slider that covers the webcam. No indication for the microphone though.

    • Also to other devices too. Instead of having standby power of 1W or whatever, it will have standby power of 0W and I would not have to unplug it.

    • No thanks. I don't need another switch or button that will remain unused for 99.9% of the population only to pander common goods to the privacy conscious.

      The reality is, outside of Slashdot few people give a damn. "Hey Alexa, who thinks you're a privacy risk?" "No one gives a damn!"

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:26PM (#58462424) Journal
    I mean we have tons of devices that we think are not spying on us. But are we sure?

    Wasn't there a smart tv that had a viewer facing camera and a microphone that was not disclosed?

    • You can't be sure. If it has microphone(s) or camera(s) and it's on all the time and connected to the Internet in some way or other then it could potentially be being used as a surveillance device, or possibly capable of being leveraged into being a surveillance device by 3rd parties (criminal, law enforcement, or government). Your smartphone is a prime example of this, and it's documented as not only being possible, but having been used that way by intelligence services.
    • Wasn't there a smart tv that had a viewer facing camera and a microphone that was not disclosed?

      If there were it doesn't mean anything. Reusing the same hardware for multiple models with software used to enable or disable features is par for the course in the consumer electronics industry.
      Sure you can't be certain you're not being spied on, but Occams Razor suggests that the only reason that camera is there is economics and if you'd spent $100 more on the TV you'd be using it to Skype your mother or doing a little dance in front of it for gesture control.

      The only thing I remember that had an undisclos

    • Yep. I'm absolutely sure that my toaster is not spying on me. It's unplugged.
  • Surprised it's not a requirement in certain countries.

    • Integrated and / or soldered to the board batteries make " unplugging it " rather difficult.

      • that's why I generally remove pci-e cards for wifi in laptops and desktops. their antennas usually suck and some laptops have bios blocks that won't let you boot if you don't have THEIR pc-card in there.

        so fuck that; use usb wifi and when I remove it from usb ports, that's a NO they can't mess with.

        anything else is not really a NO. onboard wifi is a curse (BT and other wireless, as well).

        as for mics, insert an empty plug (just the plug part) into the TRS 1/8" audio jack and that will disable onboard mic,

    • Just unplug it

      Your plugs must be handy to reach. To unplug any of mine I would need to crawl under a long desk through an area blocked by various storage boxes, and then identify the plug I wanted from among a row of about eight others, where it is too dark to see anyway.

  • Even if the manufacturer does make such on/off switch, can you still trust that switch to do what it suppose to do and protect your privacy. Seriously, I trust a black tape that mask over webcam better than a switch implemented by the laptop manufacturer. And why is it that just about all the laptop from the most cheapest to most expensive have web cam built in, when 90% of laptop users dont use the webcam? So the buyer can spend more money on equpment we dont need and yet pay extra for a switch to turn

    • Even if the manufacturer does make such on/off switch, can you still trust that switch to do what it suppose to do and protect your privacy.

      An on/off switch cutting the lines to the camera/microphone are trivial to verify in a teardown, and most machines get a teardown nowadays. I mean, we're talking about a physical switch that disrupts the flow of information/electricity, not a firmware setting.

      A software switch, I agree, isn't worth the paper it's not printed on. (or is worth it... whichever means its

  • Of course everything should have an "Off" switch -- why is this even a question. While we're at it, we should bring back DIP switches (or other physical interlocks) for modifications of critical components or gross (circuit-level) disconnects.

    Whatever efficiency people need for physically-remote firmware updates is absolutely not worth the security risk of remote firmware-write access. If you have a problem that difficult, just start paying datacenter ops folks again.

    • Then you should trade in your Ethernet adapter for ARCNET. The network address was set via DIPSWITCH.
  • by TheCowSaysMoo ( 4915561 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:47PM (#58462484)

    If I don't trust a company to respect my privacy and think they're using their software to spy on my via hardware, why would I EVER trust them to respect my use of an on/off switch? That's like saying I don't trust someone convicted of identity theft with my online bank account, but hey, here's a couple of checkbooks full of signed checks to keep safe for me!

    It would be like [insert major online corporation] offering a button you could click to opt out of them selling your data... and then believing they wouldn't do it anyhow.

    As the saying goes, if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    • why would I EVER trust them to respect my use of an on/off switch?

      Because teardown videos exist. If a manufacturer made this bold move, you KNOW every nerd with a screwdriver within arms reach is going to be pulling shit apart to check.

      • But it took a long time to discover that many "solar powered" calculators had fake solar cells, or real ones that had been factory rejects, presumably bought cheap, and not even connected inside the calculator.

      • Teardown videos do nothing. These days the vast majority of consumer devices have little squiggly lines going in and out of some chip with a datasheet that is locked behind an NDA, or worse has the company's own name stamped on it. Sure you could cut the power trace with a switch but that poses a whole manner of technical problems that need to be overcome with a device that suddenly appears to have failed.

    • I trust my hardware vendor, but not necessarily all of my software vendors.

      In addition, software has security holes, so there may be programs running that I am not aware of.

      That is why physical switches would be a good thing.

  • by choprboy ( 155926 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:47PM (#58462486) Homepage

    Larry Sanger writes: I think we consumers should demand that webcams, smart phones, smart speakers, and laptop cameras and microphones... be built with hardware 'off' switches that make it impossible for the camera and microphone to be operated.

    And what make you think the vendor added physical switch would do anything other than disable the camera LED and signal to the USB driver that the camera should be shown as "off"?

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Because iFixIt and hobbyists will immediately take it apart and check what the switch it connected to, revealing their lies. That might happen the first few times but sooner or later they will learn they can't get away with it.

      • Because iFixIt and hobbyists will immediately take it apart and check what the switch it connected to, revealing their lies.

        They don't have the capability to do that. There's good technical reasons why you don't just shut off the power to something with a switch, so the vast majority of vendors will do something "intelligent" with them. iFixIt doesn't break down firmware. iFixIt doesn't do anything when presented with a chip that isn't an off the shelf part with a datasheet.

        Just because you can look inside something doesn't mean you know what the hell it does.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Cameras are often USB, you can just cut power.

          In any case it's not hard to make the firmware handle a physical switch. I know, I've done it, e.g. fire safety gear where stuff is destroyed at random.

          • Cameras are often USB, you can just cut power.

            For a USB gadget I agree. For integrated electronics it becomes a very different story.

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              I mean the internal ones are usually just USB as well. Especially on laptops or anything using an ARM SoC.

  • As long as we are dreaming, let's dream big. Have a shutter over the webcam and have no built-in microphones at all, but include a little desktop microphone with the laptop. An opaque shutter over a webcam is enough to be sure it's not seeing me, but it's harder to be really sure about microphones.

    I'm paranoid, but not paranoid enough... I still have a phone that could be listening to me. But at least maybe I could reduce the number of devices I own that might spy on me.

    P.S. I'm pretty sure there is a sm

  • by Etcetera ( 14711 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:51PM (#58462502) Homepage

    Max Headroom was waaaaaaaaay ahead of its time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9AZZVnNw60 [youtube.com]


    While investigating a missing person's apartment, a reporter presses a button in a chair armrest and the TV turns off:
    Janie Crane: "An off switch?"
    Metrocop: "She'll get years for that. Off switches are illegal!"

  • It's an optional upgrade [amazon.com].

  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @09:55PM (#58462536)

    I would love a physical on / off switch for the following:

    SmartPhone Microphone
    SmartPhone Cameras
    SmartPhone GPS

    The rest of it is easy, I either don't buy it or I bury it off in a Vlan and tell the router not to let it out.
    I will never have a network connected " Smart Home Assistant " ( Eg: Alexa, Echo, Nest and anything " Cloud " connected )

  • Hell yes (Score:4, Informative)

    by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @10:01PM (#58462566)
    Failure to include a physical toggle is what makes crap like this possible [arstechnica.com]
  • If you must insist on having these devices in your home: unplug them when you're not actively using them! This isn't even tinfoil-hat paranoia, it's just common sense. It's been well documented from credible sources that these devices are listening 100% of the time they're powered on (they can't function otherwise) and that recordings are made, for 'quality control/quality improvement' purposes; the problem is, however, who else could gain access to the device, it's recordings, or perhaps even 'repurpose' it for actual surveillance purposes (assuming that Google and Amazon aren't already doing that on the sly; you decide for yourself how credible a threat that is).

    Then there's the well-documented evidence that so-called 'smart TVs' are also watching and listening to what you do and say in your home -- and that the manufacturer(s) are using that for 'marketing purposes' (which could mean almost anything, vis-a-vis Facebook). I mention 'smart TVs' because it's more precedent of this sort of behavior by manufacturers being rampant.

    So, again: unplug your 'voice assistant' when you are not actively using it! Don't bother waiting to see if Google or Amazon (or whoever) decides to incorporate one into the design. If it's too inconvenient to physically unplug it from the wall jack then get one of these [stetzerizer-us.com] (or similar) to put between it's power cord/wall adapter and the wall socket.
    • If it's too inconvenient to physically unplug it from the wall jack then get one of these [stetzerizer-us.com] (or similar) to put between it's power cord/wall adapter and the wall socket.

      How does that device help? If the wall socket is hard to reach, so will be that device because it plugs into that same wall socket. By the look of its primitive socket that looks a USA-oriented device; in the UK system most wall sockets have switches anyway. That still does not solve the problem of the wall socket being behind a desk and a load of storage boxes, and in a dark area, and in a row of half-a-dozen identical looking (if I could even see them) plugs in sockets.

      • Oh, geez, figure it out, okay? Seriously, friend, how difficult an issue is this? Sheesh. Get a small outlet strip that has a switch, then, or similar.
    • If you must insist on having these devices in your home: unplug them when you're not actively using them!

      *in the middle of cooking*: "Hey Google!"
      "Fuck"
      *washes hands*
      *walks over to Google Home*
      *plugs it in*
      *waits ... waits ... waits ... good to go*
      "Hey Google, add tomatoes to my shopping list."
      *unplugs device*.

      Sorry your idea is stupid. Not impractical, just stupid. If unplugging were an option then people wouldn't buy it in the first place. You do have tin-foil hat paranoia you see because the "common sense" indicates that the "common person" has one of these devices at home and plugged in.

      Devices are listeni

      • Screw you. Just because you don't give a shit about your own privacy, or choose to ignore the threat (because of MUH CONVENIENCE), or are entirely ignorant of the threat to your privacy (as either a matter-of-course or wilfully) is appropos of nothing.
        • Screw you. Just because you don't give a shit about your own privacy

          Actually no, Don't like it, don't buy one. Your opinions and tinfoil hattery is all good and fine until you advocate affecting the free will of others.

          Screw me for having a different opinion than you? Well outright fuck you for trying to force yours on other's.

          • No, 'screw you' for insulting me because you don't like *my* opinion, and go to such great lengths to do so; triggered much? Bugger off.
      • by Blue23 ( 197186 )

        "Hey Google!"

        Respectfully, if you have a home assistant, you really aren't the target audience for a discussion about microphone privacy. If you can believe that some others do care about this (and the other posts on this thread should convince you that's the case), then your remarks are both pointless and inflammatory.

        "Hey Alexa, what's the best model of tinfoil hat? Asking for a friend?"

        If on the other hand you believe there is no possibility of bad actors among all the hardware/software/firmware makers (plus anyone who can hack these devices) you are misinformed. It seems that you wer

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by dfenstrate ( 202098 ) <dfenstrate&gmail,com> on Friday April 19, 2019 @10:53PM (#58462686)

    Cutting microphone access to Facebook Messenger essentially eliminates ads based on my conversations.
    I had to turn microphone access on to call a friend; now it's off again.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Why is that illegal in your country? Covertly listening to conversations is against the law in many places.

      • Why is that illegal in your country? Covertly listening to conversations is against the law in many places.

        It's not covert when:
        a) You expressly gave permission after reading the terms of service for the 3rd party to listen.
        b) As yet it has never been proven that any specific app is actually listening. Just the odd anecdote here or there. You'd think with all the focus on Facebook in the past 2 years if were actually real there'd be something more substantial out there than pseudo-anonymous forum posts.

  • by darkitecture ( 627408 ) on Friday April 19, 2019 @11:05PM (#58462718)

    Okay, I'll bite.

    If you can't already trust your current product/manufacturer to not spy on you, what on earth makes you think you could trust that they're telling the truth when you've turned some switch "off" that it really is actually off?

    We've had countless companies lie about shit before and they've gotten away with an "oops" before - no apology, no repercussions. There's absolutely nothing preventing companies not giving a single fuck about this.
    • You are about the twentieth person who has asked that question and it has been answered already.

      • You are about the twentieth person who has asked that question and it has been answered already.

        And in every case the answer as been ignorant and incorrect. The correct answer is: You can't, and having iFixIt disassemble it for you won't help you prove anything.

        • You are about the twentieth person who has asked that question and it has been answered already.

          And in every case the answer as been ignorant and incorrect. The correct answer is: You can't, and having iFixit disassemble it for you won't help you prove anything.

          If this is your take, you were obligated to say so in your first post, instead of wasting our time. I can immediately diagnose how you've trained yourself to do the opposite of the right thing: overuse of the word "anything", an open invitation for b

          • If this is your take, you were obligated to say so in your first post, instead of wasting our time.

            I'm not the OP. Try and follow a conversation on an open forum by seeing who's speaking.

            I can immediately diagnose how you've trained yourself to do the opposite of the right thing: overuse of the word "anything"

            The use of the word "anything" is a literary construct in this case expressly limited to the what the GP was trying to prove int he first place.

            what iFixit can determine depends entirely on how the product is engineered.

            Sigh, we're talking about an untrustworthy party hiding something. I see you struggle with the concept of a conversation. I assume the rest of your TL;DR post is equally as irrelevant to what we're talking about here. Shame, it looks like you probably spent some time typing it.

  • If you distrust manufacturers to the point that you want them to put in On/off switches, how can you trust them to put in on/off switches that actually work?
  • ... How do we know it is really off? OK, cam(era)s with physical covers but mic(rophone)s and cameras without their physical covers?

  • Great idea. But spying on us is the whole purpose of most of these devices. Monetizing our behavioral data is the whole business model. Without the surveillance, the device would not serve any purpose for the manufacturer. Half the time they are selling the hardware at a loss anyway.

    • Without the surveillance, the device would not serve any purpose for the manufacturer. Half the time they are selling the hardware at a loss anyway.

      Good

  • And the switch should be in a transparent enclosure so that we causally _see_ the electrical contact being broken

  • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
    Yes they should.
    Anything with wifi.
    A web cam/microphone.
    Give users back control from ad brands.
    A physical on/off button. With a direct wired light that shows the product is in use.
    Not a software power off, OS software controlled light. When the webcam/mic is in use, the light is "on"
  • Why? Because spying/collecting data is the primary raison-d'etre for many of these devices. The companies aren't charity, running of those services that power e.g. the smart speakers, smart tvs or webcams or what not costs something. And that isn't covered by the one-off purchase cost of the hardware (where the margins are pretty slim anyway) but by selling your data.

    If you don't want to be spied on, then don't buy these products. It is that simple. Unless forced by law these companies aren't going to volun

  • by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @07:59AM (#58463396)

    Computers already come with various slides and buttons, they definitely don't need more.

    Some computers have a braindead WiFi switch (which is only a software switch) and people slide it off then call tech support unaware that it is the stupid switch.

    Any switch will be implemented in software, because that's cheaper and simpler and more flexible. People won't like switches because it makes stuff more complicated for no reason.

    If you're that worried about your privacy run Linux and mod a hardware switch into the computer yourself or simply disconnect it from the motherboard and use external devices when you need them. You're probably doing a lot of other things that compromise your privacy than a microphone or webcam switch that would only be a valid use if your computer is already compromised which means it's already too late.

  • End user support. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Znarl ( 23283 ) on Saturday April 20, 2019 @08:00AM (#58463404) Homepage Journal

    I can imagine the reason for originally not wanting an off switch for cameras or microphones is because it avoids end users thinking their device is broken when it's accidentally switched off. I've had to "fix" laptops in the past with wifi adapters with physical buttons because end users in the past would mistakenly turn it off and not think to turn it on again when they need wifi.

    Why deal with the problem of users mistakenly turning off their camera with a physical switch and instead have a soft switch? Not a good reason to continue not having a switch but maybe an explanation of why no button seemed like a good idea.

    • Because there's no way to make a hard switch that software can't detect?

      End user support is always an implementation issue, not an idea issue.

  • Not likely to happen due to tech support question number one: "Is it turned on?" If you can't turn it off, then when it doesn't work, tech support can eliminate 45 percent of the root causes. This lets tech support eliminate the other 45 percent of root causes by asking the second tech support question: "Is it plugged in?" By not having an off switch companies can reduce tech support costs by almost half.
  • If one is predisposed to using the term "spy" to refer to what these devices do, then one is also presuming a particular agenda in the first place. If this presumption were correct, then I do not think it is particularly less plausible that any physical switch on their device they were legally required to have would be little more than a placebo.... and while ordinary attempts to use the device with the switch in the "off" position would appear to fail as expected, the device may still be covertly collect
  • All my devices have this over the lens of its camera

    https://www.spy-fy.com/

    I have yet to find a good solution for the microphone though.

  • If you can't cut power from the device that can spy, it should be illegal to sell, except in limited circumstances. This would go for mobile phones, as an example, where you should be able to disable the GPS, Camera's, Microphone, Mobile Network, Wifi, Bluetooth, NFC and any of the modules in the phone which could track you in any possible way.

    Extending this concept, it should also be mandatory to use Encrypted Email via PGP or another scheme.

    it should be required that all devices which store and con
  • A physical switch that just goes to an input on the device controller is no more useful than a software control - the manufacturer can choose which functions it decides to leave active. Many PCs leave IPMI active even when they are "powered off". (not saying that is evil, but it means that "powered off" doesn't really mean the device is completely disabled).

    For this to be useful it needs to disable ALL power to ALL components in a direct, physical non-hackable fashion.

    Its quite possible that a software t

  • Should we trust the switch to even work if the vendor is sly enough to make a device that spies on us in the first place?

    Pardon me, but I'd rather just pull the damn plug on the sucker if I was paranoid.

  • Yes. But a piece of tape works wonders

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