San Jose May Start Cracking Down On Rampant Use of Scooters (mercurynews.com) 102
If you've ever visited San Jose, you may have noticed something rather unusual: there are electric scooters littering the streets. The scooters are placed randomly throughout the city and can be rented by users via an app. They're reportedly bothering pedestrians enough for the city to take notice and consider a number of possible restrictions, "including issuing revocable permits to a limited number of scooter companies such as Lime and Bird, requiring the companies to pay a deposit to cover potential scooter-involved damage to city property, and charging annual fees to operate in the city," reports The Mercury News. From the report: In recent weeks, the city has fielded complaints about people zooming down crowded sidewalks instead of riding in the street and parking scooters in front of driveways or leaving them tipped over outside stores. But the city currently doesn't have any rules governing the relatively new scooter-sharing industry, enabling both the companies and users to operate freely. In addition to paying operating fees, [...] the city wants the companies to provide multilingual customer service at all times, and to commit to addressing problems quickly. And like Ford GoBike -- which currently has an exclusive contract with San Jose to operate a docked bike sharing program in the city -- the city says scooter companies should be required to offer discounts to low-income residents and operate in what it calls "communities of concern."
To understand how and where people are riding scooters, the city says it also wants the companies to share their data, something they so far have been reluctant to part with, at least publicly. Most residents at the meeting seemed supportive of having scooters in San Jose, calling them an easy and environmentally friendly way to commute or run errands quickly.
To understand how and where people are riding scooters, the city says it also wants the companies to share their data, something they so far have been reluctant to part with, at least publicly. Most residents at the meeting seemed supportive of having scooters in San Jose, calling them an easy and environmentally friendly way to commute or run errands quickly.
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Crack down on rampant use of cars? (Score:1)
Perhaps, instead?
And let the scooters use the roads.
Re:"Communities of Concern?" (Score:5, Funny)
Try to show some empathy. There are some impoverished areas in east SJ with median housing prices barely reaching $1M. From 237 to Alum Rock, there is not a single Tesla Supercharging Station east of 680. People should not have to live like that. We should all be concerned.
Our government may not care about hunger, housing, or healthcare, but at least they can make sure we all have equal access to rent-a-scooters.
Let the private sector handle it (Score:5, Insightful)
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Are these scooters allowed to use a parking space? If not, it sounds like a problem that the city should address either legally or by cooperating with the companies to make custom parking spaces available, just like for bikes. ... the city does have parking spaces reserved for bikes, right?
Re:Let the private sector handle it (Score:4, Informative)
After searching, I see that what you guys call "scooter" is in fact motorized skateboards. Around here, "scooter" means "moped".
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Probably because where you live, there are a lot of morons.
Scooters like you're thinking of are motorcycles. They do not have pedals.
Mopeds are not motorcycles. They do not have pedals.
FWIW, Scooters range in size, all the way up to the Aprilia SRV 850, which has an 850cc engine.
http://www.aprilia.com/en_EN/m... [aprilia.com]
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Typo on my part...I meant to say they DO have pedals...that was my point. Sorry about that.
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Why not simply allow people to haul away abandoned and/or illegally parked scooters and sell them for scrap? Of course the scooter companies should be allowed to come by and pick up their property- as long as they pay the same reasonable towing and storage fees that tow companies charge for cars.
Mod the parent up! This is exactly what should happen!
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I wonder if the net scrap value is a positive number. Once you've disassembled all the security screws to pull the batteries and electronics out. Then try to get the plastic off the metal, and the copper wire off the motor, are you really going to be ahead?
I'm a bit worried that these rideshare scooters are going to be stacked up in the dump once these startups go under. And that is more likely to occur than you think, because someone like Uber might buy them up only to shut them down. There is almost no en
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None of this is going to stop people from leaving those scooters anywhere they wish.
People are lazy.
Sure it can. Confiscate and/or ticket the scooter. You don't see people illegally parking their cars anywhere they wish because people know they will be fined and/or towed if they do. And even if it's a ride share, the ride share companies would quickly start passing that fine back to the user if they had to start paying it.
Re:Let the private sector handle it (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't see people illegally parking their cars anywhere they wish
Cars? No. Bicycles? Yes.
I live in San JoseI , and I see scooters as mostly a non-problem. I have never seen one on a crowded sidewalk. In fact, I have never even seen a crowded sidewalk. The car to pedestrian ratio is at least 100:1.
If more people use them to get around without driving a car, then they are a good thing. We don't need more nanny-state government.
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So you live in San Jose this week. It seems you have lived all over the state. Perhaps you should go downtown SJ, lots of people walk on the sidewalk. Lots of people walking on North First Street with light rail. Of course, you would know this if you actually lived in San Jose.
Re:Let the private sector handle it (Score:4, Informative)
Why not simply allow people to haul away abandoned and/or illegally parked scooters and sell them for scrap? Of course the scooter companies should be allowed to come by and pick up their property- as long as they pay the same reasonable towing and storage fees that tow companies charge for cars.
This isn't something new. The quantity and technology might be but scooters and bikes have been around for years. When I was in college almost 20 years ago, there were plenty of scooters and bikes all over campus and the campus police regularly confiscated and/or ticketed bikes for being illegally chained to lampposts, trees, etc... Bicycles and scooters had to be parked at the official bikeracks that were in front of each building. I would be surprised if San Jose didn't already have laws on the books saying that bikes must be parked properly. They just need to start enforcing those laws.
Useless (Score:1)
Primary link is to a website that only has an auto-playing video.
Can reporters in the USA still write?
Re:Useless (Score:4, Insightful)
Their target audience can't read.
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Primary link is to a website that only has an auto-playing video.
Can reporters in the USA still write?
Primary link is to a website that only has an auto-playing video.
Can reporters in the USA still write?
No. They were too busy with their social justice classwork to study English and writing skills. Is writing even an elective in journalism schools these days? Even big money national "news" websites routinely misspell words in articles, use the wrong words - often homophones - or even omit words in a sentence, mangling the meaning. Sometimes, it looks like a middle school book report. I read an article today on one of those national "news" sites where the first paragraph referenced a "she" with nothing
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Eh? The primary link is to the San Jose Mercury News, which has a well-written (if somewhat short) article on the subject. It's one of secondary links within the TFA itself - to KPIX 5 - that has the video. Unsurprisingly, a TV news station will have a video.
half of slashdot disqualified from Bird (Score:2)
The scooters have a user agreement that set the weight limit to 200 lbs [www.bird.co]
"1.10 Weight and Cargo Limits. You must not exceed the maximum weight limit for the Vehicle (200 pounds)."
When you share it.... (Score:2, Insightful)
When you share it, you should, but most won't, take care of it.
It is inevitable that once the element of ownership is taken out of the equation, that people become careless.
Irresponcible to the point of creating a hazzard for the general populace. A mess to clean up.
This applies to so many things on so many levels.
It is absurd that many people forget about this or would simply like to believe otherwise.
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Thank You! (Score:2, Interesting)
The city finally took some action and have been cracking down on the companies operating these skooters.
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Thanks for bringing this up. This has been a rampant problem in San Francisco. Clumps of skooters were blocking sidewalks, disabled ramps, etc.
The city finally took some action and have been cracking down on the companies operating these skooters.
Why would they let it become a problem? Why are they not treated like any other thing that is illegally parked? If I park my car and block a sidewalk, the city will call a tow truck and I might even have criminal charges. When I was in college 20 years ago, the campus police would cut the locks off of and impound illegally parked bikes. Not only did you have to buy a new lock, I believe you had to pay a fine to get your bike back.
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It makes me wonder who's benefiting from this outrage campaign that smells strongly of astroturf.
There are no astroturfers on /. - no sir, no whatsoever!
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City bus network? Taxis? Uber? General Motors? [wikipedia.org]
NIMBY (Score:2)
Authoritarian city bureaucrats, NIMBY landowners, and joyless ne'er-do-wells sure do hate clean, quiet, efficient shared transportation options.
Wow... (Score:1)
First world problems are cute :)
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...because no problems should be addressed in the first world unless they involve clean drinking water and warlords disrupting food shipments?
That attitude is cute.
Re: Wow... (Score:1)
Of course we have cute problems that why we are first world. Now go back to your shithole and try to live beyond 40yrs old..... I have to try figure out my optimal air conditioning temperature..... fuck when I up the temp my head feels too warm but if I lower it my legs feel cold... dammit! If I cover my legs with the blanket, the leg feels too warm so i have to stick out one leg, but then the left leg feels cold and the right leg feels warm.... then I have to alternate my legs in the blanket.... which is t
Why not clamp down on the rampent use of cars? (Score:1)
Just Wait (Score:5, Insightful)
After the inevitable scooter share startup bankruptcies, the problem will essentially solve itself. The scooters will then be auctioned off in bankruptcy to satisfy creditors.
See also: the mountains of abandoned sharing bicycles in China [theatlantic.com].
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I'm a big scooter fan, they make it possible for me to take BART instead of driving by providing a quick way to do the last mile.
But indeed I agree -- if the companies can't figure out how to work through the issues and go bankrupt, so be it. Society advances by different people trying lots of different ideas, many of which end up in the dustbin of history.
The knee-jerk-get-off-my-lawn attitude though, that I don't get.
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That's because it's not a "knee-jerk-get-off-my-lawn attitude", it's a "these a-holes are exploiting a resource they don't pay for and creating an eyesore attitude". It's not that they are on your lawn, it's that they are taking a dump on your lawn and you have to clean it up. It's not just San Jose either, it's happening in my city too. Scooters are discarded literally anywhere like a kid dropping his bicycle the moment it suits him.
A transportation revolution is likely to happen in some form, but it's
Speed and range? (Score:1)
What is the speed and range of these scooters?
Anyone hacking them yet?
Welcome to the Era of no personal responsibility (Score:3)
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I think you've hit on the problem, but missed that the current status leaves governments unable to take action. The governments can (currently) legally target the users, since the laws were written with individual owners of individual bikes or scooters. The governments cannot target the companies, or even require that the companies provide data about their customers or pass through fines through to the customers without changes to the laws.
Hence why you're going to continue seeing stories like this as gover
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That requires a policy or legislative change. In most jurisdictions they have internal rules that require them to go through public input and review processes to ensure they aren't singling people or companies out.
Can they do it? Yes. But it will take some time. Hence why you're hearing about it as they start the processes.
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Yes, because there's existing laws that cover that scenario. Those laws specifically cover "motor vehicles" and probably even make different scenarios for different types of rental vehicles (commercial trucks vs cars, fleets vs. rentals, in-state vs. out-of-state, etc.).
Bikes and scooters are new transportation vehicle types not covered under existing laws. Hence why towns are having to work through the process of dealing with them.
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I think you've hit on the problem, but missed that the current status leaves governments unable to take action. The governments can (currently) legally target the users, since the laws were written with individual owners of individual bikes or scooters. The governments cannot target the companies, or even require that the companies provide data about their customers or pass through fines through to the customers without changes to the laws.
Except for moving violations, (when tickets are directly issued to the driver), the government should just target the registered owner of the vehicle. If I rent a car from Hertz and park it illegally, the ticket is issued to Hertz. Hertz then goes after me for the money - as they make clear they will in the rental agreement. This model is already in place and would work fine for rented scooters and bicycles. It is up to the scooter company to keep track of their property and deal with citations.
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See my other comments in this thread. The Hertz scenario is covered by existing laws and regulations. Scooters are not.
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scooter companies should be required to offer discounts to low-income residents and operate in what it calls "communities of concern."
Personal responsibility? Can't crack down on the drugged-out hobos. Never mind that they can claim poverty when it comes time to pay a fine (but they have a smart phone and credit card with which to unlock a bike or scooter). But just try to enforce laws with the 'disadvantaged' and the SJWs will be out with protest signs and block freeways.
Re:Welcome to the Era of no personal responsibilit (Score:5, Interesting)
Typical NIMBY behavior (Score:1)
The end of non-commercial space (Score:2)
The scooters are technically illegal anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
Now then...
1) In pretty much all US jurisdictions the ONLY non-motor-vehicle device that can be used on public roads is bicycles*, and these electric scooters would not technically qualify as bicycles under the Federal CPSC definition. So they would not be legal for adults to use on public roads, at all...
*(-draft animals and drawn carts and wagons are still legal too, on most US roads but not all roads-)
2) Also in most US jurisdictions, the ONLY powered devices that can be used on sidewalks is mobility devices for assisting the handicapped, and they have their own set of requirements under the Federal ADA regulations. Among those requirements is that the person using them is medically handicapped...
3) The last option is if the scooters were declared as motor vehicles--but for that to happen, they would need to meet the Federal DOT regulations for one class of motor vehicles already defined, and the scooters would need to be issued VIN numbers (a standard format serial number issued by the Federal Dept of Transportation). And since the scooters cannot technically qualify as any class of motor vehicle, they can't do this either.
These scooters are only considered to be "motorized toys", and are only legal to use on private property--just like pocket bikes. Absent any special law to exempt them, they cannot legally be used on public sidewalks OR public roads.
This is also the reason that a few communities had to enact special laws for people to use Segways when they first came out.
Nowadays there are some handicapped people using Segways, and in that instance they could qualify for sidewalk use as in point #2 above.
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These electric scooters are regulated under California Vehicle Code 21220 - 21235. Like bicycle riders in the stats of California, every person operating a motorized scooter upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle, except those provisions which, by their very nature, can have no application. Motorized scooters are also allowed in all bicycle infrastructure unless forbidden by local authorities.
In California, motorized scooters are NOT allo
Less Cars = Good, No? (Score:2)
Scooters pollute less and use less petroleum than cars. They should be encouraged. Sounds like more traffic and parking enforcement is needed for them, however. Add that into the licensing fees.
It All Started (Score:2)
any evidence? (Score:2)
"They're reportedly bothering pedestrians enough for the city to take notice"
This sounds like a few random complaints (possibly from competitors). Is there any real evidence that they are bothering pedestrians e.g., surveys?
You think that's bad, visit Washington DC (Score:2)
You think that's bad, visit Washington DC. We have thousands of scooters and dockless bikeshare bikes littering the sidewalks. The companies literally dump their scooters and bikes outside the Metro entrances.
Riders just dump the scooters and bikes wherever they are done with them. It doesn't matter if it's in the middle of the sidewalk or the street or even on the grounds of a national monuments.
DC Council still thinks dockless scooters and bikes are the greatest thing since the "Taxation Without Repres