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Earth Government

Taiwan To Ban Plastic Straws, Cups and Shopping Bags By 2030 (channelnewsasia.com) 128

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: Taiwan is planning a blanket ban on single-use plastic items including straws, cups and shopping bags by 2030, officials said Thursday, with restaurants facing new restrictions from next year. It is the latest push by Taiwan to cut waste and pollution after introducing a recycling programme and charges for plastic bags. The island's eco-drive has also extended to limiting the use of incense at temples and festivals to protect public health. Its new plan will force major chain restaurants to stop providing plastic straws for in-store use from 2019, a requirement that will expand to all dining outlets in 2020. Consumers will have to pay extra for all straws, plastic shopping bags, disposable utensils and beverage cups from 2025, ahead of a full ban on the single-use items five years later, according to the road map from the government's Environmental Protection Administration (EPA).
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Taiwan To Ban Plastic Straws, Cups and Shopping Bags By 2030 More

Taiwan To Ban Plastic Straws, Cups and Shopping Bags By 2030

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  • Not seeing it.
    Straws are not exactly washable on the inside.

    What's next - multi-use TP ?

    • Re:Multi-use straws? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jetkust ( 596906 ) on Thursday February 22, 2018 @04:24PM (#56171069)
      There's also paper straws.

      I really don't like them and they feel weird on your lips, but they work.
    • I can picture a machine that businesses could buy to wash and sterilize straws, but it might not be very good for the environment.

    • Not seeing it. Straws are not exactly washable on the inside. What's next - multi-use TP ?

      You can buy reusable hard plastic straws - we have some. We just soak em in hot soapy water, then rinse. Not sure what procedures or machines you'd need for commercial application.

    • Re:Multi-use straws? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Dayze!Confused ( 717774 ) <slashdot.orgNO@SPAMohyonghao.com> on Thursday February 22, 2018 @04:34PM (#56171119) Homepage Journal

      It's a slightly different culture there. It's not that there are multi-use versions of straws, but that they give them out for everything. If you go to a 7-11 and get a 20oz bottle of coke, they give you a straw. Buy two of them, they give you two straws. It's essentially unheard of in a restaurant to have a drink without a straw also given to you even though the reusable cups can be drank from without a straw.

      I'm not certain how fast food places will change for this, as their lids make it impossible to drink without a straw, and the cups are flimsy without lids.

      One thing I can state, the shopping bags that they charge for there are of a much higher quality than the ones you get in the states. This may be that they start making higher quality cups that don't bend as easily for in restaurant use, or even start having reusable cups in McDonald's.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mark-t ( 151149 )

        I'm not certain how fast food places will change for this, as their lids make it impossible to drink without a straw, and the cups are flimsy without lids.Paper straws. Lots of restaurants already use these.

      • Lids for fast food places could always be changed to the type of lids used for disposable coffee cups, where there is a tab that is opened to drink the contents. No straw required.

    • There are paper straws, which are biodegradable and recyclable. They typically do survive a drink with a meal, unless you're the sort of person to keep a cup around for a few hours.

    • Not seeing it.

      Nah, they will go with environment friendly single-use straws . . . made of what, you ask . . . ?

      Bonsai Bamboo!

      . . . and the bamboo will sequester CO2 and stop global warming.

      What's next - multi-use TP ?

      Who needs TP . . . ? A good Japanese toilet will wash your hairy ass clean, and then blow dry it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by lgw ( 121541 )

        Who needs TP . . . ? A good Japanese toilet will wash your hairy ass clean, and then blow dry it.

        Just don't hit the "remove tampon" button by mistake.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MS ( 18681 )

      Why use straws at all? I learned to drink from the glass without sucking on a straw.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        For people with motion disorders, such as Parkinson's Disease or Essential Tremors, straws make the difference between being able to drink and being unable to do so. Banning all straws would be a VERY BAD thing, and if anyone tries it in the U.S., I guarantee there will be an ADA suit overturning the law within the first week.

        Of course, a ban on non-compostable plastic straws would be fine. There are plenty of more environmentally friendly alternatives that work just as well. But a ban on all plastic str

        • And for sweet drinks, a straw causes less of it to get on your teeth, contributing to deterioration of the choppers if you don't brush soon after.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by MS ( 18681 )

            I don't know how you drink. When I drink from a glass, the fluid hardly touches the lips (which vover the choppers, and then the tongue. I don't expose the choppers - and even when, it's only for a second. My teeth are in best health. That's a non-issue and a bad reason to pollute our world with plastic-trash.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MS ( 18681 )

          Which percentage of the population has Parkinson's Desease or any of the other problems you mention?!? Those should ask for the straws and get them for free. But for 99% of the users it's only unnecessary trash which gets added to a simple meal or drink. Stupid idea.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            No, a partial ban on drinking straws that allows restaurants to provide them for the handicapped is simply not a viable approach. A partial ban would make this reasonable accommodation increasingly hard to provide, and thus will make it more and more rare. The problem is, if you ban them for the rest of the population, then restaurants won't have any straws to provide, so the people who need them won't be able to get them even if they ask. It would take a *lot* of ADA lawsuits against individual busines

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by MS ( 18681 )

              Do you also drink wine, beer and an espresso with a straw?!?
              Using a straw should be the exception, not normality.... but in the USA people start lawsuits for every fart. :-(

    • North Americans are too comfortable with just MAKING YOUR OWN MESS SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM.

      Just pick up your damn litter, for a start. Keep it in your pocket. Carry it to the trash can.

      Secondly, don't take all of the disposable crap a store gives you! Take your own cup, your own cutlery. There are tiny ones that fit in your pocket or a bag.

      Third, if you see a mess, make it your problem if reasonable. You can wash your hands afterward. North Americans seem to have a problem picking stuff up or holding o
      • I say this as a Canadian from Toronto, which is apparently one of the worst cities for trash in North America. So you can see why I'm incensed when people scoff at the idea of being -even remotely responsible-.

        But I'll still keep being that asshole who calls people out on their shit. Throw your trash on the ground where I can see it, yeah, I'll say, "Pick up your trash asshole."

        Just want to make it that tiny bit less comfortable for some douchebag to shit up my city. It's OUR city. Not your messy dorm r

  • Good idea (Score:3)

    by omfglearntoplay ( 1163771 ) on Thursday February 22, 2018 @04:21PM (#56171063)

    Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff. Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

    • Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff. Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

      Well, a good burger, likely should be greasy enough that you need about 10 napkins (I'm not talking fast food burgers).

      But the thing that bothers me, if they do away with plastic "to-go" cups, how will you leave the bar with your to-go drink, without a to-go cup?

      Or...is that just mostly a New Orleans problem?

      ;)

      • With a paper/carton cup. Like the rest of the world!

        • With a paper/carton cup. Like the rest of the world!

          Unlike the rest of the world, in the US, our drinks are large and loaded full of ice....a flimsy paper cup won't last long.

          I mean, if I order a double long island tea when I'm leaving the bar....it will take me a bit to drink it and I need a cup that will last long enough for that, with a lid and straw please.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

      Indeed, especially, since they already require me to wear a shirt!

    • Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff.

      Many US cities have banned single-use plastic grocery bags, including my city, San Jose, California. You quickly get used to taking reusable bags or boxes with you when you shop.

      Single-use plastic bags are also banned in the entire state of Hawaii, since they are a hazard to sea turtles.

      China banned free single-use plastic grocery bags 10 years ago. You either pay for them when you checkout, or bring your own. Plastic bag use has dropped 70%.

      India has banned single-use plastic grocery bags in some cities

      • Re:Good idea (Score:5, Interesting)

        by edi_guy ( 2225738 ) on Thursday February 22, 2018 @05:33PM (#56171541)
        I was somewhat skeptical on the plastic bag ban when it was introduced, but I will say I definitely noticed the reduction in litter. Prior to the ban you would see plastic bags blowing in the wind like urban tumbleweed. After the ban, almost non-existent. Similar to composting (by the city, not your back yard). Initially it feels like you are being put upon, to sort yet another thing, have another bin, etc etc. But really you get used to it pretty quickly and the benefits far outweigh the perceived hassles.

        • In Taiwan even the McDonald's has separated trash bins. Generally recyclable, trash, and a place to dump your drinks and stack the cups. It's really not hard to separate the items before discarding them.

      • Heh! You hear about people asking "Paper or plastic?". Well, at my grocery store, they don't ask. Unless you quickly yell "Paper, damnit!", they'll start putting your crap in 15 tiny plastic bags. Much as I dislike bans, in the case of plastic bags, maybe the liberals have a point.

  • Sad, but necessary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chubs ( 2470996 ) on Thursday February 22, 2018 @04:26PM (#56171077)
    I lived in Taiwan for 2 years. This makes me both sad and hopeful. Hopeful because that island REALLY needs to focus on pollution. It's a country whose economy is built around manufacturing, and the factories dump tons of emissions into the air. I had a necktie I would show people when I came home. It was a nice charcoal grey tie. I'd then show them the back of the tie (the part that spent its life against my body, less exposed to the air), and it was royal blue. Bags and cups obviously don't contribute to air pollution, but the incense they mentioned definitely can (everything is extremely hazy during Ghost Month), and there is generally a lot of pollution of all forms, which you expect in such a densely populated area.

    On the flip side, I loved the street vendors that served drinks. They would make your drink, pour it into a 700cc plastic cup, then use a head press to melt a thin plastic lid to it (think slightly thicker Saran Wrap). You could throw 5 or 6 of them in a plastic bag and not worry about them spilling. When you are ready to drink it, jab the disposable plastic straw through the lid and drink up. It was a genius system, and I will miss it dearly. I don't know what will become of those drink stands (seriously one every other corner throughout every city I lived in).

    • They use that in America to sell bubble tea. They shrink wrap the top of the cup.

      You can make the seal from vegetable fiber/oil too, using local seaweed or local blue green algae, or even wood biproducts. Works fine. You just need to scale it up.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by chubs ( 2470996 )

        You just need to scale it up.

        This is the problem. Like I said, they are everywhere. And they aren't, for the most part, chain stores that can do this as a concerted effort. It's little independently owned shops. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's also not something that is going to be as trivial of a task as the original comment seemed to imply.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by chubs ( 2470996 )
          I was in the wrong context. Reading two different threads. Sorry that the comment here didn't make a ton of sense. I like your suggestion of biodegradable material, but it's going to be a lot of work, and I don't know if all the little independently owned shops will stay in business. We'll see.

        • But if they are phasing them out over twelve years, they have time to do that. First, they replace them in governments supply contracts, police, etc. Then they only allow imported non-plastic straws, to encourage local industry to provide them, but help them wean off.

      • Bubble Tea started in Taiwan, then made its way over to the States more recently. Having been traveling back and forth between both places I'm not exactly sure on the timeline of when Bubble Tea made it to the states, but it seems to be within the last 2-5 years, but I had it all the time 12 years ago in Taiwan at every single drink stand which are literally at least one, if not two or three, per block.

        • Bubble Tea started in Taiwan, then made its way over to the States more recently. Having been traveling back and forth between both places I'm not exactly sure on the timeline of when Bubble Tea made it to the states, but it seems to be within the last 2-5 years, but I had it all the time 12 years ago in Taiwan at every single drink stand which are literally at least one, if not two or three, per block.

          Try many decades. You need to get out more, grandpa.

  • Straws have two use cases:
    (1) If you're walking or driving and holding a drink
    (2) If you're disabled.

    I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

    • Straws have two use cases: (1) If you're walking or driving and holding a drink (2) If you're disabled.

      I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

      (3) You have teeth that are very sensitive to cold. Some of us experience real pain when ice or cold liquids come in contact with our incisors. When I encounter somewhere that does not offer straws (like the zoo) I have to order drinks sans ice.

      • Most drinks are refrigerated anyway -- putting ice in them is wasteful anyway and dilutes the taste.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jdavidb ( 449077 )

          Most drinks are refrigerated anyway -- putting ice in them is wasteful anyway and dilutes the taste.

          Waste is when you do something with your property that you don't like - not when somebody else does something with their property that you don't like.

        • One could also argue putting ice actually helps prevent overconsumption of wasteful calories as well, by watering down the drink.

    • you're drinking soda, and care about your tooth enamel.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jdavidb ( 449077 )

      I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

      Basically you're just a meddling judgmental busybody.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • They have had tech to make full vegetable fiber straws for at least a decade now, and all of the EU is converting to bio-plastics, so it's not difficult.

    As you scale up production, the prices drop. If you remove the artificial subsides for plastic disposal of non-recyclable materials, you can easily switch, using this thing we like to call "capitalist markets".

  • Burn them in an incineration. They are an excellent fuel source. And with a properly designed high-temperature incinerator the pollution is very low. (versus throwing plastic in a camp fire, where the fumes can be quite toxic)

    Waste to energy and recycling can coexist and be beneficial. Some things are practical to recycle. Other things take too much effort to collect and clean. And other things take too much energy to recycle and should be reused as many times as possible (ex: glass, steel).

    • A better idea is switch to vegetable fiber or algae/seaweed based fiber straws, which also can be incinerated. Since both sources are carbon sinks, this reduces greenhouse gasses, as opposed to already stored oil used for plastic straws, and the organic based straws are net neutral GHG, and also burn more cleanly.

      Science.

      • Agreed that fiber based products are often preferable. With old fashion paper drinking straws being an obvious choice.

        One issue I take with bioplastics is they often use food crops to make non-food items (PLA in the US is primarily made from corn starch). That is we could feed hungry people with corn flour, but instead we make biodegradable restaurant containers with it.

        But the whole bioplastic industry is a scam trying to solve a non-problem of carbon-neutral plastics. Petroleum-based plastics are approxim

        • Corn is always sub-optimal, due to fertilizers and water required for it.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Yeah, but that's ludicrously expensive compared to making bioplastics in the first place.

            I'm not convinced of that. Maybe little solar powered robots. We don't have to have it done fast either. If it takes a century for robots to clean it up, that would be reasonable. As long as removal of trash is faster than adding of trash. (that last part is the hard part, I think)

            Why make more work cleaning up a problem at the end when you can spend that money preventing the problem occurring?

            Problem is already here. Even if we stopped making it worse today, the problem would still be with us and likely wouldn't go away on its own.

            Ocean scrubbing with robots as the "solution" is a lame and incredibly expensive idea that involves non-existent fantasy tech.

            Harsh. Have you never watched a pool robot? It's not an idea based on a fantasy, it's not

  • I hate to admit it, but something I saw on Facebook actually changed my opinion on something.

    In particular it was an image of an animal that had died because it tried to eat a straw, which got stuck in its throat. Seemed like a nasty way to go.

    Combining that and the very slight convenience a straw offers over just drinking from a cup, and I'm in favor of saying most places should not have disposable straws, or at the very least just have straws on request for those that truly need them.

    In the meantime I do

    • I hate to admit it, but something I saw on Facebook actually changed my opinion on something.

      In particular it was an image of an animal that had died because it tried to eat a straw, which got stuck in its throat.

      Can we fight all the Russian hackers and fake news by giving straws to all Facebook users . . . ?

    • I was just thinking about the structural integrity while reading your comment. There would probably be quite a few spills that happen with cups without lids. But then I started thinking about the coffee cups with the lids that are perforated in a triangular shape. That might be something for the interim. Being able to get rid of the plastic lids would also reduce the plastic used, but once people are trained to drink things without straws then it shouldn't be too hard to get people to not spill drinks witho

      • How about "bring your own drinking container and ustensils"?

        It seemed weird to bring my own grocery bags when we started doing it, but now it's part of the daily life.

  • Why wait till 2030? We should avoid trash now, immediately. There's no valid reason to postpone a sane decision.

    • 2030 does seems quite far ahead for something like this. Two years should be more than enough for everyone to adjust, they should have said 2020.

  • Way to solve a problem by destroying the age-old solution to a long-past problem. The circle of forgetfulness.

    Show of hands: who remembers why we have disposable plastic products in the first place? Anyone? Anyone from Taiwan?

  • What the hell are you supposed to pick up dog poop with? (not the straw)

  • Why not now?!
  • ...when humans are as irresponsible as they are! https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

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