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Germany Starts Enforcing Hate Speech Law (bbc.com) 545

Germany is set to start enforcing a law that demands social media sites move quickly to remove hate speech, fake news and illegal material. From a report: Sites that do not remove "obviously illegal" posts could face fines of up to 50m euro ($60m). The law gives the networks 24 hours to act after they have been told about law-breaking material. Social networks and media sites with more than two million members will fall under the law's provisions. Facebook, Twitter and YouTube will be the law's main focus but it is also likely to be applied to Reddit, Tumblr and Russian social network VK. Other sites such as Vimeo and Flickr could also be caught up in its provisions.
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Germany Starts Enforcing Hate Speech Law

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  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:08AM (#55843265)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:20AM (#55843329)

      The "hate speech" laws are designed to crack down on "extremists" but of course they'll be used to crack down on "dissenting opinion" soon enough as the concept of hate speech is ill-defined and open to interpretation.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        That's a good point.

        Another thing we should remember is that it's always the political left pushing for "hate speech" legislation. It doesn't matter if we're talking about European nations, Canada, Australia, or even the US.

        It's always members of the political left who want to start classifying speech and limiting it in such ways. Of course, it's conveniently also always members of the political left who get to determine what is and what isn't "hate speech".

        The political right takes the opposite approach. I

        • MARXISM (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:44AM (#55843457)

          ...is always about Mind Control. They know that their ideology is so faulty it cannot stand the test of free speech. So they ALWAYS try to control the flow of information.

          Marxism, Mohammedism, SPARTA - all the same idealist, brutish, deadly stuff.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            As has been previously pointed out, the proponents of these ideologies think that their ideas are so good, they must be mandatory!
            • by skam240 ( 789197 )

              "As has been previously pointed out, the proponents of these ideologies think that their ideas are so good, they must be mandatory!"

              All laws are this. Crowing "they're trying to control us!" over a law you dont like ignores this very simple fact of reality. All societies put limits on personal freedom.

        • by Dare nMc ( 468959 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:13PM (#55843991)

          > The political right pushes for free speech and free expression for all.

          I guess you don't count Trump as political right. His plan to tax and punish coaches who don't shut-up players who wouldn't stand for the anthem, and using his official communication channel of his office to call for firing of those who speak against him. The same guy who want to shutdown news media that has opposed him, because fake news is in no way based on truth, but that he doesn't think anything opposing him is not news, no mater how much truth it is based on. That the right isn't doing much to oppose any of this, shows how little the care for the constitution of the US.

          I am not thinking the left is all good, but they are not anything to the extreme that the right is in the US at the moment.

          • by Shadow of Eternity ( 795165 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:28PM (#55844071)

            Funny how when you guys do it you justify things by saying "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences" but when someone else decides to simply not subsidize something you like it's fascism.

            • by Dare nMc ( 468959 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:52PM (#55844219)

              > "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences"

              Correct, but the first amendment actually prevents the US government from restricting speech, without a overwhelming societal interest. Using a political office to directly restrict political speech is clearly a violation of that amendment. Especially when it is just to protect the presidents ego, because the president stepped into a solved concern, that was handled by the league, until the president made it more than 100* worse by stepping in. I see no problem if the team wants to fire a player, and if fans want to boycott the team. That you have the highest office of the government threatening through their designated official communication channel to take official action if harm doesn't happen to those who don't support his view.

              Of course it isn't all the right, at least John McCain understands this president is doing permanent harm to the country: https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcC... [twitter.com]

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        You can make the same argument about US anti-speech laws. What is harassment? What is incitement? Is it your fault if you shout fire in a theatre and people believe you and get hurt? All open to interpretation and judgement, which is what we have a legal system for.

        I'm not a fan of this, I'm just pointing out that all countries have laws that require judicial interpretation, because real life is too complex to enumerate every possibly.

      • by Hal_Porter ( 817932 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @02:17PM (#55844365)

        In the UK each time there's a terrorist attack the hate speech laws get tightened up to catch 'extremists'. And each time it seems like a lot more people complaining about terrorism get caught than actual terrorists. Or even Islamists. Anjem Choudary was regularly invited on TV to spread his loathsome views and was allowed to recruit people for al Qaeda, ISIS etc up until 2016, even though hate speech laws were supposed to stop him

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        Meanwhile this hapless bastard got sent to prison, and mysteriously died there for putting a ham sandwich on a mosque. What did he die of? No one seems to care - even though there's supposed to be an inquiry no results of it were ever released.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new... [dailymail.co.uk]

        So Crehan got very effectively screwed for committing 'a racially-motivated attack'. Anjem Choudhary blatantly recruited for ISIS from 2002 to 2016, was invited on the BBC to do it and is very unlikely to die mysteriously in prison. British prisons have a load of Islamists, so he'll be a hero in there.

        tl;dr - hate speech laws get people who complain about Islamism, not actual Islamists.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:27AM (#55843365)

      A better question is, Does this forced censorship apply to Slashdot?

      The summary says, with added emphasis:

      Social networks and media sites with more than two million members ...

      Give that Slashdot is a discussion site and news site, I think it would match the "social network" and "media site" criteria. This brings us to the user count.

      There appear to be at least 4 million Slashdot accounts, since there are users like religionofpeas [slashdot.org] who has a user ID of 4511805. From what I can tell, the Slashdot user ID is sequential, since CmdrTaco [slashdot.org] has a user ID of 1, and we have long-time Slashdot users like jcr [slashdot.org], who has a user ID of 53032.

      Now there's always the possibility that some user IDs were skipped at some point, or that one personal has multiple accounts (like is probably the case with the so-called "creimer" family of accounts). But since the user IDs are well into at least the 4.5 million range, it would seem to me like Slashdot is well past the two million user threshold described in the summary.

      So again, the question to ask is, Does this forced censorship apply to Slashdot?

      Another question to ask is, If Slashdot is obliged to engage in such censorship, how is Slashdot's management going to deal with it? Will they accept it and delete content deemed "bad" by some bureaucrats far off in Europe? Or will they fight it? Or will they just block all German users, as much as is possible? Just what will the Slashdot management do?

      • There appear to be at least 4 million Slashdot accounts

        There may be that many accounts, but there are no where near that many active users. Slashdot readership is way down from the peak.

        • by tsqr ( 808554 )

          There appear to be at least 4 million Slashdot accounts

          There may be that many accounts, but there are no where near that many active users. Slashdot readership is way down from the peak.

          The law applies to social networks with "at least 2 million members". Note the absence of any qualifier such as "active".

          • The law applies to social networks with "at least 2 million members". Note the absence of any qualifier such as "active".

            You are quoting the BBC article, not the law.

            Very few German laws are written in English.

            The law uses the term "Nutzern" which is more accurately translated as "user" than as "member", and the the "at least 2 million" refers to users IN GERMANY, not worldwide.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The answer is no, because Slashdot has no business presence in Germany so no fines can be levied. Only companies that exist in German jurisdiction are affected.

    • On the contrary, Hitler rose to power because the Weimarer Republic had no provisions against hate speech and parties who directly acted against the constitution. Continuous hate speech, violence in the streets by the SA, and flaws in the constitution in combination allowed Nazis to take advantage of a power vacuum and then seize complete control after Hitler was elected. One of the lessons learned from the Nazi regime and the failure of the Weimarer Republic was that a democracy must be able to defend itse

      • The Weimarer Republic had a law against hate speech. It is actually the same paragraph as nowadays, paragraph 130, codified with the rest of the the criminal code of the German Empire in 1871 and it was worded well enough to suppress the Nazis. Unfortunately it has been only used to prosecute socialists, just as it was planned right from the beginning, while the Nazis were tolerated.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Orgasmatron ( 8103 )

          Unfortunately it has been only used to prosecute socialists, just as it was planned right from the beginning, while the Nazis were tolerated.

          You do know that the Nazis were socialists, right? I mean, it is right there in the name. And in the party platform. And in the books. And in the speeches. And in the policies.

          The "right wing" in Germany was terminal by the 1920s. Germany was getting socialism ASAP, the question was - who is going to be in charge of German socialism?

          On the broadest level, the deb

          • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] - "The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (helpinfo), abbreviated NSDAP), commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party (/ntsi/), was a far-right political party in Germany that was active between 1920 and 1945 and practised the ideology of Nazism." - far and right and far left always look very similar
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by skam240 ( 789197 )

            Oh, "right there in the name"? So the Democratic Republic of North Korea (North Korea's legitimate name) is a Democratic Republic? What a world you live in. But alright, sure, on economic issues Nazis are to the Left a good portion of the time.

            Now here's something that is really going to blow your mind though. This is not at all the reason why Nazis are one of history's greatest monsters. If the Germans had stayed in Germany and not killed millions of people no one would care.

            Basically, what makes Nazism is

            • by skam240 ( 789197 )

              Correction: "But alright, sure, on economic issues the Nazis of the 30's and 40's are to the Left a good portion of the time"

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @07:10PM (#55845899) Homepage Journal

            Nazis are not socialists. They adopted some socialist ideas to get elected, standard populist stuff. But as soon as they had a grip on power they abandoned all that.

            Gotta ask, does having a word in the name really make you think the organisation is that word? I mean, do you think that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy? I don't think that's how it works.

          • You are a bloody liar.
            First, the Weimar government was suppressing the communists, paying the Freikorps - private right wing paramilitary organisations - to do the dirty work.
            Second, SA started as the paramilitary organisation of the Nazi party in the first place, created to intimidate political enemies.
            But I do understand why you lie and try to whitewash the Nazis - you yourself are a fucking brownshirt.

      • "A totalitarian dictator rose to power because the state wasn't totalitarian enough to silence and repress his movement before he became a dictator!"

        Yeah that argument doesn't really sound too compelling. It's kinda like when the military wing of the social justice movement, Antifa, shows up in their black and red uniforms with their black and red flags and start violently attacking everyone who disagrees with them... starting with the practicing jews they call "nazis".

    • It's funny, my history classes always told me that Nazis took over because economy was shit and there was street violence, not because there was censorship on hate speech.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Well, they have to work within the boundaries of a Constitution that was written by the victorious allies in WW2 to ensure the thorough de-Nazification of the country which had been thoroughly under the Nazi party's thumb for sixteen years.

  • by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:16AM (#55843301) Homepage

    And so it begins again.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    https://www.rt.com/news/414744-berlin-sexual-harassment-arrested/

    https://www.rt.com/news/414742-german-broadcaster-criticized-stabbing-refugee/

  • by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:27AM (#55843363)

    ... that social media is not your father's "me too," AOL.

    The problem is not that there's hate speech on social media.

    The problem is that people on social media validate the activity by objecting.

    When governments regulate social media, social media becomes a branch of the government.

    It's not. Leave it alone and don't feed the trolls.

    • by lucasnate1 ( 4682951 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @12:47PM (#55843857) Homepage

      According to your logic:
      - When corporations regulate social media, it becomes a branch of the corporation.
      - When nobody regulates social media, it becomes a branch of bots and spammers.

      • by deesine ( 722173 )
        Fine, so long as government stays out.
        • And now you are talking religion, you designate some group as evil "government" while allowing other groups to behave exactly the same. Sorry, in my eyes, a corporate dictator or a mob dictator is just the same as a government dictator. Hell, I suspect that in the future government dictators may actually be easier to replace than the corporate ones.

    • "We have to put a stop to the idea that it is a part of everybody's civil rights to say whatever he pleases." - Adolf Hitler [azquotes.com]

      This is the movie trope about a superweapon developed by the bad guys falling into the hands of the good guys. Some of the good guys say destroy it, others say use it to advance the cause of good. The latter wins out and the weapon is used to defeat the bad guys. But then in the future, new bad guys infiltrate the good guys' government and gain control of the superweapon, and use
  • Just like the utterly stupid EU cookie law that's been enforced, I think one time in Spain, if people will follow a stupid, pointless law (even outside the EU!), they definitely will follow unjust ones. I can imagine Germany threatening non-German companies and people giving in or paying, giving the same moronic excuse they give for following the EU cookie law plastering their site with a pointless notification "well, better safe than sorry, hurrr!"
  • I don't get it. Since Trump was elected, Merkel is now the leader of the free world [indy100.com]! This isn't free, it can't possibly be Merkel...

  • I think how oh so very satisfied Hitler would be.
  • by Mr307 ( 49185 ) on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:41PM (#55844141)

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

    The left has always had a more slippery slope towards authoritarian, fascist, totalitarian rule since they are imposing it all for our own good.

  • Sites that do not remove "obviously illegal" posts could face fines of up to 50m euro ($60m).

    Somehow, there are no lamentations today about the unwashed Americans being insufficiently similar to the enlightened Europeans...

  • Because if there's anyone who you'd trust to determine that some news is fake under penalty of destroying your business and maybe jailing you if you don't have a few million dollars to hand over, the government of Germany comes to mind.

Two can Live as Cheaply as One for Half as Long. -- Howard Kandel

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