Germany Preparing Law for Backdoors in Any Type of Modern Device (bleepingcomputer.com) 251
Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: German authorities are preparing a law that will force device manufacturers to include backdoors within their products that law enforcement agencies could use at their discretion for legal investigations. The law would target all modern devices, such as cars, phones, computers, IoT products, and more. Officials are expected to submit their proposed law for debate this week, according to local news outlet RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND). The man supporting this proposal is Thomas de Maiziere, Germany's Interior Minister, who cites the difficulty law enforcement agents have had in past months investigating the recent surge of terrorist attacks and other crimes.
Define (Score:3)
"Legal"
Good luck on that, it's a slippery idea that is resistant to being pigeonholed.
Re: Define (Score:2, Insightful)
If we lose all personal privacy, then the terrorists have won.
Re: Define (Score:5, Insightful)
Incorrect. The only people that lose are people who are not terrorists. Terrorists will simply use methods which are 100% immune to this law - which are plentiful. The end result, as with gun control, is that the only people who lose are good, lawful people. In the end, the only winners are tyrants and terrorists - and the stupid who believe the easily invalidated propaganda.
Not to mention it means that these devices become engineered to facilitate hacking. Which now means everyone is now vulnerable to blackmail, extortion, kidnapping, or simply exploitation, and any number of other crimes. Again, bringing us full circle that the only winners are tyrants and terrorists.
Only the very ignorant, very stupid, or very evil, support this type of move. As for Merkel, it's because she's very evil. She openly advocates the murder and displacement (even complete replacement) of the German people. Just as Obama and Hillary advocate for America - and all the other evil, globalist leaders in the Western world are currently doing.
Re: Define (Score:5, Insightful)
They are a MASSIVE vulnerability just waiting to get cracked, and if they are mandatory, all it takes is a single slip and that entire group is totally unprotected!
It's not a question of IF it will be used and abused, but simply WHEN
Sorry for the caps, but I really wanted to highlight those specific words to get across the point to some of the readers.
Re: Define (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Define (Score:5, Funny)
NOBODY in security EVER thinks a backdoor is a good thing! They are a MASSIVE vulnerability just waiting to get cracked, and if they are mandatory, all it takes is a single slip and that entire group is totally unprotected! It's not a question of IF it will be used and abused, but simply WHEN
Fixed it for you.
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Terrorists will simply use methods which are 100% immune to this law - which are plentiful.
So will plenty of other people. They can simply drive across the nearest border to buy their phone in Denmark, Poland, Netherlands, etc. That isn't far since Germany is tiny, smaller than California. It would fit into Texas twice. So this will hurt the German economy, but otherwise have little effect on anyone with anything to hide.
Re: Define (Score:4, Insightful)
EU.
How much you willing to bet that if Germany succeeds here, they'll push for an EU-wide version?
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How much you willing to bet that if Germany succeeds here, they'll push for an EU-wide version?
If only there was some historical evidence that Germans are more willing than other people to resort to authoritarianism ...
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The frightening thin is that there really isn't such evidence. People all over like authoritarianism.
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First if all that are not Nazi laws.
Like in Germany you can only buy short wave radios with approved frequencies, on the other side of the border these same radios can receive anything.
That is nonsense, radio licenses are regulated very similar all over Europe. In some countries you dont need a license, but the radios are just the same.
The recent banning of child toys with WIFI capabilities was based on this Nazi law, not because of the frequencies used but based on what the radio waves were used for.
That
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How nice of you to post bullshit that is so obviously crap that not even a insane conspiracy theorist would believe them. Idiot.
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Which is already (since the Hitler years) illegal.
Bullcrap. There is currently no German law against using cell phones purchased in foreign countries, and millions of people do it everyday.
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Re: Define (Score:4, Insightful)
as with gun control, is that the only people who lose are good, lawful people.
Germany is not the US. Sure organised criminals can obtain guns, but you have very little chance of being shot when stumbling across a burglar in places like Germany. I call that a win.
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East Germany has won over West Germany!
News at 1100!
Ok.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not ban all security on devices while you're at it?
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If I had mod points, and if I could multi-mod comments, I would give -1 for redundant and +1 for underrated... ;-)
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No kidding. Idiots not understanding technology making rules about it... /sigh
I'm in awe of your low number user ID.
if I were GeegawCo, I'd pull out (Score:3)
deliver notice to the regulators proposing this that GeegawCo would cease operating in Germany, including any network/remote/cloud operations, if this were enacted. ship the money back home and dump 'em.
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Seems like the responsible thing to do, could even couch it in a "we respect and value our customers and dont want them to be at risk" type message.
If it were a large enough entity it could cause a kerfuffle or if there were enough of them willing to leave, could be even more interesting. No doubt some competitor with less principles will fill the market, its easily big enough for most manufacturing scales depending on the gadget.
Almost want them to follow through with this kind of crazy, could be a fantas
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I get your point but in general I still disagree, self interest will tend to follow public interest, probably till some point on the scale is passed so it would mean that most companies of smaller size will be more actually interested in public interest as compared to larger ones.
Repetition (Score:2)
Nice to see Germany returning to its totalitarian roots.
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Nice to see Germany taking one for the team... I read this and immediately thought: Thank God some other nation besides the US is stupid enough to try this first, thus giving other nations the proof we need to kill such notions before they take root... wait... that's how this works, right?
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Actually we are not doing this.
It is just another minister who forgot to read the constitution befrore he took his office.
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Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening. Totalitarian tendencies are strong in Germany, despite its bad history in this regards. Many people want the state to control everything. And now that the resistance had gone way weaker, the proto-fascist in government and administration try hard to become the real thing again.
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Totalitarian tendencies are strong in Germany,
That is nonsense. Hint: I'm German, and mainly live in Germany.
Many people want the state to control everything
That is even more nonsense,
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Bullshit. Germany have very protection against just this for obvious reasons: the verfassungsschutz or translated protection of the constitution.
It is an unique system to make any system that goes against the German constitution very hard to implement. It is a system that (yes!) infringes on personal freedom if that is the way to stop totalitarian groups to increase in power. It doesn't as such protect the current system but the idea of a free state without totalitarian tendencies.
Is it perfect? Nothing eve
Obligatory Stasi remark (Score:5, Insightful)
And I had thought east germany had joined west germany, not the other way around...
Re:Obligatory Stasi remark (Score:5, Interesting)
And I had thought east germany had joined west germany, not the other way around...
All states are at war with their respective publics, see this comment by former national security advisor. It's the rich vs the rest.
Citizens called a "global menace" here by former national security advisor of the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY [youtube.com]
Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. See the manufacturing consent videos when you get the time. Science on reasoning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ [youtube.com]
Crisis of democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFxtNgOeiI [youtube.com]
Book:
http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf [trilateral.org]
Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 [youtube.com]
Wikileaks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDiHspTJww&feature=youtu.be [youtube.com]
Manufacturing consent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM [youtube.com]
https://vimeo.com/39566117 [vimeo.com]
Re:Obligatory Stasi remark (Score:5, Insightful)
Call me old-fashioned but I can't help considering someone ridiculous who apparently gets all his knowledge from Youtube videos. No matter what message you've got, I didn't even check it and don't care, try reading some books first. You can find them in the library.
Uhh you do know the first video is former national security advisor of the united states? AKA someone with serious foreign policy credibility, he's been giving speeches everywhere and talking about his concern for the political awakening of the publics of the world. The reality is the rich are exploiting everyone else and that has elites concerned because it's starting to become obvious the elites have always been robbing the world and the rule of law is a myth. That's the reality, otherwise he wouldn't call the political awakening of the masses a "menace", aka a menace to their profits.
In his 1970 book Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era, Brzezinski wrote the following.
"The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."
Between two ages [amazon.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski [wikipedia.org]
From war is a racket:
"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."[p. 10]
"War is a racket. ...It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." [p. 23]
"The general public shoulders the bill [for war]. This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations." [p. 24]
General Butler is especially trenchant when he looks at post-war casualties. He writes with great emotion about the thousands of traumatised soldiers, many of who lose their minds and are penned like animals until they die, and he notes that in his time, returning veterans are three times more likely to die prematurely than those who stayed home.
War is a racket [amazon.com]
He wrote this on american empire, aka the rich (big business) vs the rest of mankind.
The grand chessboard [amazon.com]
The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives
Grand chessboard user review [amazon.com]
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I guess those things are the reason one bright mind invented 'Butlers Jihad'.
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I guess those things are the reason one bright mind invented 'Butlers Jihad'.
Erm...
The Butlerian Jihad, as in "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." ?
You mean the killer robot conspiracy started by Edison and fought by Tesla?
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Has anybody told them they're idiots? (Score:5, Insightful)
The first people to get the backdoors will be cops.
The second people will the in organized crime. It'll only take one bad law enforcement employee on their payroll to leak it... and THAT is just if there's some kind of key involved. The system itself will be public before the first device is even sold, since the standards will have to be given to the manufactures and they're going to leak like sieves.
Then you'll have a nation of devices that are completely untrustworthy. In theory... because in practice this is so obviously too stupid to work that they can't possibly go forward with it.
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" In theory... because in practice this is so obviously too stupid to work that they can't possibly go forward with it."
And people pacifying themselves with sentiments like these are how these theories are put into practice.
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The most dangerous and troubling thing about this: If it gets passed in Germany, it'll be considered precedent in other countries (like the U.S.). In a world where all data security is compromised, there won't be any security for anyone (except the cops, maybe the military, and definitely THE RICH). At that point there won't be any reason to own a cellphone beyond the cheapest clamshell dumbphone, a computer
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Here I thought Germany had it's collective head screwed on straight. Boy was I ever wrong, I guess.
See elsewhere in this thread; it's Trump's corrupting influence, dontchaknow. Read some of those and your worldview will be back on the rails in no time.
Never mind that Germany has been competing with the UK for years to see who can create the most chilling thought-police state in Western Europe to deal with mass immigration opponents. Nah. You're only just now noticing how bad it's gotten.
Too fucking late.
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>See elsewhere in this thread; it's Trump's corrupting influence, dontchaknow.
People often mix up cause and effect; Trump is an effect, not a cause.
Trump is what happens when you ignore the fact that humans are fundamentally emotional, tribal animals and you allow a significant group of disgruntled people to form a tribal identity and blame their problems on another 'tribe'... that's sad but it happens.
The people you really need to string up and beat like pinatas are the opportunists who feed the flames
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In general?
The majority of people are extremely emotional. They allow themselves to be entirely controlled by fear, have no idea of statistics, and aren't able to properly manage risk.
And it isn't "getting". No, people have always, always been like this.
What happened after 9/11? The largest removal of rights in US history! Most of those rights are STILL gone.
And to make this a 'German thing', just how do you think Hitler got into power? His government was elected in power, because FEAR FEAR! Fear the
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Actually, it will probably leak before any device with the system even hits the market. It only takes one annoyed employee of a device manufacturer to dump the specs and keys on Wikileaks.
In fact, it would be hilarious if this inevitable person released a file right now that simply said "if this law passes, this fill will contain the specs and keys. see if you can find out where it came from."
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You mix that up a little bit. ...
The first people will either be organized crime or foreign intelligence agencies.
The second people are those who failed to be the first.
Then law enforcement would come
However as such laws/backdoors never will exist ... it is just playing mind games.
the Nazi's had laws like this! (Score:2)
the Nazi's had laws like this!
Good! (Score:3, Insightful)
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> SOMETHING has to slow down the German economy before they own us all. Chasing out all technology would do it.
Calm yourself there Mr. Little.
The "German work ethic" already makes the world safe for the rest of us.
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The trick to success is NOT to drag everyone around you down, it's to life yourself up. Weakening Germany won't really improve things for others.
Notice that even bombing them into ruin 75 years ago didn't work all that well....
Unlikely this will pass (Score:2)
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It will. But it is highly alarming that the fascistoid politicians pushing for this will not stop, but try again and again. It will likely not even get passed in the first place, and if it does, it will very likely get killed by the Bundesverfassungsgericht, i.e. on federal level. It has no chance at all on EU level, should it come to that.
In the end, this law would sabotage society and far worse so than any amount of terrorism ever could. It is essentially Zersetzung, as it undermines trust and that is the
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Germany now has the same investigative powers to protect "democracy.".
Why would a strong pro-privacy movement be able to block the police and security forces in Germany from protecting democracy?
Would the police protecting Germany democracy allow a pro-privacy movement to start blocking the police from protecting Germany democracy?
Anyone in a German pro-privacy movement wo
Intel Management Engine (ME) (Score:2)
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They cannot use that one for law enforcement. As sources need to be protected, they can use this rarely and very carefully for intelligence purposes. A source you do not protect is one you lose. Incidentally, if the attack code for this ever leaks, we have a global catastrophe. And since not even the NSA can protect their attack code against having it stolen...
That will be easy (Score:2)
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Oh, sorry, the governments still get to keep secrets. Its just you plebs that do not have the right to privacy.
Global Economy (Score:2)
We live in a global economy today. Does this mean all digital devices imported into the country need to have these same backdoors? Probably so. Are manufacturers lazy, and want to build one-size-fits-all devices? You damn right they are. Meaning if this passes, device models sold to Germany will ALSO have these same backdoors sold elsewhere in the world.
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With the key, security services can change the settings.
In the past that got seen with collection like in
Greek wiretapping case 2004–05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]–05
SISMI-Telecom scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Germany will just go for software that can read "messages "at source" on users' screens." "remotely record all calls" "turn on its microphone and camera"
"Surveillance: German poli
Preparing a law? (Score:3)
I doubt it. They don't even have a government yet.
Nobody knows what and if a coalition will be formed.
There might be new elections.
This is nothing else but bullshit.
Extra door for your BMW or Mercedes? (Score:2)
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My Skoda Superb already has a door on the back! Is it already compliant?
Aftermarket? Homemade? (Score:2)
And what if I install a so-called "after market firmware" that hinders that backdoor?
And what if I install a home-made (read "linux based") device instead of a "commercial" one?
Will I be considered "out of law"?
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Once the German security services find that account to be interesting they will be "reading the messages "at source" on users' screens." on that Linux software sitting on very commercial cell phone.
"Surveillance: German police ready to hack WhatsApp messages" (25.07.2017)
http://www.dw.com/en/surveilla... [dw.com]
Changes in software on standard h
Can’t work, except with small-time stupid cr (Score:2)
Let’s assume the iPhone is the target of this law because, frankly, it probably is. And let’s assume Timmy & Co. cave in because they like money.
Any good criminal network will have at least a few people bright enough to write code. Those people can implement existing strong encryption algorithms themselves. They can also teach people how to get their own free developer key and to install their own secure apps onto their own phones using Xcode. Sure, they’ll have to reinstall once a wee
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The flipside, is that they don't need to access the criminals communications, they can simply prosecute them for having communications they can't access. Because THAT will be illegal now.
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Criminal networks just talk at the trusted family, tribe and community level.
The place of worship and at community events becomes their cover for meeting and talking. Police can't enter such events undercover as they have no reason to be part of that faith, community or tribe.
The criminal networks know all the tech is fully open to German police and the security services and use it for decades of misinformation.
Long term crimin
A security backdoor simple enough for cops (Score:2)
Will be childs play for Russian and Chinese hackers.
So Germany is mandating insecure networks.
Future Hitler aproves new infrastructure ! (Score:2)
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A nationalist and a proto-fascist would think this is a good idea. The present young generation (gen Z for "zero", as I like to think of them) does not care. And so it begins.
Its not you dummy! (Score:2)
We spy on you because of them.
--
If it were easy, it wouldn't be called life.
Not what I was expecting.... (Score:2)
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What? Are you nuts? Slaughter the goose laying the golden eggs? If you do that, they'll immediately realize how stupid they were and backpedal.
Hack everything else, far more lucrative and far less backlash. Jeeeesh, kids these days, can't even identify the correct hacking targets.
*sniff* (Score:2)
If only Erich Mielke [wikipedia.org] could still be with us to see his dream come true...
Thomas, I usually sell good IT security advice (Score:5, Insightful)
because my job. This one's free. First of all, I might eventually be affected by that bullshit if it spreads and second, it's always a pleasure belittling you and showing you just how big an idiot you really are.
First and foremost, there is no such thing as a "government only" backdoor. A backdoor is or is not. A backdoor that MUST be in EVERY device, independent of maker and the kind of device is by definition a high profile target for every hacker on this planet. Everyone wants to have that. That includes every state actor. I.e. other nations WILL want to have that backdoor. Now, of course you might share it with friends. It's unlikely that you want to share it with states like, say, North Korea or that Daesh idiots (that's ISIS for you, in case you didn't keep up with the news). Yes, Thomas, you're about to give terrorists a tool to invade German devices.
Way to go, aren't you supposedly at least kinda-sorta responsible for the internal security of the state?
How they get it you ask? Are you kidding? We're talking about the universal key to EVERY computer in your country. Every private, every corporate, every government system. You think a state actor (especially a rogue state actor) would shy away from kidnapping someone's family if he as much as MIGHT have access to the relevant keys? Here's your wife, Thomas, here is your kids. Hand over the keys and don't talk about it or, well, I spare you the details.
And even worse, you won't get what you want to get, Thomas. Because you don't think that anyone outside of Germany would as much as touch a device with a "German backdoor" installed, do you? Twice so if a state actor. No. Outside of Germany, you'll get secure devices (well, more or less... but at least not deliberately insecured ones). It is trivial, not only to me because that's what I do for a living, but to everyone with at least a minimum knowledge of IT to diff a "good" and one of your "bad" devices to see what's different between them. And what's different between them is your backdoor. It is now also trivial to patch such a security hole in a way that you'll be locked out again. And you can rest assured that every terrorist on the planet will make sure to plug that and lock you out.
Thomas. Again. Usually, I sell good advice. This one is actually free. Stop that idiocy before it costs you your job. I kinda like your party. Even though you're a grade A moron.
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I think you are mistaken. I suspect they could do this with key escrow. Buy a new device? To set it up, you have to get your keys issued to you by the state. Each device can have a unique key or set of keys, but they would all be owned by the state... not you. Then your phone goes through the encryption process with the key or keys it's been issued. Get arrested and they want to read your phone? No problem, send it to the single well funded government organization that has your keys on file. They do
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The whole shit flies out the window the second the device gets rooted. And you can rest assured that this is the first thing anyone with nefarious intent will do. Make it illegal? Fuck, do people planning to blow themselves to kingdom come give half a shit about a law concerning their phone? What do you want to do, arrest him? We're still talking about someone willing to blow himself up, to kill himself. You think he gives half a shit about your laws?
What you'd have to do is make rooting a phone illegal. On
Other Nations' Intelligence Services Thank You (Score:2)
Chill. Headline isn't entirely correct. (Score:3)
A source claims Thomas de Maizière would like to have backdoors in popular apps. That doesn't mean he'll get them or, as a matter of fact, that the Bundestag will pass a law to make those mandatory. Since the Third Reich Germany has been, shall I say, a tad sensitive on the invulnerability of privacy in mail and telecommunications. I doubt he'd get it through the Bundestag let alone past supreme court.
It's just a German gouvernment official probing the waters machiavelli style. Just like in the US. No news here. Move along.
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They have no idea of the level of extra effort.... (Score:2)
Oh, of course these people may be breaking the law, but that's not going to help the people that will get harmed in the interim.
I expect they will realize their folly within about 6 months to a year,
What could possibly go wrong??? (Score:2)
Re:Attach a rider (Score:4, Funny)
Kicked in? More like built for a skeleton key. Of course, the key and all copies will be labeled "Law Enforcement Use Only."
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> Trump won, at least in part, due to foreign meddling.
Keep telling yourself that nonsense and you will continue losing elections. Sooner or later you have to assume some personal responsibility for your failures.
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or cars...
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That is a pretty big conspiracy . Title 2 has both good and bad aspects, letting the ISPs fark us over is just 100% bad. Claiming the purpose behind it is differnt then all the stated purposes is just for that one is pretty silly..
In fact the FCC did not even need title 2 to do so, they did it in 2005 and the courts agreed that even though they were not title 2 carriers they could still fall under CALEA, so moving them to title 2 is not an issue with that.
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That is a pretty big conspiracy . Title 2 has both good and bad aspects, letting the ISPs fark us over is just 100% bad. Claiming the purpose behind it is differnt then all the stated purposes is just for that one is pretty silly..
In fact the FCC did not even need title 2 to do so, they did it in 2005 and the courts agreed that even though they were not title 2 carriers they could still fall under CALEA, so moving them to title 2 is not an issue with that.
But another court can overturn the previous decision/precedent. Placing them under Title II assures they are required to comply.
From the CALEA Wiki:
The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) is a United States wiretapping law passed in 1994, during the presidency of Bill Clinton (Pub. L. No. 103-414, 108 Stat. 4279, codified at 47 USC 1001-1010).
CALEA's purpose is to enhance the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct lawful interception of communication by requiring that telecommunications carriers and manufacturers of telecommunications equipment to modify and design their equipment, facilities, and services to ensure that they have built-in capabilities for targeted surveillance, allowing federal agencies to selectively wiretap any telephone traffic; it has since been extended to cover broadband Internet and VoIP traffic. Some government agencies argue that it covers mass surveillance of communications rather than just tapping specific lines and that not all CALEA-based access requires a warrant.
Strat
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Oops, forgot the Wiki linky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Strat
Re:NN's Ultimate Purpose (Score:4, Informative)
This is the ultimate purpose behind placing ISPs under Title II in order to place them under CALEA requirements which could easily be interpreted to require exactly the same kind of 'back doors' on devices.
And of course any such interpretation would be factually incorrect.
CALEA was applied to ISPs in 2005. Title II classification would not arrive for another decade.
CALEA applies to telecommunications service providers only. It does not apply to software and hardware vendors. It does not compel service providers to hand over keys they don't have or restrict the activities of users. It does not mandate the installation of back doors into anything except the infrastructure of telecommunications service providers.
The propaganda has worked so well we have people violently protesting to have their own privacy taken away.
At least get your facts straight before posting provably false information. There are plenty of valid reasons to disapprove of CALEA and criticize U.S. government for it.
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Law enforcement has had and always should have the ability to listen in the middle just like they do with phone lines.
First, there is no reason wiretapping should always be an option.
Second, and much more important. WITH A WARRANT! Not this insane "at their discretion" logic, only when investigation of a crime suggests that such forms of espionage would provide useful evidence in a less intrusive or destructive manner than alternatives.
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Why don't you just deport all of the Muslim immigrants back to their homelands instead of taking away more freedom in the name of tolerance?
Because that is what this is all about?
Sorry buddy, Abdul just cannot bring himself to become a good German. He insists on acting like he's still back in the Middle East and resents that the kafir has a higher standard of living than he does, so you understand that in the name of Tolerance and Inclusion, we must impose highly onerous surveillance policies on you. I mean you're not a bigot right? You wouldn't want us to just say "wouldn't the path of least resistance and harm to German society and culture be to send Abdul back" now would you?
Abdul? I though Jacob was the evil one in Germany
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But good sir, are you honestly implying that diversity isn't the panacea we've been led to believe? Diversity!
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Nothing. This is not about fighting crime. This is about making the whole population feel watched to prevent wrongthink.
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The fact that they are "victims" is entirely irrelevant. These people won't even use a public toilet properly. They have zero interest in assimilating, fitting in, or just being nice guests.
Even the Turks don't want them.