EU Presidency Calls For Massive Internet Filtering, Leaked Document Shows (edri.org) 236
An anonymous reader shares a report: A Council of the European Union document leaked by Statewatch on 30 August reveals that during the summer months, that Estonia (current EU Presidency) has been pushing the other Member States to strengthen indiscriminate internet surveillance, and to follow in the footsteps of China regarding online censorship. Standing firmly behind its belief that filtering the uploads is the way to go, the Presidency has worked hard in order to make the proposal for the new copyright Directive even more harmful than the Commission's original proposal, and pushing it further into the realms of illegality. According to the leaked document, the text suggests two options for each of the two most controversial proposals: the so-called "link tax" or ancillary copyright and the upload filter.
They're really going to need one now (Score:4, Funny)
New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Those of us in the tech sector need to be seriously talking about building a new layer of internet on top of the old one.
Human expression and dignity is under assault by fascists cloaked in the sheepskin of virtue.
Google, Facebook, Cloudflare, are now marching lockstep with the oppressive regimes of China and the EU.
Re:New internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Those of us in the tech sector need to be seriously talking about building a new layer of internet on top of the old one.
Agreed. I have been thinking about this for some time. There's got to be some kind of Virtual Internet (maybe based on VPNs) that we can build over the top of the current Internet. One where all traffic is encrypted and the sources are untraceable. Similar to TOR, but without all of the hops.
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Any attempt at anonymity is useless "without all the hops". It's the only way to make traffic analysis non-trivial. IMO, Freenet was the right approach - turn everything into a big distributed hash table. No servers to take down, everything encrypted and p2p, assembling encrypted blobs of content into something coherent only happens at the client. Too bad it's so inherently slow it never took off, but "slow" may be the inevitable price if you want untraceable sources and no take-downs.
Freenet had its ow
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Any attempt at anonymity is useless "without all the hops". It's the only way to make traffic analysis non-trivial.
I don't think so. With point-to-multipoint tunnels, the routers in the middle would never know where the traffic inside the tunnels was destined.
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That doesn't scale. We tried that back in the early days where every host received every frame/packet and decided to open it or ignore it.
Nor is it secure, because no one cares about the destination, they care about the source. Every router that receives a packet will simply log where it came from. Follow the chain long enough and you get to a host that generated it. Logging will be required. Passing along encrypted data you didn't decrypt and inspect first will be verboten. Install our spyware and ce
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Until your endpoint is hacked with a zero day exploits. Also sadly, too many websites engage in profound tracking efforts involving tracking cookies, back end shared databases, and commonly sourced websites carrying personal information to be completely sure of privacy.
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IMO, Freenet was the right approach - turn everything into a big distributed hash table. (...) Too bad it's so inherently slow it never took off
I don't think it was inherent, it was just stupid. I looked into it... wow, it must be 10 years ago or something and it didn't scale because with many nodes and relatively small node sizes to total data it'd almost be an accident if you found what you looked for. Increasing your own node's connections helped massively, which it shouldn't. I was studying the effect of each node not only picking a place in the hash table, but also creating a highly directed network with more slots the closer your hashes. That
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Sources on the internet are always traceable. That's how packets get delivered to and from their ultimate destination. This is how Ethernet and IP works, Yes, you can encrypt shit, add layers of hosts acting as blind message passers, etc. But then you have to trust your nodes.
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They can as well lock my body up when they already imprisoned me.
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Enough EU experts have seen, worked with and know of the NSA/GCHQ efforts with systems like XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], Turbulence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
EU VPN users will be found and their attempts to use the internet for freedom discovered.
The full force of EU member state laws will then be used depending on the content and comments.
The new internet needs to take into consideration all methods
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Those of us in the tech sector need to be seriously talking about building a new layer of internet on top of the old one
Ah, yes, technical solutions to sociopolitical problems. Those always work really well.
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Re:New internet (Score:5, Funny)
SO, what about the other 0.98% who are neither the wealthy nor the people? That's what I want to know!
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SO, what about the other 0.98% who are neither the wealthy nor the people? That's what I want to know!
I think that's me.
Re: New internet (Score:2)
Please, tell us more about how Google, Facebook, Amazon, and the other big corporations are part of the right-wing fascist conspiracy.
Pre-Code Internet (Score:4, Interesting)
That's what they will call a brief period of 15 years.
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When emerging search engines just searched the www and presented results based on the user's search terms.
The EU now wants political controls, laws and controls.
A new digital Berlin wall to keep a EU bureaucracy in control of users, comments and news.
Smart people will work hard to tunnel around all such EU censorship.
Freedom of speech and freedom after speech will be saved from the EU laws.
EU (Score:2, Insightful)
The EU apologists are downplaying this by pointing out that the current EU president (Estonia) is merely agenda setting and not a powerful executive. People that understand the malice of big government recognize this for what it is; the camel's nose. It will survive the transition to the next unelected EU president, and the one after and so on, until its on the docket in Brussel's various commissions and parliament.
Re:EU (Score:5, Informative)
Since the presidency of the EU is not "big government", it's literally just a rotating position that gives countries an opportunity to propose an agenda. Estonia has pissed it's opportunity away by proposing something that seems to violate the human rights of EU citizens (the right to privacy in particular) and which has no hope of ever being adopted or even influencing the legislation.
Before you complain about the EU, note that it has some of the strongest privacy protections in the world. They have been used to stop government spying, they have been used to force massive multinational companies like Google to respect individual privacy. And those are actual, written and enforced law, not some random proposal that has zero chance of ever being enacted.
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Since the presidency of the EU is not "big government", it's literally just a rotating position that gives countries an opportunity to propose an agenda. Estonia has pissed it's opportunity away by proposing something that seems to violate the human rights of EU citizens (the right to privacy in particular) and which has no hope of ever being adopted or even influencing the legislation.
Before you complain about the EU, note that it has some of the strongest privacy protections in the world. They have been used to stop government spying, they have been used to force massive multinational companies like Google to respect individual privacy. And those are actual, written and enforced law, not some random proposal that has zero chance of ever being enacted.
This.
In a free, democratic parliament you can propose any law you like, no matter how stupid. Proposing a law does not guarantee it'll pass.
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If you're ever in the market for a bridge, I have a great one to sell you!
obfs2, obfs3, scramblesuit, or fte?
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You mean like the freedom to advocate for boycotting Apartheid Israel without being sent to jail for the bullshit charge of antisemitism - or just the "freedom" to be complete racist assholes to Muslims a la Charlie Hebdo?
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You can't be racist to Muslims. You can however highlight the lack of logic, rationality, common sense or morality to their beliefs, you can tell them they're ignorant savage cunts and you can mock them.
In the UK you can't however incite hatred against them, so please, don't hate the deluded fuckwits, mock them and pity them instead.
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Of course you can. Ask any American Exceptionalist to describe the sort of Muslims he's talking about, and you're going to have a list that looks like this:
1) Arab
2) Arab
3) Someone from one of the 'stans (who looks pretty much just like an Arab)
4) Black African
Sure you can - because the right to be a complet
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Re:EU (Score:5, Insightful)
And the wingnut alarmists think that the next president will bring it in. It still has to go through the Commission, the council and then parliament. Which it won't. Several groups already have this in their crosshairs and are making noise about it. Not to mention ECHR - who literally yesterday gave a ruling that your employer has to notify you of monitoring of your work email - would torpedo it in an instant.
Re: EU (Score:3)
https://youtu.be/ptfmAY6M6aA [youtu.be]
Nuff said
Re: EU (Score:2)
Warning: Eurocrats are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm. [ca.gov]
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The destruction of the EU is a CIA dream. The EU are the only global political force that actually have any alternative against the American system of Corporate fucking of the population. Enjoy your slavery to corporations who are free to fuck your environment you fool.
the Nazis had newspaper censorship and now EU (Score:2)
the Nazis had newspaper censorship and now EU wants that for the net?? what is next???
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You assume that because the NSA reads everything you ever look at or post that you are any more free. You are a cretin.
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I'm in Europe, I'm pretty certain the NSA get at least as much information about my activities as they do for people in the US.
What the fuck does that have to do with the EU seeking to extend the mechanisms it uses to control its member countries' citizens?
My cat just fell asleep in my arms and started quivering in her dreams. She cares more about EU citizen freedom than the autocrats running the EU and she's never even spoken to me about it.
Fascism spreads (Score:5, Insightful)
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Unfortunately, there is a monitoring net set up during the Obama administration (as demonstrated by Snowden) that makes it relative easy to implement in the US. Also, there are clear signs that Google (and Yahoo) is already parti
Ah, Estonia - the country of SS (Score:2, Informative)
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Not the only, Latvia is the same.
Re:Ah, Estonia - the country of SS (Score:5, Informative)
Bullshit. These marches honour WaffenSS veterans explicitly. Also those who happily participated in the Holocaust.
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the holocaust is fake
No, it is not. It is very well documented, evidenced and people still alive experienced it first hand.
You are either an idiot or a cunt, although I wouldn't rule out both.
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No conscripts in the SS, fatty.
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Estonia is the only remaining country in Europe where SS (yes, _that_ SS) veterans march on main streets.
Sorry I must have missed the part where the winning country gets to decide the losing one imprisons all of their military without trial.
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So yes, simply marching as a part of the SS is enough ground for universal condemnation. There have been no "good Nazis", since the war ended.
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However, once the war ended the ONLY honorable way was to disavow Nazis. Marching in SS uniform is a clear opposite of that.
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Yappy little dog (Score:2)
With a population of 1.3 million, it is one of the least-populous member states of the European Union, Eurozone, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), OECD and Schengen Area.
Why should the rest of the EU even listen to them? 'President of the EU' or not? Also, good luck censoring the rest of the non-EU world.
Politicians, when will they learn?
The Internet's true value is still fragile (Score:2)
We could have 1TBs of fiber up to everyone's home and 10GB speeds on phones someday. None of that bandwidth will matter, however, if the only true value of the Internet - the uncensored, uninhibited flow of ALL 0s and 1s - is lost. "We need to be able to regulate what goes across our pipes because of X," in any form for any reason, is ultimately bad for the health of the internet.
Yeah, we can wrap it up in "national security", "copyright holders protections", "good business sense", etc., but it's all still
Illegality (Score:2)
the Presidency has worked hard in order to make the proposal for the new copyright Directive even more harmful than the Commission's original proposal, and pushing it further into the realms of illegality
"Illegality" is the wrong word, as these people are writing what will become the law. "Illegitimacy" seems a better word to describe laws decided on behalf of the People but against its will.
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It seems like a direct violation of several articles in the EU charter. So I think that "illegality" is not too strong a word.
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Re:Brexit is the right decision. (Score:5, Insightful)
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The British population and the British government aren't the same thing exactly.
If anything, the only thing they agree on is the brexit.
Re:Brexit is the right decision. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. England invaded lots of places. So did Spain and Russia (as it expanded east) and China (as it expanded west) and the Zulus (as they expanded south) and the Chaldeans and the Egyptians and the Greeks and the Persians and the
Ruining it and causing migration - here's where you're wrong. English colonialism is not the reason for Pakistani immigration.
You might as well blame Karl Marx for Zimbabwe's collapse. It would be more relevant than the 80 years of British rule.
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The point seems to rest on a heap of false equivalencies, as only two of of the countries on your list aspired to globe-spanning empires.
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They didn't have matching technology - but if your objection is aspiration of world conquest, the original point falls apart.
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The problems in the Middle East are largely because of British, French, and US activities, starting after WWI and the breakup of the Ottoman Empire into arbitrary national mandates. The US didn't really start disruptive activity until the 1950s.
Re:Brexit is the right decision. (Score:4, Insightful)
What about the UK invading almost every country on the planet and ruining it beyond repairs being the cause of all these immigrants in the first place? Never crossed your mind did it?
Let me get this straight, the UK invaded the majority of the globe and is single highhandedly responsible for ruining the countries and by extension for all the migrants. Wow, either they have far more capability than I've ever credited them with or you really don't take responsibility for anything. I view immigration as a case of if your country sucks fix it. If you can't fix it then don't take your messed up ways with you and assimilate into wherever you go. Too bad immigration seems to be a case of "my country sucks so I'll take my messed up ways with me wherever I go and ruin those places too". As I've said many times, you can have nice things or mass immigration but you can't have both.
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I view immigration as a case of if your country sucks fix it. If you can't fix it then don't take your messed up ways with you and assimilate into wherever you go.
Sounds to me like you've got nobody but yourself to care about, they're the only ones who think it's just to pick up a gun and start shooting back. The vast majority of civilians are way too busy trying to protect their family and those closest to them. Particularly when it's so unclear who's the good guys and the bad guys and the front lines are so unclear, it's one thing to go to war and leave your family behind in relative safety. It's quite different when they're in the war zone or even occupied territo
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...And I don't mean it just as a NIMBY defense, save children <10yo and families particularly mothers. They're not the ones causing trouble.
Unless you consider the costs imposed by education, healthcare, and in the case of US anchor babies. Other than that no trouble at all.
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Much of the wealthy west's problem with immigration has nothing to do with why the immigrants are fleeing their home country. Most people aren't immigrating because of their mess or religion or they way their country acts. They are immigrating because they are sick of dodging bombs, being ruled by dictators who would have them beheaded for any of the proposed "fixing" you suggest they do.
Re:Brexit is the right decision. (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's a revolutionary idea: perhaps moral blame is not heritable? Maybe, just maybe, the grandson is not to blame for the sins of the grandfather.
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He is to blame if he still profits from them.
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It's the same as communism:
We are all equal, it's just that some are more equal than others.
Re:Brexit is the right decision. (Score:5, Insightful)
What about the UK invading almost every country on the planet and ruining it beyond repairs being the cause of all these immigrants in the first place?
What BS.
Britain colonised some places and these ended up being some of the best places to live (eg North America, Australia, NZ). Other places they did not colonise (in the sense of settling large numbers of people there) but administered (eg India, African nations, parts of the Middle East); some of these latter are hell-holes today. But they were hell-holes before - that is why Britain stepped in and administrated them. Britain would start with trading posts, but when trade stopped because of warring between different tribes inland, the British would go in and bang heads together to stop it. This led to taking over high-level internal policing and administration. In these cases the local native rulers were usually allowed to retain their positions under British protection. This was a different approach from some other European colonial powers (notably France) which tried to stamp out the local cultures.
Eg gradually most (not all) of India became administrated in that way, including the building of infrastructure such as railways, ports, and government buildings [galenfrysinger.com] often superior to those back home. While many British administrators and engineers and their families lived for long periods in India, they were not settlers like in North America and would always be talking of the day they would go back home. In fact settling was only done where the natives were clearly primitive (usually stone age in culture) and the climate was temperate.
It was Britain withdrawing from some of these countries that was a disaster for them. India was a blood-bath in the late 1940's (but recovered eventually), and some of the old African colonies still are. The reason the UK is sought by immigrants is that Britain had given these ex-colonies a taste of how life could be better than in a shit hole, and of course the English language which remained the official one in many of these ex-colonies.
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Seriously? There are people who stille believe in the white man's burden? In the twenty first century, no less? We Germans have a name for this kind of people - die Ewiggestrigen. That means people who are forever stuck in the past.
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Snaggle toothed? pasty-assed? fucking darkies?
You appear to be a racist cunt.
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I believe you'll find the fucking Irish were the problem there. If they'd done the sensible thing and rejected the idiocy of Catholic beliefs they may have become civilised centuries sooner.
Shit, they're still batshit fucking lunatic due to their archaic superstitious stupidity.
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There was the Church of England, and there were the Catholics. There were plenty of civilized Catholic countries. That wasn't the problem, unless you're saying they should have given up their culture to the invaders.
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England went secular and built an empire. Ireland stayed true to its religious stupidity and continues to be a fucked up place.
Draw your own conclusions.
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And, funnily enough, before they received their slot, Estonia were lauding their seemingly progressive digital attitudes.
President Kersti Kaljulaid:
Estonia's six-month turn at the rotating presidency will focus on digital innovation, particularly electronic public services, which the Baltic nation has made a hallmark of its own government. Estonia likes to boast that the only things a citizen cannot do online are get married, get divorced, or sell their home.
Re: Brexit is the right decision. (Score:2)
Now they will need to add "speak their mind" to that list.
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Amusingly since the end of the cold war most western governments have implemented the tactics of the soviet union because no one can point out that the enemy used to do that.
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As for the technical (in)capacity of the Eurocrats
The Council of Ministers are not Eurocrats. The Council of Ministers is literally a collection of ministers from the national governments of the countries in the EU. Depending on the topic at hand, different ministers meet under this umbrella name.
In fact, the Council of Ministers is the one branch of the EU that is supposed to prevent the EU from being too Euro-centric and to forget about national interests. In practice, of course, national governments use it to introduce positions that are unpopular at ho
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Wait, are you saying the USSR is also responsible for sinking the RMS Titanic?
Re: Sooner it goes, the better (Score:2)
Please get your chronology right! The USSR was formed 10 years after the Titanic sank. The ship's sinking was actually a Bolshevik plot.
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But Avarist said the USSR was responsible for the tip of the iceberg!
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As a vague confederation of states they are the most opaque. They must choose so that I can properly align my outrage meters to their actions!
Could you measure their good/bad as compared to Obama drinking Coke or Pepsi as a moral issue? I need help. :-(
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Brexit isn't sounding so bad now, is it....?
Yeah 100% of deaf people agree.
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The media seem to be deluded into thinking that getting rid of Trump would magically make the massive percentage of populists go away,
populists who are not on a decline but rather on a rise, ergo populism made its stamp. The media think they operage like some deity, with a swipe of their hands and people will cease to exist magically and divinely.
In the past 30 years, i have never seen the field of journalism decline to such a state that it is in itself a parody of Trump now, in opinion pieces, in trying to
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The Trump base is very significant, but hardly a majority, and it's getting smaller demographically. It's in something of a panic now that the world is changing in ways it doesn't like. I sympathize with some (not nearly all) of their concerns, but they're trying to turn the calendar back and that simply isn't going to work.
The media seems to be largely what it was in the 1960s and 1970s, except that there's less money in it and hence fewer big stories and exposes. It's not in a major decline. It alw
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Because in the past, wars were fought over resources ands "lebensraum"; farmland, living space, resources. At the national level, these wars could be avoided if countries cooperated and agreed to share resources (fishery stocks, mineral resources, farmland, river waterflow). So the EU seemed a good idea for 50 years after World War II.
We're still having those fights but now but on a smaller scale; affordable housing, green spaces, rights of way along new property developments.
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/ [wired.com]
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Racists upset they're being passed over by the world?
The world? I don't think if you've noticed, but the only part of the world that gives a single toss about racism is a western white minority with negative birth rates. The rest of the world enjoys being openly racist against neighbors as well as Westerners (except being racist against white westerners is politically sanctioned as a correct and just move). The Arabs and generally all Semite people still refer to blacks with their words for the term "slave"
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o/~ Here comes a candle to light you to bed. Here comes a chopper to chop off your head. o/~
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Nope. EU expected that everyone attempting to cross the border will try to do so at a border crossing - you know, like in a civilized world. And the numbers attempting to cross the border somewhere else would be in range of hundreds or thousands per year, not millions. There is an option how to stop people crossing the border in the fields or in the woods. Look up Iron Curtain to see what it would look like. Fences, barbed wires, minefields, dogs, patrols with automatic guns
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The EU eroded border security and caused a mass influx of criminal migrants and terrorists.
Personally I blame them for the rise of racist fuckwits on the internet.
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" is unfixable and unwilling to admit it could do with improvement. It must go in its entirety " = BOLLOCKS, because you have no replacement to offer and you need the functionality the EU provides, if you don't like everything that's reasonable. Running away suddenly in the middle of the night and joining the circus-economy, that's not going to crush the EU, that's going to crush the UK.
Face facts, UK cannot survive as an island apart. You are headed for decline if you wish to relive the empire of the past.
There's a reason the pound is still a thing and they never adopted the Euro. The EU is France, Germany, and the UK, plus a bunch of troublesome leeches. If the UK actually follows through and leaves, France and Germany are going to be playing chicken to see who stays in the longest. The instant one of them leaves, the EU is dead, and Europe will go back to doing what it does best - warring with itself. The scaremongering about the UK economy isn't about the UK, it's FUD meant to keep France and Germany
Re:Sooner it goes, the better (Score:4, Insightful)
Eh, no. [wikipedia.org] And no again [inews.co.uk]
Germany, France and the UK (in that order) are the 3 largest economies in the Union by far, but combined their GDP currently makes up around 51,2 % of that of the whole union. The UK by itself represents around 14,4 % of the total economy, France is 16 % and Germany is 20 %.
The remaining 24 countries are miniscule in size compared to these 3, but in total are roughly as big as these three. After the UK leaves, the shares will change so that Germany will grow to be around 24 % of the whole economy, while France's share goes up to around 19. This means that the other remaining EU countries together actually dwarf Germany and France in size.
Secondly, there are currently 10 member states that pay into the union more than they take out of it. In addition to Germany, France and the UK these include the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria, Italy and Ireland (granted Ireland and Italy pretty much break even so their contribution is not major). Spain (5th largest economy in the union after Italy) also pretty much breaks even although they still currently receive slightly more than they pay in.
What? The EU, for all its numerous flaws is still a succesful economic zone with a total GDP second only to the US once the UK leaves, so thinking that France or Germany would want to leave/shatter the union when it has benefited them the most as the biggest economies in the zone, or that 1 of them leaving would automatically trigger the collapse of the whole union and/or massive war is misguided. Especially now with the situation of Russia being what it is, there are very few leaders on a national level that would even want to leave, because reverting back to a bunch of solitary nation states is both economically damaging and is also essentially equal to surrending massive amounts of influence and control over to Russia, US and China, which from a purely game theory point of view of (geo)politics is a dumb as fuck move (for both the smaller states who will then be at the mercy of these larger players, as well as the big economies like France and Germany whose global influence/power would be greatly diminished if the Union stopped existing). This is something that both France and Germany understand well.
Think of it is this way: after the UK goes, the choice faced by Germany and France will be the following: they can either continue as the 2 major rulers of the 2nd largest economy in the world 7 times the size of Russia, or they can choose to return to a situation in which they control only their own economies that are roughly equal to that of Russia and are massive dwarfed by the US and China thereby essentially sidelining themselves from the big league of the world economies,
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You assume either Germany or France is DUMB ENOUGH to think they'd gain something from leaving a 40~ year trade settlement overnight with NOTHING TO REPLACE IT WITH? The EU is better without you, frankly. You want to rule instead of be part of a federation, old habits die hard I guess. We'll see it sooner than later, most Britons realize they made a huge mistake with Brexit even though the pain has scarcely been felt yet. There is due course ahead.
Now, continue bragging about isolationism as an economic boon, lol.
They'd gain sovereignty and security. Who says they wouldn't have anything to replace it with? They'd simply renegotiate trade at better (for them) terms. The rest of the EU is entirely dependent upon the big three, and they know it.
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The EU needs the UK less than the UK needs the EU, and there will be political pressure to make the new trade agreements less favorable.
In the meantime,the UK has been getting a lot of US business because it's an English-speaking country with a large economy that's in the EU. The EU is a far larger market than the UK, so it's more important for businesses to have offices somewhere in the EU than the UK.
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48% of us aren't realising we made a huge mistake. We've known it all along.
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Speak for yourself. I'd rather be ruled by people who actually care about me and my rights. They could be Martians for all it matters.
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ROFLMA. St Theresa went out there a few months ago and they told her to jolly well do the fucking off. There is so much protectionism in the Indian economy it's beyond a joke.
If anything happens at all it'll be tiny minor concessions for the Ruperts in the banks in return for something like H1B on steroids.
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The internet will become what radio has become. The REALLY old farts here might remember the small, hobby-ish radio stations. Where they had witty DJs, playing local music, often even having local singers and bands who could perform live on the air, have a chat... remember? No? You'd have to be around 80 probably to do so.
Today, what's left of radio stations is a corporate nightmare. A handful of stations, all playing basically the same rubbish nobody really wants to hear, all day, every day, bloodless, lif
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I rarely internet anymore, mostly killing time whenever I'm on break (20 year old slashdot habit). Very little is new or interesting anymore. On the bright side, toys for nerds are insanely inexpensive from China (I mean electronics and basic components, not premade widgets.It's more fun to build your own).
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New funding, new powers. New computer systems. New networks to build. More contractors, gov and mil staff. Overtime and top gov wages.
The new staffing and equipment sales and support staff in every part of the EU.
Having to create an EU wide system to find and then enter into all EU VPN use.
To then find each VPN user in the EU and see what they are saying and doing while using a VPN.
To keep all EU ip and isp data for years. To fully register every ISP account and