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Chief CETA Negotiator Says Treaty "Virtually Complete" (freezenet.ca) 99

Dangerous_Minds writes: Steve Verheul, chief negotiator of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA), is saying that the agreement is "virtually complete." He also says that translated versions are to be completed by May and that the agreement is likely to be implemented in 2017. CETA contains provisions that would compel countries to implement Internet censorship through site blocking, anti-circumvention laws as seen in the US, and compel border security to seize digital storage devices (i.e. cell phones) at the border for the purpose of looking for copyright infringement.
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Chief CETA Negotiator Says Treaty "Virtually Complete"

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    Are we supposed to prevent this from going through? "calling our representatives" certainly does not seem to help.

    This is no rethorical complaint: *HOW* do we fight this? What can be done, specifically, to make those happily pushing this through *STOP*?

    Legal methods and comments about their ethics and morality (or complete perversions thereof) certainly don't work... So what about stooping to their level? What can we do to make this disappear decisively?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Are we supposed to prevent this from going through? "calling our representatives" certainly does not seem to help.

      This is no rethorical complaint: *HOW* do we fight this? What can be done, specifically, to make those happily pushing this through *STOP*?

      Legal methods and comments about their ethics and morality (or complete perversions thereof) certainly don't work... So what about stooping to their level? What can we do to make this disappear decisively?

      Vote Sanders. He's not perfect, but he's the closest option in the US to a candidate who favors the people over the special interests.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        You realize that CETA is a treaty between Canada and the EU, right? Bernie Sanders has absolutely nothing to do with this because it doesn't involve the United States. Sanders certainly could do something about the TPP, but CETA is something he has no control over.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          If you're in the US, vote Sanders, because it applies to other treaties and because the US strongly supports pro-copyright treaties because of its entertainment industry.

          The principle is the same if you're elsewhere, including in a country directly affected. Find the candidates (or better yet, advocacy groups) who most actively support the cause you're interested in. There's a reason people give to the EFF.

          • Re: And how exactly (Score:5, Interesting)

            by easyTree ( 1042254 ) on Thursday February 18, 2016 @03:51AM (#51533073)

            The problem isn't who is in office; the problem is a system where (a few) individuals are able to exert their will over the rest of the planet.

            I believe we've dispensed with the myths that they:
              * know what's best
              * have our best interests at heart / are working for the betterment of humanity
              * govern on behalf of the people
              * govern with the consent of the people

            What remains? That they have forced their way into power?

          • by KGIII ( 973947 )

            It's well known where I stand. I type a lot. I've said this before. I'll say it again.

            Vote Sanders, folks. He's the only chance you've got for meaningful change. If he doesn't run as a Democrat, you help him run as an Independent. I'll do what I can but nobody listens to me. I'm used to it. Hell, I should try reverse psychology.

            Seriously, I'm a Libertarian. If I'm telling you to vote Sanders then, well... That says something about every single other candidate. I'm not even going to write a *big* novella. If

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Sanders is a US candidate, and there was just recently an election in Canada. Your advice... isn't.

        Get them strip-searched and swatted a few times a month at least; after all, they "have nothing to hide" as they're so adamant in informing us, and if we don't know the contents of their urethra and smartphone's intestines on a regular basis, then the terrorists have won.

        Force-feed them their own medicine until they choke.

      • by prefec2 ( 875483 )

        CETA is the blueprint for TTIP. However, CETA is only between the EU and Canada. Voting Sanders might help for TTIP (so please do if you are a US citizen). However, in the EU and I assume in Canada, there are many protest initiatives. Ask them and post the answer here. As a European please send money to protest organizations so they can make more noise, support these groups, call and or write to your Member of the EU Parliaments, do the same with your local parliament, write to the EU Commission (the EU pro

    • Re:And how exactly (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Khyber ( 864651 ) <techkitsune@gmail.com> on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:01AM (#51533105) Homepage Journal

      "What can we do to make this disappear decisively?"

      Cripple the internet to the point that global economy can no longer happen, and force a global economic collapse.

      In other words, all you network engineers and people running the backbones need to step up and protest.

      • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

        Cripple the internet to the point that global economy can no longer happen, and force a global economic collapse.

        In other words, all you network engineers and people running the backbones need to step up and protest.

        Tracer Tong: Hello JC, could you overload the experimental anti-matter reactors?

      • In other words, all you network engineers and people running the backbones need to step up and protest.

        I thought you said backhoes...

    • Are we supposed to prevent this from going through? "calling our representatives" certainly does not seem to help.

      That's right. You have to vote them out. If it doesn't happen, I guess you're just going to have to live with it and adapt. C'est la vie...

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Legal methods and comments about their ethics and morality (or complete perversions thereof) certainly don't work...

      There you almost answered it yourself - illegal methods.

      Bad laws can be broken, "site blocking" is usually possible to get around.

      As for searching phones/laptops:
      1. Whenever politicians (or any supporters of this - like Hollywood people) travel, call in anonymous tips that they're bringing illegal stuff on their phones. In other words, let them get stopped and feel the pressure of their own stupid laws. You may occationally overdo it and claim they have a bomb in their laptop - they always act on that sort

      • by KGIII ( 973947 )

        I have told you guys how to do it. You don't even need to shed a drop of blood. You just need some solidarity. Can you get 1,000,0000 people? Find a day when Congress is in session and the President will be in town. Everybody, work your GPS backwards. Everybody set it to arrive at 1600 PA Ave, DC at 1500 (EST -5 GMT) on Friday afternoon. Everyone try to get as close to it as you possibly can - and all at the same time - 1,000,000 cars. When you can not get any closer (which might be as far as 20 miles away

    • Realize the ending of 1984 was prophetic. That the future will not be better than the past and that technology has given despots and ideologies the perfect tools to keep their people in control. That the future is a boot stomping on a human face forever. That you, as a peon, have three choices. Agree, be silent, or have your face stomped on.

      • Orwell wrote Animal Farm, about how a totalitarian state gets established. Then 1984, about what one looks like when it is. He intended to write a third book about how one gets demolished but died before he was able to.

      • This. But that's okay "Privacy experts are concerned about this."
    • by jrumney ( 197329 )

      And how exactly are we supposed to prevent this from going through?

      I'm sure you will have all the same opportunities to stop this before it goes through that your Pacific neighbours had with the TPP.

      "calling our representatives" certainly does not seem to help.

      Sure it does... If you can afford to buy yourself some representatives.

  • remember Benito (Score:4, Insightful)

    by harvey the nerd ( 582806 ) on Thursday February 18, 2016 @03:19AM (#51532977)
    These fascists need the Benito treatment.
    • Re:remember Benito (Score:5, Informative)

      by schnell ( 163007 ) <me@scCURIEhnell.net minus physicist> on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:28AM (#51533161) Homepage

      These fascists need the Benito treatment.

      Umm, before we advocate the summary execution and public hanging [wikipedia.org] of those involved, I might like to get a wee bit more information about what we're discussing. Stuff that, you know, the summary might have actually included such as:

      • Which countries are potentially party to this?
      • How do the provisions differ from currently accepted law in those countries?
      • Who has enforcement rights over violations?

      It's also worth noting that the story has only one link, to a blog which is politically opposed to the treaty. A cursory Google search would point you to a much [wikipedia.org] wider [techdirt.com] range [euractiv.com] of viewpoints on the agreement. Some are pro-treaty, some against, but they all provide much better context than the linked article. I don't particularly care one way or another, but any story with only one viewpoint expressed is usually a sign of either a lazy editor or an agenda.

      I hate to keep dredging up the "Slashdot flame bait post because it has no actual 'editors'" trope, but damn. I imagine that if I submitted a story that said "Apple CEO advocates eating puppies" and linked to a blog somewhere that suggested it, the story would be published immediately and without actual review or "editing." Which is, you know, what an "editor" is supposed to do.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        "I don't particularly care one way or another, but any story with only one viewpoint expressed is usually a sign of either a lazy editor or an agenda."

        Except when it's not, the idea that all viewpoints are valid and the truth is found in between "the extremes" is false.

        Copyright keeps extending forevermore thanks to clueless people like the above poster [wikipedia.org]

      • Umm, before we advocate the summary execution and public hanging [wikipedia.org] of those involved, I might like to get a wee bit more information about what we're discussing. Stuff that, you know, the summary might have actually included such as:

        • Which countries are potentially party to this?
        • How do the provisions differ from currently accepted law in those countries?
        • Who has enforcement rights over violations?

        You're completely missing the points:
        a) This is a slippery slope, they haven't finished yet (they're probably already discussing the next one...)
        b) None of what they're doing is based on evidence (or even common sense). It's based on lobbying and bribes from people who professionally rip musicians off and want to keep it that way.
        c) None of it will have the slightest effect on copyright infringement. All it does is take away civil liberties and allow people to shut down _any_ web site they don't like with n

  • by brit74 ( 831798 )
    > CETA contains provisions that would compel countries to implement Internet censorship through site blocking, anti-circumvention laws as seen in the US, and compel border security to seize digital storage devices (i.e. cell phones) at the border for the purpose of looking for copyright infringement.

    I believe that trade agreements would include clauses about site blocking. I do not believe that they include clauses compelling border security guards to check for copyright infringement. There's no way
  • by mentil ( 1748130 ) on Thursday February 18, 2016 @03:57AM (#51533097)

    compel border security to seize digital storage devices (i.e. cell phones) at the border for the purpose of looking for copyright infringement

    How exactly is that going to work? Everyone with a laptop holds up the line for 30 minutes while their hard drive gets imaged? What if it's encrypted? What do they do about devices with dead batteries? The poorly-trained Little Hitlers in customs aren't going to know how to operate the variety of digital devices they'll encounter.

    Ok let's say they just seize everything and send it off to a central location for processing, and then ship it to wherever the traveler is staying when they're done. How are they going to judge if a file is infringing copyright, and not a fair-use format-shift? Hash video files and compare to known scene releases? Good luck doing anything similar for music; there are legit ways of ripping CDs that produce identical files every time, the same encoding software will give these perfect rips an identical hash for everyone who goes through the process; some music stores use unwatermarked files, everyone gets the same copy. This is ignoring the issue of locked phones.

    If by 'seizing digital storage devices' they mean 'seizing spindles of burned discs coming from China with movie titles Sharpied on them' then I could see this making sense.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Well if it's anything like the electronics they steal at airports...
      They take it.
      And in a year or two when their kids have worn them out or broken them...
      You get it back.
      Rarely in one piece.

      But don't worry! They've long since replaced it with the newest model. It was recently christmas after all!

    • Everyone with a laptop holds up the line for 30 minutes while their hard drive gets imaged? What if it's encrypted? What do they do about devices with dead batteries?

      [...]

      Ok let's say they just seize everything and send it off to a central location for processing, and then ship it to wherever the traveler is staying when they're done.

      You're being strangely optimistic. I very much doubt that the laptops/phones will be shipped back to their owners. The owners will be required to get their devices back in person several weeks later (so that they can easily be questioned, fined, or arrested, because of the content found on their devices).

      This is not to say that a significant portion of those devices won't get disappeared/damaged/withheld indefinitely in the process. And this is not to say that this process will apply to everyone, if you're

      • It will be interesting to hear the first case of a journalist or dissident whose stirred up too much trouble, or who is protecting a confidential source who becomes subject to one of these copyright searches. Not surprising in the least, but interesting.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    ... Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement ...

    A better description is "Countries enforcing US protectionism, again"

  • If you believe that such big-corporation friendly, citizen hostile, laws and agreements are the result of monied interests perverting our governments, then support whatever anti-corruption movements are active in your nation. In the USA http://represent.us/ [represent.us] is trying with some success to get big money out of local elections around the USA. Ultimately they hope to get enough elected officials around the country to have an impact at the national level, and to get rid of our system of legalized bribery. We a
  • CETA contains provisions that would compel countries to implement Internet censorship through site blocking

    So while that little nugget main be treaty binding to other nations, it's NOT applicable to the US as the 1st Amendment will always trump what's in a treaty when the two are in direct conflict of each other. Treaties do trump local and state laws however. But that is nothing new. Regardless, CETA is a shit of a treaty all around.

  • Think again. Trudeau is as deep in Big Business' pocket as Harper was. CETA is going to pass, and so is TPP. Just need to find the right spin. And don't think the NDP would do any better, after all, they welcomed and supported the copyright term extension on sound recordings.

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