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Crime News

Mass Shooting In San Bernardino Kills At Least 14 (cnn.com) 1134

An anonymous reader writes: Authorities say 14 people were killed and 14 others were injured in a mass shooting in San Bernardino today. Police have mounted an intense manhunt for the gunmen who fired into a conference hall where county employees had gathered at a service center for people with disabilities. CNN reports: "The suspects were armed with long guns, Police Chief Jarrod Burguan told reporters. 'These were people that came prepared. ... They were armed with long guns, not hand guns,' he told reporters. Most of the victims were 'centrally located in one area of the facility,' Burguan said. Police didn't exchange gunfire with the shooters, he added."
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Mass Shooting In San Bernardino Kills At Least 14

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  • more guns needed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Chalex ( 71702 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:06PM (#51044895) Homepage

    I guess we need to make sure everyone is armed and ready to fire at all times in the whole country. That way we'll have fewer shootings.

    Going to the gym? Wear an ankle holster. Going to Starbucks? Pack your trusty 12-gauge. /sarcasm

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:50PM (#51045325)

      I was born in India. Some of the tightest gun control laws, similar to what the British have. There is no such thing as 'gun culture' in India. Assault weapons are impossible for civilian population to own (for instance, .223, .303, 7.62mm, these calibers are banned for civilian ownership), while cartridges of permitted firearms are difficult to come by, and expensive. Usually, assaults for robbery etc. are carried out using knives and fists and sticks and so on. But India does see at least a few mass casualty gun attacks by terrorists every year. And every few years, there is a 'terror spectacular' that creates headlines the world over. The left and the right will both trot out their tired ideas without taking any reality into account.

      Terrorism is a de facto accepted mode of warfare now. The West/Nato supports irregular warfare in Russia, Syria etc. based on whether that particular regime is strategically liked or not. Without taking into consideration the ideas of the people they are supporting.. The idea of a nation state itself is a fairly modern idea, compared to what the likes of ISIS and AlQaeda want. Yet, we replace modern entities with positively antediluvian entities. Even a communist state, or a military dictatorship like in NK is preferable to ISIS/AlQaeda. At least, you can talk to NK.. If someone in ISIS/Talbn/AlQ tries to reach a compromise with us, his followers will cut his head off.

      There are hundreds of thousands of foreign fighters in these places now.. whose only marketable skill is War. I am afraid, mass casualty gun attacks are here to stay and we will see some for years, punctuated by people going postal or attacks by people who are just plain nutjobs.

    • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:51PM (#51045335) Journal

      I guess we need to make sure everyone is armed and ready to fire at all times in the whole country. That way we'll have fewer shootings.

      Going to the gym? Wear an ankle holster. Going to Starbucks? Pack your trusty 12-gauge.

      Naw. About one in ten carrying concealed would do it.

      Line from a friend who was a union official: "We're a poor union. We only have one pistol. But you never know who has it checked out."

      • Re:more guns needed (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Tom ( 822 ) on Thursday December 03, 2015 @06:55AM (#51048065) Homepage Journal

        Naw. About one in ten carrying concealed would do it.

        Reality disagrees with you.

        The USA is one of the few civilized countries where you can (legally) carry a concealed gun in some places.
        It is also the place with the by far most mass shootings in the civilized world. By far, as in several times more than everybody else.

        How many of those shootings were stopped/ended by someone with a concealed gun?
        How many of them were not, despite people having concealed guns?
        How many of them were made possible in the first place because the shooters could acquire guns that in other countries they would not have gotten?

        If X is the number of shootings prevented by gun-carrying citizens and Y is the number of shootings that would not have happened if it weren't so damn easy to get a gun, then X needs to be higher than Y to use it as a pro-gun argument.

        I don't see that assumption being true.

    • You joke, but if you parse it out mentally and actually play that scenario out - everyone open carrying would dramatically reduce the chance of mass gun violence much in the same way that nuclear weapons have reduced the chance of nuclear war.

      What terrorist would want to shoot up an arena where everyone is armed? It sounds crazy and invokes images of Borderlands 1 & 2, but hell... that's got to be more effective than penning laws that only affect the people who willingly follow them.

      Or it could be

  • by Mitreya ( 579078 ) <mitreya@gmail.CHEETAHcom minus cat> on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:10PM (#51044937)
    The debate over such shootings rages every time (ban guns, stop banning guns, make more gun-free zones, have fewer gun-free zones, teach everyone to shoot and give out free guns, have better mental health care, etc, Did I miss anything?).

    But I am yet to see anyone change their pre-existing opinion as a result of these discussions.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ColdWetDog ( 752185 )

      Whatever your opinions on gun control are, we (the US) have managed to box ourselves into an unpleasant corner. There are way too many guns out there to have any effective method of restriction work. And way too many gun nuts.

      It really is an ugly situation. Nobody is going to win here.

      Except the loonies and terrorists.

      • by Carewolf ( 581105 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:22PM (#51045057) Homepage

        Whatever your opinions on gun control are, we (the US) have managed to box ourselves into an unpleasant corner. There are way too many guns out there to have any effective method of restriction work. And way too many gun nuts.

        It really is an ugly situation. Nobody is going to win here.

        Except the loonies and terrorists.

        Australia used to have the same problem, but a conservative government managed to introduce gun restricts at the cost of the next election, and gun violence and accidents dropped sharply.

        • by amRadioHed ( 463061 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:30PM (#51045119)

          Unfortunately our Republican's wouldn't do anything that would jeopardise an election.

        • by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @09:31PM (#51046139) Journal

          Statistics on Australian homicide [aic.gov.au] show that the number of all homicides went from 355 in 1997 to 297 in 2012. So about a 16% reduction.

          Statistics on US homicides [fbi.gov] over that same time period (1997 to 2012) show the number dropping from 21,606 to 14,827. About a 31% reduction - about double that of Australia.

          Seems that eliminating firearms in Australia might have actually slowed the drop in the number of homicides (assuming that Australia would have normally followed the reductions in the US), leading to a relative GAIN in the homicide rate as compared to the US over the same period.

          • by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @11:07PM (#51046653)
            Except during that timeframe Australia grew from 18 millions to 24 millions. So that's 35% reduction. Meanwhile US grew only slightly from 274 millions to 319 millions.

            Also, Australia is a poor example - it has never had significant gun-related violence.
          • by Jack Griffin ( 3459907 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @11:51PM (#51046839)
            I as a regular Joe don't care if drug dealers are killing each other. I also don't care as much if some dysfunctional family member kills their immediate relations. Crimes of passion are something I can have some input into.
            What I do care about is some random nutter killing me while I'm minding my own business.
            So I'm not sure if those stats are measured, but I'm betting that random homicides, the type where the victim had no prior relationship with the offender, are a lot higher in the US than anywhere else.
            In Australia, I believe the number of random mass shootings (4 or more victims) since 1997 is zero.
        • Numbers of guns aside (we are talking 300 million plus here) there is the issue of the Constitution. You have to remember that in the US the Constitution is above Federal law. All laws have to conform to it, it overrides, and thus the rights in the Bill of Rights section of it are rather sacred and protected.

          Now if can be changed, but it is quite hard. It's only happened 17 times (the first 10 came in when the Constitution was first signed). First an amendment hast to be introduced. That requires either 2/3

        • by SandmanWAIX ( 674838 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @10:37PM (#51046513)
          It was actually an extremely proud moment watching people voluntarily handing their guns in to their local police station for destruction. No questions were asked by the police about the legitimacy of the gun, they just said thankyou and went about destroying them.

          There is no question that our community is safer as a result of this. We also have the mentality that guns are very out of place in general society and if you actually ever see one it is definitely an uncomfortable feeling that you have. I can't imagine what it must be like to just accept that guns are part of your every day life or how that affects your own insecurities.
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) <mojo@worl[ ]net ['d3.' in gap]> on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:39PM (#51045179) Homepage

        You could mostly fix it with free mental healthcare, but judging by the opposition to Obamacare that probably isn't going to happen.

  • Gun Control (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:15PM (#51044975)

    So, we have no idea who did it or why.

    But The President is already calling for new gun control laws.

    And I'm expecting to hear within the next couple of days that this could have been prevented if we'd not stripped the Feds of the authority to do mass surveillance on the US population...

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      So, we have no idea who did it or why.

      But The President is already calling for new gun control laws.

      And I'm expecting to hear within the next couple of days that this could have been prevented if we'd not stripped the Feds of the authority to do mass surveillance on the US population...

      Don't forget that this shooting happened in a state with some of the strictest gun control laws in the US. So much so that, especially with regards to rifles, many companies sell specially modified "California compliant" versions that often include unremoveable or size-limited magazines and different furniture (namely no pistol grips). Something tells me that lenient gun laws weren't much of a factor when it comes to this particular incident. And as for Obama, well, he comes from a city that also have ve

  • by chill ( 34294 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:33PM (#51045135) Journal

    I went to the local gun range today and was chatting with the owner. His business spiked since the Paris shootings, with weekly concealed carry classes booked solid through February. With this he's going to have his best Christmas sales season in years.

    I'm not sure what scares me more -- random shootings, or the thought of so many yokels with concealed carry permits who've only fired a gun once or twice in their, now life trying to return fire (or thinking they can).

  • by mejustme ( 900516 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:43PM (#51045227)

    So everyone is talking about San Bernardino CA. Here is a twist: Did you know this was the 2nd mass shooting in the U.S. for today?

    Not kidding. Earlier today in Savannah GA was another mass shooting. Another twist: This is not unusual!

    On many days in the U.S., there is more than 1 mass shooting. U.S. mass shootings (meaning 4 or more people shot in an event or related events) are a daily occurrence. Starting today, we'd have to go back to November 10 to find three consecutive days without a mass shooting.

    As a Canadian looking at the news flowing across the border, this boggles my mind.

    Source 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/GunsA... [reddit.com]
    Source 2: http://www.theguardian.com/us-... [theguardian.com]

  • by Trachman ( 3499895 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @08:31PM (#51045623) Journal

    We really need media control.

    I would say, that 1st amendment has limits. If shouting "fire" in the theater will get you in jail, because of the potential psychosis and stampede, the same way mass hysteria channels CNN, NBC, FOX and MSNBC, would have a right to report only statistically representative events. This should not apply to real mainstream news - Facebook, etc, because that is how many of the people get news, and Facebook is, in a way, glorified gossip club. All television does is promotion of a cheap way to get publicity.

    Before one mass shooting is reported on television, there would be a forceful reporting automobile accidents, suicides, drownings, medication overdoses, cardiac arrests, hospital errors. Statistically, death from violent terrorist attack is so statistically rare that in a year there would hardly any re-portable event.

    At the same time, this would be eradication of advertising, and an incentive, for those potential mass shooters/terrorists.

    For they want nothing else, but fame, glory, to be shown and talked about on the news. This needs to be stopped.

    __________
    I am praying for the victims tonight.

Those who do things in a noble spirit of self-sacrifice are to be avoided at all costs. -- N. Alexander.

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