The Promo Bay Blocked By UK ISPs 132
hypnosec writes "The Pirate Bay's artist promotion platform (the Promo Bay), despite being perfectly legal, is being blocked by several UK Internet service providers including BT, and Virgin Media. The Promo Bay was launched this week as a promotion platform for content creators like filmmakers and musicians enabling them to showcase their talent and work to thousands of people across the web. Even though the idea is novel, The Promo Bay has somehow found itself on a block list alongside the Pirate Bay."
Re:If you're affected (Score:5, Insightful)
lol. you're naive. Looks like you never actually read an ISP contract. The only thing guaranteed in it is that you pay the ISP. Everything else is at the discretion of the ISP.
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in the UK, internet is internet. Filtered content is not internet, it's subscription channeling.If you pay for internet YOU GET INTERNET or the provider is in breach of contract. End of story. Ive had this out with Virgin Media, when they capped my broadband (I was on an uncapped tariff). I told them, they give me what I paid for already or I cancel the contract right there and then, and fuck their early termination clause. They pulled the same shit two months later and I shitcanned them.
Re:If you're affected (Score:5, Informative)
lol. you're naive. Looks like you never actually read an ISP contract. The only thing guaranteed in it is that you pay the ISP. Everything else is at the discretion of the ISP.
Only in the US. The UK and rest of the EU have sane consumer protection laws.
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This doesn't mean you can simply call them up and say "I think you're breaching my contract; I'm cancelling effective immediately. Kthxbye." and they'll let you out of it just like that. You can expect to be told in no uncertain terms you're in contract and if you cease payment, you'll be hounded thoroughly. Only way you'll get away from that hounding is likely to be a court appearance.
This isn't necessarily the end of the world - we have a perfectly serviceable small claims system designed specifically for
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The Promo Bay isn't the same as Pirate Bay so they should unblock it
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Creditors simply cannot "hound" you, at least not legally. And you can always say "I dispute these charges, refuse to pay, don't contact me anymore," and the creditor's only recourse after that is to file a suit.
You're right. They can't do it legally, but they certainly do it. I've been hounded by many collection agencies, over the years, for a debit I do not owe, I never owed, and which would have been years beyond the statute of limitations by now if I ever had.
Here's what they do: One collection agency buys the account, perhaps for a penny or two on the dollar, uses overseas callers to try to collect for a year. When I tell them I want them to cease and desist they tell me I need to contact them by mail to tell
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In Oregon you can almost always sever an ongoing contract via a letter from an attorney, at least if you have returned all the equipment they own. That is the trick, you return the equipment unilaterally, refuse not to leave it in their office, and then the lawyer can issue the statement that because you are no longer receiving anything of value from the other party, and don't have anything of theirs on loan, there is not a basis for the existence of a contract.
The only time that won't work is something lik
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To support your point with an anecdote, I ended up paying an ISP for a year for a service they didn't deliver (specifically, a DSL signal to my modem).
I called the helpdesk. Several times. Finally, they did a test. Took a couple of seconds. "The signal is not getting through." Yes, that's what I've been telling you for the past couple of days.
Then they told me they would send a technician. They had already sent one before, but, apparently, that one hadn't done his job. I agreed on a date and a time of day,
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In Belgium I took a slightly different route: I went to a central store of theirs every other day for a while, to complain that the connection didn't work. After a few visits the store employees started recognizing me, and looked positively embarrased every time I showed up.
Result: It only took Belgacom ca 1 month to actually fix a connection problem, which I understand to be quite fast for them.
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Actually you can get out of your contract if they fail to provide a usable service. Recently quite a lot of people were let out of their O2 mobile phone contracts because of a dispute over a buried cable that lead them to have no data service for over a month. O2 could have fought them in court but they would have lost, so rather than take the bad press and waste money they just went with what the end result would inevitably have been.
In the case of an ISP if they ever blocked something you were using you w
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In the US, if a service provider makes a material change to their promised services, you are allowed out of it with no strings until you make another payment. In the case of providers who take automatic payments, I've yet to see one without wording that says something like you have 30 days from the time of the change to terminate services. I do know for certain that all four of the major cellular carriers have such wording (Verizon gives you 60 days after you tell them that you have an issue with the change
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Many US States have sane consumer protection laws, too.
We also have mostly the same Common Law protections as the UK which can cover basic contract issues.
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and which of us can't get to Promo Bay? (Score:2)
"Only in the US. The UK and rest of the EU have sane consumer protection laws."
What was that you were saying again? Something about how I, in the US, can get to Promobay, and you, UK/EU resident, with your supposedly superior consumer protection laws, cannot? Lot of good those supposedly better consumer protection laws are doing you, given that apparently your UK/EU telco is filtering your internet connection, and my US telco isn't.
Among other things, I can tell you're ignorant on the subject of consumer pr
This has been the plan all along. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about control.
If this succeeds, they're unnecessary. They are the gate keepers. An artist needs them. But they don't need artists. They can take any dancer or model who can't sing and turn them into a pop star.
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Yup, you can make them stars, but you can't make them artists.
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Yes, the ability to purchase the one good song on an album and not having to pay $15.99 for the one song you like and the other 9-12 pieces of crap they called music had absolutely no impact on that. Neither did the fact that the economy took a huge downturn for a lot of industries when the .com bubble burst. Then get hit with 9-11, a recession, and the housing crash. That couldn't have a single thing to do with it. Yeah, it was ALL piracy's fault. Damn Napster.
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hum..... (Score:2)
http://thepromobay.co.uk/ [thepromobay.co.uk] http://promobay.org/ - The URL in the OP. Looks like 4 (featured) artists. No torrent for anything. Weird.
Re:hum.....If thats correct.... (Score:2)
It works perfectly fine here on virgin media?
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Works on Orange (EE, now), too, although thepiratebay.org is blocked
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There are two different websites.
http://thepromobay.co.uk/ [thepromobay.co.uk] looks to be a proxy for TPB as others have said and isn't blocked.
http://thepromobay.org/ [thepromobay.org] is blocked
Re:hum..... (Score:5, Informative)
Curses.
The second URL should of course be http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org]
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Try http://www.promobay.org/ [promobay.org]. Seems to work on Virgin for me.
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I get 'Error - Site blocked' and I'm in Sydney.
I can see http://thepromobay.co.uk/ [thepromobay.co.uk] and http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org] in Victoria.
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ThePromoBay.co.uk is fine but PromoBay.org is blocking on Be (O2).
The former (.co.uk) is a proxy - see the small print "Powered by Unblock The Pirate Bay v1" in the footer.
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Unlikely, the IWF aren't responsible for blocking The Pirate Bay either.
Given the different IP addresses for Pirate vs Promo bays, it does look as dodgy as shit. I may invest a few minutes of my time tomorrow to ask them which court order has mandated a block.
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The blocking?
I hope it _is_ a mistake but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a proxy. (Score:1)
Uhh... http://thepromobay.co.uk/?loadurl=/browse/200/0/7 It's essentially a TPB proxy. No surprise here.
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Fancy. We're talking about http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org] - a completely different site.
Conspiracy to Censor (Score:5, Interesting)
What exactly is the rationale in blocking the Promo Bay? It's not and never has been the Pirate Bay. Different servers. Different owners. No complaints of copyright infringement. No cases, lawsuits or petitions to the court.
What is the process that has gone on behind the scenes to block it accross almost all of the UK's ISPs? Where is the public oversight of this process? Who met, talked and how was the decision arrived at?
Where is the scrutiny over decisions to censor the internet in a (supposedly) free and democratic country?
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So why are the hordes of actual pirate bay clones not blocked, and this apparently fair and legal one is?
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Guess it will be eBay next.... sounds the same, must be pirates
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Where is the scrutiny over decisions to censor the internet in a (supposedly) free and democratic country?
With the voters, but they foolishly believe all the propaganda that they have no choice and have delegated their authority to the wrong people.
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http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org]
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Confusingly, there seem to be two sites out there called "The Promo Bay". This one works: http://thepromobay.co.uk/ [thepromobay.co.uk] [thepromobay.co.uk]
This one, for me, is blocked: http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org] [promobay.org]
The latter is the one we're talking about, I think.
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that is a sig waiting to happen. Thanks, AC! :D
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http://i2.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/the-graph-the-music-industry-doesnt-want-you-to-see.jpg?w=640 [wp.com]
The Puppy Bay (Score:5, Insightful)
This sets a rather curious precedent, I wonder how much further they might take it?
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BT blocks TPB using the CleanFeed system. The CleanFeed system was designed to block child porn, and to prevent criticism based on "slippery slope" arguments, BT promised that they would shut down the system rather than allow it to be used for other purposes than blocking child porn.
Yet here we are, BT's hands were tied by the court, and those who yelled "slippery slope" were proven right.
It doesn't help that there is no general right to free speech in the UK except what the Universal Declaration of Human R
Re:The Puppy Bay (Score:5, Insightful)
Aw so now the UK censors speech based on the speaker, rather than the speech.
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yes, it does, under Common Law: if it is not specifically illegal, then it must by definition be lawful.
The restrictions (there are many) encompass: defamation, hate speech including racism/sexism/anyotherism, incitement to violence, and affray.
Waitasec. I think you might be right, actually. By the strictest definition of the term "freedom of speech", it has been removed by (unlawful*) Statute.
*refer to the Parliament Act 1911, which removes the requirement of the physical Royal Seal on Acts of Parliament;
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um...kay... to someone like you (no offence intended), the UK does have Freedom of Speech, though not in so many words. Domestic Law (Statute) places restrictions on that freedom*, which negates it. So, basically, you can say what you want where and when you want, as long as you don't offend anybody.
*it's a false image of freedom; the Government would like you to think that you are in fact free to say what you want, but we've seen through such high profile cases as Abu Hamza (booted for preaching the Koran)
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Confusingly, there seem to be two sites out there called "The Promo Bay". This one works: http://thepromobay.co.uk/ [thepromobay.co.uk]
This one, for me, is blocked: http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org]
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I've got two different websites here... (Hutchison 3G UK, nothing is blocked through these guys)
No Problem Here (Score:2)
I get this message (Score:1)
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Quite. If they can put up a page saying a site is blocked by court order they can include a link to the public domain information of that court order.
Otherwise it can be used as a "don't blame us" get out clause for blocking anything just because they feel like it / fucked up.
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February's judgement [bailii.org] which appears to have been conducted ex parte (without the respondents or their representation present) and resulted in summary judgement for Dramatico et. al.
Telling in para. 17:
For the purposes of these proceedings, the Claimants rely in particular upon the copyrights which the relevant Claimant owns in each of the recordings in the following sample albums:
Recording Claimant
"The House" by Katie Melua Dramatic Entertainment Ltd
"It's Not Me, It's You" by Lily Allen EMI Records
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http://promobay.org/ [promobay.org] is blocked on my Virgin broadband connection.
See also: http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Chatter/Blocking-of-the-Promo-Bay/m-p/1589066 [virginmedia.com]
motives (Score:5, Insightful)
This pretty much proves that the MPAA/RIAA is not so much about "piracy" as about maintaining control over an industry.
There no longer is a need for big record labels, and very soon there will no longer be a need for the big Hollywood conglomerates. If you look at many of the biggest blockbuster movies, once you get past the first screen for "Dreamworks" or "Universal" or "Fox" you find that the actual work (including the funding) was done independently for the most part.
For now, the big labels and studios are like aging crime bosses that still get their cut from everything that happens in their respective industries. But their day is coming to an end.
The only question now is whether the most successful indie labels and film production houses are going to try to use the same obsolete business model of consolidation or if they're sufficiently enlightened.
Either way, The Pirate Bay (and others) presents the best reason why they need to change how they do business.
Same thing with games: This week, Ubisoft released Far Cry 3 in Europe (it doesn't come out until Dec 4 in the US). Their "uplay" DRM server immediately crashed, making the game unplayable for all the people who legally bought the game, even for the single-player campaign. Meanwhile, those who downloaded the RELOADED release from Pirate Bay had no problem playing their game, whether they were in the EU or US. And still they don't get the hint. Instead of realizing that their DRM was nothing but punishment for their paying customers, Ubisoft probably came away thinking, "We need more better DRM!@!".
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...>
Same thing with games: This week, Ubisoft released Far Cry 3 in Europe (it doesn't come out until Dec 4 in the US). Their "uplay" DRM server immediately crashed, making the game unplayable for all the people who legally bought the game, even for the single-player campaign. Meanwhile, those who downloaded the RELOADED release from Pirate Bay had no problem playing their game, whether they were in the EU or US. And still they don't get the hint. Instead of realizing that their DRM was nothing but punishment for their paying customers, Ubisoft probably came away thinking, "We need more better DRM!@!".
I've been playing Farcry 3 here in the U.S. for a week now. DRM has failed, it doesn't keep it out of the hands of anyone but paying customers.
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2. What, the cheeky fuckers calling paying customers thieves? They can stick Farcry 3 as far up their arses as it will go.
Sideways.
I'm on BT and I can see it. (Score:4, Informative)
So if they're blocking it might be pure DNS since I use OpenDNS.
OK for me on Virgin (Score:1, Informative)
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I can see it (Score:2)
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works for me (Score:1)
Without Mandated neutrality (Score:4, Insightful)
Any ISP can block any traffic for any reason.. We best get used to it, it will only get worse.
Blocked on O2 (Score:3)
It's blocked on O2.
My contract is up on 19th January. I will vote with my feet. I'll switch to Andrews & Arnold who publicly state that they don't censor, filter and track. It's a whopping £4 a month more.
Same IP (Score:2)
$ host promobay.org
promobay.org has address 62.239.4.146
$ host thepiratebay.org
thepiratebay.org has address 62.239.4.146
BT gives me "Error - site blocked" for both TPB and PromoBay.org which means they've hijacked the IP address itself. What I will have to see next is if anyone goes and tell the court that BT is doing more blocking than they've been ordered. They've been ordered to block TBP, but not anything else that may be hosted at the same IP address.
My conclusion: TPB is playing one of their games. Popcorn may be recommended for this one if the ball gets rolling.
Re:Same IP (Score:5, Informative)
Replying to myself because I just got the brilliant idea to see if BT aren't actually hijacking DNS itself, making me look like an idiot. Well... they succeeded:
$ dig +trace thepiratebay.org
#snip#
thepiratebay.org. 3600 IN A 194.71.107.50
$ dig +trace promobay.org
#snip#
promobay.org. 3600 IN A 108.59.2.74
Promobay.org works once I add its IP to /etc/hosts.
Why are BT hijacking the DNS for promobay.org? I have no idea, but a judge might be interested.
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hahah, you aren't even thinking this through. The US is more than north & south now. Think in more than one dimension.