Paypal Slips 'No Class Action' Clause Into Policy Update 294
First time accepted submitter Guru80 writes "PayPal recently posted a new Policy Update which includes changes to the PayPal User Agreement. The update to the User Agreement is effective November 1, 2012 and contains several changes, including changes that affect how claims you and PayPal have against each other are resolved. You will, with limited exception, be required to submit claims you have against PayPal to binding and final arbitration, unless you opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate (Section 14.3) by December 1, 2012. Unless you opt out: (1) you will only be permitted to pursue claims against PayPal on an individual basis, not as a plaintiff or class member in any class or representative action or proceeding and (2) you will only be permitted to seek relief (including monetary, injunctive, and declaratory relief) on an individual basis. With so many privacy policies changing to include such wording, does it really hold any weight if some obscure and buried opt-out option isn't checked?"
Re:Legal? (Score:3, Informative)
Class Action Lawsuits are often a big scam by the lawyers for them to make millions of dollars. While the "victims" (A mix of people who were actually a victim, and people who seem to meet the criteria but never really had a problem, but wants a few bucks) get their check for ten bucks.
Yes there are some good Class Actions out there, but most of them are just lawyers grabbing for money. After all is said and done. The company lost a lot of money, which could have gone to making things better earlier, and new jobs. And the real victims get joke change.
Non-Class actions where each victim has a separate suite can be more profitable to the victim, and causes the company to change before such suits become more common.
Re:Anyone find out how to opt out? (Score:5, Informative)
Opt-Out Procedure.
You can choose to reject this Agreement to Arbitrate ("opt out") by mailing us a written opt-out notice ("Opt-Out Notice"). For new PayPal users, the Opt-Out Notice must be postmarked no later than 30 Days after the date you accept the User Agreement for the first time. If you are already a current PayPal user and previously accepted the User Agreement prior to the introduction of this Agreement to Arbitrate, the Opt-Out Notice must be postmarked no later than December 1, 2012. You must mail the Opt-Out Notice to PayPal, Inc., Attn: Litigation Department, 2211 North First Street, San Jose, CA 95131.
The Opt-Out Notice must state that you do not agree to this Agreement to Arbitrate and must include your name, address, phone number, and the email address(es) used to log in to the PayPal account(s) to which the opt-out applies. You must sign the Opt-Out Notice for it to be effective. This procedure is the only way you can opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate. If you opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate, all other parts of the User Agreement, including all other provisions of Section 14 (Disputes with PayPal), will continue to apply. Opting out of this Agreement to Arbitrate has no effect on any previous, other, or future arbitration agreements that you may have with us.
"Slipped In?" Didn't you get the memo? (Score:4, Informative)
Not that I am defending it.
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
Could this possibly hold up in court? Isn't it our right to sue?
The supreme court ruled in April 2011 that not only can they require you to agree to not form a class action, but they can also require you to mediate all claims in forced binding arbitration (basically, a parallel court system bought and sold by corporations).
It was a 5-4 decision, and pretty much every agreement is now including this boilerplate legal text. They don't even HAVE to offer an opt-out. AT&T started it, followed up by all cell phone carriers, Sony, Microsoft, Ebay, etc etc etc.
The mere fact that the decision was split shows that even the justices don't know what rights there ought to be, and, unfortunately, the opinion of 5 of them means that corporations now have the right to collude against the consumer. After all, if everyone does it, the consumer has no choice.
How to opt out (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, in both AT&T Mobility LLC v. Conception and CompuCredit Corp. v. Greenwood the court has reinforced that you may enter into a contract which gives away your right to a jury of your peers for civil matters. Only in cases of outright fraud, either in the creation of the agreement or in the arbitration process will the courts intervene.
Re:Legal? (Score:4, Informative)
Could this possibly hold up in court? Isn't it our right to sue?
This isn't legal in the various provinces/territories of Canada. Each has their own CPA(consumer protection act), but each act pretty much has a section that says you can not be forced to waive any legal right.
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
That doesn't make it right to ban them though.
Frankly I'm amazed the law in the US even allows them to do this. In the UK contracts cannot take away your legal rights, including the right to take legal action.
Re:Legal? (Score:4, Informative)
I guess the first step is to call customer service, they give you the run around and basically laugh you off.
Second step is to ask for a manager who you never really get to speak to but maybe get to leave a voice mail or email to some generic mail box that in turn tells you the same thing but more cordially of course.
Now you either just give up because you've spent 10+ hrs time on hold and 2+ hrs on the phone trying to get transferred to the "Right Person(TM)" or you try to take it to the next step, Corporate!
They send you a canned message citing policy and some obscure paragraph in the 100 page agreement you clicked "Agree" to.
Even if you still believe you are right now you file a claim in small claims court. You get sent a library of congress sized package outlining why they believe they are right and you are wrong. You feel over whelmed and retain a lawyer to see the best course of action for a small fee of a couple grand. The lawyer says it will also cost an additional fee to read the mountain of paper sent and no guarantee but the outlook could be good!
2 months to the court date just to find out they need another court date because your TOS has changed (you did agree to the new terms last time you logged back in right?). All said and done 2 years later you may get an agreement of %50 of you original claim or settle out of court for %75 if you sign away all your future claim rights. Mean while the lawyer gets to trump up his fees and gets reimbursed 100% and you get $50 of your $100 claim.
So you think it's more profitable to sue individually? Please explain!
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
If the company has any physical assets within the jurisdiction of the courts you can petition the court to demand payment and if they fail to respond the judge can and often will send the sheriff to seize those assets to satisfy the judgement. If the company has no presence in your location then the general solution is to turn it over to a collections agency, most companies will settle with a collections agency quickly as they don't want to have their creditors apprised of them not making good on obligations.
Re:Anyone find out how to opt out? (Score:5, Informative)
The Consumerist [consumerist.com] has links to template letters for eBay [consumerist.com] (by November 9) and PayPal [consumerist.com] (by Dec. 1). You need to fill out, print and mail them by the deadline to opt out. That's physical, actual paper, snail mail. No online forms, no emails, no calls.
More info and speculation on whether you'll be deemed a troublemaker, persona non grata, communist, vegetarian, etc., etc. if you opt-out. [consumerist.com]
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Informative)
Why do you think it takes 40 hours?
Because I've done it. How many times have you done it?