Malls Track Shoppers' Cell Phones On Black Friday 198
antdude writes in with a story about two U.S. malls that plan on tracking shoppers' movements by monitoring the signals from their cell phones this Friday. "The management company of both malls, Forest City Commercial Management, says personal data is not being tracked. 'We won't be looking at singular shoppers,' said Stephanie Shriver-Engdahl, vice president of digital strategy for Forest City. 'The system monitors patterns of movement. We can see, like migrating birds, where people are going to.' Still, the company is preemptively notifying customers by hanging small signs around the shopping centers. Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones."
Opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess by that metric people who don't go there are also opting out.
Re:Opt out (Score:5, Interesting)
Suppose you root through people's trash and search for financial information. As long as you promise not to use it to single anyone out, its not malevolent. Anyone who doesn't like it can "opt-out" by keeping the trash in their house.
Re:Opt out (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Well that girl that was attacked last night, she should have put her self on the opt-out list. We assumed she was ok with it.
Re:Opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, at least you chaps over in the US aren't alone. I submitted a story about six weeks ago [slashdot.org] about two malls in Australia that were using the exact same technology. It made the local papers here [news.com.au], but never prominently.
It's okay, soon, we will forget about it and given that other countries are also doing it, we will accept it as the norm.
*sips coffee*
Re: (Score:2)
CNN did cover it over here. They even brought up a point that they could track you wandering into Victoria's Secret and record how long you were in there.
I wish they had been less up-beat about it but the fact that it was even covered is ... well.. better than nothing.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, if you turn off your phone you can't check prices and reviews online, can you?
May as well just go online in the first place and avoid the pushy crowds.
Re: (Score:2)
...to read the notice saying you will be tracked if you do not leave or turn off your phone, do you have to enter an area where you are already being tracked ...?
Re: (Score:2)
opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
>Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones.
I can opt out of billboards by not driving and staying at home. I can opt out of spam by not having an email account.
opt out, I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
Re:opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
I can "opt out" by telling the retails to go fuck themselves.
In fact, I think I'll call a few of them right now and tell them why they just lost customers. I can "opt out" by taking my business elsewhere.
Re:opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure they'll get the message...
Re:opt out (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not exactly sure which country you are from, but here in the U.S. a billboard is never a "sign. . . [that] doesn't do anything."
There are billboards that recognize your car and greet you personally:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/business/media/29cooper.html [nytimes.com]
There are billboards that aggregate the fm radio stations being listen to in passing cars the show the advert most likely to target the largest percentage of passing drivers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/27/business/media-business-advertising-new-billboards-sample-radios-cars-go-then-adjust.html [nytimes.com]
Interactive advertising inundates our modern lives. You're individual concerns aren't worth as much as the advertising dollars spent on you. No one cares that you feel like your privacy is being trampled, you're a target demographic and consumer. That makes your interests important only if your spending money. Opting out only makes advertisers not care what your opinion is because you are a "fringe demographic".
On a personal note, I still hate interactive movie posters. Ever since I walked past a poster for Step-Brothers and Will Ferrel scarred the piss outta me by suddenly coming to life and badgering me to come see the movie.
Re:opt out (Score:4, Informative)
I think that I shall never see: A billboard lovely as a tree. Indeed, unless the billboards fall: I'll never see a tree at all.
-Ogden Nash
Re:opt out (Score:5, Informative)
Except Amazon's shit at it. They keep on trying to sell me stuff I've already bought from them. It's rare for me to want to buy the same DVD twice, despite what the MPAA wants (ie one copy of a DVD per person watching the movie)
Re: (Score:2)
Because it's a good thing amazon doesn't track where you go, and use that information for analyzing traffic patterns.
Amazon is one store. A mall is a huge collection of stores. You don't see the difference there...?
Also, I can only speak for me, but I don't want that ballooning into all properties doing that and effectively tracking me, the same way I don't want all of my browser movements tracked and shared with the highest bidder.
It's funny how people don't seem so nutso when you have a clearer understanding of a topic.
Re:opt out (Score:5, Insightful)
It's funny how people don't seem so nutso when you have a clearer understanding of a topic.
That's one of the most widely recognized yet unwritten rules of Slashdot. I'm one of the few stubborn non-conformists who don't follow it.
The rule goes: "never miss an opportunity to be condescending and talk to someone like they must be a total idiot -- if they say anything that could be interpreted in an absurd way, don't EVER assume that maybe you have misunderstood them because that would mean missing an opportunity to meet your desperate need to feel superior to random strangers who have done you no harm."
It goes along with other rules such as "never infer anything on your own -- be deliberately dense, mechanically and literally interpret everything, and impatiently require that every possible nuance of a subject be spelled out for you" and "if you dislike something, or it offends you, or you wish it weren't true, it must be factually incorrect and you have no burden of proof when you claim it has been falsified" and "Googling an unfamiliar term takes a whole 20 seconds if you are particularly slow and this is such a terrible burden it is better to spend 10 minutes asking other people to do it for you and report back on the results."
It could be called sacrificing one's dignity at the altar of the ego.
Jammers? (Score:4, Insightful)
What will happen if you walk around with a jammer in your pocket/bag?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they're illegal, so...
Would be pretty god damned funny though.
Re:Jammers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Jammer? Hell, I was curious to see what would happen if I swapped out the SIM card from the phone every time I walk into a different store, or perhaps at random? Gather the whole family's pile o' SIMs, and maybe a couple of expired ones (they still work for emergency calls, so odds are good their signal will pick up).
I figure if enough folks did that in one mall (say, 100-200 people?), the algorithms would show enough crap data to basically have the management demanding their money back from the company that sold it to 'em.
Even better... I wonder what would happen if you and enough cohorts went to the mall, selected some bits to buy at different stores, walked up to the counter, and proclaimed to the cashier that "this is what I would have bought if your mall wasn't so invasive of my privacy by tracking my cell signal", then walk out, leaving the goods on the counter unpaid-for.
Re: (Score:3)
They can track IMEI, not just SIM (Score:2)
Every phone has a unique IMEI that is broadcast along with the SIM card number. If they've done their homework, then they're tracking the IMEI as well as the SIM card.
But even if one or two people did as you did, it would be meaningless noise in the sea of data.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Jammed... Raspberry! There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry!
Re: (Score:2)
I can imagine on their monitors, a perfect circle of white among all the red dots indicating people's phones. Perhaps the people studying the screens will think it's some smelly homeless guy walking around the mall staring angrily at customers, and none of them want to be within 20 feet of you.
Re: (Score:2)
Alright, considering my post was modded down I guess I need to be a little more clear:
How are you intending to jam the tracking antennas and not people's cell phones? If the answer is "I'm not", then you're going to earn the title 'asshole'.
Not as abusive YET (Score:5, Insightful)
But some day soon, it will be.
When there's a large enough pool of data on given subset of users "Anon" F through Q, analytical processes and programs will be able to determine when a member of said subset appears somewhere.
Using inter-subset heuristics, this information could be refined further to detail the habits of the individuals, such as Anon M.
While still technically "Anonymous", it would require a very, very small pool of data and additional research/tracking to determine who that Anonymous user actually is.
The technology is almost (if not already) there, and the real setback at the moment is simply not having all of that data yet.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Have you ever done anything illegal?
Sure?
You have .... ...you are now in jail
move (Score:5, Funny)
We are tracking your movements. You can opt out by not moving.
enhance your shopping experience? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ya, but the sign shown doesn't mention turning off your phone... Just to visit the Management Office or visit their website if you have questions. Of course, visiting the office will entail getting tracked. Also, I'm not sure how tracking our phones will help "enhance your shopping experience".
Re:enhance your shopping experience? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like those "customer loyalty" thingies. Do you really thing they are for *your* benefit?
They will use it to improve their ability to get money out of your pocket and into theirs.
Why do I want to help them do that??
Re:enhance your shopping experience? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the way they uses this information to get money is by offering things people want.
Dude, they don't use it to grab money out of your wallet.
They don't care about YOU. they care about the patterns of movement in the mall.
Benefits to you:
A) Better mall layout
B) better crowd control
C) Accurate information on shopping habits
D) more stuff more people want.
Re: (Score:3)
To make it easier to spend money.
And to make you and me feel better about spending more money.
The end result is the same. Less money in my pocket. And I'm supposed to be happy about that.
Just like a good little consumer should....
Re:enhance your shopping experience? (Score:5, Insightful)
The end result is the same. Less money in my pocket. And I'm supposed to be happy about that.
To be fair, the end result is twofold: less money in your pocket and more "things" in your house.
If you engage in a commercial transaction that does not provide added value to you, then you are entirely at fault.
Re: (Score:3)
If you engage in a commercial transaction that does not provide added value to you, then you are entirely at fault.
I used to think that. But then I realised that if one entity is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence you to make that decision, it isn't really fair any more. They aren't putting a gun to your head, but they are actively attempting to manipulate you using resources far beyond what you have access to and that's dirty pool.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Apple spends a shitton on marketing, and I have never bought an Apple product. Either I am a far stonger willed person than you, or marketing doesn't control me 100%. You decide.
Framing it as if it were an issue of being controlled 100% is just misdirection. The issue is that free markets are predicated on basis of both parties being fully informed. Marketing and other forms of manipulation explicitly seek to control how well informed the consumer is - such as requiring non-disclosures in settlements for defective products.
Re: (Score:2)
The issue is that free markets are predicated on basis of both parties being fully informed. Marketing and other forms of manipulation explicitly seek to control how well informed the consumer is - such as requiring non-disclosures in settlements for defective products.
Only if you swallow the marketing guff. When I bought my TV, I went to the shop, looked at all the TVs, found one that did what I need it to do at a price I thought was fair and bought it. If it doesn't work I take it back and get my money back. That is the free market in action. I fail to see how any amount of marketing changes that?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't understand how your decision to allow expensive marketing to influence you is in any way the fault of the people using the marketing. in fact, blaming marketing for the consumer's inability to objectively make decisions makes it seem like you're making excuses for being lazy.
I'm confident that the resources available to an average consumer who wants to discern the truth behind a marketing campaign far exceeds the resources available to any company to control what they see.
Now the government is certa
Re: (Score:2)
Like the other poster I think you are using the term "marketing" in far too narrow a sense, I've already mentioned NDA's for defective product settlements, but there are other forms of "marketing" like exclusivity agreements with vendors to artificially constrain consumer choice and secret kickbacks to salesmen (aka commissions like what happens with most mobile phone sales).
But yes I do blame marketers - they sure take the credit for increasing sales. Your belief that people choose to "allow" themselves
Re: (Score:2)
In the real world there are practical limitations on consumers' ability to fully evaluate the marketplace and most marketing practices explicitly seek to pollute that process rather than improve it.
My point is that there are few , if any, limitations to consumers' ability to fully evaluate the marketplace, there are individual limits to consumers' desire to fully evaluate the marketplace.
In the "Real World" everyone is forced to live with the consequences of their decisions. Society does a great job sometimes of pretending that this isn't so, but it fails to change the underlying principle. This goes for underhanded marketers as well, if you're lying about your product don't be surprised when there's
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I used to think that. But then I realised that if one entity is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence you to make that decision, it isn't really fair any more. They aren't putting a gun to your head, but they are actively attempting to manipulate you using resources far beyond what you have access to and that's dirty pool.
Yes let's ban all marketing because people might be influenced by it. I suppose you're the sort of person who accepts that something is a great deal because the salesman told you so. There are laws to stop false advertising already, beyond that it's up to the consumer to make the decision.
Re: (Score:3)
I suppose you're the sort of person who accepts that something is a great deal because the salesman told you so.
No, actually I am pretty much the opposite of that. I am extremely skeptical and I like to think that I am a very savvy shopper. I never watch commercials on television and I adblock everywhere I go on the web. I'm really good at spotting astro-turf campaigns and other kinds of shills. I also know how to research the shit out a product.
But you know what I've discovered? It's fucking exhausting. It is not reasonable to expect regular people with regular lives to invest as much effort as I do to combat
Re: (Score:2)
No, actually I am pretty much the opposite of that. I am extremely skeptical and I like to think that I am a very savvy shopper. I never watch commercials on television and I adblock everywhere I go on the web.
Why? Because you might accidentally believe it?
It is not reasonable to expect regular people with regular lives to invest as much effort as I do to combat the pernicious influence of million dollar marketing budgets.
Why do you need to combat it? What specific cases are you talking about where you've been so influenced and found it difficult to fight against said influence?
In the ideal world that the free market concept is predicated on, being a fully informed consumer would be a reasonable option for everyone.
It is a reasonable option for everyone, but people aren't always right about everything all the time so mis-information will persist.
Re: (Score:2)
That's completely true, but keep in mind, they were going to do that anyway, one way or another.
Re: (Score:2)
And the purpose of all those "improvements"?
To make it easier to spend money.
And to make you and me feel better about spending more money.
The end result is the same. Less money in my pocket. And I'm supposed to be happy about that.
So just because they make it easier to spend money you're so weak-willed that you can't help but spend more money? Then you then go on to blame them because you've got no self-control and will do something purely because it's easy to do.
Re: (Score:2)
But the way they uses this information to get money is by offering things people want.
Then why don't they just ask people what they want? Wouldn't the mall like to know that I miss the arcade and the toy store and those are two reasons I don't go to browse as often anymore?
Re: (Score:2)
How's that work when they don't have anything I want in the mall?
Yeah, no kidding. Back in my early 20's I used to go to the mall like once a week. I'd go to the arcade and blow twenty bucks. Then I'd check out the toy store, book stores, food court, see if any movies were playing, the hobby store, and the video store. Today when I go to the mall, I can only do one of those things. All those other places closed, probably due to rent being really high. Now it's all... clothes shopping. Even the coffee shop I liked to go to closed up.
The mall near me did do SOMETHI
Re:enhance your shopping experience? (Score:5, Interesting)
The difference between the loyalty thingy and this is that the loyalty thingy pays you a nominal amount. The amount you get paid varies from company to company, and usually you can only buy from that company. It's purely an opt-in process.
This on the other hand gives you nothing - and it's opt out in the one of the most invasive ways. Most people carry phones because they want to be contactable.
Re: (Score:3)
Do you really thing they are for *your* benefit?
Yep. Whenever anything begins with the phrase "For Your Convenience" you can be damned sure that it's for their convenience, not yours.
Re:enhance your shopping experience? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Until stores figure out how to use a bank teller queue I'll use those self-checkouts every time. Typically those have no line, or they use a bank-teller queue. That means that when I walk up to one I know exactly what kind of experience I'm going to have. Sure, maybe it takes a little longer if something goes wrong, but my time at the register is fairly predictable.
If I queue up in the normal human line inevitably I end up behind the person who is convinced that the sign had a price 3 cents lower than wh
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
While the customer loyalty things often track your purchases (not to spy on you or other fell purposes, but for useful statistical data), that's not what they're "for". What they're *for* is manipulating your shopping patterns to create store loyalty, which, while it usually doesn't seem effective consciously, is actually pretty effective.
Re: (Score:2)
Theoretically it's a case of mutualism. You stick your proboscis in the nectar of discounts, and get the pollen of demographic information all over you.
Re: (Score:2)
They will use it to improve their ability to get money out of your pocket and into theirs. Why do I want to help them do that??
The Force only works on the weak minded. Why worry?
Get used to it (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be surprised if other large commercial destinations (malls, amusement parks, sporting venues, etc) aren't using this tech already. It's not like these two malls invented it themselves, and even if they're the first to use it, it must have been beta tested somewhere.
I think we can agree that the "we won't be looking at singular shoppers" reassurance is completely ridiculous. As though there's some algorithm to digitally count the devices on a network and track their locations without, umm, actually counting them? The only question is how long the data is stored.
At the same time, even opting out now is pointless, as we've established that the phone company, the police, and the FBI all have access to your phone's location tracking information. It's a bit late to worry about whether or not to use things like Apple's "Find My Friends" app. Best to avoid owning a cell phone altogether if you're worried about being tracked, or at least leave it behind (and turn it off) when you don't want to be followed.
Re: (Score:3)
"I think we can agree that the "we won't be looking at singular shoppers" reassurance is completely ridiculous"
why? YOUR movement is of little value, the groups movement habits is of great value.
They don't care that you lingers in front of victory secrets* for 10 minutes.
Yes, you count the signals, not who ti's tied to. What? you think they are cracking the signal to find out the Jane Doe bought shoes?
*Victoria Secrets - Giving men a reason to go to the mall for 20 years.
Re: (Score:2)
That depends on who you're asking, I suppose.
What if trends show that you, at let's say 4 out of 5 visits to the mall, end up going to the Burger King after you're done shopping at, say, GAP.
Wouldn't it be awfully nice, for Burger King that is, if you could be reminded about the new burger / free soda / two for one deal / whatever at Burger King when you exit GAP so that your 4 out of 5 statistic can be bumped up to, maybe,
Re: (Score:2)
Wouldn't it be awfully nice, for Burger King that is, if you could be reminded about the new burger / free soda / two for one deal / whatever at Burger King when you exit GAP so that your 4 out of 5 statistic can be bumped up to, maybe, 9 out of 10?
No, actually it wouldn't. It would be god damn annoying. But then I don't shop at the places I am told to, I shop at the places I want to; and I only buy things when I want / need them, not when they are "OMG ON SALE BUY NOW!".
Re: (Score:2)
Either way, it's interesting information to have on individuals.
Yes. It is fundamentally naive to think that given the choice, marketers will turn down the option to collect more information on potential customers. Once that information is collected it is ripe for abuse - by the marketers, by their disgruntled employees and by the government.
Re: (Score:2)
*Victoria Secrets - Giving men a reason to go to the mall for 20 years.
OT here:
Heck with men. My 8 year old stepson walked by one and said, "Let's go in THERE!" Yeah, we're going to have fun with this kid, I tell ya. =D
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, we're going to have fun with this kid
You going to show him some porn and then take him to the whorehouse? Eh, don't answer. I really don't want to know.
Re: (Score:2)
Many commercial free wifi services do similar tracking and even eavesdrop on the data passing through them (although of those with disclaimer portal pages, none have mentioned this). I always thought it was odd that so many of them run full-blown Windows...
http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GX/global/industries/technology-media-telecommunications/tmt-predictions-2011/telecommunications/16629ece1407d210VgnVCM2000001b56f00aRCRD.htm [deloitte.com]
Anonymous? So Far... (Score:5, Interesting)
TFA:
"The tracking system, called FootPath Technology, works through a series of antennas positioned throughout the shopping center that capture the unique identification number assigned to each phone (similar to a computer's IP address), and tracks its movement throughout the stores. ... And it doesn't collect any personal details associated with the ID, like the user's name or phone number. That information is fiercely protected by mobile carriers, and often can be legally obtained only through a court order. "
Yet. You can bet your sweet bippy that while the mall can't get the identifying information, the mall *will* sell it to the carriers who do have the information. This would be a marketing goldmine for the carriers, and one they could not help but to exploit for fun and most importantly, profit.
I would opt out by simply not shopping at that mall. My cellular phone is for my own convenience and one that I pay to maintain, it isn't so companies can figure out where I shop and give them incentive to try to get me to be a good little consumer and spend all my money.
My tolerance for this kind of thing is getting lower each time I read stories like this. More and more, companies seem to view the public as sheep to be shorn without any expectation of privacy, rights nor recourse.
Re: (Score:3)
wtf are you talking about? the phone company can get the information already, AND they don't give a shit what you buy.
This is like the crazy phone company conspiracy of the 70s.
They collect th data, and make the mall experience better. How the FUCK is the sheering sheep?
Re: (Score:2)
wtf are you talking about? the phone company can get the information already, AND they don't give a shit what you buy.
They might be interested if you spend a lot of time in rival phone companies' stores.
Re: (Score:2)
My cellular phone is for my own convenience and one that I pay to maintain, it isn't so companies can figure out where I shop and give them incentive to try to get me to be a good little consumer and spend all my money.
No-one is forcing you to spend money, show a little self-control. And if you don't want to be 'tracked' get a pre-paid SIM (get someone else to buy it for you if you're really paranoid) and put it in an outright-purchased phone.
If you don't want to be tracked then don't broadcast personally identifiable information, simple.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if they do end up using your data for marketing, you'll have details of things your girlfriend has shown an interest in sent right to your phone.
And, because you like sex, you'll buy them.
A better way to opt out... (Score:2)
This was covered in /. in 2008... (Score:5, Informative)
Newfangled Shopping (Score:4, Interesting)
Tracking what? (Score:2)
They cannot track cell phones but rather your wifi and Bluetooth MAC addresses.
Just switch them off and you are done.
Or Sue the mall management as an option.
Re: (Score:2)
Or Sue the mall management as an option.
Sue them for what?
Re: (Score:2)
For trying to access your smartphone
Well they aren't trying to access your smartphone, they don't appear to be doing anything but capturing data you are publicly broadcasting.
for chasing you and so on.
Sue them for chasing you?
Contrast with Google WiFi Geolocation Opt-out (Score:4, Insightful)
It's interesting to see the contrast in comments between this story, and the recent Google WiFi Geolocation Opt-Out story:
http://search.slashdot.org/story/11/11/15/1459208/google-to-allow-location-service-opt-out [slashdot.org]
While in the case of Google's geolocation services the common argument is that your SSID/MAC needn't be identifying and you're broadcasting it so one has no right to complain anyway... ...here it's almost the complete opposite. Here the broadcasted information is for one's own benefit (the ability to use a cell phone) and it doesn't matter that the information isn't necessarily identifying it's still evil to collect it.
This despite the SSID likely originating from a private (or business) residence, while your cellphone's signal is originating within another business' location.
Now obviously there are differences, and the people commenting may not be the same, but I wonder if what's really the difference isn't the fact that there's likely to be little benefit to somebody that cell phone signals are being tracked*, versus the major benefit of faster / less power-hungry geolocation from recording WiFi locations.
( * Supported by the notion that most people don't seem to take much issue with e.g. TomTom partnering with cell providers to detect traffic trends in order to warn users of their navigation devices/software of, among other, traffic jams - as obviously that's a major benefit to the user. )
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
opt-out practices (Score:2)
I'm not into more government intrusion into our lives, but the entire opt-out concept should be illegal. It should *all* be opt-in.
Opt out? (Score:3)
Consumers can opt out by turning off their phones."
This is like a spammer telling you that you can opt-out of junk mail only by closing your e-mail account.
A telemarketer telling you that you can opt-out of unwanted calls only by changing your phone number.
A credit card company telling you that you can "opt out" of credit card offers only by waiting until a bill with them is 60 days overdue before paying it.
A social network website informing you that you can only opt-out of tracking by refraining from using other websites while logged in to your account.
A magazine informing you that the only way you can opt-out of automatic renewal is to cancel your subscription before it renews (but you don't receive the issues in between the cancel date and the expiration date, and no refunds).
A monthly book club informing you that the only way you can opt-out of ongoing membership after ending service is to cancel the bank account whose routing/account number was used to signup for the service.
etc... etc.... none of these "opt-out" are true opt-out. True opt-out, means the consumer can WITHDRAW THEIR PERMISSION to perform the unwanted activity, and it will stop WITHOUT INCONVENIENCE to the consumer, such as having to refrain from using a tool they would normally use, or refrain from partaking in basic services such as phone service.
As for the ability to receive cell phone signals and use that to track people... I question if it's even legal. The mall doesn't have FCC licenses to operate a receiver on the license restricted private radio frequencies used by cell phones, DO they??
Last I checked, it was illegal to eavesdrop on a cell phone signal as a third party. "receiving the signal" to detect its presence is no different from receiving a signal to eavesdrop on the contents of the message -- both are wiretapping either way.. I suppose we should see the mall management jailed and prosecuted to the full extent of the law........
How is this different? (Score:2)
stupid tech sold to stupid mall owners (Score:2)
stupid tech sold to stupid mall owners.
sure, it's doable. sure, it gives you nice metrics.
are those metrics worth shit? FUCK NO. the mall owners could just go and look which places are busy or ask the rent-a-cops.
besides than that.. what the fuck are they going to do with the data? charge higher rents from popular shops? or charge them less? the company making most of this tracking is simply the company selling the tracking service. and for it to be good they'll have to track next year too. "hahaha".
(actual
Re:Opt-In (Score:4, Interesting)
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing - on one hand, apparently connecting to an unsecured wifi network is perfectly acceptable because it's publicly broadcasting a signal, but on the other hand tracking a publicly broadcasted signal from a mobile phone is a big no-no.
Re:Opt-In (Score:4, Insightful)
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing
You do realise that Slashdot is a web site where thousands of different people post their opinions and not a single person, right? And that one person who thinks A is probably not the same person who things not-A?
Re: (Score:2)
I thought I made it clear that I understood precisely that by commenting about the many conflicting faces...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing - on one hand, apparently connecting to an unsecured wifi network is perfectly acceptable because it's publicly broadcasting a signal, but on the other hand tracking a publicly broadcasted signal from a mobile phone is a big no-no.
Try looking past the surface. Those two positions are entirely consistent in the context of the balance of power.
When a megacorp collects data on individuals the megacorp is huge with resources vastly outclassing any of those people who themselves aren't even organized. When an individual uses an open wifi access point - at worst the balance of power is roughly equal - individual who operates the wifi and the individual using it, and in many cases it is a megacorp operating the wifi, significantly tilting
Re: (Score:2)
I do find the many conflicting faces of slashdot amusing - on one hand, apparently connecting to an unsecured wifi network is perfectly acceptable because it's publicly broadcasting a signal, but on the other hand tracking a publicly broadcasted signal from a mobile phone is a big no-no.
You do realize that slashdot is a community of many different people with different opinions? Or is there one specific person who has this conflicting opinion you speak of?
Personally im of the belief that you shouldn't broadcast anything you don't want publicly known.
Re: (Score:2)
connecting to an unsecured wifi network is perfectly acceptable because it's publicly broadcasting a signal, but on the other hand tracking a publicly broadcasted signal from a mobile phone is a big no-no.
At a technical level, an SSID is a public invitation to join a network (granted, the owner of the device may or may not realize that). Cell phone traffic, on the other hand, is a private conversation which you are intercepting/wiretapping (possibly decrypting A5/1 or other ciphers used to secure such communications... I'm not a cell phone expert). The WIFI equivalent would be doing a packet capture on your neighbor's traffic (and possibly decrypting WEP/WAP to do so). So there's no contradiction from a tech
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah. Only time I'd want to be "tracked" would be sending my location to 911 so's they could take my heart-attacked self to the ER. Otherwise I believe it's nobody's business where I am and where I go.
That is completely unrelated (Score:4, Interesting)
You need to just quit whining. "Black Friday" refers to Friday the 13th, or any Friday on which a catastrophe occurs. The only reason the day after Thanksgiving is called "Black Friday" is because the Philly PD started calling it that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)#Origin_of_the_term [wikipedia.org]
JANUARY 1966 -- "Black Friday" is the name which the Philadelphia Police Department has given to the Friday following Thanksgiving Day. It is not a term of endearment to them. "Black Friday" officially opens the Christmas shopping season in center city, and it usually brings massive traffic jams and over-crowded sidewalks as the downtown stores are mobbed from opening to closing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Does the FCC actually allow this?
It doesn't have to. Tracking cellphones can be done passively. FCC lacks jurisdiction when you don't generate "communications".
What you may be looking for is a consumer protection bureau.
Re: (Score:3)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Scanner_(radio)#Legal_issues_in_the_US [wikimedia.org]
I'm interested in where you would buy the equipment to do this. Who is selling lots of small networked cell phone receivers that would pull the IMEI from the datastream? How cheap are they that a shopping mall can buy a box full? And are those same receivers also able to listen in to the conversations, or are they only monitoring th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)