Lower Merion School District Update 367
Mike_EE_U_of_I and jargon82 were among a number of readers who sent an update on the Lower Merion School District webcam spying case (see Related Stories for our discussions of the affair over the last couple of months). The school had originally stated that capturing laptop photos in students' homes had only happened 42 times. It turns out what they meant was that there were 42 instances when they began intensive surveillance on the suspected stolen computers. This consisted of (among other things) transmitting a picture from the laptop's webcam every 15 minutes. This may have gone on for weeks. In total, it appears that there were thousands of photos. One of the key administrators involved has been answering all questions about the program by invoking the Fifth Amendment.
Surprise, Surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what they caught... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fifth Amendement Right (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the key administrators involved has been answering all questions about the program by invoking the Fifth Amendment.
Which, to be fair, is entirely his or her right. Trying to infer guilt from this (tempting though it may be) violates what most of us stand for. Tossing that statement in at the end of the summary seems to be an attempt to imply guilt, though.
(Which isn't to say that I don't think this program was stupid and criminal.)
He can plead the Fifth in jail too. (Score:4, Insightful)
One of the key administrators involved has been answering all questions about the program by invoking the Fifth Amendment.
Hope this asshat understands that pleading the Fifth isn't going to prevent a judge or jury from finding/ruling against him and punishing him.
"If I don't say anything I'm safe." doesn't work in the real world when you've already been caught.
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:4, Insightful)
Where have you been lately? If you're accused of a crime it clearly means you're already guilty. How dare you go against the mob mentality!
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think it's an attempt to imply guilt, but more show the cracks in the formerly unified stance of the board et al. Fifth Amendment invocation is different than "no comment," and it shows that some members are starting to think of themselves, rather than the message.
Insanity in School Districts (Score:5, Insightful)
I have never understood how school districts think.
On one hand they're terrified of getting sued. They have huge lists of things, even common, ordinary actions, that are not allowed to prevent even the slightest chance of getting sued.
Then, on the other hand, they take actions that random people on the street realize will cause a lawsuit. Strip searching students for searching for asprin, cancelling proms when gay students wish to attend, secretly spying on students with webcams. What the hell are they thinking?
Re:Subvert it... (Score:3, Insightful)
She
And that is a terrible idea. These people need to pay for what they have done. Prison time and sex offender registration, the whole 9 yards.
Pleading the fifth isn't going to do shit to protect them if the prosecutors have documented evidence showing what they have done, which it seems they have.
WTF (Score:1, Insightful)
From TFA:
An attorney for the district declined to comment last night on the Robbinses' latest motion, except to say that a report due in a few weeks will spell out what the district's own investigation has found.
"To the extent there is any evidence of misuse of any images, that also will be disclosed," said the attorney, former federal prosecutor Henry E. Hockeimer Jr. "However, at this late stage of our investigation we are not aware of any such evidence."
Unless he's saying that they weren't taking pictures of students in their private homes after all, what could they possibly have done with the pictures that wouldn't be "misuse"? This guy sounds as crazy as the people running the shool.
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:1, Insightful)
Actually, the fifth amendment right being invoked is a balancing mechanism. You're not allowed (legally) to invoke the fifth amendment for any statement that isn't self-incriminating, by definition; therefor, when you refuse to answer questions on those grounds, you indicate that you believe at least one of two things:
At this point, we essentially know you're guilty of something; and by asking the right questions, we can force your answers to necessarily not contain other incriminating evidence of any relevance. In other words, it's dead easy to determine what exactly you're holding back, and prove your guilt.
However, because of the way the law is intended (not written...), we can't include that as evidence; your invocation of this right is completely off-the-record for purposes of determining guilt. More interestingly, invocation of the fifth amendment when you're not hiding anything self-incriminating could be assessed as perjury; so we again know you're guilty of one thing or another, but can't exactly prove what.
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it was put in there, because the students weren't given the opportunity to excercise that right (nor the 4th amendment). How nice of that administrator to hide behind the very document they tried to shred to pieces.
Re:Insanity in School Districts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:He can plead the Fifth in jail too. (Score:3, Insightful)
Hope this asshat understands that pleading the Fifth isn't going to prevent a judge or jury from finding/ruling against him and punishing him.
"If I don't say anything I'm safe." doesn't work in the real world when you've already been caught.
It does prevent you from getting yourself deeper into shit, however.
Re:He can plead the Fifth in jail too. (Score:3, Insightful)
RTFA ... SHE invoked HER Fifth Amendment rights.
Which will just make things worse for her when the logs are read & the forensics finished.
No, it will merely mean that she used her Constitutional right. She didn't want to give the opposing attorneys ammo they could shoot her with. They'll have to use evidence and facts instead of her own statements, which doesn't appear to make things too difficult for them.
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law". The cops have no obligation to use anything in court that may help you, so saying you are innocent serves no purpose.
Often the best course is to shut up, get a good lawyer and let the evidence speak for itself.
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:5, Insightful)
You should NEVER answer questions when being questioned. NO MATTER WHAT. Get a lawyer and have them speak for you. As they CAN NOT incriminate you.
Re:Subvert it... (Score:2, Insightful)
the Fifth (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a "self-incrimination" clause, it is a clause against being a witness against yourself in a criminal case.
excerpt from the Fifth Amendment:
"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"
The difference that I'm trying to make is that there doesn't have to be a presumption of self-incrimination to invoke it, just that you don't wish to testify about something involving yourself.
Re:You know what they caught... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Surprise, Surprise (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Taking the 5th is always right! (Score:3, Insightful)
Who the heck modded this off-topic? The summary brought up taking the Fifth, and that film is absolutely 100% apropos.
Basically, if you don't take the Fifth, you're an idiot.
One thing still bothering me (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to say...seeing school administrators being treated to "zero tolerance" would be very sweet schadenfreude.
rj
Re:Taking the 5th is always right! (Score:1, Insightful)
And before any of you moderators get any ideas about down modding this post, I counter with a xkcd link:
http://xkcd.com/402/ [xkcd.com]
It's got cameras in it and this story is about cameras. Now you have to mod me up.
Re:You know what they caught... (Score:4, Insightful)
Gee, threads that drag a joke on too long on slashdot, what a surprise.
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:5, Insightful)
First, taking home a school laptop in this situation would be a violation of school rules and possibly a civil matter, but not theft. For it to be a theft, there would have to be a reason to believe that the kid intended to keep it.
Second, the school district's excuse doesn't fit the facts. There's no indication that they didn't know that the kid had the laptop. It was issued to him, and there's no indication that, however they discovered that it wasn't at school, they even bothered to ask him about it. In any case, if they had actually been trying to find a missing laptop, why would they have kept the camera on for two weeks? Did it really take that long to identify the kid? And when he was finally confronted by the school administration, why did they not punish him for improperly taking the laptop home if that was the issue? According to the press accounts, that issue was not raised. Instead, they raised the bogus issue of him popping pills that were actually candy.
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:4, Insightful)
You should NEVER answer questions when being questioned. NO MATTER WHAT.
It can never be said enough: ALWAYS follow the above advice.
Cops and prosecutors are as lazy as anyone else and ten times as suspicious as anyone else. YOU are their first suspect because you have your mouth open and you have some knowledge of the crime.
NOTHING good comes of talking to them without a lawyer present. NO matter HOW innocent you are.
I used to be the designated person to report missing property when I worked for the state IT dept. (Probably because I was the whitest, most eloquent and innocent looking person working there.) I've been seriously grilled, accused and even cuffed to a chair once when REPORTING crimes. I had to do this at least once a quarter. I quickly realized why my boss (an older black woman) had me do it instead of her.
Re:One thing still bothering me (Score:3, Insightful)
The least intrusive means would have been to call the student's parents and ask if he had the laptop with him. Yes? OK, please pay the insurance fee before he takes it home again, thanks. Issue resolved.
Re:Do Not Fall For This Dangerous Scam (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the key administrators involved has been answering all questions about the program by invoking the Fifth Amendment.
No doubt he was instructed by his lawyer to do so. At least this means that the 'Oh Shit' lightbulb has finally gone off in someones head, someone finally is realizing that this could very easily end up with jail time and a spot on the sex offenders registry.
Actually, I hope they all end up on the sex offenders registry, and get the book thrown at them... Not because they are sex offenders per say (I doubt their intention was to see naked kids), but they should have thought through the potential issues with photographing the viewer of the laptop screen. I hope the judgment is harsh for two reasons:
1) Its a gross violation of privacy, the 4th Amendment, and basically human decency.
2) Things that get you on the sex offenders list needs to be changed - its too easy to have sex with your 17 year old gf when you're 18 and end up as a sex offender. Those laws need to be re-evaluated.
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:1, Insightful)
Um, that's when you are being questioned by an officer of the court while in court, Einstein. When a reporter asks you a question and you 'plead the fifth' it just makes you look like more of a moron than you were before. The fifth amendment is protection in a COURT OF LAW. Your Miranda Rights are protection against the police. Saying 'No comment' is protection against reporters.
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:3, Insightful)
Whereas, with the 5th amendment, that's the District Attorney's job, and the process is called "plea bargain". Huge improvement.
Re:Lightbulb? (Score:3, Insightful)
Depends on how hot she is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Lafave)
Re:Fifth Amendement Right (Score:3, Insightful)
The student stole the laptop.
Really! He stole it?
Did the school file a police report on the “stolen” item? Did they make a reasonable effort to identify the “thief” and then to promptly inform police of whose door to break down to recover the “stolen” item? Did they contact the poor student whose laptop was “stolen” to inform him that the laptop assigned to him had been “stolen” and to assure him that it would be tracked and recovered?
Re:Do Not Fall For This Dangerous Scam (Score:3, Insightful)
LOLwhat? Where the hell did that come from? Read the fucking page, moron. It's a scam, and has nothing to do with anything you just said. You do not have a 'straw man' bank account that the government set up in your name as collateral. You do have to pay taxes, even if you file all the batshit paperwork suggested.
But you know what? Forget I said all that, I'm just an evil Statist. Go ahead and pay for the material. File that paperwork and become a sovereign individual. Refuse to pay your taxes and try to cash checks on your straw-man account. I'm sure it will work now, they just needed to work the kinks out of the legal language.
Hey, there's probably a saying about that (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One thing still bothering me (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm more convinced than ever that this is BS. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's a silly argument, the same sort of logic and amateur forensics lead many birthers to the conclusion that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.
If this image was fake, I'm sure the judge in the case would be furious. IANAL, but I'm sure that lying to the media about evidence in an ongoing case is somewhat unethical...
More likely: The image was cropped, maybe by the news organization or the family. Sure, it does have good composition, but to assume that the image is uncropped and too good (and therefore must be fraudulent!) needs a great big jump to conclusions mat.
Oh and...
That might just be the most disturbing thing I've read on Slashdot all day. I'm hoping you simply didn't consider your words carefully...
Re:I'm more convinced than ever that this is BS. (Score:2, Insightful)
Who goes to sleep with their laptop turned on and the camera pointed right at their face
Anyone who placed his laptop near the bed, was reading, and drifted to sleep at some point.
Re:Never heard it used that way before. (Score:3, Insightful)
So, using the safety and comfort of modern societies (and lying to oneself that you're "sovereign") plus the goal of contributing back as little as possible.