Sony Sues Rootkit Maker 334
flyboy974 writes "Sony BMG Music Entertainment is suing the company that developed anti-piracy software for its CDs, claiming the technology was defective and cost the record company millions of dollars to settle consumer complaints and government investigations. The software in question is the MediaMax CD protection system, widely derided as a rootkit. Sony BMG is seeking to recover some $12 million in damages from the Phoenix-based technology company, according to court papers filed July 3."
Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:4, Interesting)
With all these name changes, I wonder when Macrovision is going to change theirs?
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Funny)
Also, we've always been at war with Eastasia.
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Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:4, Insightful)
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Wow, I'm suddenly excited: this entire business DEPENDS on being able to change their trademarks every now and then!
Now all we have to do, is wait that they run out of trademarks and implode upon themselves. Shit, there's quite
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I'm confused (Score:2)
Then, they announce they're going to recall the CD's, and I'm supposed to like them again.
Then, their "removal" program doesn't work as advertised, and I'm supposed to hate them again.
Now, they sue the company that provided them with the DRM, implying that they didn't want a rootkit to begin with.
So is Sony "good" again, or are they now evil for using the legal system? It often seems to be taboo around here for any company to su
Re:I'm confused (Score:5, Funny)
Sony releases DRM protected discs = -5,000 pts.
DRM Discs contain rootkit = -10,000 pts.
Sony denies any wrongdoing = -60,000 pts.
Sony realizes mistake = +100 pts.
Sony releases patch = +1,000 pts.
Public realizes cure worse than the disease = -5,000 pts.
Sony recalls discs = +10,000 pts.
Sony releases BluRay and PS3 = 0 pts.
Sony sues DRM Manufacturer = + 1pts.
So, in total, Sony is 68,899 points in the hole. I think its safe to say they're still pariahs here.
Re:I'm confused (Score:5, Insightful)
The Sony I used to love is dead. Management changes have turned it from a pioneering company into a slogging lumbering hulk that only wants more money, not customers' loyalty.
-nB
Re:I'm confused (Score:5, Informative)
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Personally, I don't currently intend to ever purchase anything from Sony again. I suppose that they *could* change my mind, but not without understanding just how evil it is to put rootkits in people's computers. After realizing that, then they'd need to decide to provide genuine, as opposed to symbolic, recompense. Then they'd have to actually do the deed. That would bring them back close to neutral
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Which is why those who support that portion of the DMCA are enemies of freedom.
So to speak.
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony made the purchase from Amergence -- they are claiming, among other things, that Amergence delivered a product that did not operate as described.
If Amergence wants to sue Fortium along the same reasoning, they are welcome to -- though I think they'd have a hard time of it.
Who originally wrote the rootkit is of no relevance. What matters is whether Amergence falsely represented the product they sold to Sony.
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Insightful)
It's probably understandable that technologists would assume that the original author of the software would be the correct target of the lawsuit. This is not so. Sony is not suing over the failure of the code (the code worked relatively correctly), but over the fact that the software was sold to them as a means of controlling their market, and it not only failed to do so, but cause serious injury to their business as a result. That's the fault of the people who represented this software to Sony as a viable solution with acceptable risk.
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is not to say that Sony BMG's case has any merit. But then I, and everyone else here, do not know what the contractual arrangement between the two companies was and how the rootkit was presented to Sony.
Re:Sony BMG does nothing to hurt their reputation (Score:5, Funny)
Chain of Commerce (Score:3, Informative)
>I hope SunnComm (now called The Amergence Group), as despicable as its own efforts were, totally owns Sony BMG.
In dealing with product liability claims, which this is, you have the right, generally, to go after anyone in the chain of commerce you want. If they think someone else is at fault, they can cross-complain. This provision is good consumer protection.
For example, let's say you bought one of the famous inferno model Mr. Coffee makers at Sears. You take it home, take it out of the box, plug
$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:5, Insightful)
Its Worms Vs. Birds (Score:2)
Modest Mouse
Worms. vs Birds
Self pity me, it's so pitiful
You can see that birds and worms don't get along
Self-righteous me, it's so wrong and
You can see that we don't have to get along
Self pity me, it's so pitifull
You can see that birds and worms do not agree
And we will crawl
(Will crawl)
Sony = Bird
DRM = Worm
No, scr
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Hey, could you re-post? I think your last word got cut-off; I couldn't see it.
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This whole thing stinks big time
Re:$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think Sony should be the ones suing them, they contracted the software, and it was delivered to their specifications. Sony can't blame the people who wrote the software for doing what was asked.
If Sony didn't know what the software was doing then it's their own stupid fault.
If the software was illegal, then it's surely a matter for criminal court, and surely Sony shouldn't be awarded damages for being stupid enough to have this software written in the first place
Re:$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think they probably missed one important specification:
It was supposed to do it without anybody knowing about it.
Re:$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony settled with various governments to avoid a lengthy legal process. If one of their suppliers was responsible for the illegal code, and falsely represented to Sony that the code was completely legal, then Sony sure as hell has both standing and reason to sue to be recompensed for those damages.
Yes, Sony was responsible for releasing the rootkit on their CDs. However, it is quite possible that Amergence should be held responsible for misleading Sony if that is in fact what happened.
Re:$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:4, Interesting)
They should have said that a year ago. And bent over backward to fix the problem. Instead, you may recall, one of their public statements was to shrug it off and say "Most people don't even know what a rootkit is." As if somehow that was the salient point.
I can't understand how anybody who does understand what they did would ever do business with them again, just as a matter of principle.
Would you contract to Sony for DRM after this?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:$12,000,000 is peanuts. (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you think went down? Sony asked for a noninvasive piece of monitoring software that could be easily detected and removed or blocked from being installed, and then they were delivered a fucking rootkit instead and they went "Dur, look fine to us" and ran with it? Fuck no. They tested it, inspected it, decided it was exactly what they wanted, and then ran with it. And they deserve every penny lost because of their actions.
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I agree with you, this does not let Sony off the hook -- however, there may be culpability at Amergence as well, and I would like that to be determined and consequences levied. What I would really like to see is Sony being fined an addit
Responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Now they are trying to hold someone responsible for distributing to them.
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From me weak understanding of corporate politics and keeping in step with t
Re:Responsibility (Score:4, Insightful)
Counterpoint:Sony is still ultimately responsible for what goes on their disks.
Counter-counterpoint:If Sony sends a software engineering firm a description for a project and the firm gives them a finished project, expecting Sony to have software engineers of its own to go over and affirm it is built to spec is a bit hard to swallow. They might have well just built it themselves in the first place. I'm sure you could think of a million examples, like a mobo manufacturer that orders capacitors that are faulty. .
Alright, before I go I'll say one more thing: How does this compare to Firestone v. Ford blowouts. Discuss.
Re:Responsibility and Rat Poison - a war of words (Score:2)
Re:Responsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Responsibility - PR DOES hurt (Score:3, Interesting)
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It seems like they are bringing to the public light again. Most people I know have forgotten about this debacle (or never knew about it to begin with). If I was Sony, I'd try to bury the rootkit fiasco as much as possible, not have a large public lawsuit.
Seems like really bar PR. But then again, it IS Sony.
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Re:Responsibility (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not really the way it works, in any company.
Too many deals are done for a large company to scrutinize every single product they buy. That's the whole point of using outside vendors; if they're going to put in the time to fully examine all the code, they may as well just develop the DRM themselves. Instead, the contracts are worded in such a way that it puts the onus on the provider of the product. That way, it's in the best interests of the provider of the product to ensure that what they're providing meets specifications and adheres to the letter of the contract. Otherwise, they know they're at risk of a lawsuit like this.
I doubt the contract here was any exception, which means Sony most definitely has the upper hand. And they really have to file a lawsuit in order to preserve their leverage against all of their other technology providers. This is how they ensure they get what they're contracting for.
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And I sincerely doubt, based on Sony's comments at the t
I bet they knew but didn't understand (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I bet they knew but didn't understand (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.betanews.com/article/Sony_President_Ro
Suuuuuure, Tony. That kind of flip attitude about it will not be exactly convincing.
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Remember that Sony music is completely separate from the software part of the company...There
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I've never worked for a company that would purchase an unknown product without first reviewing it. Especially when it is a large company like Sony doing the buying, and building it into products that they are selling under their own brand there is no way I can see that happening.
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The whole point of buying it, is so you don't have to develop it yourself.
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Unless of course Media Max kept quiet about the potential problems (or didn't realise, or whatever) I really can't see Sony winning this.
Oh, they saw it all right (Score:2, Informative)
When you are selling a product with a significant technical "issues", the standard practice is to use a technique I call "sell high". With this method, the salesperson seeks out the highest level "decision makers" they can find -- making an effort to go over the head of anyone with a technical background. The sales team typically consists of an MBA-type male who comes across as a golfing buddy to the de
Like a celebrity deathmatch... (Score:2, Funny)
You're hoping there's some way both will lose.
Re:Like a celebrity deathmatch... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Jeepers! Did you read my post? I said I hope they both lose a celebrity deathmatch.
You notice that at no point do I express my wish for Kim Jong Il to win anything, let alone the presidency of the most-armed-to-the-teeth country on the planet.
Re:If Kim Jong Il Were President (Score:4, Insightful)
[/joke]
The enemy of our enemy... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is actually a very good thing, because no-one involved will be immune to the consequences.
Dan East
Zero chance (Score:2)
Why stop there? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony lawyers are shocked and surprised. (Score:5, Funny)
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“Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?” — Thomas Hesse, President, Global Digital Business, Sony BMG Music Entertainment
Well, Tom, I think you’re about to find out. Have a nice day, now!
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Next to Carl Rove's email folder on the rnc.org mail server?
Time to [try to] save face.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sony isn't earning any points back with me on this one..
Taking responsibility (Score:3, Insightful)
But isn't this a bit like a bank robber who shoots a cop suing Smith and Wesson? E.g., it sounds like Sony knew (or should have known) exactly what it was putting on their CDs.
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how many more such companies? (Score:2)
Wow! Excellent point. Maybe NO company will ever want to put undisclosed root-kits in software for bigger companies (like Sony) because they'll fear litigation. Maybe Sony will never be able to get that kind of software from an outside company again!
Oh, wait, you didn't mean that you thought putting the fear of litigation into companies selling evil software was a bad thing did you?
There's an idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
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You must be living in some sort of weird neighbourhood. It is considered normal around here, in the Anwar province of Iraq
Re:There's an idea! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you hired a security company to burglar proof your home and were not present for the installation of land mines then you might have a case.
Worms. vs Birds (Score:3, Interesting)
Modest Mouse
Worms. vs Birds
Self pity me, it's so pitiful
You can see that birds and worms don't get along
Self-righteous me, it's so wrong and
You can see that we don't have to get along
Self pity me, it's so pitifull
You can see that birds and worms do not agree
And we will crawl
(Will crawl)
Yeah!!! (Score:2)
What a pleasure to watch a fight between two assholes: in either case, you win!
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Blood Suckers (Score:2, Interesting)
Last fall, the company agreed to pay a total of $5.75 million to settle the litigation and resolve investigations by officials in several states.
Sony BMG is seeking to recover some $12 million in damages from the Phoenix-based technology company, according to court papers filed July 3.
$12 million > $5.75 million
Will the real victims here (the customers) see this extra cash?
The Sony Corporation
Making cash off of their customer misfortunes since 1946
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Defective by Design (Score:5, Informative)
But didn't they read the Click-through EULA? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mod this up! (Score:2)
Let me be the first to say... (Score:5, Interesting)
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I hate them because they released a $600+ console ( + because it's even more expensive once you buy a game and a second controller) but what I'm saying is that it's a really boneheaded idea, and I don't know how they ever thought it would have mass appeal, no matter how good the graphics are.
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The interesting angle here is that a software manufacturer is being held responsible for the failures of its software. It would be interesting if this suit was allowed.
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sony dummies? (Score:2)
this is a good thing (Score:2)
I hope Sony read the EULA... (Score:5, Funny)
"Section 938.334 Sub W.
By agreeing to use this product to proctect your music CD's from piracy you also agree to hold us immune from any lawsuits, incurred directly or indirectly, due to your customers not liking this product."
oops... Guess they should read those EULA's VERY CAREFULLY...
At least that is what these companies would say to us...
":{ Grr...
IT'S DEFECTIVE (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, did anyone here think Sony complained that it was a rootkit, and that this was the defect? Get real.
Long term consequences (Score:2)
If they sue MediaMax, this starts a ripple wave throughout the industry that scares off companies considering the DRM business only to discover the liability of your customer(s) suing you.
So this hampers development of DRM technology. What sane company would go into business with a mega-corp that ligitates their suppliers?
With DRM hampered, this reduces the effectiveness of copyright. Go Sony!
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say no to DRM jobs (Score:2)
In 10 years we won't even have DRM anymore as more and more of the public wakes up and turns against DRM [especially DRM that makes their lives harder than they need to be].
Tom
Have you guys actually been boycotting Sony? (Score:3, Interesting)
Shortly after it happened, I promised myself I would buy nothing with a Sony brand for at least a year. To my knowledge, I complied with that (though they do have tentacles in more things than you think, so who knows). I figured I need to end the boycott after a year, or else there wouldn't be any incentive for them to change anyway. I still haven't bought anything major from Sony -- the very name SONY screams to me "infected millions of PCs with rootkits, and tries to take away my Freedom!" But enough time has passed that I would probably consider buying a Sony product if it really were the right one for me.
How about you?
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I did buy a clock radio from them
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Let them eat each other. It's all Sony's fault. (Score:2)
Fight the root kits! (Score:2)
Here's what I think should happen. (Score:2)
2. The court also finds that the company sued was acting as the agent of another company, named Sony, and that it is that company, and not the one originally sued, which is liable.
Sony pays Sony $12M. Everybody wins!
Works for me (Score:3, Informative)
Sounds like a good plan to me, take careful aim at that foot, Sony!
If there is any justice they will get a coupon (Score:4, Interesting)
If there is any justice then Sony will just get a coupon for more rootkits from the company and not any actual money.
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In all seriousness though, if you pay someone to write you some software and it fucks up, whose fault is it? Theirs for not testing it, or yours for not testing it again?
Maybe we'll see another article in a couple of days:
Rootkit Maker sues QA company...
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if you pay someone to write you some software and it fucks up, whose fault is it? Theirs for not testing it, or yours for not testing it again?
This would be relevant for unintentional errors. But this rootkit, as far as I understood, performed just as designed. It was an intentional nastiness, and that nasty intention was shared by both Sony and the software company.
A better analogy would be: if you pay a hitman to rid you of your nemesis, and he gets caught, who will go to jail? The answer: both you and the hitman...
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However, the guy who asked you to do it shouldn't be paid the damages.
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Using a gun in self defense is legal. Using a gun to murder someone is illegal. Creating the gun is legal.
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