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United States Upgrades Your Rights Online

DoJ - Making Data Public Would 'Crash System' 879

Posted by simoniker from the genius dept.
orthogonal writes "The Justice Department today denied Freedom of Information Act requests to make public data on foreign lobbyists, claiming that '[i]mplementing such a request risks a crash that cannot be fixed and could result in a major loss of data, which would be devastating'. The requestor responded that '[t]his was a new one on us. We weren't aware there were databases that could be destroyed just by copying them,' Bob Williams of the Center for Public Integrity said Tuesday. Maybe we should tell John Ashcroft about open source database and copying solutions?"
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DoJ - Making Data Public Would 'Crash System' More

DoJ - Making Data Public Would 'Crash System'

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  • Ahhh... (Score:5, Funny)

    by lukewarmfusion ( 726141 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:38PM (#9564975) Homepage Journal
    And that's why you shouldn't use Access for your Enterprise Solutions.

    • Re:Ahhh... (Score:5, Funny)

      by beacher ( 82033 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:42PM (#9565026) Homepage
      I heard it was one big Excel workbook with a tab for every SSN#.
    • Gentlemen, Gentlemen please!

      This is an MS Works project

    • Re:Ahhh... (Score:5, Funny)

      by tunabomber ( 259585 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:04PM (#9565277) Homepage
      Oh, c'mon. If our government can build cruise missiles that can reliably fly through the goalposts of a football field after being launched from hundreds of miles away, I don't think they'd be using Bronze age technology for storing our vital public records.
      I'm sure that they designed a new high-density storage medium that encodes bits of information as the polarizations of photons bouncing around in nanoscale optical cavities.
      After storing all that data, the government realized that thanks to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, if we now attempt to read the information, we will destroy its quantum state, thus destroying the data in the process.
      I'm sure that's it- they're just dumbing down the details so that us SlashDotters can understand it... *snicker*

    • But seriously, they do (Score:5, Insightful)

      by xixax ( 44677 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @07:09PM (#9565902)
      McIntyre explained in a May 24 letter that the computer system - operated in the counterespionage section of the Justice Department's criminal division - "was not designed for mass export of all stored images" and said the system experiences "substantial problems."
      I am willing to believe that what Mr Ashcroft says may even be true. I have seen enough to not be suprised that the Govt. commissioned a database that copes with scanned documents being gradually over many years, but chokes utterly when the accumilated data needs to be exported.

      There one was a datavault built on compartively unusual hardware which operated post-maintenance for many years, it was an insanity to empty because the vendor did not do Gigabit ethernet for it and the 100 MBit cards were scrounged from the vendor's junk-pile. Sucking terrabytes of data from crappy, second qaulity NICs took months. So negligence rather than conspiracy might be the actual reason.

      Xix.

      • Data available via ANALOG? (Score:5, Informative)

        by rm3friskerFTN ( 34339 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @12:56AM (#9568139) Journal
        From the AP article [tbo.com] in question one finds a DOJ link [usdoj.gov] that was most interesting:
        Foreign Agents Registration Unit (FARA) Counterespionage Section [these are the people who evidently maintain the database in question]

        The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) Unit administers the FARA and maintains a public office to make all registration materials available to the public. In addition, it administers and/or provides advice for certain other statutes related to either matters requiring registration with or notification to the Attorney General.

        Public information (ANALOG only cause they use Sperry-Univacs rather than FAA vacuum tube computers - feel safer?) relating to the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) can be obtained in person at the FARA Registration Unit Public Office located at:

        Department of Justice Registration Unit 1400 New York Avenue, N.W. 1st Floor - Public Office Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20005

        Researching Hours: 11 AM - 3 PM Mon. - Fri.
        Filing Hours: 8:30 AM - 5 PM Mon. - Fri.

        Having worked at NASA JPL many years ago, I sympathize with the task of trying to move data between Sperry-Univac 1100 written tapes, onto a PR1ME 850 and thence to a NEC 8088-ish PC (ms-dos 3?) with a 5-in floppy AFTER failing with the OCR equipment

  • Well, we could... (Score:5, Funny)

    by th1ckasabr1ck ( 752151 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:39PM (#9564986)
    Maybe we should tell John Ashcroft about open source database and copying solutions?"

    Well we could, but then he would have to come up with ANOTHER bogus reason. Cut him some slack, the man works hard enough as it is.

    • I don't think you understand .... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by taniwha ( 70410 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:55PM (#9565812) Homepage Journal
      when he said "will crash the system" he really ment "will crash The System" .... ie having the people know more about what the government is doing is inherently bad for having a well run govt. and besides if we find out who's paying off who it might be made to stop

    • Re:Well, we could... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Rasputin ( 5106 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @09:43PM (#9566981) Homepage

      ...the man works hard enough as it is.

      Yes! There are a hundreds of semi-naked statues out there he hasn't yet covered!

      "Curtains for semi-nude justice statue" [bbc.co.uk]

  • A New Low (Score:5, Funny)

    by JaxGator75 ( 650577 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:39PM (#9564987)
    Must... Resist... Urge... to Kill...

    In other news, I won't be paying my taxes this year as I firmly believe the influx of cash will "Break the Bank".

  • Backups (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KaSkA101 ( 692931 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:39PM (#9564995) Homepage
    Hmm, so I guess they don't keep backups of their own data, if making copies of it would cause the data to be lost. I guess we just have to hope (or not) that their computers or hard drives never fail.

  • Not being able to copy? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) * <{moc.krahsehtwaj} {ta} {todhsals}> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:40PM (#9565002) Homepage Journal
    McIntyre explained in a May 24 letter that the computer system - operated in the counterespionage section of the Justice Department's criminal division - "was not designed for mass export of all stored images" and said the system experiences "substantial problems."

    Does this mean that they never make backups either? Sounds like just a bad excuse...

  • Already suffered "major loss of data" (Score:5, Funny)

    by hoggoth ( 414195 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:42PM (#9565038) Journal
    What this REALLY means is that they have already suffered a "major loss of data" but never made any backups and have been trying to hide the fact that the database has been GONE for weeks, months, or even years under grade school-level excuses.

    • Q: Incompetance or Dishonesty? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @08:27PM (#9566488)
      Yet again we get a claim of incompetance as a counter to implied dishonesty. I suspect both are involved.

      The political excuse of this time appears to be something like "I'm a useless idiot so it isn't my fault - and I didn't know about the money no matter how many people told me". An excuse like that should not be acceptable.

      This current excuse that letting people look at things will let all the smoke out of the magic box is just childish.

      have been trying to hide the fact that the database has been GONE for weeks
      In the city where I live a state government department (not in USA) has a wharehouse full of boxes with dates marked on them, and no other form of identification. These boxes have been building up for decades, and all of the paperwork is effectively inaccessable.

      The paperwork involving lobbying is undoubtably a different story - we got to see the Nixon-Saharto connection (Indonesion president - big donation one day proir to the invasion of Timor) when the paperwork was released recently, but the information would have been a tightly gaurded secret back in 1975 since it could have brought down the government sooner.

  • ow my jaw! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrLint ( 519792 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:43PM (#9565039) Journal
    Wow, i think I broke something whilst picking my jaw up off the floor.

    If the computer will crash by accessing these records, then this implies the records are inaccessible. Not to mention that if the records magically 'disappear' all they have to say it "look we told you so"

    I dont think anyone is gonna believe this for a second. More like a lot of people want this information permanently buried as to avoid letting the public know whats going on.

    • Perhaps... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tyler_larson ( 558763 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:53PM (#9565798) Homepage
      If the computer will crash by accessing these records, then this implies the records are inaccessible. Not to mention that if the records magically 'disappear' all they have to say it "look we told you so"

      Perhaps it's not as simple as that. From what the DOJ seems to be saying, extracting and compiling a report of this size using the existing interface could, quite understandably, render the system unstable. In theory, then, such a system may behave unpredictably and could potentially damage the database. That would, of course, imply that the DOJ database is built on unstable, outdated technology--but we already knew that. They're working to improve that, but it will take many years and millions of dollars.

      The reporters aren't asking for (nor are they entitled to) a complete backup of the database. That would be comparatively easy to provide, but is obviously out of the question, as it would include much more than just the authorized content.

      Perhaps they'd have better luck if they made a whole bunch of small queries: Instead of saying "send me everything you've got", they could say "Send me all relevant content for August 1947", then "Send me all relevant content for September 1947", and so on.

      You could argue that the instead of forcing the reporters to take the time and money to make thousands of small, separate requests, they should be able to make a single blanket request and have the government office subdivide it internally. However, such an assumption would not take into consideration the fact that you're working with a government office that is only helping you because they're required to by law. Give them a single excuse to say no and they won't hesitate to give you nothing at all.

      • Re:Perhaps... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Wednesday June 30, 2004 @02:29AM (#9568554)
        However, such an assumption would not take into consideration the fact that you're working with a government office that is only helping you because they're required to by law. Give them a single excuse to say no and they won't hesitate to give you nothing at all.
        Am I the only one who sees a problem with this fact, given that we're supposed to be part of a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people?"

  • I wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

    by poofyhairguy82 ( 635386 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:44PM (#9565052) Journal
    Many Justice Department computer systems, especially at the FBI, are considered outdated. The FBI is spending nearly $600 million to modernize its antiquated systems.

    How will the FBI put all that old information on these new systems then?

    • Lets say the information is held on magnetic tape, now after a while I suppose it starts to get a bit brittle.
      Running it through a reader without first restoring the tape could degrage the data and tape to the point where it could no longer be reconstructed, e.g. all the ferite comes off of the tape and floats accross the room in a plume of dust.

      So, if the data's stored on old tapes they may have a case.

  • Disturbing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:44PM (#9565053) Homepage Journal
    Attorney General John Ashcroft ordered federal agencies in October 2001 to review more closely which documents they release. Ashcroft's policy lets officials withhold information on any "sound legal basis." Under looser policies issued in 1993, agencies could hold back information to prevent "foreseeable harm."

    particularly because the policy allows withholding information due to "foreseeable harm" to the Administration, and not necessarily to the country.

  • How Conveeeenient (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hondo77 ( 324058 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:44PM (#9565054) Homepage

    The government said an overhaul of the system should be finished by December and copies should be available then.

    Not available until after the November election, eh? How conveeeenient.

  • This deserves a prize! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eamacnaghten ( 695001 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:45PM (#9565062) Homepage Journal
    My congratulations to the Justice Department - this excuse deserves a prize! Although it is common for people to make excuses that bare no relation to reality, but rarely they show such imagination as this!

    This paces the Justice Department on par with Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, the recently retired Iraqi Information Minister in it's inovation of repartee in the face of fact!

    I hope they do not copyright this reason as it is so good I think I will use it (if I can) when the circumstances arise.

    • In my IT job I use the, "Sure, I could do that, but it would blow up the entire system," all the time.

      Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the important work playing City of Heroes.

  • Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Niet3sche ( 534663 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:45PM (#9565067)

    This makes me glad that I live in a state that utilizes MATRIX and seems to strive against individuals' digital personas being kept close to the individual's chest. *sigh*

    On a more serious note, perhaps the government should look into being this tight-lipped when it comes to combining, merging, and actively data- and text-mining databases and data sets ... you know, such as those that paint a complete and full picture about a person from individually innocuous bits of datum. Maybe EFF ought to get involved in this (don't flame - I've not hopped over to EFF for soem time now; I'm sure that they actually *are* involved). Then again, hopefully the INDIVIDUAL would ultimately attain/retain ALL IP over their OWN data.

    Yeah, I know. I can hear 100,000 people muttering, pipedream, along with me.

  • Take a page from adult websites (Score:5, Funny)

    by maddugan ( 549314 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:45PM (#9565070) Homepage Journal
    I am sure there are pr0n websites with backend databases more relieable than what the government is using.

  • Most likely irrelevant anecdote (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jokkey ( 555838 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:47PM (#9565087)

    One of my Linux machines is currently suffering from some substandard SCSI equipment and some DMA problems on one of the hard drive controllers; until I can schedule the downtime for software upgrades and hardware troubleshooting, I'm leaving things the way they are. As long as that's the case, the system mostly works, but certain disk-intensive operations (such as searching hundreds of MB of logs) degrade performance enough to make the system nearly unusable.

    I doubt that this is terribly relevant to the computing problems experienced by massive government databases, but I can at least conceive of how a "mass export of all stored images" (to quote the article) could significantly interfere with the database's everyday usage on a sufficiently poorly-designed/maintained/updated system.

    The article also states that the government plans on having the upgrades completed, and the data available, by December. (I'm not going to touch the issue of how accurate this statement is.)

  • Plausible deniability (Score:3, Funny)

    by blair1q ( 305137 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:47PM (#9565097) Journal
    Ashcroft is saying he doesn't know how without opening up the computer and copying it all using pencil and paper.

  • In related news (Score:4, Funny)

    by Big Nothing ( 229456 ) <tord.stromdal@gmail.com> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:48PM (#9565105)
    This warning just in from John Ashcroft:

    "Whatever you do, do not vote for Senator John Kerry in the upcoming presidential election. Implementing such a vote risks a crash that cannot be fixed and could result in a major loss of data, which would be devastating."

  • Hmm... Convenient much? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by An Onerous Coward ( 222037 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:49PM (#9565111) Homepage
    "The government said an overhaul of the system should be finished by December and copies should be available then."
    I'm a little fuzzy on things like this. Would someone remind me if this is before or after the election?

  • Easy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Smallpond ( 221300 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:50PM (#9565126) Homepage Journal
    SELECT * WHERE organization != "Haliburton"
    and Country != "Saudi Arabia"
    and Topic != "Energy"
    ORDER BY "Contribution Amount"

  • lies & excuses (Score:3, Interesting)

    by __aaitqo8496 ( 231556 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:50PM (#9565131) Journal
    it's all just another lie told to us by our government. it's nothing new, but i think this republican majority government is realizing that all this access to information is not beneficial to the government powers which widely conflict civil liberties.

    it seems they've simply given up and just make up blantant lies which are served to the american public as excuses.

  • Yeah... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cardshark2001 ( 444650 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:52PM (#9565151)
    Hmm.... what good is a database if you can't get the data out of it?

    Whatever process they use to look at the data could be used to copy it and give it to the FOIA petitioners.

    Or maybe they just put stuff in there and don't look at the data, because it would crash. That would make a lot of sense.

  • The Patriot Act (Score:5, Funny)

    by The_Real_Nire ( 786847 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:53PM (#9565170)
    Maybe we should tell John Ashcroft about open source database and copying solutions?"

    With the Patriot Act in effect, and all of your lines tapped, I'd say John Ashcroft already knows.

  • Executive Secrecy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Morthaur ( 108553 ) <slashdot at morthaur dot net> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:55PM (#9565189) Homepage
    What this is, is perjury, and Ashcroft should be brought to task for it by Congress (*sigh* As _if_ they could be expected to do their job...).

    Ashcroft issued a directive upon taking office that F.O.I.A. requests should be obstructed as far as possible, in line with the secrecy that has surrounded this entire administration. This is merely one more crass lie in furtherance of that ideology. The man has lied constantly since taking office and has been allowed to get away with it. Why?

    Have we stopped caring about transparancy and republican values at home, whilst at the same time singing the praises of 'democracy' abroad? Are we all content to allow this proud nation to slip slowly but surely into a permanently-militarised social order? Will _you_ accept the suspension of habeus corpus, or of the entire Constitution, and live happily in a police state?

    Me, I'd rather die on my feet, with my fist in the air, than my knees. I refuse to trade my freedom for cold comfort.

  • Resign, Mr. Ashcroft (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Randym ( 25779 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:56PM (#9565200)
    Under looser policies issued in 1993, agencies could hold back information to prevent "foreseeable harm."

    I hereby call for the resignation of John Ashcroft on the grounds that his ineptitude in responding to legitimate FOIA requests clearly causes "forseeable harm" to American democracy.

    Not to mention that the excuse he gave is *not* one of the reasons permitted to be cited by the government to avoid giving us -- the American people, who paid for it all -- *our* information.

    Mr. Ashcroft is from Missouri, the "Show Me" state. Tell me, Mr. Ashcroft: what part of "Show me the public records" do you not understand?

    • Re:Resign, Mr. Ashcroft (Score:4, Insightful)

      by multiplexo ( 27356 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:13PM (#9565363) Journal
      John Ashcroft is the biggest fucktard to ever hold the post of Attorney General, he's even managing to make Janet Reno look good. Look at Ashcroft's record, he's from Missouri, the "Show me how" state, he's an incumbent senator and he loses to a dead Democratic challenger. Think about this, the citizens of Missouri decided that they would rather vote for a dead guy than Ashcroft. How the fuck does any incumbent senator lose to a dead challenger? Jesus Christ, how much fucking paste did Ashcroft eat in second grade anyways? Was he nibbling the lead paint chips off the walls? Do they even allow him to have regular scissors at DoJ? Or do they just give him those left-handed kindergarten ones so he doesn't hurt himself?

  • Response Conflicts with the Law? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jtheletter ( 686279 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:56PM (#9565201)
    I don't pretend to have a full understanding of the Freedom of Information Act, but isn't there a whole section detailing reasons that a request can be turned down? I know the obvious ones such as endangering national security (as if that weren't an excuse they could stretch a mile anyway), or the like, but I seriously doubt that a request could legally be denied on the basis of GROSS INCOMPETANCE and LACK OF JOB SKILLS on the part of the person fulfilling the request.

    That's like a request being denied because the clerk was too tired to go down in the basement to find the files.

    If fulfilling the request somehow breaks something, then the response should be to fix the damn thing and then fulfill the request.

  • Why even make up excuses like this? (Score:3, Funny)

    by FauxReal ( 653820 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:57PM (#9565205)
    They might as well cut to the chase and just destroy the data... But then again, they'd lose track of all the favors they need to hand out after the elections. I guess they can wait till (hopefully) some court forces them to share the information. Then they can use that "The data was destroyed" excuse.

  • Maybe they tell the truth? (Score:3, Funny)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @05:57PM (#9565215) Journal
    What they mean is their database runs on "EasyDB123 Trial Version" and they cant give more than 10 queries per day or they will be forced to upgrade.

  • Causality loop (not a Star Trek reference) (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Hamster Lover ( 558288 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:09PM (#9565321) Journal
    How do they know that the records will be destroyed by accessing them? Have they accessed the records already and destroyed them?

    More importantly, if they can "fix" the records in time for December, by their logic, wouldn't this process endanger the records from destruction in the first place?

    Only government would pull a paradox out of its ass as an excuse.
  • To me, a rather damning part of the whole statement was that the data would be available in December -- basically, "You can have the data, but not if you plan to use it to investigate the candidates' integrity for this election".


    Hmmm....

  • There Is No Spoon (Score:5, Funny)

    by notcreative ( 623238 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:15PM (#9565386) Journal

    DEEP VOICE: Unfortunately, no one can be -told- what the data on contributions from foreign lobbyists is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
    (shows a blue pill.)
    You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe about the FOIA.
    (a red pill is shown in his other hand)
    You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how fucked up the DOJ really is.
    (you begin to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.

  • Regime Change (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Java Ape ( 528857 ) <mike,briggs&360,net> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:29PM (#9565534) Homepage
    Frankly, I'm sick of the rampant hypocracy of the "United Corporate States of America" and our war on freedom. Worse, the battle's already lost.

    I've written enough letters to my congresscritters that the probably have me filed under "wacko" in several different categories. Their replies show a polite distain for my pitiful rights and nearly-useless vote.

    Knowledge is power, and those in power are determined that we lemmings be kept ignorant of the the deeds done in our name for our own good. The only thing more dependable than finding our representatives have sold us down the river for personal profit, is that keeping such dealings quiet is a matter of national security. After all, if all the little lemmings figured out they were being cheerfully led over a cliff they might not follow so blindly. Computer malfunction my arse. I work as an Oracle DBA -- if I EVER responded to a request for data this way I'd be canned on the spot, and rightly so. Somehow, I doubt anyone is suddenly unemployed at the justice department.

    Personally, I'm beyond disgusted. I'm voting again EVERY encumbent, since I don't think there's a human being in office worth the air they breath. Maybe if everyone voted against all incumbents for a decade or so we'd flush the professional policiticians out and take back our country.

    On the other hand, I'm seriously considering emigration to a land where freedom means something, like Russia!

  • System Crash (Score:4, Insightful)

    by drtomaso ( 694800 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:34PM (#9565581)
    "Implementing such a request risks a crash that cannot be fixed and could result in a major loss of data, which would be devastating," wrote Thomas J. McIntyre, chief in the Justice Department's office for information requests.

    Translation, for any non-techies visiting today:

    "Implementing such a request risks a scandal in the President's Administration that cannot be spun and could result in a major loss of a national election, which would be devastating."

    Seriously folks, I firmly believe that another four years under this administration threatens our physical security, as well as our civil liberties. I'm not one to usualy cry "Special Interests!", but this is exactly the kind of data that must be made public for a democratic republic to work. December is just too late to allow voters to make an informed decision, but I suspect thats the point.

  • Quick, someone notify the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)

    by Derekloffin ( 741455 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:35PM (#9565597)
    And the MPAA for that matter. The Government has found a truly uncopyable storage media and I'm certain both of these organizations will be overjoyed to put it to good use.

  • uk perspective (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:39PM (#9565648)
    I don't know quite how these things tend to play in the states, but over here I would read this as "that database on which we spent X millions of your money is in fact total crap and we couldn't find our arses with both hands"

    While most readers will [probably correctly] take this to be a rather poor government whitewash, it could equally be a sign that the government's IT strategy has been fragmented and piecemeal for ages.
    This tends to happen in democratic nations because big IT contracts, like other government contracts, tend to go to companies favoured by the extant administration (despite all the charming fiction about open tendering).
    When a new administration is eventually voted in, it's time for them to pay back various favours to certain friendly companies, and so new expenditure will be announced.

    The end result of this is government departments and organisations each with their own mishmash of systems with no thought at all given to interoperability.
    The chances of them ever getting their shit together enough to collate everything into a massive uber-database with every record on every citizen in the UK is nil, so I'm not that worried.

    Like I said, I don't know the situation in the States vis-a-vis government records, but everywhere in the world, governments all share the same founding principles of confusion and inertia.
    That, and there's waaay more people in the USA. 5x population = at least 5x records = a lot more than 5x complexity.

    All that being said, this remains a transparent and contemptible display of ass-covering by Ashcroft..

  • Backup Excuse #2 (Score:4, Funny)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@geekaz ... minus physicist> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:40PM (#9565656) Homepage
    Overloading the DOJ servers at this crucial time during the War on Terror could bring critical network communications to a halt, making America vulnerable to terrorist activity.

    To justify anything nowadays you have to use the "t" word.

  • Freedom of Information Act - is a Joke (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Honest Man ( 539717 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:42PM (#9565667)
    It's intended to give the Government full access to information across it's many levels - not so the public can access it..

    Really, who are we trying to fool here? The Gov't is not going to release anything it considers useful for at least 50-100 years.

    Sorry, I guess I dont have much faith in the legal system when Judges and Gov't officials can outweigh the will of the people - this is not the America I was born in....frankly its more like the Russia I remember as a kid and thinking 'I sure am glad I live here in a Free Country'..... Now I sit here and wonder when an 'honest' Judicial/Governmental system will come around and really think about the people's needs instead of who's lining their pocket book..

    I'm not holding my breath on this being released - because the Gov't is more paranoid about giving up data than p2p users are in sharing in public places, lol.

  • Administration marked by lack of transparency (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tehanu ( 682528 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:44PM (#9565689)
    One of the scariest things about this administration is the sheer lack of transparency. While all governments like hiding things, this one seems to think that the public has no right to know anything, of course for their own good. Even Congress seems to be out of the info loop! Everytime someone tries to ask them for transparency or information they stonewall them sometimes with ridiculous reasons like this (or by swearing at them aka. our vice-president). Combine this with laws that reduce rights of ordinary citizens (aka. Patriot Act) and how they are trying to increasingly concentrate power in the hands of the President (who seems to think that Congressional and Judicial oversight of his activities is a bad thing) who professes the theory that a President is legally allowed to do anything to foreign and US citizens eg. torture, infinitely holding them, invading a country etc. and the only reason he doesn't do it is because he's nice (rather than because it's say illegal to torture someone) and America is heading towards dangerous waters.

    • Re:Administration marked by lack of transparency (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CoitusRex ( 712916 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @07:09PM (#9565905)
      In this light the following quote from Bush, in response to Bob Woodward asking if the president explained his positions, is not surprising at all:
      Of course not. I'm the commander. See, I don't have to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation.

  • Can you Americans understand now (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xutopia ( 469129 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:49PM (#9565744) Homepage
    why the rest of the world believes you are not living in a "free society". Maybe NATO should invade your country and free you for your opressors.

  • See? Code is Free Speech! (Score:5, Funny)

    by e.m.rainey ( 91553 ) <`erik' `at' `rainey.name'> on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @06:50PM (#9565758) Homepage
    /* politcal-pseudeo-C */
    int ashcroft_test()
    {
    int error = ERROR_NONE;
    char *quote = "[i]mplementing such a request risks a crash that cannot " \
    "be fixed and could result in a major loss of data, which would be devastating";

    if (isTellingTruth(quote) == TRUE)
    {
    if (ashcroft.budget < ashcroft.expectedBudget)
    {
    ashcroft.requestLargerBudget();
    error = ERROR_BIG_GOVERNMENT;
    }
    else if (ashcroft.StaffIQ < IQ_SEA_TURTLE)
    {
    ashcroft.admitIncompetence();
    error = ERROR_INCOMPETENT_GOVERMENT;
    }
    else
    { /* developer note: I could never get
    * this condition to activate in
    * testing... oh well. */
    error = ERROR_UNKNOWN;
    }
    }
    else // less than honest answer
    {
    if (isTooDifficult(quote) == FALSE)
    {
    ashcroft.takeVacation();
    error = ERROR_LAZY_GOVERNMENT;
    }
    else if (dislikeFOIA(ashcroft) == TRUE)
    {
    ashcroft.evadeFOIA();
    error = ERROR_CLOSED_GOVERNMENT;
    }
    else
    { // some sinister plot I'm sure!
    crackpots.startDreaming();
    error = ERROR_UNKNOWN;
    }
    }
    return error;
    }

  • Quantum computing? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Lonath ( 249354 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @07:05PM (#9565875)
    Maybe they're quantum databases containing all possible information, and actually looking at them to copy them would collapse the possibilities into only one state.

  • misquote (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GunFodder ( 208805 ) on Tuesday June 29, 2004 @07:13PM (#9565942)
    I believe they misquoted Thomas J. McIntyre at the top of the article. This should have read:

    "Implementing such a request risks a crash of our Administration that cannot be fixed and could result in a major loss of credibility, which would be devastating to our hopes of being reelected."

    Notice that they will be able to supply this information in December, which is conveniently after November.

    This could work out like Nixon's tapes though; the fact that this information exists and the current administration is withholding it from us could be enough evidence to damn them in the court of public opinion.

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