Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Caldera Government The Courts Your Rights Online News

SCO's Biggest Investor Admits It Loves IP Lawsuits 270

Roblimo writes "A Baystar Capital spokesperson has finally admitted, directly and on the record to NewsForge reporter Chris Preimesberger, that they believe SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits against Linux users and vendors. 'We're looking for the best return we can, and we think the focus should be on IP licensing (and enforcement),' said BayStar spokesman Bob McGrath."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

SCO's Biggest Investor Admits It Loves IP Lawsuits

Comments Filter:
  • by ObjectiveGiant ( 767054 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:29AM (#8958427) Homepage
    ... is a bad investor. =\
    • by monkeydo ( 173558 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:34AM (#8958738) Homepage
      Don't fall for Roblimo's deception. He's deliberatly distorting the story. He says that Baystar thinks, "SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits." But then he quotes the Baystar spokesman as saying the focus should be on licensing. Duh. That's how companies make money from intellectual property. Of course this is only possible if you can make the threat of legal action.

      So really Baystar never said they love IP lawsuits. They said they want to make money off of IP. I'm sure that they would much rather just collect license fees than have to sue, contrary to what the title and Roblimo's description imply.
      • by Salsaman ( 141471 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:55AM (#8958831) Homepage
        But you can only make money off IP if you actually have some in the first place. Lets see now, SCO has:

        - no patents
        - no copyright claims on Linux (the kernel has been certified free of copyright infringement, SCO have failed to show even a single line of copied code, despite being ordered twice to do so by the court)
        - no trade secrets
        - no trademark issues with Linux

        So what's left for SCO ? Another EV1 stooge ? That should get them another 20K or so. Hardly a good investment considering the millions they are burning on legal fees.

        • what matters to 'outsiders' is whether they have a *chance* of winning a court case, not whether they have any real ip.

          Since the courts are known to be a version of vegas (where the amount of cash you can burn can stack the deck for or against you) this has (from an investors point of view) some merit.

          The best indicator of how many investors believe that SCO has a chance is it's stock price.

          Meanwhile the evil empire sits back and laughs, whatever the outcome for sco, win or lose they will win.
          • by div_2n ( 525075 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @02:15PM (#8959990)
            That really doesn't make sense either. If what you say is true--that the courts are like Vegas and the money you spend increases your chances--then you would you bet on?

            SCO with about 70-80 million in the bank and a negative cash flow

            or

            IBM that probably has at least 10 to 20 times that and a positive cash flow?

            Seems pretty obvious.
      • by NineNine ( 235196 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:00AM (#8958858)
        From VA Linux's most recent 10Q filing with the SEC [yahoo.com]:
        We rely on a combination of copyright, trademark and trade-secret laws, employee and third-party nondisclosure agreements, and other arrangements to protect our proprietary rights.
        • by Kalak ( 260968 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:17PM (#8959309) Homepage Journal
          There's hardly a for-profit that doesn't do this. Thinkgeek has copyrights, and possibly some patents, Sourceforge has software for sale, and there are probably more examples.

          What you don't see is VA Linux suing people or companies while refusing to show what they are suing over. It's a *business* afterall. Businesses can be good citizens, or bad bullies (and shades in between). Just because VA Linux uses NDAs (standard in the industry), copyright and patents (they sell stuff afterall) and trade-secrets (to protect what they are working on) does not mean they are SCO, or even in their ball park. The develop and deliver more products than lawsuits.

          Heck, I'm using /. and the only thing they get out of me are page views and the occasional click through on an ad. Thinkgeek has gotten my money though - some of those shirts are just too good to not wear to work and "you will be replaced by a small shell script" has become a popular phrase where I work. Hardly sounds like a evil company, but one that does make their money off of IP.
      • by localman ( 111171 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:38AM (#8959108) Homepage
        They said they want to make money off of IP. I'm sure that they would much rather just collect license fees than have to sue,

        And that, though legal and perfectly reasonable sounding, is the root of the problem. Companies that did not invent anything and have no intent of producing a useful product are gobbling up patent slips and collecting license fees or firing of C&D's. It is certainly an abuse of the intent, if not the letter of IP law.

        If patent reform isn't possible now, at least investors and other companies should blacklist these bully corporations.

        Unisys, SCO, Forgent, Rambus... interesting how the ones most famous for this garbage produce nothing particularly useful. Is this the type of thing the founding fathers were trying to encourage when they set up patents in the first place?

        Cheers.
        • Companies that did not invent anything and have no intent of producing a useful product are gobbling up patent slips and collecting license fees or firing of C&D's.

          I'm not sure this is such a good idea. A world in which patents have value but are not transferrable would strongly penalize hobbyists and small inventors. These people may patent a good idea, and either not recognize its importance or not be willing to dedicate their life to running a business, so the idea would never make it to market.
          • by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @02:05PM (#8959925)
            In my opinion the more important issue is submarine patents

            Even more important is the fact that patents are being granted for trivial things undeserving of a patent. As example: anything software related. Software is an evolutionary technology -- all improvements to the state of the art are, by themselves, merely logical next steps and not true innovation. Implementation is where the software industry innovates, and that is covered by copyright. The reasons why patents should not be granted for software are much the same reasons why patents are not allowed for mathematics or styles of literature, art, and music.
      • Deception? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SeinJunkie ( 751833 ) <seinjunkie@gmail.com> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:01PM (#8959233) Homepage

        From McGrath:

        "We're looking for the best return we can, and we think the focus should be on IP licensing (and enforcement)."

        I think that statement (esp. adding "enforcement" to it) as well as this summary of the NY Times article by the author caused the OP to make the allegations.

        ... company executives were spending too much time and energy "in publicity and debate" with open source advocates about Linux, rather than focusing on legal strategy.

        According to those two statements, one could conclude that legal action is all Baystar is looking for.

      • by AmericanInKiev ( 453362 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @03:44PM (#8960464) Homepage
        It's not like they are saying - This is our IP - you have to license it to use it.

        They are Saying - we may or may not have some IP which may or may not be included in the car you drive, the air you breathe, and weed you smoke.

        We have no intention of intentifying the IP - but we have huge plans on suing everything that moves and see how many suckers we can shake out of the sucker tree.

        The MO seems to be a play on the empirical fact that settling is often cheaper than fighting and winning.

        This is predictable.

        The slogan - we do not negotiate with terrorists - means sure it ALWAYS easiest to negotiate - but these things build on themselves.

        The end game of capitulation means leveraging the benefits of capitulation.

        AIK
  • Maybe ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Udo Schmitz ( 738216 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:29AM (#8958428) Journal
    Hmmm, I should contact them. Maybe they are interested in my bridge selling business too ...
    • ...no one is going to sell my bridge!!! I've spent a good deal of time making a nice home under here. Grrr... ;P
    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:23AM (#8958687)
      Dear Mr. Schmitz:

      On behalf of SCO, I must ask to cease and desist with your bridge selling business. SCO has both patented and copyrighted all bridges and is the well known originator of bridges, fountain of youths, and unicorns.

      If you do not cease, SCO will be forced to take legal action againt you. To avoid all legal entanglements, you may license bridge selling from us for the low price of $699.

      Sincerely,
      David Boies

      • by stevey ( 64018 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:08PM (#8959268) Homepage

        Dear David Boies

        On Behalf of SCO, I must ask you to cease and desist with your attempts to cease and desist others.

        Your cease and desist letters appear to have remarkable simularties with the proprietry and copyrighted cease and desist letters we produce.

        We are willing to reveal exact line numbers and phrases in common to any interested third parties under the terms of an NDA.

        If you do not cease, SCO will be forced to take legal action against you. To avoid all legal entanglements you may license our IP at a low price of $699 per single page cease and desist, or $1400 for double paged letters.

        Sincerly,

        Steve Kemp

  • Great Plan (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jedi1USA ( 145452 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:30AM (#8958429)
    No really....If that's their best Asset, They will go away that much faster.

    Best plan evar!

  • Dark Side.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by routerwhore ( 552333 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:30AM (#8958430) Homepage
    It's like watching Darth Vader turn evil and become the dark side as it reveals its true intentions. Soon they will become another geek household name to focus angst and hate against like MS and SCO.
  • by edheler ( 715806 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:30AM (#8958435)
    CNN is carrying a story [cnn.com] about one of the new investors in SCO, BayStar Capital Management [baystarcapital.com], which wants SCO to "shake up its management and sharpen its focus on the potentially lucrative legal fight" and "spend less money on its Unix products." One has to wonder what BayStar is expecting as a reaction to their being so... blunt.
    • by juuri ( 7678 )
      Did you even read the first four or five words of the story summary before posting?
    • by DaHat ( 247651 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:46AM (#8958510)
      I saw that CNN story yesterday and was shocked that it hadn't appeared on Slashdot yet. I was even more surprised to see Groklaw talking about that news since Thursday.

      There is a key aspect of this Slashdot story... BayStar has asked for its money back unless SCO fixes a few things, including its management. That's they key here I think, when BayStar gets nervous with how SCO is proceeding and they want things to change or else.

      Here's hoping Darl gets ousted.
    • SCO Unix is behind the times and they know they're losing customers to Linux, Sun and Microsoft. So instead of being creative and coming up with new products they've decided to take the easier strategy of suing their competitors to syphon off some of their hard earned cash.
    • Here's the thing about Baystar *AND* RBC. They can't win. They know they were fooled. But they love money, so they can't now say "We were stupid, we fucked up...SCO has no case" because they'd be out a pantload of money. So instead they make up some clap track about the management, but the lawsuits still good ;-) They know they're phucked.

      I personally find their situation halarious (read: shit out of luck), and very fitting for companies wishing to profit from frivilous lawsuits.

    • One has to wonder what BayStar is expecting as a reaction to their being so... blunt.

      They aren't being blunt in any way that Darl McBride hasn't been blut before. BayStar probably expects that the market takes SCO's intellectual property claims more seriously, thereby boosting the value of their investment. Remember, they don't care about being liked, they care about money.

      Whether BayStar knows how unfounded SCO's IP claims actually are and they are just using it, or whether they actually think that SC
  • by osewa77 ( 603622 ) <naijasms@NOspaM.gmail.com> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:31AM (#8958442) Homepage
    Let's face it, business is about money. If some companies believe in "doing no evil", it's simply because, in the opinion of the founders/managers, "doing no evil" is a good way to make money. On the long term, though, pissing everybody off is probably not a viable business strategy. Sometimes you work yourself into a corner (like SCO has) and you keep making the wrong decisions in the hope that everything will turn out fine in the end.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:14AM (#8958947)
      Companies are founded by *real people*, people like you and me. Sometimes, these people have morals they consider more important than making money. It's been known to happen.

      It won't happen any more once the company is public, but that's another story.
    • Sometimes you have owners who care about the business (ad in product and customers) first and about the money second. As long as they can keep the company profitable, they can continue to do things as they like. Only public companies where a large fraction of shares is traded on open markets are forced to make money at all costs.
    • Let's face it, business is about money. If some companies believe in "doing no evil", it's simply because, in the opinion of the founders/managers, "doing no evil" is a good way to make money.

      Let's face it, life is about pleasure. If some individual believes in "doing no evil", it's simply because, in the opinion of the individual's intellect, "doing no evil" is a good way to make pleasure. On the long term, pissing everybody off is probably not a viable pleasure strategy.

      Seems like a good summary to me

  • See also. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eddy ( 18759 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:32AM (#8958448) Homepage Journal

    Investor softens stand on SCO [sltrib.com]

    "First on BayStar's list is new top-level management, a directive that sources privately confirmed called for the resignation or reassignment of Darl McBride, SCO's outspoken, occasionally vitriolic president and chief executive."

    Interpretation: BayStar wants McDarling gone because his big mouth is sinking the ship.

    • Re:See also. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Orgazmus ( 761208 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:39AM (#8958482)
      Thats funny.
      When the slashdot crowd are actually starting to like Darl for sinking the ship, THEN its a good idea to get rid of him.
      • by eddy ( 18759 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:56AM (#8958560) Homepage Journal

        >When the slashdot crowd are actually starting to like Darl for sinking the ship, THEN its a good idea to get rid of him.

        Not only is McBride our top pick for steering SCO into the ground (taking the investors with him) by using his large mouth to talk about "millions of lines of literal copying" that they have again failed to identify -- thereby again failing to comply to the court order to be specific (the next hearing will be very interesting. Will IBM finally ask for sanctions, or are they just too nice for that? :-) -- but he's also raiding the SCO coffers all by himself, lifting $968,000 out of the company last year! Almost a million dollars in salary+bonus from a business that's a COMPLETE FAILURE! Well, I guess it's not a complete failure if you count the core business as being 'stock scams', but let's just pretend they're a litigation company instead.

        McBride, we're on your side! Don't step down now -- You've got to ride this out (...and into that orange jumpsuit...).

        • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:00AM (#8958577) Journal
          Darl will never end up in jail over this. CEOs almost *never* go to jail for what their companies do. I was a little hopeful about fraud suits early on, but it looks like that isn't going to happen.

          I agree that McBride's screwups have helped things immensely.
          • Frankly I see Darl going to a rubber room and not to a prison cell.
            Come on he is clearly nuts.
            On the brighter side odds are pretty good he will never work again after this.
            Right now the investment group are going to have to answer for the money the blew on this nut case. So they are in deep as well

            In late breaking news Girl Scouts a threat to malls http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/article/0,165 1,TCP_16736_2821700,00.html
    • Re:See also. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by El_Ge_Ex ( 218107 )
      Nah, they want him out because they believed every word he said and now realize their folly. ...didn't see that coming???....

      -B
      • Re:See also. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by eddy ( 18759 )

        I disagree. If you read the articles where BayStar speak out, you'll see that they're still believers -- unless they're lying about being believers for some reason, but that's just a little too tinfoil-hatty for me this time.

        No, I actually think they're mad because McBride spends all his time travelling the world, with his big mouth, a big mouth that's hurting their chances (as it were) in court, and also all this talk about rebuilding the "core UNIX business".. BayStar wants none of that crap (and neithe

        • Re:See also. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by WhiteWolf666 ( 145211 ) <{sherwin} {at} {amiran.us}> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:53AM (#8958816) Homepage Journal
          I don't think that BayStar believes.

          They are an investment fund.

          They can't exactly say: "Uhh . . . . We screwed up. SCOX is a waste of money. They don't have anything, and they have never had anything."

          They invest with OPM (other people's money) after all.
          Instead, in a fairly civilized and classy fashion, Baystar says:
          "SCOX has violated our agreement. We don't think that SCOX is approaching this case in the correct fashion. Of course, if they had done what we had told them to, they would be wildly succesful, but since they haven't we want our money back, and then we should go our seperate ways. Unless, of course, they make these [impossible] changes, after all, we aren't bad guys"
        • If you read the articles where BayStar speak out, you'll see that they're still believers -- unless they're lying about being believers for some reason, but that's just a little too tinfoil-hatty for me this time.

          <tinfoil^>

          This is a good way for MS to attempt to dis-associate themselves from this mess by having BayStar *appear* to *only* be in it for IP reasons. Baystar could be left to hang down the road also.

          </tinfoil^>

  • RBE (Score:5, Informative)

    by Aussie ( 10167 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:32AM (#8958450) Journal
    Isn't RBE in for 30 million. thats more than Baystar.
    How can Baystar be the "biggest investor" ?
    • make that RBC.
    • by mfh ( 56 )
      I thought BayStar was in for the same ammt as RBC. Dunno, but the RBC is the largest earner in Canada. One year they made about $4bil profit... and I saw a kid pan-handling in front of one of the RBC branches. *sigh*
      • Re:Same? (Score:5, Informative)

        by gmack ( 197796 ) <gmack@noSpAM.innerfire.net> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:54AM (#8958544) Homepage Journal
        Baystar chipped in $20 Million and RBC chipped in $30 million.

        PS. As for the pan handler a good location can make them $30+ an hour on a good day here in Montreal And that's tax free. Don't feel sorry for his/her lack of income.. feel sorry about whatever addiction it's all blown on.
        • In Kingston, Ontario (where I am) most pan-handlers are high school students cutting class, so the money would certainly go to partying of some kind. You can tell when pan-handlers from elsewhere come here to try and earn... they're broke as hell. I would think the most money anyone could make pan-handling in Kingston would be about $5/hr, during peak times.
          • Kingston (where I am, too) has atrocious vagrancy problems, not totally unrelated to the centralization of federal prisons in the area, and lack of sustainable industry.

            In the summer the tourist industry is focused around Princess and the downtown area, and I gather it's possible to do fairly well pan-handling, or playing music on the street. It is non-taxable income, so $5/hr is really equivalent to $8/hr working, and I'd think that'd be a low ballpark figure for the summer (albeit perhaps a bit high for
            • > Kingston (where I am, too) has atrocious vagrancy problems

              I would have to agree. It's really sad.

              > not totally unrelated to the centralization of federal prisons in the area

              My experience is that most ex-cons flee the city after being released, because they don't wish to stick around. I guess some stay, but for the most part they depart.

              > lack of sustainable industry.

              This is likely the real problem. Kingston's ecconomy is terrible, due mostly to the corruption of city officials, from wha
  • going down (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sv-Manowar ( 772313 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:33AM (#8958460) Homepage Journal
    April 21, 2004: SCO hires BertYoung as chief financial officer to replace RobertBench. Young's previous experience includes stints as CFO and COO of dot-bomb archetype marchFIRST. Obviously need a financial officer who will get them out of the trouble they have got themselves into Read more - http://sco.iwethey.org/
  • Unbelievable! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by haxeh ( 766837 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:37AM (#8958476)
    But not nearly as unbelievable as it sounds. Like any 'good' software company, they believe their value lies in their IP, which it does. SCO seems to feel that people have infringed on their IP significantly enough for them to make a business out of taking money back from those whole 'stole' from them.

    This in itself isn't really that horrible, because they're just updating their business model to profit off of all the supposed stealing thats been going on. That is, if they could somehow get licensing fees from everyone running linux, that'd be a viable business.

    Of course, because it's SCO, no one really stole anything (as far as we can tell). And that's what makes them evil: making false accusations about infringement to drive stock price up, not pursuing what is rightfully theirs under the law.

    The reaction shouldn't be "omg! software company thinks their IP is valuable!" it should be "omg! software company is making outrageous claims about what they own!"
    • Re:Unbelievable! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dollargonzo ( 519030 )
      another note: in many a software company, most of the money is made off of renewed run-time licenses, not sales or support. unless you are selling software that joe sixpack needs, you are going to have a few big customers who keep you alive from year to year and then a bunch of smaller fish that generate some extra revenue. valuing your IP is one of the few ways to make money in the industry. sure, there exist a few OSS companies that manage after many years to break even, but these are exception, not the r
      • in many a software company, most of the money is made off of renewed run-time licenses, not sales or support.

        *cough*Forgent [slashdot.org]*cough*

        Seriously, getting your income solely from licensing and suing the dickens out of others is all that's left once lack of innovation and/or vendor-lock take hold. It puts real progress squarely in the court of GPL. Just MHO as a user.
  • by ecalkin ( 468811 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:37AM (#8958478)
    may be against Baystar. i would assume that a capital investment company, especially one that invests in IP would do a complete and comprehensive evaluation of what they are investing in. which leads me to this: SCO painted a picture with *so* much recovery (lawsuit/licensing revenue) that it blinded them to the reality of situation.

    one hopes that when the countersuits start flying that baystar is named as a defendant right under sco.

    eric
    • "i would assume that a capital investment company, especially one that invests in IP would do a complete and comprehensive evaluation of what they are investing in"

      Why would you expect this after seeing investors pour money into dot.coms without checking them out just a few years ago? Many investors will throw money at whwtever they think the latest "Hot Thing" (TM) is without a second thought, and IP lawsiuts seem to be the latest "Hot Thing" (TM).
    • The problem is they painted such a big picture that Baystar only wants that bg picture. Baystar wants SCO only to invest in IP stuff. You know the point where SCO colect $20,000 in revnue for 3.4 million in exspenses. you know where when someone actually admitted that they bought a license they were bullied and lost business.

      Yes I know EV1 gained customers that quarter, then again their competitors gained even more, and EV1 had just opened a new win2k3 datacenter.
  • by mfh ( 56 )
    > they believe SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits against Linux users and vendors

    This should likely only say vendors. Vendors using Linux are ripe for the picking, right Darl? Ah, but potential is never quite the same as reality, and that's the problem with SCO's claims... they are rooted in a fantasy.
  • My God! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Pan T. Hose ( 707794 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:39AM (#8958485) Homepage Journal
    My God! SCO's Biggest Investor Admits It Loves IP Lawsuits?! I am shocked! Shocked, I say!
  • Simple economics (Score:2, Insightful)

    by truG33k ( 740973 )
    They are only thinking of one factor here, return on investment. Simple economic theory is to put your money where it will grow the fastest. I mean really, who would by SCO!!! BayStar is just looking to get as much money as it can from a bad investment before it goes under, nothing more.

    The flip side to this coin is that SCO might actually think that they have one friend in this fight, when actually, they trying to cover their own ass[ets]
  • by tiny69 ( 34486 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:39AM (#8958490) Homepage Journal
    A Baystar Capital spokesperson has finally admitted, directly and on the record to NewsForge reporter Chris Preimesberger, that they believe SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits against Linux users and vendors. 'We're looking for the best return we can, and we think the focus should be on IP licensing (and enforcement),' said BayStar spokesman Bob McGrath.
    That might be true if SCO actually owned something in UNIX that they could enforce. But Novell owns the copyrights, The Open Group owns the trademark, and SCO doesn't hold any patents on UNIX. Not to mention that 95% of the profits from licensing enforcement that they currently do goes directly to Novell.
    • the copyrights to UNIX System V. Not as far as Linux is concerned, anyways.

      I suppose there is a chance that IBM could be found liable for breaking some contract provision they had with SCO over UNIX code. Perhaps some of that code may have even found its way illegally into Linux (although absolutely zero proof has been presented as yet).

      The bottom line is that SCO will never see Linux users pay licensing fees to them for their IP because the WHOLE POINT of free software that the code is free! If any co
  • You're fired! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by malia8888 ( 646496 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:43AM (#8958502)
    From the article: BayStar Capital of Larkspur, Calif., a private hedge fund which invested $20 million in the SCO Group last October and then called the loan back last week, told NewsForge Thursday that it doesn't believe SCO's senior management is experienced enough in IT litigation to fully reap the financial benefits from the company's intellectual property.

    Sounds like there is somebody in senior managment who is just not suing fast enough or well enough to suit Baystar Capital. It is an odd state of affairs when a company, other than a law firm's, most important product is law suits. That's messed up, dudes. :P

  • We find out that Microsoft's investors like profits.

    Duh.

    Its all SCO has. The lawsuits are all they have left.

    +
  • Not bad for a company that sounds like a cross between a David Hasselhoff TV show and a Ford minivan. Is it named after Frisco Bay, or located in the Frisco area?
  • by bmiller949 ( 681252 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:49AM (#8958526)
    I think they should move from SCO to the Red Cross. The Red Cross could use someone who could miraculously get blood out of a turnip.

  • by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:49AM (#8958527) Homepage Journal
    ...is the problem with capitalism. The theory behind it is that when everyone chooses an optimally greedy strategy, society as a whole benefits. But you have cases like this where society clearly does not benefit, and countless hours of everyone's time are wasted. If the legal system were perfect, perhaps, then everything would be fine. But in practice it never is. My point is that people should be eternally vigilant rather than have blind faith in the system, which I perceive many Americans to have. And oh, another observation, don't confuse capitalism with the free market; the latter is unconditionally good, but the former is a double edged sword and needs a lot of checks and balances.
    • There are a few cases in which capitalsm does not work, true. But in case you haven't noticed, the most capitalistic societies in the world are also the most successful, and their people tend to have the highest standards of living. Overall, Capitalism has been shown throughout history to be a huge success.
  • by Extra Ketchup ( 696009 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:50AM (#8958528) Homepage
    The fact that Baystar wants to "bet" so much money on a case that is not just up in the air, but leaning strongly in favor of IBM and Linux users, makes me think Baystar would be just as far ahead to take their 20M to Vegas and roll the dice.

    Now that they've placed their bet, they should lose it. Nobody places a bet on a horse and then asks for their money back halfway through the race just because the horse is lame and the jockey is, well, Daryl McBride :-)

    -EK

    Disclaimer - I don't gamble, nor do I promote gambling
  • No shocker (Score:5, Insightful)

    by A.T. Hun ( 192737 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:51AM (#8958532)
    There is nothing else that SCO has that is even remotely valuable. Nobody is going to want their outdated Unix anymore, especially since they'd be sued if they even looked cross-eyed at Linux. Suing your customers tends to drop ye olde customer satisfaction rating down quite a bit. The only way BayStar will come close to recouping their $20 million is if SCO survives long enough to win its suits. Both of those prospects are dubious at best. I think the big thing that BayStar (and others) will be learning is not to take investment advice from Microsoft.
  • Any mistake (Score:2, Interesting)

    by southern ( 22565 )
    Any public mistake a hedge fund makes, usally means the end to the hedge fund. Their multimillion dollar investors won't stand for this and will start moving their money to one of the many other hedge funds.

    Hedge funds are in the business of making money, and I would bet the Baystar has same amount of money invested in Open Source companies.

    Hedge Fund don't lose money, they just make less.

  • by RecoveredMarketroid ( 569802 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @09:56AM (#8958558)
    Now, I'm ABSOLUTELY not a fan of SCO's. But the basic IDEA expressed here is not such a strange one. Essentially, a company has two choices:
    1. Try to make money off that which you own and which is already developed, or
    2. Try to develop new profitable products/technology.

    Option 2 is expensive and risky by comparison. Sure, you want to develop new products, but if you are not milking what you can out of the existing ones, then there is no point in developing new ones! Management is being (criminally) negligent if it doesn't pursue option 1. LOTS of companies make money this way by licensing technology. If SCO does have a basis (or management believes it has a basis) for these claims, then management has an obligation to pursue this course.

    The really interesting points here, however, are:

    • That they are explicitly stating they believe SCO is incapable of surviving by option 2!
    • Many non-technical people don't understand what a crock SCO's case appears to be. While the investors may just be cynical/evil, it seems quite possible that the they BELIEVE that SCO's IP is legitimately being violated. (Perhaps, after the lawsuits fail, the investors may sue members of management for misrepresentation?)
  • by Thunderstruck ( 210399 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:01AM (#8958579)
    What are the social and legal effects of this kind of business going to create? In the unlikely event that SCO were to win big money for BayStar, other groups will begin to seek similar "investments." I see a progression here:

    1. Mutual funds and VC groups begin to seek out luctrative litigation opportunities.

    2. People begin to invest in these groups, because of the high rate of return. Skilled lawyers scour the land for untapped "violations" or negligence.

    3. The well begins to dry up. Investors need to keep the cash flowing in. but the only targets left don't carry enough cash to make them good targets. So they lobby the Federal Government to mandate the remaining targets to carry insurance.

    4. The risk is spread out, and we all pay more to keep BayStar's numbers in the black... with no social benefit whatsoever.

    5. Repeat, industry by industry.
  • by gtoomey ( 528943 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:01AM (#8958581)
    If you're a SCO customer like DaimlerChrysler and dont buy a linux licence, you get sued buy SCO and end up in a lawsuit.

    But if you buy a linux licence like EV1 did, you get a subpoena by IBM, and end up in a lawsuit.

    MORAL: Stay away from the Litigous Bastards [sco.com]

  • by weave ( 48069 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:10AM (#8958613) Journal
    The lawsuit is all about how IBM has allegedly caused great harm to SCO's Unix business, so they sue to recover damages. But Baystar tells them they have no real Unix business left anyway and should shut it down, but continue to sue anyway.

    Almost every legal analyst says SCO chances to win are slim to none, yet for some reason, people are still investing in this stock. They'd have equal risk but higher payoff potential if they'd sink their money into the Powerball lottery.

  • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:17AM (#8958657) Homepage
    Given that this is SCO, I imagine they'll:
    a) Drop the current charges against IBM.
    b) Make some new and even more vague charges.
    c) Raise lawsuit to 10 billion dollars.

    While SCO may be able to scare away people from switching to Linux, with all the defense funds that have been popping up, I strongly doubt they'll be able to scare any current users into licencing their IP. Baystar will never see any money from it.

    The only one laughing all the way to the bank is Microsoft. I'm sure they love this spin from Baystar "This Linux lawsuit is what has value! Screw the rest, this is the goldmine" when in fact, it's a bloody weak card against a giant in IP. The remaining business is simply even worse.

    Kjella
  • by jamonterrell ( 517500 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @10:28AM (#8958713)
    It seems like anyone's not liking of criminal mismanagement and Pump-And-Dump rules would trump their like of IP lawsuits...

    I wonder if they'll let Darl share cells with Martha Stewart?
  • Now if only SCO can either create or acquire something of value to license, they'll be able to pull it off...
  • by segfault_0 ( 181690 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:24AM (#8959009)
    I personally find it relieving to see truth start to poke its head into play. This is why IBMs game plan is so strong, patience is a virtue, and they are execizing their power in a calm and controlled fashion. The key to a good lie is being able to use the lie and then put it behind you; SCOs lies and fabrications can't stand up to the light of this kind of media attention forever and now we see the curtain coming down. I dont think they realized how difficult continued deception can really be.
  • by bo0ork ( 698470 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:29AM (#8959046)
    Used to be, checking out SCOX on nasdaq would show two firms with conflicting recommendations. Niether were anonymous, though I can't recall which ones... One recommended "Buy", and another one "Sell". Now, only one firm recommends anything, and that's a "Sell". And that one have requested anonymity.

    I wonder why they want to be anonymous? The recommendation. [nasdaq.com]

  • Really? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by miffo.swe ( 547642 ) <daniel@hedblom.gmail@com> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:49AM (#8959170) Homepage Journal
    Isnt it a bit strange to have a company litigating for a business (Laywers included)? What overall value does a litigation bring to society? I would much prefer fines and other punishments because todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone. There is something fundamentally wrong if you can make more money by litigating than by producing goods and services.

    It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.
    • by werdna ( 39029 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:30PM (#8959403) Journal
      todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone

      With all due respect,WTF are you talking about? What does it mean to "sue for justice?" In modern society, we have two forms of litigation, criminal and civil. In criminal litigation, society sues through its government to seek remedies against those who commit a crime. Those remedies take the form of incarceration and fines. In civil litigation, individuals sue for remedies due to economic harms caused by the conduct of another. Remedies are either legal (that is, money damages), or equitable (that is, an injunction from further conduct). The later is much rarer, mostly because litigation is too expensive to justify the cost of seeking only an injunction.

      In that sense, why are you whining about people suing for money? That is, in fact, the ONLY reason to sue -- it is the only remedy the court has to give at the end of the day. Nothing else would make any economic sense.

      It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.

      You make the strongest argument against your hypothesis with this conclusion. As you have observed, civil litigation has survived as a practice in every modern society on Earth today. People continue to invest in litigation, both asserting and defending, because it serves an economic purpose to do so.

      It does not hurt the overall economy therefore, which is why it has survived as a system.

      The bottom line, really, is to compare the presence of civil litigation
  • by Goo.cc ( 687626 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:50PM (#8959520)
    The article has a quote where Baystar "told NewsForge Thursday that it doesn't believe SCO's senior management is experienced enough in IT litigation to fully reap the financial benefits from the company's intellectual property." The problem is, SCO doesn't really own any IP from what I have seen thus far.

    They do not own the copyrights to the Unix source code, as that was explicitly exempted in the agreement between Novel and old-SCO. They do not own the specifications for Unix, which is now a public standard known as Posix. They do not even own the Unix trademark, which is owned by the Open Group.

    It seems to me that all they really own is the abililty to license the Unix code that belongs to Novell, which is why they have to pay Novell a portition of the licensing fees they collect. The fact that Novell has the ability to override licensing decisions made by SCO (such as trying to void IBM's license in regards to AIX) indicates to me who is really in charge.

    Personally, I hope Baystar suffers a huge loss for their decision to back such a stupid lawsuit.
  • by Baumi ( 148744 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:51PM (#8959525) Homepage
    Someone should spend the time to develop an RFC for a desperatly needed protocol: Lawsuit-over-IP

    Baumi
  • Hah (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sheepdot ( 211478 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @01:03PM (#8959582) Journal
    Darl McBride is the best thing to happen to Open Source.

    Only problem is that it will still be a year or so before we realize just how great of a service he is/was to us.
  • by IBitOBear ( 410965 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @03:58PM (#8960538) Homepage Journal
    Die In A Fire

    And so should each of their executives separately or all together.

    People who just want to rub strangers together in the hopes that money will fall out are the kinds of parasties on humantiy that really need to exit the gene-pool.

    Those who are proud of their position and goals in this respect need to willfully, and of their own violation, seek and recover the clearly present and valuable "gold like substance that marketers insist will be good for the economy" from within the heart of any really nice hot flame. They do, after all, seem to so enjoy the heat and entropy they try to extract from anything useful that comes near them.

    They should do this dressed only in a festive goat skin, or perhaps the flesh of their offspring, equipped with only a cheap aluminium spoon.

    First one out with a full jar of plasma gets an executive bonus, a writeup in CIO magazine, and a seat on a board of directors...

A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable. -- Thomas Jefferson

Working...