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Intel Government The Courts News

Japanese Government Raids Intel Tokyo Offices 155

Posted by michael from the hands-up-or-the-cpu-gets-it dept.
mordicus writes "Reuters is reporting that Japanese Trade Officials have raided Intel's Japan Offices. From the article: 'Japan's fair trade watchdog raided the offices of Intel Corp's Japanese unit on Thursday and a government source in Tokyo said the chip giant is suspected of violating antitrust laws.' Japan seems to be rather vigilant in enforcing its antitrust legislation. Microsoft's Japanese unit was target of a similar operation less than two months ago."
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Japanese Government Raids Intel Tokyo Offices More

Japanese Government Raids Intel Tokyo Offices

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  • Two down... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by JosKarith ( 757063 )
    Microsoft last month, Intel now.
    So, who's for the chop in May then?

  • Yikes! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Knight Thrasher ( 766792 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:57AM (#8803556) Journal
    What's their reasoning, I wonder? They think Intel is stealing processor stuff from Nintendo?

    • Re:Yikes! (Score:5, Funny)

      by WormholeFiend ( 674934 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:01AM (#8803606)
      Prolly not.

      I bet that this unit just needed new computers, and didnt have the budget to buy them.

    • Re:Yikes! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:03AM (#8803624)
      Intel has been trying to stop Japanese OEMs from using AMD chips.

      • Re:Yikes! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by ThisIsFred ( 705426 )
        Oh, well that makes sense. Otherwise I'd have see the humor in the fact that the Japanese government is protecting industries that beat Intel in the past by flooding the RAM chip industry at a loss, then jacking up the price after the competitors were eliminated.

        Anyway, go AMD!

        • Re:Yikes! (Score:3, Informative)

          by Slack3r78 ( 596506 )
          I have a feeling you're thinking of the South Korean government who was backing Hynix with multi-billion dollar subsidies. Both the US and EU hit Hynix cheaps with a substantial tariff last summer, which drove up the price of DDR to a point which it's only just now starting to recover from.

    • Re:Yikes! (Score:4, Funny)

      by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) <SatanicpuppyNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:16AM (#8803743) Journal
      Amusing, since the japanese have a good number of monopolies of their own. I wonder if they raid themselves?

      Still I can't look down on someone who raids microsoft AND intel.

      • Unlike a lot... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by zogger ( 617870 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:31AM (#8803925) Homepage Journal
        ...of other nations, Japan makes no secret of the fact that they are a highly nationalistic country, and that they will do whatever it takes to protect their markets. Most other western industrialised nations are more fragmented and disingenous about it. Japan since WW2 and their rebuilding, sees economics as just another form of warfare basically, and acvts accordingly. They are polite about it, but ruthless. They are also really up the creek with the yen and the dollar, and are exploring different ways to ease the burden of supporting a still grossly over valued dollar. They have too many investments tied to it, but realise they needed major serious diversification like years ago, and are in max overdrive to rectify what to them is a national economic disaster in the making if it's not addressed past the lip service level. Same thing in the US, just we have.... stupider central bankers. They thought that they could keep pushing funny bux forever, like no one would ever notice. another subject there, but that is happening as well.

        There's probably also a lot of other internal political action (politics=money, like any other place) going on around this, but I don't follow their internal affairs adequately enough to comment on it to any significant degree.

        As an aside,I am also highly surprised that in this day and age that *any* intel chips get used in Japan.
        • As an aside,I am also highly surprised that in this day and age that *any* intel chips get used in Japan.

          The reason for this is?? Just curious.

      • Japan has a lot of competing highly vertically integrated companies, but do they really have a lot of monopolies? I'm ignorant of that.
    • Not until the new bugs go active.

  • Japan vigilant? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by James Lewis ( 641198 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:59AM (#8803582)
    "Japan seems to be rather vigilant in enforcing its antitrust legislation."

    Well, at least they have been against American companies.

    • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:4, Funny)

      by bcolflesh ( 710514 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:02AM (#8803610) Homepage
      Exactly - the Yakuza, err Japanese Government don't really care to have competition - so Intel gets it's pinky cut off.

    • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:05AM (#8803645)
      Do you know any Japanese company which has a >80% worldwide marketshare and has been abusing it?

      • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:5, Funny)

        by bcolflesh ( 710514 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:08AM (#8803673) Homepage
        Hello Kitty?

      • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The problem with Japanese companies is that you never know exactly who owns what. In this country they never go by their parent name. Ever heard of Matsushita? Well they own Panasonic. So I couldn't tell you if they had a monopoly in something or not. You'd be amazed how much of Japanese business comes down to just a few families - like the Moris [time.com].
      • Matsushita Industries comes pretty close.

      • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:5, Informative)

        by K-Man ( 4117 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:22PM (#8804538)
        The Japanese gained over 80% market share for DRAM in the 80's, and then a mysterious fire destroyed a glue factory that was needed for some aspect of production. Alas, production dropped. DRAM prices went through the roof, and stayed that way until the Koreans broke the monopoly in the 90's.

        But there was no hint of wrongdoing. Would you like some whale sushi?
        • The fire at the resin plant was a total smoke-screen, it had a negligible effect on production or costs.

          The DRAM shortage that occured at that time had a LOT of reasons associated with it, but the short version is that it all boiled down to supply and demand. Despite having a large chunk of the international DRAM market, none of the companies were making any money because prices were so low. So, to try and fix this, they decided to constrain the supply a bit. Supply goes down while demand was going up a

      • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 )
        Do you know any Japanese company which has a >80% worldwide marketshare and has been abusing it?

        Sony, Matsushita and Mitsubishi might count, they each have a huge corner in some market somewhere and have been pretty beligerent at times.
        • But there are lots of companies that make the products that those companies make. They may be huge, and sometimes beligerent, but they aren't monopolies. Of course, I don't think Intel is a monopoly either, not since AMD became a competitive firm, and not with the recent revival of chipmaking at IBM.

    • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:21AM (#8803812)
      I suspect that this 'raid' is mostly political. Japan historically has vastly different standards between what Japanese companies can do and what foreign companies can do in Japan. If there is ever a question of whether to forward the interests of a Japanese company or apply the law as written fairly when such a situation would benefit the foreign company, the Japanese government will always support the local team.
      Check out the dozens of books written about Japanese business-government practices with American companies in the 1980s.
      With all respect due, I don't see how anyone could use the words 'Japanese anti-trust law' together seriously unless they are referring to a government-keiretsu coalition to destory a foreign company and assign their market to a Japanese concern. There's just too much history to suggest otherwise.

      • Not just them (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        If a Japanese company had a position in the US markets as dominant as Microsoft or Intel, I imagine you'd see some action from DC.

      • Re:Japan vigilant? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Cassius105 ( 623098 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:32AM (#8803936)
        This is the same for any country really

        thats why MS got off lightly in the american anti trust case

        • that's not entirely true.
          they were about to get beaten with a legal baseball bat, then the Bush administration got in, and microsoft asked bush to drop the case and he did, IIRC.

        • No, MS used corrupt politicians and bribes in the form of campaign contributions. The japanese are very clear that the government and buisness work together. Japan is the only successful communist country. (Communism does not actually imply totalitarianism).
    • Exactly, I don't see how Japan, with it's Keiretsu mega-corporations, could be considered to be exactly fair in regards to anti-trust.

      Literally a handful of companies own nearly everything in Japan, it's much, much worse than what the hippy-types say what's wrong with corporate America.


    • I did not know that AMD is a Japanese company ;-)

      Are any activities against American company in foreign country considered unfair, even when the purpose is to protect another American companies' rights?

  • Read between the line ... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "You should do more manufacturing in Japan."

    "You should have these new Japanese employees contribute money to the (misnamed) Liberal Democratic Party".

  • Raid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rkane ( 465411 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:02AM (#8803619) Homepage Journal
    Is it just me, or does anyone else think they might have chosen a more descriptive word for what happened? When I think of a raid, I think of things like a drug bust where they bang down the door and come in with guns drawn. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling this "raid" was more like some guys in suits showing up and demanding to speak with certain people and look at certain files, etc. Then again, Intel does hire some sneaky folk, and you never know if they have a stockpile of BFG-9000's in the back room waiting for the FTC to come.
    Needless to say, calling it a "raid" gives the wrong impression (to me).

    • Re:Raid (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Knight Thrasher ( 766792 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:05AM (#8803646) Journal
      Raids typically DO include officers, in and out of uniform, in suits, etc, and they bring enough people to wisk away the employees from data without any potentially incriminating evidence being destroyed. Yeah, it's a raid. Nobody ever said if you're suspected of violating anti-trust laws you have lots of rights. =)
      • "Nobody ever said if you're suspected of violating anti-trust laws you have lots of rights."

        And yet here in America your suposed to have the same rights as anyone else until convicted. At least in theroy.

    • Re:Raid (Score:2, Funny)

      by ThetaKestrel ( 742499 )
      True dat. First thing that came into my mind was "Japanese government raids Intel offices; all they found was ice cream and lemonade."
    • Honestly, I'm hoping it -is- just like a drug bust. The thought of large scary men in black jumpsuits and masks with the latest in hip assult rifles terrifying Intel and Microsoft employees fills me with perverse glee.
      • Unless you're talking about the Sumo or "white devils" varieties in the jumpsuits, I don't think you'd be seeing any large scary men...
    • These kind of raids are very real. Sure guns are holstered but these are real cops and anyone not cooperating will soon learn what being raided really means.

      Do they bust open doors and put people in handcuffs? YES if anyone on site is foolish enough to resist. Usually most people are not. Would you an army of cops for your boss?

      No a raid is precisly what happened. It just won't make a good episode of cops. That is because while collar criminals are smart enough not to wrestle 10 cops with guns.

    • A very common sight on Japanese news is a phalanx of cops wearing suits, carrying armloads of empty cardboard boxes, and streaming into the headquarters of company that did something bad (or emerging carrying armloads of full cardboard boxes). I guess they're very used to companies trying to cover stuff up, and basically want to take a snapshot before they can do so.

      Since the employees usually don't whip out machine guns and battle the police, I think it's an appropriate approach (especially since it conv

  • Other related news (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kpogoda ( 580939 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:07AM (#8803658)
    And in other related news: Microsft, SCO and the RIAA have teamed up to counter this threat by sucking up all of the countries legal and technical resources in a frivolous and long-term legal battle. On a more serious side, it is about time a country gets tough on this subject. My biggest fear is that Japan will not be able to counter these international economic threats. The U.S. government was not even powerful enough to take on Microsoft. Their best bet is to cooperate in the Asian market with OpenSource. Have you ever seen or used Asian versions of Microsoft products? They are even worse than the American counterparts. It is no wonder they are feeling a bit angry. My prediction is that the Asian market is going to give BIG Corporate American business a big surprise in coming years.
    • No, they went through the effort. I just think Micrsoft is the first company in history that the government can not afford to take on in a legal battle.

    • Not Really... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:18AM (#8803779)
      You are wrong if you think any American company is going to march into Japan and tell the Japanese how to run their business. Very wrong!

      The Japanese are known for protecting their own, at any cost, from non-Japanese threats. To say such protectionism a cornerstone [thejapanfaq.com] of their culture is an understatement. Chances are that Intel tried to go John Wayne* on their Japanese suppliers/distributors, and they replied to the threat in their own special way: Using Tokyo to respond for them.

      * - Being an American currently living in Japan, I can say that acting American in a Japanese Business setting is like walking upto the plate, in baseball, with 2 strikes against you.

  • “third world countries” (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Saeed al-Sahaf ( 665390 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:08AM (#8803671) Homepage
    For the most part, American companies have learned they can walk all over "third world countries" (although there are refreshing South American exceptions). Japan used to be such a country. That they are no longer (and haven't been for many many years) in that class and also very nationalistic, it's not surprising that they aren't interested in Intel and Microsoft's monopolistic conduct, especially since they themselves have quite a high-tech economy.

    Unfortunately, many countries are not in the same position to aggravate or turn down Western business, even if in the medium and long run they lose in the deal. For many "third world" countries, short-term existence (and political graft) are the only thing on the radar.

  • Vigilant? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jeroenb ( 125404 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:11AM (#8803702) Homepage
    Japan seems to be rather vigilant in enforcing its antitrust legislation.

    Considering that Microsoft has probably been breaking antitrust laws for 10+ years, I wouldn't call this "vigilant".

  • personally (Score:2, Insightful)

    by SteelRat ( 11640 )
    I think that it is refreshing to see some trustbusting and pricefixing countermeasures in our cosey little global economy.

    you know, more than just obvious corporate welfare, subsidies and pandering. At least the Japanese look after their own a little.

  • Giant robot involved? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Geek_3.3 ( 768699 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:17AM (#8803763)
    From all of the recent /. stories, I imagine a lot of japanese robots doing the raiding...

    That or I watch too much anime. Probably a bit of both.

  • No Knock Raids (Score:4, Funny)

    by DietVanillaPepsi ( 763129 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:19AM (#8803788)
    No-knock raids have been going on in America for quite some time to combat those crazy marijuana and crack users. It's about time that other countries pick up on the value of no-knock raids in taking down corporations that violate anti-trust laws. Had it gone down American-style, someone would have ended up dead.

  • Wonder why they don't raid Sony *wink wink* (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adzoox ( 615327 ) * on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:22AM (#8803818) Journal
    Sony is like the Microsoft of Japan. Billboards dominate the streets. They certainly dominate the media and the advertising dollar there. Interesting how they would "raid" a US company who, to me, seems no more guilty than the dominant player there. It also lends creedance to revenge - seeing as Sony recently made a HUGE order of Transmeta Chips and didn't go with intel version of the ARM processor.

    • Because Sony knows its home turf. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:46AM (#8804133)
      And its laws. American companies get away with far more than they should here. It wouldn't be surprising that they think the rest of the world is just as forgiving. For a company like Sony that has been created in Japan, they know what they can and cannot do inside and out. It makes sense that Japanese companies are not being busted, they probably all realise how harsh it can really be if they mess up. It's a learning lesson American companies will have to learn quickly. Ever wonder why the XBox has done so bad in Japan? It's because Microsoft cant get the leverage they can in other countries without breaking a metric ton of laws. Microsoft in turn has slammed Japan over and over saying they dont need them, etc .. While doing this, they've pretty much lost all respect for any Japanese developers jumping on the XBox2 ship. They've doomed their console hopes because they finally have to play fair somewhere and it bit them in the ass.
    • They don't raid Sony simply because Sony doesn't hold monopolies or break anti-trust laws as blatantly as Microsoft. The national origin of the company is irrelevant. It's not as obvious in the US, but in Japan, while Sony is undeniably huge, they are not the "Microsoft of Japan" and to say so is erroneous. Sure they have a lot of ads, but what it comes down to is that in Japan, for every major area of Sony's business there are valid competitors. And more importantly, Sony doesn't rely on sketchy busin

    • Re:Wonder why they don't raid Sony *wink wink* (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Ubergrendle ( 531719 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:30PM (#8804644) Journal
      Sony doesn't have a monopoly in any segment of domestic products that I can think of. I remember seeing an interview with a head Sony designer and he had a very sobering thought: "Any technology we bring to market will be copied by 2 or 3 major competitors within 6 months. What separates us from our competitors is branding, consistency in design, and a reputation for quality."
      • well this must be a different Sony 'cause all the stuff sold by Sony in the states is Shit, first gen PS2's with a faulty laser, really wtf? optical disk lasers have been around for what? 20 years now and they fuck it up, sony DVD players that randomly select media to fail on, CDRW VCD but not CDR VCD, DVD+R(W) but not DVD-R(W). Cheap-ass white westinghouse Kmart portable CD player outlasting Sony Portables. AND THEY STILL DON'T HAVE A FUCKING DISC RELEASE, is it really that hard to come up with a functiona
    • It seems to me that Sony gets good competition from JVC and Matsushita. I may be missing out on what the parent company of JVC is, I apologize. Maybe Sony is just more marketing oriented than the other large Japanese electronics firms.
    • The difference is these huge Japanese megacorporations are horizontal in nature - they have their hand in the pie everywhere, but they aren't a single, vertical monopoly like Microsoft is.

      Intel isn't a monopoly in the strictest sense, but they've been known to exhibit the same type of behaviour as a dominant player that garnered Microsoft its monopoly in the first palce - which is why nationalism may be *A* factor in this, but is far from the only one.

  • japan and crime (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Raleel ( 30913 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:24AM (#8803839)
    IIRC, japan takes it's crime very seriously, compared to say.. the US (disclaimer: I'm a native of the USA). Criminals move with the expectation of being caught, because the cops in Japan are highly efficient, work selflessly, etc etc. I hear some figure about how criminals in Japan have a 80-90% chance of being caught, where as in the US, it's more like 20-30%.

    Is it still that way?

    • Re:japan and crime (Score:3, Insightful)

      by foidulus ( 743482 )
      The well connected criminals don't get caught, organized crime is HUGE in Japan, and since the gangs are VERY politically connected, police only do token raids on the Yakuza to show the citizens that they are devoted to busting crime. Prostitution is illegal, but there are prostitutes EVERYWHERE! It's run by the Yakuza, so the police do nothing about it. Though the police do seem interested in busting some of the growing number of foreign gangs in Japan(mostly Chinese and Korean).
      • ...they have to protect the local Japanese businessmen from foreign encroachment--that way you know that when your knuckles are being broken, at least a native got that job, and didn't lose it to a foreigner!

    • Re:japan and crime (Score:4, Funny)

      by El Cabri ( 13930 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:34PM (#8804685) Journal
      House burglars in Japan are probably often caught while they are putting their shoes back on after they leave the crime scene.
    • ...criminals in Japan have a 80-90% chance of being caught, where as in the US, it's more like 20-30%.

      Those statistics sound bogus to me. How can you know how many criminals aren't caught?
    • Couple of important items left out of that picture: institutionalized corruption and racketeering. The stink with Haliburton and the VP would just not be a big deal in Japan, it would be business as usual. The corruption involved in the Boston "Big Dig" project would be business as usual in Japan.

      I don't live in Japan, but I have family there and the general attitude seems to be that the US is heaven compared to Japan. Normal people just accept that the police and politicians are corrupt and sold out. As

      • Normal people just accept that the police and politicians are corrupt and sold out. As long as politicians can deliver the pork most people are apathetic.

        This is soooo true, and soooo frustrating, at least to one who's been raised to believe that one has a duty to make one's voice heard. There doesn't seem to be quite as much of it in the younger (10s/20s) generation, but that means it'll be 20-30 years before there are significant enough numbers of them to make any difference--if there's a difference t

    • Wrong statistic (Score:4, Informative)

      by achurch ( 201270 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @08:05PM (#8810506) Homepage

      I hear some figure about how criminals in Japan have a 80-90% chance of being caught, where as in the US, it's more like 20-30%.

      No, Japan's about on par with the US there--in fact there've been news reports lamenting how the Japanese rate of catching criminals is "down" to 20% lately. The 80-90% figure is your chance of getting convicted if they take you to trial, and that's mostly because the police don't bring charges unless they're more or less certain they can convict you. (Even if you show up at the police station and confess to a crime, the standard procedure goes something like: confession --> interrogation --> confirm details --> okay, now we arrest you.)

  • it could be... (Score:3, Informative)

    by MoFoQ ( 584566 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:33AM (#8803955)
    it could be that microsoft ratted intel out for leniency....u know...the wintel issue from back in the day, before AMD became as big a contender as they are now; to the point that AMD now dictates what's in the X86-64 extension instruction set, etc. (even the rumor mill is spewing out that Intel will implement some of those extensions for some of their 32bit P4's later on)

  • Or in haiku... (Score:3, Funny)

    by yarisbandit ( 608829 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:35AM (#8803982) Homepage
    japan vigilent
    intel antitrust frolicks
    ruined by truncheon

  • Just a few more raids (Score:4, Funny)

    by wheelgun ( 178700 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:40AM (#8804051)
    Intel and Microsoft? They need to raid a case maker, a hard drive maker, a video card maker and a motherboard maker and they'll be all set to play Half-Life 2 at the precinct. ;)

  • Read the Intel Book (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GPLDAN ( 732269 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:01PM (#8804286)
    Read the book "intel Inside". The insider account of the culture of fear and paranoia fostered at Intel, with propaganda posters on the wall about how "it's nice to work at Intel", constant employee surveillance, the Randall Schwartz of Perl fame lawsuit, etc etc.

    It's Orwellian nature makes it perfectly suited for Japanese culture. Should be a slam dunk. Except, as another slashdotter pointed out, the profits are rolling back to Andy Grove and his clan. The Intellies probably cut some deal with Taiwan and a Japanese company lost out, and before you know it, the offices are being raided.

    With Intel's culture, a government raid is the biggest kick in the balls you could deliver. Start going through computer files and the network there, and people would be flipping out. What if they uncovered the AMD sabotage plot?
    • Read the book "intel Inside". The insider account of the culture of fear and paranoia fostered at Intel, with propaganda posters on the wall about how "it's nice to work at Intel", constant employee surveillance, the Randall Schwartz of Perl fame lawsuit, etc etc.

      I haven't heard of this book, but may have to check it out. One of my oldest friends works there, we grew up together (in our 30's now). I was just out visiting him, and I have to tell you that Intel seems like a nice place to work. He gets ve

  • This isn't fair. I mean, it's extremely fair when the government storms Microsoft offices and smashes up everything over there. But if they kindly walk into Intel offices and ask to be shown around, that's a bit invasive and unfair.
  • Japan is pretty vigilant until it comes to Japanese companies. Anti-trust laws? Japan is the center of huge conglomerate coroporations like Mitsubishi and Sony! Japan is completely unfair towards foreign companies, putting the small foreign business man through red tape until he gives up, and then using these so-called 'anti-trust laws' to raid bigger foreign companies, while their own domestic companies are immune to this kind of treatment.

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