Kazaa Going to Court 252
msim writes "According to the The Sydney Morning Herald" Kazaa will be going to court after their appeal to the Federal Court was dismissed. The case will be going ahead on March 23rd"
Life is a healthy respect for mother nature laced with greed.
Say cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh please! Enough with the cheesy quotes already! It's almost as bad as the RIAA saying "Oops I did it again" after attempting to sue yet another innocent victim.
Re:Say cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Say cheese! (Score:3, Funny)
Oh yeah!
Re:Say cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
Instead they act like Micheal Jackson and go after 12 year old boys.
Re:Say cheese! (Score:2, Funny)
Q: How is the RIAA different from Michael Jackson?
A: The RIAA didn't know the boys were 12.
Re:Say cheese! (Score:5, Funny)
"I hereby sentence you, Kazaa, to an eternity of having Britney Spears blasted into your ears"
AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
Britney Spears blasted in my ears? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Britney Spears blasted in my ears? (Score:2)
Re:Say cheese! (Score:5, Insightful)
So... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno, just liked the comment and have no mod points.
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Most cases so far have upheld the "don't blame the technology" view, and I would tend to agree.
However, following your own analogy, do you think that you should be held liable if you did make prank calls all day long?
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the "prankster" should be, but not the telephone company for providing the technology.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Ok, so now comes the next obvious question: should those who trade copyrighted works via P2P be exempt from that same logic?
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Ok, then, so you believe that it's just perfectly ok to run off duplicates of an independent musician's CDs and sell them on the street?
Perhaps you have been indulging in a little too much controlled substances for the day... ;)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
What in god's name are you taking about? It's cool for everybody to rip off all artists because some signed bad contracts?
I'm an independant, and I can tell you that copyright protec
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
Spoken like a creep who knows nothing about how hard it already is to make even a meager living as an independent. Crap thinking like this just makes it even harder.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Maybe you're just not that good and should look for something else to do.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Cast me as Halliburtan, but you're the thug.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Abolition of slavery or allowing women to vote didn't "hold water" with most people a while ago either. Maybe you need a gun pointed at you(in the form of copyright) to force you to respect others, but I don't. I'll repeat what I said before. If the artist doesn't want me to sell dupes of his music, I won't. Just don't tell me I can't. I'll decide what's
Re:So... (Score:2)
Cool, now I get it -- basically the idea is, whatever you say goes. Yes, I think that will work, and I'm sure everybody will be greatful for your benevolent leadership!
Re:So... (Score:2)
Why...yes...they would
See the latest article posted to see what copyright gets ya...
Re:So... (Score:2)
No, that analogy stands -- this guy disregards copyright in general, and so that includes selling unauthorized copies of an independent's work.
"You maybe think the latter will allow you to live a better life as an independent musician. It might or might not b
Re:So... (Score:2)
Bait and switch.
The prankster is responsible for the prank calls, and the telephone company should not be.
The copyright infringer is responsible for their actions... and yet the RIAA is going after KAZAA
Are you following the analogy yet ?
Re:So... (Score:2)
Perfectly well, and as I said, I don't think that technology should be held accountable for how some may misuse it.
But you can't turn a blind eye (or perhaps you can) to the obvious consequence: if you can't blame the technology for how some misuse it, then you can blame those individuals that do.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Regardless of laws, the maker of a device should not in any way be liable for the actions of the end user.
Re:So... (Score:2)
Note that this is the argument that the EFF themselves used to make when they suggested that the RIAA should be suing the infringers [com.com] rather than suing the technology.
But then the EFF logic fell apart when they moved on to justifying the infringers too.
Re:So... (Score:3)
Yes, the EFF cheers on file sharing, at least you got that part right. But *not* all file sharing is illegal. The EFF is _not_ saying please infringe on copyrights; it _is_ saying let's work together to make peer-to-peer 100% legal."
No logic-fixin' necessary over here.
How about if the EFF said "don't share copyrighted works" -- that would certainly help make p2p legal.
Nope, the EFF is fundamentally indifferent to the copyright status of file-shared
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
but I think a better analogy is should the phone comany be held liable if the customer made prank calls ?
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
and following this analogy, if 99% of all calls were prank calls, should the phone company be required to do something about it?
Re:So... (Score:2)
Really it comes down to whom is injured and who is benefitting. Almost everyone will agree that SPAM is a pain in the butt, so something is being done about it
Not many are offended by P2P, in fact most like it. RIAA and some artists (note: some) don't... but they have more money that most of the average people, and more to spend on lawyers or taking their pet politicians out for a swanky meal to "discuss" the issue.
Re:So... (Score:2)
"Requiring them to do something about it" is not the same as "Holding them liable for the actions". And by "something" you'd better mean something specific, not just "Flail about as your lawyers think is appropriate, based on our vague and fuzzy laws".
Re:So... (Score:2)
Re:So... (Score:2)
You're kind of missing the point -- if we're going to say that the phone company shouldn't be liable for prank calls placed by its customers, we are then implying that the customer should be liable, no?
And that in turn leads to the question of whether those who trade unauthorized copyrighted files should be reasonably held accountable.
If Kazaa is like the phone company here, and is therefor unac
Re:So... (Score:2)
It lies with the people that allow unjust laws to be passed.
Re:So... (Score:2)
You don't work as a creative professional, and have little understanding of how copyright protects artists, and gives them an opportunity to sell their work.
You seen an independent working in a garage as no different than a multinational corporation -- neither worthy of protection.
You may argue that people should be able to sell copies of others' works without permission, but most people won't agre
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty amazing that some argue otherwise, eh?
"That's not to say that the Copyright laws don't need to be tweaked to put more power back into the hands of the creators..."
Certainly -- but it gets pretty frustrating to see these guys who also want to take away rights from independent creators, and justify it all with lame anti-RIAA rhetoric. OK, the RIAA sucks, but does that mean that all
Re:So... (Score:3)
And I'm sure that you have no problem with any artists that do choose to share their work.
It's funny (but still sad) when -- because I respect an artist's right to protect her work -- I'm call
Re:So... (Score:2)
Really tho, porn is legal.
I can't say what legal uses file trading would have but the question is, CAN and is it used legally? If so, then it shouldn't be closed down.
Going to Court? (Score:5, Funny)
Weird (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Weird (Score:2, Interesting)
basicalyl there is now 2 "kazaa" networks. 1 the official new client and the other the K++ client.
although dietK has great dll's that replace all the kazaa spyware crud and it will block ad's also.
doesn't matter antyways...
Re:Weird (Score:4, Interesting)
Hum... (Score:3, Interesting)
Many problems have been identified with the legacy Gnutella network. For example there is ample research indicating that it cannot scale or that it uses too much overhead. But perhaps more importantly it lacks a clear set of network standards, which has led to a network of unequal clients and abusive behaviour, to the point that one client can consume 80% of the resources on the entire network!
Re:Weird (Score:5, Informative)
Kazaa does not use the Gnutella network, they use the FastTrack network. It is however similar to Gnutella, with no centralized server.
Re:It's Kazaa Lite that's no longer downloadable.. (Score:2, Informative)
Face the music? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not just tax virgin CD's ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Why not just tax virgin CD's ? (Score:3, Interesting)
As for MP3 players: look at DVD players: Sony makes sleek units that are difficult/expensive to dezone. Meanwhile, whatever country is doing to the koreans what the koreans did to the japanese is exporting zillions of cheap units that you can dezone by holdi
Re:Why not just tax virgin CD's ? (Score:2)
There already is a kick-back going to music publishers on blank audio-only CDs. This does not and should not happen for all blank CDs because not every CD is used for music.
The USA government should STFU in this case. Even with audio-only CDs, that audio can be music can be of my own creation, a recording of a college lecture, a freely-traded public performance, or any of a hundred other things that don't (or shouldn't) require payment to the music
Prediction (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps we need a legitimate kazaa? An Itunes-alike that not only sells music, but also software?
Sooner or later all file swapping will have to get around this
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, Kazaa is legitimate [pcworld.com]. I'm not aware of any jursidictions in which it has been ruled illegal, but it certainly has been ruled legal. And common sense would say that just because it can be, or even often is, used illegally doesn't mean it is inherently illegitimate. It does have legitimate legal uses.
Re:Prediction (Score:2)
" I predicted that the internet would die in 2003, and though it didn't happen, we can be pretty sure that it will sooner or later.
Perhaps we need a legitimate internet? "
Kids (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Kids (Score:2)
Sure you were! ;)
Re:Entrapment? (Score:2)
In order to be guilty of entrapment, the officer has to coerce or encourage the defendant to commit a crime.
It's not uncommon, for instance, for officers to perform a sting by leaving a nice car sitting on the street and arresting those who come to steal it. Since the officers did not make any attempt to coerce or encourage the subject to steal, it's not entrapment.
Lindows and P2P (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe the attitude of companies to P2P will change when they see the commercial advantages like Lindows have [lindows.com]
Now taking bets: RIAA vs. KAZAA! (Score:5, Funny)
Hey Pete! (Score:2)
Fighting in two fronts (Score:5, Interesting)
Federal Court Justice Murray Wilcox dismissed an application by the world's largest file sharing network to delay proceedings against it until a similar case in the United States was finalised.
This has got to be kind of tough. So Kazaa has to defend themselves against two recording industry associations simultaneously? I wonder if there was any agreement between the RIAA and the Australian counterpart to hit Kazaa at the same time. Hopefully Kazaa can use some of the work for one case in the other but still that's not too much fun to have to fight a two-front war. That takes resources and I wonder if Kazaa has enough to hold their own.
GMD
Re:Fighting in two fronts (Score:2, Informative)
"This has got to be kind of tough. So Kazaa has to defend themselves against two recording industry associations simultaneously?"
This is a risk when you piss off two recording trade groups simultaneously.
Troll? Nonsense. (Score:2)
Oh, please. This is a pretty easy thing to understand -- if you annoy a lot of people at once, expect them to jump on you at once.
Remember when all the states were going after Microsoft at once to get their share of the anti-trust money?
Remember when it seemed like all the lawsuits from moribund cancer sufferers were hitting Big Tobacco at once?
Whether it's a "good guy" like Kazaa, a "bad guy" like Microsoft, or a -- well, I don't know what the collective Slashdot opinion is on the tobacco companies
Almost had the entire article up front (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Almost had the entire article up front (Score:2, Funny)
What's the Big Deal? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What's the Big Deal? (Score:2, Funny)
Site slashdotted (Score:5, Informative)
Here [slyck.com] and here [technewsworld.com]
PS: The second link is heavier and probably will go down soon.
As Pepsi put it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:As Pepsi put it... (Score:2, Funny)
"The music industry are greedy jerks! Buy your songs from iTunes!"
I hope RIAA members come up with an offer of a free six pack of coke for each CD purchased, or something. And air a commercial saying "We aren't going to drink that swill, whether you like it or not!"
Numbers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:As Pepsi put it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Too bad that's not what they meant and everyone knows it. Yes, it is true that everyone will find different ways to get around the roadblocks setup. Yes, it is also true that P2P will continue to evolve at a pace where we will be lightyears ahead of the redtape...
But, is it all worth it? Why not support FREE music? Artists that support the distribution of their s
Re:As Pepsi put it... (Score:3, Insightful)
In a sense, that is exactly what's happening. We're creating a market for bands that distribute their recordings for free and profit from performance. I'm tangentially involved with the local music scene and the ability to download major label music for free doesn't have the slightest impact on the cover charge for the local bar band. People still want to go out, have a drink, and see a performance.
What HAS changed is the fact that this unsigned, unm
TRIPS (Score:2, Interesting)
Copyright owners .. (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's exactly the problem, the latest CD I bought says on the cover something like : Copyright(C) 2004 $RECORDLABEL instead of Copyright(C) 2004 $ARTIST.
They are always babbling about the artist not getting paid bla bla, while their only concern is their own bank account.
The fact is, tools like KaZaa have shown we don't need record companies anymore, and it has them scared shitless.
Regarding the artists not getting paid and this whining about how it 'hurts' music: there is no need to pay them for download music, for several reasons.
Re:Copyright owners .. (Score:4, Insightful)
"If you're in it just for the money, I really don't want to hear your music anyway. Art should be created for the love of the art, not for monetary gain. Paying 'super stars' exorbitant amounts of money hasn't done their music any good. Look at the great artists from the past, Van Gogh didn't have a pot to piss in."
A couple of issues here.
First, I don't think anybody can say with certainty that 100% of the music they love was created by people who had absolutely no monetary motivation. There is an important difference between being a musician solely for the money, and the chance of wealth being one of the reasons why you've pursued that career.
If you can look at the highlights of your music collection and truly say "all of this great music would still be in my hands if the record companies did not exist," I'd like to see your record collection!
I am well aware of the fact that for four years now, we have heard "P2P has made the record labels obsolete" or "P2P will make the record labels obsolete pretty soon." Just as in indie film circles it was claimed that the Internet would eliminate all the problems that plague traditional indie film distribution. Today, there are excellent resources for indie filmmakers and musicians to use the Internet and low-cost technology to record, mix, produce, distribute, promote, market and sell their work -- and many do -- but the record labels still continue to sign new bands. There are a lot musicians out there who desparately want a recording contract, but can't get one. Completely separate from the issue of choosing the chance at wealth vs. relative poverty, there is the issue that many musicians simply don't want and don't have the skills to run their career as a business. They'd really rather just focus on playing their music, and let the bean counters and the marketing, engineering and sales geeks at the record companies take care of the rest.
As an adjunct to that, it's also been predicted for several years now that there would be a mass exodus from the record labels as major acts opted not to re-up their contracts and instead moved to a solely Internet-based distribution mechanism, where they would rely on the honor system and concert revenues to pay their mortgages. While I've seen some bands release additional material via the web, as well as some bands who went this route after they were dropped by their label, the popular opinion from musicians still seems to be that if you have a record contract, it's in your best intrest to keep it.
The other issue is that you mentioned Van Gogh as an artist who created some great work despite living in poverty. But Shakespeare, Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Mozart, Chopin, Brahms and innumerable other greats of the last millennium became wealthy men from their work. Reading the biographies of many of people shows that, yes, they were motivated by money. Sadly, greed is not a concept that was invented in the 20th century.
Re:Copyright owners .. (Score:2)
If what you are saying were true, then we should shut down the entire entertainment industry and replace it with an organization on a subsistence government dole.
Some art produced for profit is good, and some is not. Some art produced as a means to other ends is good, and some is not. Some art produced as an end in itself is good, and some is not.
I'v
Re:But what about the artists who (Score:2, Informative)
Re:But what about the artists who (Score:2)
"Read the stuff over at Magnatune...the average musician makes like $1500 a year or so on their record sales. The rest they make up in performances."
This works out for the average artist if they were able to record and produce the record for $1500 or less. Then, they'll break even in a year. While it's possible to keep the production of an entire album under $1500, it's very difficult. Even if you found a studio that charged only $100 a day, you'd go through that in a couple of weeks.
One should not
Re:But what about the artists who (Score:2)
Unfortunately for those rappers, those women are in it for the money!
Site already slow... full text of article (Score:4, Informative)
March 4, 2004 - 6:05PM
Internet music company Kazaa has failed in its attempt to delay proceedings for alleged copyright breaches brought by the Australian record industry.
Federal Court Justice Murray Wilcox dismissed an application by the world's largest file sharing network to delay proceedings against it until a similar case in the United States was finalised.
Music Industry Piracy Investigation (MIPI), which is owned by Universal, Festival Mushroom Records, EMI Music, Sony Music, Warner Music Australia and BMG Australia, raided 12 premises on February 6 this year to collect evidence against Kazaa. MIPI general manager Michael Speck said the decision to allow proceedings to go ahead against Sharman Networks, Kazaa's owner in Australia, was a win for the record industry.
"This represents a massive victory for the copyright owners," he said outside the court.
"It's time for Kazaa to stop using delaying tactics and face the music."
The matter was adjourned until March 23.
More information... (Score:2, Funny)
The Ballad of Kazaa (Score:3, Interesting)
Once there was a mighty napster whose technology allowed for swapping files. Due to poor insight, the technology also allowed users to be tracked -- Fanning be damned.
Along came the peer to peer networks, with gnutella seeming to be the frontrunner. Then came the FastTrack network with Sharman in the back and the mighty Morpheus at the helm due to its ease of use and improved reliability.
The Kazaa folks (Sharman) did not take kindly to Morpheus apparently not paying their bills or whatnot, and thus cut them off the network. Alarm bells should have immediately rung as anyone who has the power to cut clients off a network clearly cannot be "anonymously" peer-to-peer to begin with.
Morpheus ran to the gnutella networks, gathering up Gnucleus code and branding it. By branding, of course, I mean the trend in p2p software of installing various products, some of which amount to adware and/or spyware.
Kazaa touts itself the survivor, gathering up more Morpheus users than either bearshare or limewire or [insert gnutella client here].
Kazaa seen as the filesharing client for the masses and now holds major scrutiny by the recording industry. More p2p networks pop up promising better anonymity.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Antiquated Distro System (Score:2, Insightful)
The music industry is still using the Luddite network distribution of redundant labor. They still put music on archaic plastic disks and hire guys to truck them out to music stores, and then expect consumers to drive out to these stores, pay 15 bucks, then drive home only to find there's only one song they like on the whole CD.
When this business model fails, they start suing everyone.
But there is something each and every one of us can do today to stop this : U
A musicians point of view. (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, it would give record companies a lot more control over content than they have now.
MP3's should be treated like radio broadcasts, one should have to get a license in order to share the files. Its up to companies to find out how to generate the revenue streams, either charge for downloads, or provide other subscription based benefits that traditional P2P systems dont currently provide. All that is needed is a better product, and by that I dont mean better artists (but that wouldnt be a bad idea) I mean that they should provide a service that pisses all over everything else.
My personal belief is that these days the way to make real money is through real physical products, not through arbitrary file formats such as ogg or mp3. Through not just CD sales, but from the T-Shirts, the posters, the ticket sales for gigs, subscriptions to fanzines etc.
I am truly surprised that the record companies have not yet realised that instead of turning every 12yr old, boy-band lovin' girl downloading the latest cheesy pop number into a criminal. They should try concentrating on selling more Merchandise.
Record companies should also realise that its the "Proper" bands, who write their own tunes, who innovate and create their own boundaries, that are the ones that are going to be more than a novelty or fad. They are also the ones who will sell more tickets for gigs, and at those gigs people will buy merchandise.
Yep, and it wouldnt be a bad idea not to screw the real artists over when it comes to royalties either. And while im ranting, for gods sake, lets see the end of these dreadful "Pop-Idol" TV shows !
On that note , If you want some free, legal MP3's from an original band.. Please click my sig and download at will, and please god! try not to slashdot my humble computer
Nick
Re:A musicians point of view. (Score:2)
(mod him up funny!)
nick
How the music industry might react (Score:4, Interesting)
What about porn (Score:5, Funny)
I have NEVER heard people trying to bring down any P2P due to distributing too much porn.
Why don't people come out of the closet to protect the porn industry.
Interesting Coincidence (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it. (Score:2)
Stealing? Does not happen (Score:2, Insightful)
It is technically, legally, and morally impossible to steal a thing using KazAa or any other p2p software.
Re:Stealing? Does not happen (Score:2)
Re:If Kazaa goes down, what next? (Score:2)
I like Rhapsody [listen.com] -- I pay $9.95 per month for unlimited streaming from a pretty big library.
You have to pay extra to burn tracks to CDs, and I've never done that. I don't think they have any downloads ("tethered" or otherwise).
Re:How about an open one? (Score:2)
I don't really know what their comparative catalog sizes are, but I'm not at all tempted by iTMS. Personally, I don't want to buy DRM'd files, and I think $1 is too much.
Also, I don't like the idea of having to worry about each purchase.
With Rhapsody I can p
Re:That's right (Score:2)
"That's right. However, it is more of a "There's More" argument than it is "and it's all free". If the "legit" services actually had the good selection of music, I'd never worry about the non-legit ones again."
As has been sung: "you can't always get what you want" -- and, I note, that's available on Rhapsody.
Again, what's the point of discussing this if you're going to compare the illegal catalog size of Kazaa vs. that of a legit service?
I've been turned onto plenty of great new music via Rhapsody. An
Re:There's not plenty there (Score:2)
Look, I don't want to continue with the comparison to an illegal catalog, it's pointless. There is plenty there. What do you like?
"Does anything stop you from recording the streams you've paid for?"
I guess it depends on what you mean by that. You're cerntaly not 'authorized' to rip streams, but you already know that, eh.
Re:There's not plenty there (Score:2)
Perhaps, but just because they don't sell it doens't mean that it's OK to take it.
band: Royal Guardsmen
artist/band: Eddie Jobson
band: UK
"Are these in Rhapsody?"
No, but plenty of Yes, Roxy Music, etc. is. Also, those all seem to be minor lables, and so I'm not sure if it's fair to blame the RIAA.