PC Pitstop Continues Anti-Spyware Campaign

Jason Spaceman points to this Globe and Mail story which begins "'Fresh from settling a libel lawsuit by pulling anti-Gator pages from its site, PC Pitstop this week plans to launch a new, expanded site critical of the controversial software.'" They're not giving up; according to this story, although Claria (nee Gator) is attempting to use such libel suits to stop critics from describing their spyware software (still called Gator) as "spyware," "To replace the material it removed in September, PC Pitstop on Thursday plans to launch its Gator Information Center -- which in many respects appears no less critical than its predecessor."

i know.

[gl4ss]

let's just call gator annoying-ware, spam-ware, surveillance-ware, terrorist-ware or shit-ware. that should be ok, right?

.

PC Pitstop

[rmohr02]

Also see PC Pitstop's website [pcpitstop.com].

Not Spyware? Fine

[wowbagger]

OK, so Gator is saying:

Spyware is software installed without the users knowledge.

Our software is only installed with the user's knowledge.

Ergo, we are not spyware.


OK, so, define a new term:
Tattleware - software that reports your actions to a third party

Then use that term to describe Gator.

Additionally, it would seem to me that one could argue in court

You say your software is not spyware, since it is always installed with the user's permission. Fine - prove your assertion. We want a list of all computers with Gator on them, and proof that the users consented to the installation.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[mopslik]

Additionally, it would seem to me that one could argue in court, "You say your software is not spyware, since it is always installed with the user's permission. Fine - prove your assertion. We want a list of all computers with Gator on them, and proof that the users consented to the installation."

Only the way the justice system works is that the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, not the defendant. If you were launching a suit against Gator, you'd be required to "prove" that many users had their

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[wowbagger]

But it is GATOR that is suing, claiming not to be spyware - thus they ARE the plaintif (civil case, not criminal, therefor plaintif, not prosecution).

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[mopslik]

But it is GATOR that is suing...

Well, that certainly seems reasonable enough then.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[bitty]

But it is GATOR that is suing, claiming not to be spyware - thus they ARE the plaintif (civil case, not criminal, therefor plaintif, not prosecution)

The person filing the suit still has to prove their case, it doesn't matter what they're called. You can't file suit in the US and expect the defendant to have to prove their innocence/non-liability.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[EvanED]

"The person filing the suit still has to prove their case, it doesn't matter what they're called. You can't file suit in the US and expect the defendant to have to prove their innocence/non-liability."

You ignored the message to say the wording doesn't matter. Good job.

Gator is suing, hence they have the burden of proof. They have to prove libel. They have to prove that calling Gator spyware is libel. The defendant isn't proving anything with the "give us a list" argument.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say that it's spyware, whether or not it is put on the user's machine with consent. It is a piece of software that phone's home to a central database, reporting the activities of the user on the machine it is installed on. That sounds like spy-work to me, regardless of how it got on the machine.

What about "Gators"?

[Ieshan]

Why don't we just do what all great lexicographers do, and name things "Gators" - software that drives you nuts and sucks, while reporting your actions to a third party.

Since it's common speech, they can't claim trademark over the name.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[meta-monkey]

I'm curious where they got this definition of "spyware." I had always thought that spyware was software that monitored what you do on your computer, and then reported that to other people. Sometimes, spyware is installed with consent. Sometimes, spyware is installed without consent. Either way, it's still spyware.

Gator's playing semantics. They don't seem to deny that their software monitors users' actions and reports them to their server. They're just trying to re-define the term so it only applies

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[penguin king]

I guess in a way Microsoft's Windows Update must be spyware, as it reports on what you have installed. Interesting, perhaps that is why the definitions are not like this, they don't want to get in the way of Microsoft.

Re:Not Spyware? Fine

[meta-monkey]

I wouldn't say so, because when you check windows update, you're sending the info about what you have installed expressly for the purpose of updating it. That is, the user is sending data about Microsoft's products, to Microsoft, on purpose, in a fully transparent way. Gator observes what you're doing with other companies' software products and reports it back to them, discretely, and without asking you first. I think that's a big difference. If windows update is spyware, then when you call up your cred

Governments hire spies...

[bluGill]

Spies often work for the goverment they are apying AGAINST. That is the government they are stealing information from concented to their right to be and do some things that. The spy typically finds that the concented level of acess to secerets isn't enough and useing their position as an insider to gain additional access to secerets.

Looks like Gator is spyware to me. Users concent, without knowing what they are concenting to.

RTF Site

[kawika]

If you go look at their Gator info [pcpitstop.com] the word "spyware" is nowhere to be found. However, there is a lot of interesting factual information about Gator's questionable way of doing business. Notice their survey of users who had Gator; more than 70 percent didn't know it was installed. Yet Gator claims they can do what they want on systems because users accepted their license?

Re:RTF Site

[mbstone]

I would love to come into court and testify that Gator loaded itself onto my machine without my consent or clicking on any alleged license. I bet several hundred of you would be waiting in line to testify as well. Truth is an absolute defense to libel.

Gator and Overture linked

[Artifex]

The most interesting part of the pitstop website is the finding that Gator and Overture are linked [pcpitstop.com]. A lot of companies that would never knowingly do business with Gator no doubt have acocunts with Overture.

Overture needs to be called to task for this relationship.

Optimal solution

[pla]

Gator/Claria doesn't like us calling it spyware?

Fine. Let's start calling all spyware "Gator-ware" (or "Claria-ware", to reflect their name change, which seems unneeded and even counterproductive considering what a great product they seem to think they have).

We can all play their stupid little word games, to our amusement and their detriment.


Perhaps we can even come up with an entire themed system of sypware nomenclature... "Gatorware" sneaks in to eat you, but if you look closely enough, you can see it install itself. "Crocware" boldly anounces itself and makes you think you need it. "Clariaware" breaks any programs that try to call a spade a spade (such as some of the adaware removing spyware progs out there). Hmm...

Do unto others as.....

[Indysol]

This Site [gainpublishing.com] contains an e-mail Form system you can use to express to Gain exactly how you feel.

Use of something like Spam Motel [spammotel.com] highly recomended.

If you prefer another method of sharing your feelings. By all means SnailMail: GAIN Publishing, Inc. 2000 Bridge Parkway, Suite 100 Redwood City, CA 94065.
Their Fax Number is plainly listed as: 650-232-0400
For people in Redwood City, CA they even provide a MAP [gator.com] of their location

S then Dell can tell people how to remove Gator...

[Iamnoone]

I wonder what the memowriters at Dell would say about calls inquiring how to remove Gator. If they say "don't tell people how to remove it" then they are implying that it is spyware, as we all know that it is.
If a private investigator tells you that they are being paid to watch your every move, is it then no longer spying as they follow you around?