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Wiretapping, The Year in Review 74

Posted by michael from the have-you-hugged-your-private-key-today? dept.
An AC was the first to send in this CNN article about FBI wiretapping, based on documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act Request. (I found the article funny because the documents were so heavily censored - the FBI gets to eavesdrop on the public, but not vice-versa.) According to CNN: wiretapping is up, up, up. But the Electronic Privacy Information Center notes that the U.S. court system has just released its annual wiretapping report, and according to EPIC, wiretapping is down. I think someone forgot to carry a 1 somewhere.
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Wiretapping, The Year in Review More

Wiretapping, The Year in Review

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  • Results of a phone call to FBI.

    Me: Is it true that the number of wire tap requests, and the number of granted wiretaps is increasing?

    Agent Mulder: All your wiretaps are belong to us!

    Nietche-God is dead.
    God-Nietche is dead.

  • Re:Land of the Free? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The problem with Democracy is the other guys get to vote too.

    I'd rather be shafted by a captialist than a communist. The former is doing it for money, the latter for fun.

  • It's perfectly legal and just. (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 04, 2001 @02:07PM (#244677)
    It's the FBI's right to eavesdrop on any and all communications with or without permission from a judge. They are just trying to stop possible drug law violators, hackers, pedophiles, pirates, pedophiles, etc.

    The constitution doesn't apply because the FBI isn't obliged to obey any parts of the constitution. Niether is the rest of the government. The Bill of rights has been interpreted as a meaningless piece of trash... and it is. You do not have any legitimate reason to own guns, question the government, use hate speech, or have due process, etc. It was merely a suggestion and a bad one at that.

    All of you so called "geeks" and "linux dorks" need very badly to be put into prison for the rest of your lives for being criminals. Your disrespect for intellectual property should cost you your "freedom."

  • Speaking of the FBI (Score:3)

    by abischof ( 255 ) <alex&spamcop,net> on Friday May 04, 2001 @04:16PM (#244678) Homepage
    On a related note, FBI Director Louis Freeh will be resigning in June [cnn.com]. Freeh was the guy who wanted to require [slashdot.org] Cell Companies to provide the FBI with the location of mobile phone users without a court order or warrant. He was also against legislation [slashdot.org] that would have eased the restrictions on the export of crypto.

    Sounds like a good thing to me.

    Alex Bischoff
    ---

  • All the news that (isn't) printed (Score:3)

    by Eric Green ( 627 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @08:36PM (#244679) Homepage
    I was actually present at an event that, according to the media, didn't exist. Note that I was not a participant in the event, did not agree with the position of the people holding the event (in fact, I wanted to go to the local Wal-mart and grab some posterboard and start a counter-protest, but decided I wasn't feeling that energetic that day), but it was an unmistakable event that pretty much reduced the main drag of Wilmington NC to an unnavigable state for four hours. In other words, you'd have to be a moron not to have noticed it. But no mention on the nightly news (I checked every local TV station, both the 6pm and 11pm news), no mention in the daily newspaper... as far as the corporate media was concerned, it did not exist.

    That was when I started to think about how a few large corporations such as Disney and Gannet control almost all news media in the United States.

    Anyhow, read my writeup [badtux.org] of the experience, and judge for yourself. Are you being told the real news?

    -E

  • Notice that of this list, only foreign intelligence agents are described as "suspected". Everyone else is given a "true" identifier, or at least one with no modifier indicating lack of certainity. This may seem like nit-picking, but contextual analysis of this nature certainly can give insight into the inherent biases of a given culture.

    You'd think a person who used the term "contextual analysis" would be able to understand a simple sentence.

    The FBI has used Internet eavesdropping tools to track fugitives, drug dealers, extortionists, computer hackers and suspected foreign intelligence agents, documents show.

    Looks to me that if they wiretapped and convicted a fugitive, drug dealer, extortionists and some computer hackers and wiretapped someone they suspected was a foreign agent (whether or not they were), that sentence would be the truth. Any bias would be on the part of the journalist inferring from FOIA documents. Maybe the bias is your own?

  • Given the mandatory tap-and-trace infrastructure provisions of CALEA (the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act of 1994), plus the long history of cozy cooperation between Ma Bell and the feds, I think you can safely assume that there's no way to detect taps with simple voltage checkers. Such devices might tell you if another phone has been plugged in to your circuit, but taps are done at the central office; since the switches these days are overwhelmingly digital, the telco just commands the switch to duplicate traffic to/from port X of blade Y to another port (like a "management port" on a router). The cops just tune in on this monitoring port - they don't touch your physical circuit, and so avoid changing its electrical properties and tipping you off.

    There's nothing secret about this - do a search for CALEA and you'll find hundreds of links.

    -Isaac

  • That's assuming, of course, that the new Director won't be even more of a fascist.

    My god, I sound so cynical...
  • ...but like every other government organization the are for the good of the FBI NOW. The ones to watch out for are the quiet like NSA. The only time we here from them is at senate appropriations time. The FBI at least has to petition congress for money. the CIA/NSA has found ways to make it outside the US, so they can fund the ops that the US congress might interfere with.
  • While ANY INDIVIDUAL AGENT may in fact be dedicated to the betterment of the US, they also follow orders blindly and who determines what is for OUR GOOD. The FBI of course, how could we be expected to know the things ourselves.
  • you really think so ?? Never done anything ? I find that hard to believe, but maybe it is true. So you can be the LAST one they come and get. Everyone who has done somthing, don't ask, it might be contagious, will already be gone.
    Pls put your head back in the sand and let the rest of us pass you by...
  • sad sad sad...

    Do some research, violence is down, crime is down.
    But the govt.s need to CONTROL has not gone away...
  • Maybe some of the drug dealers, computer hackers, etc. were proven guilty of their crimes. Therefore they are not alleged. The foreign agents, on the other hand, perhaps were not.

    Alternatively, the writer was tired when she wrote the piece. Yeesh. Slashdot is so paranoid.
  • The FBI 2002 budget request includes more than $13 million for Internet surveillance, $2.5 million more than this year. Most of the new money would go for research and development.

    This so-called research and development, can it be really called that?

    Etherpeek is a commercially available network monitoring program that is far less precise in filtering the information collected.

    What's going on here? Are the FBI using their budgeted money for OTHER peoples products?

    The article states that the FBI's Carnivore system has been officially used ( insert paranoia here ) a measly 13 times, with Etherpeek, 11 times.

    If Etherpeek is being defined as far less precise, why arent they coming out with new fang-dangled software packages that are better, rather than purchase external software?.

    I would have thought that the FBI would be a prime example for the need for in-house software, as their needs will be very specific to the tasks they perform.

  • Well, theres lots of stuff in Popular Mechanics/Sceince in the gadget section that 'say' will alert you if someone else is eavesdropping on your phone line. I also recall something about the voltage of your phone line going up if 'They' are listening in. Not too sure about it though.

    ---
  • It's not like they're going to care if you send messages to your lover behind your wife/husband's back.

    Unless your lover happens to be the wife of an FBI agent. Don't forget these are real human beings -- if they could tap any phone they like, certainly they'd have a personal interest in some people's lives.

    ---------------------------------------------

  • Has /. been electronically wiretapped? (Score:4)

    by macdaddy ( 38372 ) on Saturday May 05, 2001 @01:27PM (#244691) Homepage Journal
    This is an interesting thought. Is /. considered a radical rebel group with a large and loyal following that occasionally posts provocative articles promoting action of some sorts? If so then what are the odds that upstream of Andover someone (Big Brother) is watching all /.'s traffic? It's really not that far fetched if you think about it. This.. is the "Penguin Brief®". Within minutes of posting this comment, I expect some person clad in black with dark sunglasses and big guns to knock on my front door. I sure hope it's Barb Wire. :)

    --

  • Yes, indeed, the monitoring capabilities are scary. But WHAT is worthy of monitoring is very scary, too: the scope keeps growing. Now that they can monitor lots of stuff, they do (Echelon), and if you eat your chicken funny, you may be suspect.
    --
  • And you thought you lived in the land of the free? You've been a slave all along and did not know it. But don't feel bad, 99% the world is in slavery, slavery from communism on the left and capitalism on the right.

    In the end, it will be the Global Mulitnationals (capitalists) working with the UN (world gov't, socialists) to enslave us all under a unified "Democratic Capitalist" system.
    --

  • And you thought you lived in the land of the free? You've been a slave all along and did not know it. But don't feel bad, 99% the world is in slavery, slavery from communism on the left and capitalism on the right.

    Quacking sound of consumerist droid:

    "War is Peace

    Slavery is Freedom

    Ignorance is Strength

    BTW, hasn't China _always_ been our most hated enemy? 'Scuse me, gotta go to the 5-minute hate. Today's should be a good one! Wonder who's next after that devil Richard M. Stallman yesterday."

    Folks, it ain't too far off when we're surrounded by droids like this.
    --

  • Re:nothing to hide (Score:4)

    by bravehamster ( 44836 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @03:58PM (#244695) Homepage Journal
    I agree with the person that said, "I have nothing to hide." I can understand how people would want their privacy, but unless you have something to hide, why not let them read your emails? It's not like they're going to care if you send messages to your lover behind your wife/husband's back. All they're looking for are illegal things that people aren't doing.. aren't they?

    You're relaxing on the couch, watching the tv, when you hear your backdoor open. You see a man, dressed in a dark suit and wearing sunglasses walking towards your desk. Without hesitation he sits down and begins going through your papers.

    "Excuse me," you say "Can I help you?".

    "No thank you sir, just checking for anything illegal, be done in a few moments."

    Since this happens about once a week you think nothing more of it and walk back to your couch and your sheep-like lifestyle.

    AND YOU'RE OK WITH THIS SCENARIO?????

  • Yeah, I know, people just cannot get it right. The word order is so twisted, so contrary to correct grammar that people can't help themselves. The language processing in the brain is so strong that it takes real effort to hold in mind all the simultaneous errors.

    Walt

  • anyone know... (Score:3)

    by po_boy ( 69692 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @01:59PM (#244697)
    So how can I find out if I have been the lucky victim of a wiretap?
  • The Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA, entitles the public to request government documents. There are limits, of course, which account for the redactions. Typical redaction reasons include national security, methods of investigations, personal or private information, and information that may jeopardize an ongoing case. Those reasons are open to appeal, but a victory is not likely.

    By the way, I'm the one who wrote the story. The ".ap" at the end of the folder means Associated Press, and I'm the AP's tech writer in Washington. (So nyah.)

    I put in my FOIA request for the information months ago, around October. You do eventually get the info, but it isn't quick. (Although quicker (and free) for the press than it is the general public.)

  • I'm in total agreement with you on this one. It's a well-known fact that government agencies never abuse their power or opress citizens.

    -Legion

  • How the fuck is this propoganda informative. Dumbass moderators should read the other stories on that page. All kinds of conspiracy crap, sounds like a mix of right wing militia types and left-wing potheads

    Man, you're ignorant. You comment that some of the stuff on the IMC site is too conspiratorial. You comment that there are too many fuck-ups saying stuff on the IMC site. I ask you: Who are you on this site? I would suggest that you're an ignorant fuck-up contributing /nothing/ of content or quality to /any/ discussion on /this/ site. So, now I want to complain about all the idiots on Slashdot. The IMC is a 100% democratic and /non-moderated/ website, it is that way for a purpose, it is purposefully built on anarchic principles--if you're too ignorant to understand the rationale, then that is /your/ fault. So what if a few people submit over the top conspiratorial rubish, so what if some posts are too empassioned; at least it's not censored like everything else (and if your posts are any gauge, I'd say all you've ever read is the censored stuff). That's all the time I have to waste on you.

  • More COINTELPRO?? Amerikkka the beautiful. (Score:4)

    by Jizzbug ( 101250 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @02:32PM (#244701)
    I wouldn't be surprised if tapping is up lately due to more COINTELPRO [icdc.com]-ish operations on the government's end due to the recent resurgence of political activism in this country (and especially with the emergence of black bloc [infoshop.org]-style activism and direct action). Heck, I wouldn't doubt it if I've got a nice sized file at FBI headquarters by now--being that I've worked with various black blocs from D.C. to Boston to St. Louis to Kansas City, and at each action we've been photographed and video-recorded by several various "law enforcement" agencies. Also, at each action, hordes of undercover and covert "operatives" have turned up within the protest factions; imagine government officials covertly placing officers undercover for the sole purpose of sabotaging protesters' freedom of speech--it's very Orwellian to me. And with the recent heavy-handed tactics (see here [indymedia.org], here [indymedia.org], here [indymedia.org], here [indymedia.org], and here [indymedia.org]) of various agencies, I certainly wouldn't doubt loads of crazy surveillance in the off-time. (SIDE NOTE: In London, during the peaceful [that is if it wasn't for the cops rioting] May Day protesters were surrounded, detained in the streets, and not allowed to disperse until all activists had given their names, addresses, and had mugshots taken.)
    "When people fear the government, there is tyranny. When government fears the people, there is liberty."

    -- Thomas Paine
    Get the truth (or at least the other side of the story): Read the Independant Media Center [indymedia.org].

  • Re:So? (Score:4)

    by Sir_Winston ( 107378 ) on Saturday May 05, 2001 @09:32AM (#244702)
    > In the FBI's defense, they are saddled with "justifying" everything within the law.
    > The CIA and NSA, on the other hand, can break the law all day long and get away with it.
    > Different structures, different sets of accountability.

    Well, the FBI gets singled out because, of all the agencies you mention, the FBI is the only one that's a consistent threat to the American people themselves. The FBI and ATF together are, in my opinion, the most egregeous threat to civil liberties in this country. Waco and Ruby Ridge aren't even what I'm talking about, although they were absolutely horrendous. What I'm talking about is the fact that the FBI, even after J. Edgar Hoover's reign of terror, has spied on citizens without cause or warrant, kept dossiers on people based merely on political beliefs, and with the ATF seems to raid everyone who collects legal guns as per our 2nd Amendment rights if a "flag" goes up--i.e., don't own too many guns, or just a few guns and have non-mainstream political ideals.

    Contrast this with the NSA and CIA. The latter doesn't even investigate Americans, and even if they did they're concerned with intelligence. The CIA doesn't care if you have a bunch of fanatical religious followers living with you in Texas, have unusual political beliefs and a survivalist mentality, own two hundred firearms, operate a terabyte RAID array of copyrighted mp3s, pirated DivXs, and hardcore child pornography, grow massive fields of marijuana and coca, evade your taxes, and do all sorts of other major and minor violations. In fact, they'd likely just discard any such information unless it could prove useful to them, since they are interested in things with important international ramifications or at least intelligence interest, not minor domestic affairs. They probably would just destroy info on you, or at least lock it up rather than passing it on, if you are a U.S. citizen caught up in their intel. And I say this as someone who used to have lengthy dinners with a former Deputy Director of the CIA each weekend, who was fond of talking policy if understandably not willing to talk about some things. The only threat the CIA ever posed to us was their experimentation with drugs and radiation on some unsuspecting citizens back in the 50s and 60s, which was horrible but confined to a small number of people and would be too risky to do these days.

    And as for the NSA, they're charged with domestic intelligence and security issues and do not care about most things the FBI and ATF would be all over. They may consult on code cracking, but all in all they're not much of a threat compared to the FBI and ATF.

    And then there's the IRS, but that's another matter entirely... ;-)

  • if you eat your chicken funny, you may be suspect

    Nah, there are very few ways you can eat chicken that are illegal. For the ways that are illegal, it's generally in state jurisdiction instead of federal - there aren't a lot of federal-level sex crimes.

    -- fencepost

  • Clarification (Score:5)

    by SirWhoopass ( 108232 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @01:20PM (#244704)
    The CNN article is reporting that the requests for internet wiretaps is up since 1997. The EPIC information is showing the actual number of taps for each year. It also indicates that the number of taps is increasing (except for state taps, which are down from 1998 to 1999, but up from 1997 to 1999).
  • But consider this: the FBI is tasked with doing things "legally." So while the NSA and CIA operate as a black hat (illegal) operation, they can still pass intelligence on to the FBI guys. No matter that evidence was gathered illegally, just as long as it "looks" like it was. I'm wondering if that's the FBI's job.

    I mean, as much as I love technology, it seems that we are moving into an era where technology is used to oppress the average person.

    People say, "I don't have anything to hide," but forget that the Fourth Amendment has nothing to do with protecting wrongdoers. Its existence has everything to do with keeping in check the power of kings, tyrants and their dysfunctional police forces!

    Anyone who has too much power will abuse it. History shows this to be true. People won't stand for being oppressed by technology. However, the British people living with constant surveillence really baffles me. What were they thinking? Isn't the murder rate in all of the UK about 5/year? And in NYC alone it's about 300/year? The British are a disappointment, but they either "rule the world" or they rule their own people I suppose. Where's the middle ground in the UK? There's obviously not much belief in liberty there. And that's pretty sad since Americans share so much in common.

  • So? (Score:3)

    by Muttonhead ( 109583 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @05:10PM (#244706)
    "In July, the Tampa, Florida, field office sent an e-mail to other agents, including Thomas at the FBI lab, offering a slide show explaining how a militia group used the Internet to communicate."

    So what? Is being a militia group illegal? Does everybody need to be monitored?

    Was being a cult in Waco illegal? It's not something I would choose, but whatever they did, it was bad enough to be burned to death.

    As long as the FBI doesn't break that law as part of enforcing the law, I have no problem with what they do. But history shows this group routinely breaks the law. At some point you either shit or get off the pot: enforce the law or leave people the hell alone.

    In the FBI's defense, they are saddled with "justifying" everything within the law. The CIA and NSA, on the other hand, can break the law all day long and get away with it. Different structures, different sets of accountability.

    Someday, consiousness will expanded, until then, do your best. Until then, know that the prison guards are often as sick as the inmates.

  • The point the original poster was making was that if the DID, who would know? The FBI, to the best of our knowledge, has no secret divisions, nothing aside from current investigations that they may keep from the public.

    The NSA and CIA, on the other hand, do. If the NSA did domestic surveillance, and didn't want anyone to know, then they could.

    The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.

  • Comrade, you must be mistaken. The Hate lasts only for two minutes, and we still hate Emmanuel Goldstein [2600.com]. BTW, have you got any razor blades?

    ~~~

  • If you had the power to spy on anyone you wanted without them knowing, would you? Everything starts out with good intentions but eventually gets corrupted.

  • Don't do anything illegal since most people don't get their phones tapped for the hell of it.

  • It's true, they don't care about what porn sites you browse or how you cheated on your final. If your not going to blow up a major city or assasinate government officials then you have no need to hide anything.
  • Are they easier to get?

    It could be that the agents know what the rules are and are complying with the rules.

    I am not arguing that their compliance is valid. They could be telling lies to comply.

  • I thought the FBI was for the good of the people, I can see why the CIA would do something like this, but why the FBI? I know, I know, expect nothing that is logicial out of the U.S. government.

    You are fooling yourself. Use your favorite search engine and look up the word "COINTELPRO" and then come back and tell us you have nothing to fear and the FBI "was for the good of the people"

    WAKE THE FUCK UP!

  • How the fuck is this propoganda informative. Dumbass moderators should read the other stories on that page. All kinds of conspiracy crap, sounds like a mix of right wing militia types and left-wing potheads. Go ahead mod me down, won't hurt me any. You'll run out of mod points before I lose the ability to post

    Yea, that's right, shit-head. Go stick your head in the sand. They are not after you. You have nothing to hide. It's all been made up by left-wing potheads. That right, open another beer, watch some more TV. It's all bread and circuses. When the day comes when you are standing in front of a gate trying to figure out what "Arbeit Macht Frei" means then you will know we were not kidding. And you are not allowed to have a surprised look on your face.

  • The CIA wouldn't do something like this. They're too busy propping up banana republics and fighting South American druglords (competition sucks). ;)
  • Considering the main deterrent to placing a wiretap in the past has been the number of hoops one has to jump through to get one.

    So, they're getting easier to get, or the Feds don't mind jumping through those hoops so much anymore.

    I'm not sure which I find more disturbing.

  • Get it right for crying out loud!

    It's "SET UP US THE BOMB"

    Amazing this tired overworn bit of unintended Japanese-to-English humor is misquoted almost everywhere!
  • "The group's leader pleaded guilty and was sentenced last year for planning to break into military facilities to steal explosives and blow up energy facilities in southeastern states."

    That's what you get for tying to SET US UP THE BOMB !!!
    --
  • But I don't have anything to hide.

    Except your identity.

  • Non-FBI Wiretaps (Score:4)

    by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @02:10PM (#244720)
    These reports just deal with federal wiretaps. Unfortunately, I know of no data gathered about wiretaps by state and local law enforcement agencies. According to this article [newtimesla.com], the Los Angeles Police Department conducted about 100,000 wiretaps thanks to some shady activity on the part of LAPD officers to make the wiretaps look legal. I would not be surprised if such practice was common among many state and local agencies.

  • That's incredible, yet totally believable based on Sims's historical idiocy on Slashdot. I think that deserves wider viewing.


    --

  • I found the article funny because the documents were so heavily censored - the FBI gets to eavesdrop on the public, but not vice-versa.

    No, michael, the FBI gets to eavesdrop on suspected criminals with the proper orders from a judge.

    And yes, michael, you do NOT get to eavesdrop on the FBI. Or do you think anyone should be able to find out the list of people in the Witness Protection Program? Or the list of undercover FBI agents?

    Sometimes I simply can't believe the things that Slashdot editors write.


    --

  • I think they call it the freedom of infomation act or something... try looking it up on google or something.

  • Well, CNN is often guilty of this sort of thing ... but I agree, I thought you needed to say that someone was an "alleged" perp until he was actually convicted.
  • Land line phone wire taps are not administered by the FBI but by the local phone company. Yes, conceivably cell phone taps could be done without cooperation of the phone company, but only at great expense of CPU time to attempt to break the security on those phones. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the effort required is non-trivial, and thus if more than a few such wiretaps are desired, it becomes a tremendous burden to break each and every cryptographic key protecting the voice convos.
  • You are very naive, my friend. Try reading some books on the drug wars or criminal justice ("Drug Crazy", "Smoke and Mirrors", "Going up the River")...it may open your eyes that the FBI are not just good guys trying to catch "criminals". By the way, for instance, 59% of all "criminals" who are convicted felons in the Federal prison system, many doing harsh sentences from 20 yrs to life, are non-violent drug users...drawing heavier sentences than most murderers or rapists... BTW, most of the wiretaps relate directly to the "war on (some) drug (users)". J
  • Lets face it, we have no idea what is really going on. The could be listening to us in many different ways without us knowing it. Lets imagine for a moment that the wiretaps are X, and govco (Government) wants us to think that the actual wiretaps are x/n (n>1). They ask the court for x/n wiretaps and do teh rest anyway. Who's to know the difference? Even if/where there are monitors who monitors the monitors? The point of all this? Presume your being listened to.

    The sysadmin's motto:

    You don't have to be paranoid to work here, but somebody will get you if you're not...

    I should know. I administrate a Linux-based network, complete with high security features. Yes, out of habit, I always assume some one is listening to my phone conversations. Does it mean that someone is? No, but paranoia is a good habit to be in as a sysadmin/netadmin.

  • I've got to agree with some of what you say, but I would like to point out that the NSA does not deal in domestic affars unless they are tied with external entities. Basically, they never spy on you unless you're dealing with Osama Bin-Laden, or the ilk.

  • Eh? (Score:2)

    by V50 ( 248015 )

    I'm from Canada and I'm wondering, what is this "Freedom of Information Act" and why is it called that if the Information apparently isn't free?


    --Volrath50

  • My advice: Get out and fucking vote!

    The big problem in Florida last year (and therefore everywhere this year) was that the dipshits don't make a habit of voting. The one time an election came around that they cared about, the state government didn't represent them. The Gov was W's brother and the Sec. O'State had been W's campaign manager. The people, who never bothered to vote in the past, got (deservedly) fucked.

    Look into the people running for office. Vote for someone sensible, not just for an irresponsible tax cut. Hell, try voting for a responsible [lp.org] tax cut for a change. You only get the government you deserve. Why vote for one that intrudes on you?

  • the FBI gets to eavesdrop on the public, but not vice-versa

    And you thought you lived in the land of the free? You've been a slave all along and did not know it. But don't feel bad, 99% the world is in slavery, slavery from communism on the left and capitalism on the right.
  • Did anyone else find it odd that the FBI's arguments in support of Carnivore point to its effectiveness in prosecuting alleged criminals?

    Given that critics oppose Carnivore for privacy / civil liberties reasons, arguing that its use leads to more arrests / convictions seems weird. I mean, throwing out the 4th amendment would lead to more arrests and convictions, I'm sure, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

    Seems like touting the effectiveness of Carnivore is just going to strengthen people's opposition to it. (Fine by me--it just seems like an dumb move on the part of the FBI.)

  • FBI Productivity... (Score:5)

    by DarenN ( 411219 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @01:50PM (#244734) Homepage
    in their cybercrime division?

    *Scene: Budgetary meeting on Capitol Hill*

    FBI rep: So, as you can see, numbers of cases solved are up, percentages of convictions are up, crime is down, and fraud is down.

    Senate committee: But here there is a 1% decrease [epic.org] in the number of wiretaps

    FBI: Yes, but...

    Senate committee: But in your annual report you committed to increases of....5%, wasn't it

    FBI: But....

    Senate committee: No buts, your productivity is clearly down in your cybercrime division. Your request for $2.5 million extra for your cybercrime division this year is denied until you meet your targets.

    FBI: But...

    Chairman : Shush

    FBI: B...

    Chairman : I've got a whole bag of "shush's" here all with your name on them. Now go.

    *FBI representative exits the room muttering "I hate you"*

  • crazy (Score:1)

    by laxny ( 413953 )
    I thought the FBI was for the good of the people, I can see why the CIA would do something like this, but why the FBI? I know, I know, expect nothing that is logicial out of the U.S. government.
  • do you think anyone should be able to find out the list of people in the Witness Protection Program? Or the list of undercover FBI agents?

    You know, it's interesting you mention that. I've been getting spam emails from a fellow named Yusef Ali ben Gabba trying to get me to buy this sort of stuff off his website.

    The prices aren't bad, but I have no use for it.

    --
    "Fuck your mama."

  • You're relaxing on the couch, watching the tv, when you hear your backdoor open.

    You're the goatse.cx guy aren't you? Please don't post that stuff anymore.

    --
    "Fuck your mama."

  • Sorry. I thought that said "tear" not "hear". Please disregard the previous comment.

    --
    "Fuck your mama."

  • Re:anyone know... (Score:4)

    by CaptainStormfield ( 444795 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @02:35PM (#244739)
    1) Pick up phone
    2) Call friend/enemy/PHB/random person
    3) Talk about doing lots of illegal stuff. Blowing up federal installations works well if you think you're being "tapped" by the FBI. Talk sticking up the local doughnut shop is a good bet if you're worried about the local fuzz.
    4) Wait. If the police break down your door and arrest you, you know that you've been wiretapped. If not, then you're home free.

  • Bias (Score:5)

    by Plague You ( 445958 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @02:26PM (#244740)
    The very first line of the CNN story displays an implicit collaborative bias:

    The FBI has used Internet eavesdropping tools to track fugitives, drug dealers, extortionists, computer hackers and suspected foreign intelligence agents, documents show.(bold-faced emphasis mine)

    Notice that of this list, only foreign intelligence agents are described as "suspected". Everyone else is given a "true" identifier, or at least one with no modifier indicating lack of certainity. This may seem like nit-picking, but contextual analysis of this nature certainly can give insight into the inherent biases of a given culture.

    So what does this mean? I interpret it as CNN implicitly assuming the FBI is correct in their allegations against these sub-groups with the possible exception of foreign spies. Perhaps this indicates a bewilderment to the point of denial that anyone would freely choose to spy on the US. Scary as that last inference is, it is nothing compared to the former. In essence, CNN is promulgating the belief that if you are under suspicion, then you probably are guilty.

    So much for the "liberal media" myth.

  • How can the amount of wire taps not go up?? Seriously. School shootings occuring almost regularly, somewhat recent bombings, etc, etc. It is for our own protection. Why not let the Feds do what they are put their to do and protect us. If they really were trying to screw us, don't ya think they woulda done it a long time ago?
    -------------
  • I agree with you! Thank you for adding your opinion!
  • While I don't approve of putting people down, I do agree that the FBI are only trying to stop criminals.
  • Is it necessary to swear? Generally, swearing is something that kids do to sound like adults. Adults can usually find more appropriate words to express their feelings.
  • Actually, I only have the PGPkey as a toy. My husband bought it for work, and I wanted to send him "I love you" messages so that he'd have to decrypt them before he can read them.
  • I doubt I've done anything that the FBI would care about. I've shoplifted at a local grocery store (and got caught). I've bought a magazine with nude pictures in it. *gasp* However, I don't do drugs, and I don't deal drugs. I'm not planning on blowing up any buildings, nor do I want to kill anyone.

  • nothing to hide (Score:3)

    by RegsHalley ( 447658 ) on Friday May 04, 2001 @03:15PM (#244747) Homepage
    I agree with the person that said, "I have nothing to hide." I can understand how people would want their privacy, but unless you have something to hide, why not let them read your emails? It's not like they're going to care if you send messages to your lover behind your wife/husband's back. All they're looking for are illegal things that people aren't doing.. aren't they?
  • Lets face it, we have no idea what is really going on. The could be listening to us in many different ways without us knowing it. Lets imagine for a moment that the wiretaps are X, and govco (Government) wants us to think that the actual wiretaps are x/n (n>1). They ask the court for x/n wiretaps and do teh rest anyway. Who's to know the difference? Even if/where there are monitors who monitors the monitors? The point of all this? Presume your being listened to.


    --
    Darthtuttle
    Thought Architect

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