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Censorship Your Rights Online

F*cked Company Cease-And-Desisted 129

Posted by jamie from the unlikely-confusion dept.
cecil36 writes "Visitors to F*cked Company (FC) were greeted with a cease and desist letter from Idealab!. Apparently, Idealab! is suing FC over the use of the logos of the companies that they own. FC is countering with fair use, stating that these companies have a bad financial record, and FC is making humor out of their situation." Whatever. Wake me when this one is over. Oh, and a caution to sensitive readers: click any nearby links and you will be forced to read the most foul of the foul words (you can't tell what I'm talking about, can you?, because I have cleverly inserted an asterisk to disguise the actual word).
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F*cked Company Cease-And-Desisted

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  • Hurray! Call me lame *you're lame!* but I'm happy that I can get my Fucked Company fix from work again. I didn't realize they had www.f---edcompany.com as well. Very cool.

  • Re:Isn't it... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Yeah, can do...

    Socratic irony is the pardon arriving right after you just drank the hemlock.

    glad to be of help...

  • Editorial License? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have cleverly inserted an asterix to disguise the actual word.

    Well Clever you!

    By the way, I believe that would be "asterisk".
  • Yeah, I lived in Boston for 5 years during college. Just graduated last week; now I'm back in CT. Thankfully, I didn't have to drive much when I was in school, but everyone I knew on campus did.

    - A.P.

    --
    * CmdrTaco is an idiot.

  • I was never entirely sure what the difference between irony and socratic irony is... could you explain it for me?
  • Re-read my post - that is what Socratic irony is. Feigning ignorance in asking someone to answer a question, in order to demonstrate that they don't know the answer. I really like the hemlock definition, though!
  • What's the matter with you people?? You have censor not only the site name (fuckedcompany.com) AND the goddamn URL??? (http://ww.f---edcompany.com) You have GOT to be kidding me. Here we are, visiting the one site that is supposedly fighting against online censorship and privacy viloation, yet you're still a bunch of pussies who can't even put the work FUCK FUCK FUCK in your damn HTML?

    You guys disappointed me today. Really. This is not flame bait. I am really pissed. You guys suck.
  • I personally! would not! trust any company! that insists! on using! punctuation! as a vital! part of their comapany! name! (period). This should! be a reason! itself for being! added to F*cked! Company's listing!

    Get F*cked, Idealab! :-)
  • sure, their public image may suffer. But f---edcompany.com has no obligation to make Idealab! look good. FC has a Constitutionally protected right to freely speak their mind about what they perceive as idiocy on the part of Idealab. They can make Idealab look like a bunch of utter morons if they want - that's the joy of free speech. Now, they can't go saying things that aren't true (i.e. libel), but other than that they have every right to parody. Whether or not Idealab's investors like the situation is really irrelevant - they can bitch and moan all they like, but it's not illegal or even (IMHO) immoral to point out what you see as stupidity.

    This includes making a parody of the logo (totally legal, ethical). IANAL so I dunno if using the *original* logo is legit under trademark law...I suspect it's not judging by past cases (in particular, there was an Intel parody site that was using the logo...they were forced to not use it - so they flipped the 'e' in the name backwards, and it was then legal)
  • The logo is public knowledge and disseminated as such for identification. Statement of fact, is a fundemental part of the first amendment. Trademark and copyright do not come into it. Yawn.

    Often wrong but never in doubt.
    I am Jack9.
  • Which idealab! property is being confused with Fucked Company? The only logo I know of that's at all similar to the Fucked Company logo is that of Fast Company, and I don't think they are owned/connected to idealab!. And even if they were, thanks to model citizens like Larry Flynt, parody is pretty well protected legally.

    So basically,what the hell is this all about?

    Yours truly,
    Mr. X
  • This is covered by fair use. That doesn't prevent companies from trying to bluster people into stopping doing things they don't like. Pud should just send polite replies pointing this out, and otherwise ignore the cease-and-desists.

    As far as the Fucked Company logo issue goes, one word. Parody.

    Yours truly,
    Mr. X
  • You can read right?
    FuckedCo!
    IdeaLab!
    Hmm.. it makes me sad that my tax dollars go to a public school that educates people who can't distinguish between the two words.
    [phpwebhosting.com]
    nerdfarm.org
  • Flock() is much funnier than fsck, maybe just because fsck is way overused.

    I equate the guys who use fsck to swear with the same guys who repeat the same non-funny Monty Python Holy Grail lines over and over...
  • Ok, they're funny, but not "repeat them every day" funny.

    "And I'll have you know that the castle scene filled with the young maidens lended itself to many a lonely night's fantasy in my early teen years."

    Too much information!
    But I'll admit the "Oral Sex" line right before the scene change makes me laugh every time though..
  • Obelix was cooler. Kind of goofy but cooler none the less. And they were Gauls ;)

  • I haven't figured out the word that most offends white males to a degree that they 'gasp' in a state of shock like those other words cause.
    There is no single word to make a white male's jaw drop. However, there are certain phrases that are virutally guaranteed to generate dramatic responses...
    • I'm pregnant
    • You're fired
    • Someone just keyed your Lexus

  • satire (Score:1)

    by acomj ( 20611 )
    is a protected element of "free speach"

    This allows political humour , celebrity humor , editorial and editorial cartoons.

    This is getting really really out of hand.

  • (you can't tell what I'm talking about, can you?, because I have cleverly inserted an asterisk to disguise the actual word)

    Oh, that so that is why my browser is showing 26 nearly identical words...then a bunch with accent marks...

  • Oh, it's too bad this didn't happen last week... For about a week I had been getting spammed by someone claiming to work for idealab!, and how much fun! it! is! They were having a recruiting party at some bar near MIT. Since I assumed it would not include a free and open bar, and be full of slimy "internet incubator" types, I went elsewhere. But this would have been great - getting sloppy drunk and interrogating everyone there about why they were suing! Until I were forcibly removed, of course...
  • I dunno, but their "cease and desist" letter is utterly illegible, due to their having a "!" on the end of every instance of "idealab".
    Fuckwits.
    ~Tim
    --
    .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
  • Yesterday this was the splash screen at FC.com, which got idealab all in a tizzy.
  • You misspelled "Browne" There's an "e" on the end.

    (Just trying to be funny).
  • Hmmmm.

    I thought the most foul of foul words was "Belg*um." The gratuitous use of this word can cause convulsion, hysteria, death and other stuff. At least according to THHGTTG. :-)

  • Theoretically, you can't use real trademarks in parodies. So, for example, using the Nike Swoosh or the Apple Rainbowapple in a parody ad isn't allowable under trademark law... which has very little fair use provision built in.

    Now, if you were to parody the LOGO in some way, as well, you'd be all right. So if you had an iFruit ad [foxtrot.com], that's fine. It's got the reference that people can get without being a complete copy.

    In its way, trademark law makes copyright laws look completely free. It's almost frightening.
    ----

  • So how many points is it worth to predict F*ckcompany.com will get sued by a loser company?
  • in reply to the two cats who replied to me,

    couple things:

    Xerithane, do you come from my home city? do i know you? if not, then you ain't paying for my schooling. it's sad to know someone who didn't learn in public school which tax dollars go where.

    second, Flailey,
    i was confused because i did what i thought was typing in "www.idealab.com" and got fc site, NOT because i cannot read. why is it that when someone isn't agreeing with the 'majority' they are somehow a "paid shill". i don't know either people who run the company from adam. i'm not anonymous--you see my website and email address above...i'm not affiliated with any of you or these other companies, i speak for myself. my guess however is that calling someone a "paid shill" is an easy way for you to dismiss whatever a dissenter says. please son, think before you post.

    j.

  • i went to fc yesterday (as i do everyday) and saw this--for goodness sake fc pretty much ripped off idealab's jpeg (down to the "idealab capital partners" in the left hand corner) and replaced it with companies. i thought idealab had gone out of business (further more, i actually thought some of the companies on the tag were owned by idealab; i remember thinking "tellme.com is owned by idealab?") so i opened a new browser and typed "www.idealab.com" and i SWEAR i was redirected back to fc -- maybe it was a fluke (or a hack?) who knows--the fact is, i was confused...

    at any rate, i could definitely see how idealab was misrepresented here. why in the world, right after getting in trouble with fast company would they go and rip off idealab for something as lame as a splash page anyway? is it the "cool factor" or recognition of getting in trouble with big companies? as much as i enjoy fc, my initial thought on this issue is "people grow up and be somewhat responsible".

    j.

  • I equate the guys who use fsck to swear with the same guys who repeat the same non-funny Monty Python Holy Grail lines over and over...

    I'm confused, non-funny lines don't even exist in Holy Grail! :-)

    And I'll have you know that the castle scene filled with the young maidens lended itself to many a lonely night's fantasy in my early teen years.

    (Rate: -1 for being silly...)

  • I don't get this. Are things different in the US from here in the UK? Here nobody really makes any fuss about the word fuck anymore, which practically interperses speech on TV and film. The one word people still don't use, and which is definitely the most foul of the foul and still offends, it 'cunt' - does nobody use it in the US, or does it just not have the same impact it does here?
  • http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/09/11/23412 50&cid=120 contained a relevant point regarding the origins of the c word, in an on topic discussion of comedian George Carlins `Seven Dirty Words' routine. Silly moderators marked me as a troll. Oh well.
  • Doh!

    Heheh, apparently he just does a generic find-n-replace on the http name without restricting it to link tags so I saw a doctored version of the cease & desist. ;)
  • No, the Gauls were of celtic origin.

  • I hope you don't mean ironic, 'cos Alanis Morrisette certainly didn't:

    Like rain on your wedding day - Ironic? No. Pain in the ass? Yes.
    Like a free ride when you already paid - Ironic? No. Bummer? Yes.

    This is an example of irony:

    The city transport secretary is late for a meeting about the city's traffic problems because he got stuck in a traffic jam.
  • ...or does idealab's website look like they ripped off one of apple's designs?
  • You can say that, but you would be more accurate if you said that Ford doesn't know how to inflate Firestone tires to the specified PSI. This page [theautochannel.com] gives a little information on that.
  • Who is Idealab? What do they do?
    Are they just jumping on the litigation bandwagon or something because I can't see how people can confuse one site with the other. Especially with the difference in content. Do they hope to get money/free publicity (sort of the same thing) or what?

    dnnrly

  • Regarding an earlier post about vulgarity in movies, I watched "Dumb and Dumber" in the theatre. If you watch it, you will note Jim Carrey's old lover was called "Freida Felcher". Absolutely no effect at all on the rest of the audience, I guess since felch probably has yet to penetrate [sic] the mainstream's vocabulary.

    ---
    "And the beast shall be made legion. Its numbers shall be increased a thousand thousand fold."
  • it is a violation of federal and state law to advertise, utilize, offer for sale, and/or engage in services utilizing the idealab! web site and logo designs without the express written permission of idealab! Actually what that states is you cant go to there website without express written permission. I wasnt even planning on it but im sorry, If i accidently hit there website I may owe them billions in legal fees. I think not.

    Next they will say its illegal to download there content :).

  • Nope. Firestone are only changing the recommended PSI AFTER the problem's come up. Maybe it'll solve it, maybe it won't, but the recommended PSI BEFORE the problem is exactly what Ford used.

    Also, other Firestone tyres of the same type from other Firestone plants are OK. Ford say that they asked Firestone repeatedly if there were any problems being reported, Firestone said no, and it wasn't until it was blindingly obvious that something was wrong that Firestone owned up to Ford.

    Difficult to know what's what with corporate finger-pointing though - it's all lawsuit-dodging. And this is all off-topic anyway.

    Incidentally, you're perfectly safe to say that Firestone has made dangerous tyres. It is a provable fact that in normal running conditions, a recent batch of tyres have, when set up properly, failed in a way which endangers the lives of the occupants of the car. Therefore they have made dangerous tyres. To say that they STILL MAKE dangerous tyres is where you'll get hit...

    Grab.
  • They`re not!

    Actually, i think it would be more accurate if some companies were to use them more.

    *_M_icro&soft?!
  • Judging by this copy of the FC logo [vfxweb.com] and the Idealab! [idealab.com] logo, the complaint was not that they were using a copy of the idealab logo as their own logo. Its not that they were saying that Idealab was a Fucked Company. Just that all the companies on the logo were.

    Since they weren't actually using this as a criticism of Idealab, their case is changed completely from showing it in connection with the company, to their right to parody. Unfortunately for FC, they aren't on as firm ground here. US law seems to demand that parody is satirizing the material that was copied. They would probably be well within their rights if Idealab had screwed up all those companies, but since they haven't, and they seem to have been using it as their own logo, they can't claim the right to parody.

  • I looked around on f*ckedcompany, and then looked at idealab. I see absolutly no similarities. Their page does not look like idealabs.

    Perhaps it does, in some esoteric way, resemble one of their affiliate companies. As far as I can tell, idealab doesn't own fastcompany. At least fastcompany isn't on their "idealab companies" list, and idealab isn't on fastcompanies list. And by comparing the two sites, they aren't even that similar. Yes, they both use close to the same color in their logo. But other than that, their color scheme and layout are different.

    Perhaps idealab is talking about another company? If so, which one? They are very vauge, and it would take a bit of research on f*ckedcompanies part to figure out just which site they where infringing on...which isn't their job. As in a search warrant, idealab has to be more precise in their cease-and-desist if it is to stand up in court. Not this "you doing some stuff that's like some of our stuff" crap.

  • Under the laws allowing parody Idealab! is out to lunch. The parody site is no more than Mad Magizine has been doing for decades. It dosn't infringe on Idealab!'s trademark at all since it is extensively CHANGED, i.e. *parodied*, rather than duplicated.

    Idealab! seems to be complaining that the 'look and feel' of their 'logo', ( site layout really), is retained enough so that people know it's THEM that is being parodied. Give me a break.

    The ironic thing is that F*cked Company IS in violation of various trademarks whose owners would have a legitimate right to complain, such as GoTo.com and eToys. THEIR logos remain intact and unparodied in the spoof page.

    Idealab! is the ONLY one of the effected companies with no legal standing for a complaint.

    They also appear to be humorless jerks. Go figure.
  • You S*r, are in grave danger of being called before a *ouse committie and being asked if you are, or ever have b**n a m*mber of the *********** political p*rty.
  • Freedom of speach gives him the right to be an asshole so long as his "assholeness" is restricted to his speach.

    Free speach gives him the right to yell asshole things at trees falling in the forest with nobody to hear them, or on a crowded street where nobody cares.

    Free speach ALSO gives you the right to mutter, "Asshole," and continue about your won business, which, as it happens, is just what the moderators did.

    Moderation isn't censorship, * it's an expression of free speach!*
  • Got to admit, that christian review is almost funnier than the movie.
  • Damn, I'm sure sueing FC would have been a sign of an impending self-fuck!

    I love that site - watching the self-implosion of the dot-non-ecomony is just so entertaining, especially today's ironic report that DomainAuctions.com was auctioning, err, it's own address!

  • How fucking stupid do you have to be to confuse "fastcompany" with "FUCKEDcompany"?

    What's so different about 'fuck' and 'fast?' Both concepts seem pretty related to me. I mean, when does it take longer than two minutes to--um...

    Nevermind.

    --
  • Yeah, yeah... I know you're not a paid shill... if you've been hanging out on the FC message boards though, there have been a bunch of postings from new handles claiming "confusion" this morning. So I suspect these guys are up to something similar to that.

    Although you apparently are speaking for yourself... I do question any claims of confusion. It doesn't really seem like anyone who was not familiar with and actively seeking out fuckedcompany would see that splash page, nor would they confuse that with idealab (I'll point out the word FUCK in large type again here) if they did.

    You're problem appears to be not paying attention to which browser window you are in. That's not cause to remove first amendment parody protections, IMHO.
  • Here's another paid shill. In order for idealab(!) to have anything at all they have to prove confusion... Check the C+D letter for that. That's why these random people are showing up on the message boards earnestly claiming they were confused. Bull - Shit. So you saw the word FUCK in giant letters on the screen after you typed "fuckedcompany.com" in your browser, and thought that you were actually at idealab? Right, dude. Hope you're paid well for this.

  • OpenSales.org (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    oh, man
    i gotta leak this email from our [Opensales.org] CEO

    Hi Everyone --

    Some of you may have seen the recent front page of the F***ed Company humor site that mocks the idealab! front page, which includes a small graphic of an old OpenSales logo. The F***ed Company Web site people apparently didn't take the time to remove our logo--even though we're a software company that provides commerce solutions for a variety of businesses and not a dot-com with a business model no one understands. I'm as much of a fan of parody and humor as much as the next person and I also believe in free speech. I just like my satire to be accurate.

    Best,
    Bonnie

  • In fact, idealab! has already received evidence of actual confusion regarding idealab!'s affiliation with your web site.

    How fucking stupid do you have to be to confuse "fastcompany" with "FUCKEDcompany"? Anyone who confuses the two needs to be shot in the head. Morons.

    - A.P.

    --
    * CmdrTaco is an idiot.

  • Today, IdeaLab! sent out a C&D letter an un-named parody website who's commentary apparently hit too close to the truth for IdeaLab!'s comfort. Severity: 30

  • This is the URL for the parody F
    uckedCompany.Com did:

    Ooooh, you're in trouble now... you reverse-engineered jamie's incredibly powerful encryption scheme, obviously so that you can illegally copy /. headlines. I smell a DMCA lawsuit...

  • ...that would be "felch".
    --
  • I wonder whether idealab will sue Bainlab [bainlab.com] for the same reason? (hmmm, think I missed them off the lameness list [demon.co.uk]... "a mistake I don't mean to dooplicate" - check Bainlab in mozilla... heh, they really 'get' this "web thing", ay!
  • The ironic thing is that F*cked Company IS in violation of various trademarks whose owners would have a legitimate right to complain, such as GoTo.com and eToys. THEIR logos remain intact and unparodied in the spoof page.

    Well, actually those logos/trademarks have been "modified" by having other logos placed in front of them, overlapping and clipping their edges, etc.

    However, since taken as a whole, together, it is obvious that no single company, logo, or trademark is being represented as "fuckedcompany.com" or even "fuckedideas.com" or whoever the complaining jerks are who are being paradied, and the use is noncommercial to boot, the law is clearly in favor of the defendents. Should the antagonists then try to employ copyright law, fair use will become relevant, and blow them right out of the water.

    Idealab! are indeed jumorless jerks -- soon to be penniless jerks as well as their dotcom dreams go the way of so many others: into the toilet.

    The implosion will be lent additional humor in context of their current, aggressively hypocritical behavior. I shall enjoy watching it immensly, chortling "Bzzt! Thank you for playing!" when it is all over.
  • I don't think that anyone can state anything about anyone or anything as "fact". You can say "it is my belief that: such and such". Or "it is in our opinion that: such and such". When criticizing people and products, you have to be extremely careful. Just as you have to be careful when naming products: You can name a drink "Slim Fast" but you can't name it "Dietary Drink" and then write under it "Slims you fast"... It's all about representations... I'm not a lawyer, though, but i did spend some time in advertising.
  • Do! they! realize! just! how! stupid! ending! your! company!'s name! with! a!
    exclamation! point! looks! when! you! have! to! reference! your! company! in! print!?

    ...Almost as dumb as putting colons in product names...

    --K
    Mod down as Flamebait or Troll.
    ---
  • Was anyone else dissapointed to click through the C&D to find the 1dea7ab (no infringment there!) wasn't the fuck of the day

  • The whole fsck=fuck joke has never been very funny.

    Not even the first time.
  • People can be assholes whether they speak their minds or not, and I prefer it when assholes advertize the fact to the world John Rocker-style instead of hiding their asshole actions behind bullshit rationalizations. It makes them that much easier to ignore.
  • Be careful - you can say two things:

    a)Firestone sucks/is fucked.

    No problem there, thats your opinion.

    b)Firestone makes dangerous tires.

    Be careful - better be able to back up your comment, otherwise that's libelous/slanderous (I'm not saying that it isn't *true*, but the second case u better be ready to PROVE it, and have a lawyer handy. Certain types of disparaging remarks will land u in court - and for good reason. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that u don't have to answer for your words).

    IANAL
    j
  • Anyway, back to FC... As long as they're using the IdeaLab! logo's to make fun of IdeaLab!, they're clear...

    Right if the graphic in question is a parody, it is protected speech.

    If they're using the Idealab! design and logo to make fun of other companies, then they could be in trouble

    If the graphic in question is satire, it is not protected speech.

    And of course, this is only within the context of intellectual property claims. Both satire and parody are protected in the context of whether or not the government is allowed to censor the speech in question.

    If they're doing both, then they're probably okay, as the fair use should hold.

    Now, we part ways, the one case I can remember (regarding the satire of the O.J. Simpson trial told in the manner of Dr. Seuss) seemed to rule the other way. Then again, this was a jury trial so it might just have been an issue of bad taste that the jurors found more compelling than legal arguments.

    have a day,

    -l

  • As always, IANAL, but I believe the following to be correct. Please consult legal counsel before interpreting my opinion as the correct interpretation of law in your locality.

    Within the context of using other people's copyrighted intellectual property, satire is not a protected form of speech in the US. Parody, on the other hand, is.

    What's the difference? According to Webster:

    satire. n. a literary work in which vices, follies, etc. are held up to ridicule and contempt.

    parody. n. a farcical imitation of a literary or musical work or style.

    OTOH, both parody and satire are protected forms of speech in the context that the the government cannot censor them without trodding on the bill or rights.

    So there are two seperate issues here.

  • I think 'cunt' is only the most offensive among the female population. I'm guessing because to many of them became proud of the other derogatory term 'bitch'. Those who could be defined as 'cunt's have no sense of humor either. Like that time I sent the ticking clock to the abortion clinic; they just didn't get the humor in it. Ah well. *thats a joke, laugh!*

    There are for most segments of the population a word which is the most offensive for that group. 'cunt' being for females, whereas blacks are none to fond of hearing the word 'nigger' out of the mouth of a white person. I haven't figured out the word that most offends white males to a degree that they 'gasp' in a state of shock like those other words cause. *shrug*

    -- Greg
  • Maybe they should've taken out the "idealab capital partners" label there.
  • I prefer to use flock() myself...
  • Also, a C&D letter doesn't absolutely confirm that the sender is a bunghole, but it's at least a heads up that they might be.
    --
  • This has nothing to do with censorship.

    The use of * instead of 'u' in the title of this article is, I presume, a courtesy to those who do not enjoy profanity on their homepages when they log into the Internet at work, etc.
  • My friend just found out that he was listed in the cease and desist by creating a personal perl script that parses that site and replaces those particular 'u' characters with '*'. Supposedly he only set it up for the three of us but its in the letter...interesting.

    http://www.zuhause.org/cgi-bin/fcproxy.pl

    Has anyone else ever used this link to view the site?

    -Vel
  • Sh*t, I never knew the *nix was a dirty word all this time.

  • "Your freedom to swing your arm ends where my nose begins.&quot
    --John Stuart Mill

    The fact is that even commercial ventures may assume an identity. Trademark law is one such effort to give the machine that is a corporation a name. Likewise, these corporations must defend their names much in the same way you or I might have to do with our names.

    Because I am still researching, I have only a simple understanding of this topic, but... here goes a try.. it most certainly won't be a hole-in-one!

    We are given the freedom of speech in the form of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, one of ten which make up the Bill of Rights. Throughout its existence, the wording of the First Amendment has not been modified; the meaning, however, has--based on numerous interpretations. Our Supreme Court has heard many cases involving Free Speech issues, each introducing new complexities, eaching requiring and interpretation of the Constitution so that it may be applied to the said case.

    Ok, this is where i decided that I would be lazy and give up on typing this out (anybody wanna finish?).. I leave you with the following:

    • Defamation - attack on another person's good name and reputation
    • slander - spoken defamatory remark
    • libel - defmatory remark often in written form

    -Andrew Dvorak: Slashdot Critic


  • I can't believe they put Pixelon in there!! They are ruining Pixelon's good name-- I'll have to sue.

    Note to the Clue-Impaired: Pixelon was the company which turned out to be run by a con man, who spent 20 million in VC before people caught on that his 'revolutionary streaming video technology is actually windows media player. Let's see if they send a C&D.

    I'm just racking up the FC points by betting on FC! Severity: 50, Points: 125!

  • it is a violation of federal and state law to advertise, utilize, offer for sale, and/or engage in services utilizing the idealab! web site and logo designs without the express written permission of idealab!

    So I guess they are getting them on utilize (what service do f*ckedcompany offer...humour)? Is this really US Law? Is it the simple case that any use of any copyright image is illegal and subject to cease and desist? Can the companies who have topics on /. place the same cease and desists?

    It seems like f*ckedcompany.com is down at the moment so I can't get in to look at what they had but I really would have thought the words "Fair Use" and "Free Speach" would cover this quite easily. If not I guess F*ckedcompany is a F*ckedcompany themselves.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I guess there are superficial resemblances between the logos (the lower case "u" and "o", and how they are located in the words). Since Fast Company started in 1995 it is easy to see how F*cked Company sort of spun off from the original name in a weekend party after a few drinks. One of those crazy net ideas that goes someplace. All said, it looks like F*cked Company is not now a specific parody/satire of Fast Company, but has developed a life of its' own as a legitimate web-info tool. This compared to GWBush.com [gwbush.com], a legitimate and obvious parody site in the political campaign.

    Of course, the question now becomes, how would you get from Fast Company to F*cked Company while looking at the first site. It is obvious how someone could get to the Bush satire site. But it seems like you would have to make too many typos to mistake F*cked Company for Fast Company. Similarity of graphics aside.

    - - - - - - - -
    "Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem."

  • ok... looks like i was wrong....

    I found this link to this image.. I have no idea where it was located on the fuckedcompany web site..

    http://www.vfxweb.com/fuckedlab.gif [vfxweb.com]

    its a parody though... so idealab is sol....
  • From the idealab! letter:

    In addition, your infringing use also dilutes the distinctiveness of the idealab! web site and numerous logo designs by trading upon the goodwill and reputation that the public associates with these designs.

    Looking at it from the perspective of idealab! its actually a viable concern that their own public image will suffer as a result of f*ckedcompany using a modification of their logo.
    If you were an investor, would you really want to put in your hard earned money to a place who (if you've seen the f*cked company website) almost declares its own upsoming downfall?
    I think in the spirit of simple mockery (i.e., mentioning idealab! in one of its lists of the doomed) using the name and maybe even the correct logo is ok, as long as it stays associated with the correct company and is not modified... but using the logo as they do f*ckedcompany is guilty of being a collective jerk.
  • You're missing the point.

    That's much more than a law. It's the First Amendment to the Constitution. It is the basis upon which our society is built. The instant we begin to pick and choose what speech is covered, we begin to erode the foundation of this nation.

    It scares me to think how often this argument has to be made. OTOH, 'Freedom of Speech' means being able to say 'We should limit freedom of speech.'
  • This topic has been covered so many times that this entire thread should be modded down as redundant.
  • Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
  • Though IANAL,I'm considering it, and I've taken a couple of law courses (one on entertainment law...). Please hold back on any "Don't do it!!!" comments, unless you *are* a lawyer...

    Anyway, from what I remember, *both* satire and parody are protected... however, when it ties into trademark issues, it's not quite as clear. You're allowed to use a trademark for the purposes of parody. In the classic example that's almost always used, you've got the 2Live Crew version of 'Pretty Woman'... They made fun of the Orbison 'Pretty Woman' song, using the tune but changing the lyrics to make it funny, and when it went to the Supreme Court, the court ruled in favor of 2Live Crew. (Yeah, I know the song is a copyright issue and not trademark, but it's still IP, and AFAIK, still legit)

    Satire is different. You cannot use a trademark for satire... you cannot use the CBS (TV station for those not in the US) trademark to make fun of others through satire, for the obvious reason that it could be misunderstood... People could think that CBS is actually ridiculing the target. Granted, the line between parody and satire is pretty grey sometimes... that's why it often ends in court.

    Anyway, back to FC... As long as they're using the IdeaLab! logo's to make fun of IdeaLab!, they're clear... If they're using the Idealab! design and logo to make fun of other companies, then they could be in trouble (I haven't had a chance to look at the sites yet... damn work). If they're doing both, then they're probably okay, as the fair use should hold.

    Oh, and going to the libel/slander issue brought up with Firestone tires, you can say that they are shitty tires, but you can be legitimately sued for it. You'd lose unless you could prove your accusation to be correct. The way to think about it is to look at the extremes... If a company goes out and says that their competitor's product kills kids, the competitor could conceivably lose a lot of revenue. Libel allows to correct for this. If the product did kill kids, then it's no longer libel, and it's legal. Likewise, to say that Firestone has shitty tires could be deemed libelous, unless you could prove otherwise...

    The Random Utinni

    'Where am I going, and what am I doing in this handbasket?'

  • Colons in product/company names could make sense in some cases. Like a proctology practice.

    :Clinic

  • I don't understand. What's so dirty about Fsck?

    Axel

  • Fair use is extremely powerful, but it must be used with caution, because those who claim it must be able to justify that their use is not infringing on the market of those whose material they use. There are several tests for "fair use" which include whether the user is making money, whether they are taking marketspace, and so forth. This present situation is dangerous, as are all copyright violations, because freedom of speech is at the core, but money is intertwingled, which makes the law ACTUALLY QUITE SIMPLE, but lawyers get creative with it nevertheless. Supreme Court won't even look at a case like this until ten or fifteen similar ones have been proposed to them, since the the current body of law is pretty full on the issue. Disclaimer about law: One "good" lawyer can stop the bullshit of a thousand typical lawyers. It's just that there's only one per ten thousand who currently qualify.

  • Most foul of foul words.... (Score:3)

    by blkmajik ( 3321 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @07:23AM (#754015)
    Hmmm... I have prolems with Fuck being the most foul of foul words.

    Say for instance you go to a weight watchers meeting (mostly women I have noticed) and asked the participants if Fuck is the most foul of foul words. Most will probably say yes, until you also mention the word Cunt. It has been my experience that Cunt is the foulest word of all (at least here in the US)

    Any one else agree with me that Cunt should be labeled as the most foul of foul words?

    How many men does it take to open a beer??
    None.

  • the c-word is almost guaranteed to offend (Score:3)

    by brokeninside ( 34168 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @07:43AM (#754016)

    In my experience, the c-word is indeed the only word in the English language virtually guaranteed to offend everyone present. I've yet to bring the word up in conversation and not have everybody offended. In high school, I used to get a game going by saying I could offend every woman present with just two words. The first, douche-bag, would offend about 95% of those present. The smug looking remaining five percent would almost inevitably gasp in unision when I uttered the dreaded c-word.

    I've often wondered what makes it so profane.

    A far as the f word goes, its decline as a 'shocker' is perhaps due to the current prevalence of its presence in media of all types. Once you hear a word 10,000 times while sitting through a single action movie, it just doesn't have quite the same impact as it used to.

    Hopefully movie-makers won't catch on anytime soon and some words will continue to offend....

    regards,

    -l

  • Re:the c-word is almost guaranteed to offend (Score:3)

    by brokeninside ( 34168 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @08:54AM (#754017)

    Some people don't get it.

    If you enjoy upsetting people so.. then why do you use 'c-word' and 'f-word'

    I enjoy a good wine, but that doesn't mean I want to use it on my corn flakes.

    If you don't grok that, consider the following: Just because I find something to be fun, doesn't mean that I want to do it all the time.

    After all, variety is the spice of life. And the more frequently offensive language is used, the less offensive it becomes.

    Is anyone else old enough to remember when NIN's 'sex crime' video first started playing in night clubs? What impressed me the most the first time I saw it wasn't the graphic violence but the fact that an entire dance floor full of hardened goths, punks, alternatives, etc. had stopped dancing entirely and were staring slack-jawed at the screen. That is a powerful statement. Good old Trent managed to shock the whole scene full of rejects.

    But then, by the end of the month everyone was used to the video and mostly ignored the formerly shocking scenes of mutilation. The shock had lost its effect.

    If you want to shock, be tight fisted with your profanity. A zinger at the correct time and place makes a much, much stronger statement than ad naseum repetition.

    have a day,

    -l

  • You're dead wrong. (Score:3)

    by blameless ( 203912 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @06:40AM (#754018)
    Freedom of speech absolutely gives him the right to be an asshole.

    It gives him the right to express himself even if nobody wants to listen.

    It does not require him to say anything relevant, meaningful, or even truthful.

    That being said, Slashdot certainly has the right to ban any user for any reason, even feeding trolls.

  • Re:Fair Use (Score:3)

    by Kickasso ( 210195 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @05:51AM (#754019)
    This IS protected by fair use. Um, no, it isn't. The trademark law basically says "don't use other people's trademarks if such use leads to confusion between you and these other people". Now, if you're creating a parody of the logo, you are using the logo. The confusion part should make TFC safe, because nobody's going to confuse TFC with idealab!, or TFC's products with idealab!'s ("heck, can you ever form a possessive of something that ends in exclamation point?"'s a gratuitous joke inserted in the middle of a sentence to make you laugh) products.

    IANAL, but my second cousin plays one on TV.
    --

  • IdeaLab may not be *able* to sue... (Score:3)

    by lwagner ( 230491 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @07:02AM (#754020)

    IdeaLab! is not suing just yet, but it is going through the procedure to get their name removed from the page. This includes a formal warning that FuckedCompany.com is potentially liable for infringements on certain aspects of IdeaLab's IP.

    The formal filing of a complaint does not take place until later, if FuckedCompany.com (or the guy who runs it, Pud) does not comply with a written letter and IdeaLab decides the case is worth fighting in courts.

    If IdeaLab is going under and trying to gain additional funding, however, they would not want to further the humiliation by formally suing about having their company posted, causing more publicity to the fact that they are, well, fucked.

    The other thing to consider is their ability to sue - if much of IdeaLab's venture capital is contained in their fixed assets (e.g., computer stuff) and maintaining their employee overhead, then they will not have the ability to do more than send off threatening letters. A threatening letter costs ~$200 from an attorney; a lawsuit costs much, much more... and not only in terms of money.

    Lucas



    --
    Spindletop Blackbird, the GNU/Linux Cube.

  • Fair Use (Score:4)

    by jekk ( 15278 ) <mcherm@mcherm.com> on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @05:11AM (#754021) Homepage
    I think that this is a wonderful example of Fair Use. The Fair Use exception was built into copyright law EXPLICITLY to permit people to criticize, and/or make light of things in situations where the owner of the copyright might object.

    Unfortunately, IANAL, but as far as I know there IS NO exception for "fair use" built into TRADEMARK law. Which is what this is. So f*ckedcompany should create a parody of the logo, and use that. This IS protected by fair use.

    -- Michael Chermside

  • Actually, smiling at people on the street is subject to a cease and desist letter under US law. In fact, ANYTHING is subject to a cease and desist letter... it's just a letter! The letter has no legal significance EXCEPT for one small thing: after having received such a letter, the recipient cannot claim "I didn't know about it" as a defense. So they're used only in cases of IP infringement, where "I didn't know about it" is sometimes a valid defense. If you think that you have a RIGHT to use the image/text/soundbite/idea/whatever, then you can go ahead and use it despite having received the letter... however, if you consult a lawyer, then the odds are VERY good that they will advise you to play it safe and stop "infringing". But the letter itself has NO legal significance.

    Also worth noting is the fact that "fair use" does not apply to trademark law (as far as I know, IANAL).

    -- Michael Chermside

  • Re:Fair Use (Score:4)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @06:24AM (#754023) Homepage
    Yeah, infringement happens for commerce only. See 15 U.S.C. Sec 1114 [cornell.edu]:
    • Any person who shall, without the consent of the registrant -

    • (a) use in commerce any reproduction, counterfeit, copy, or colorable imitation of a registered mark in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of any goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive; or
      (b) reproduce, counterfeit, copy, or colorably imitate a registered mark and apply such reproduction, counterfeit, copy, or colorable imitation to labels, signs, prints, packages, wrappers, receptacles or advertisements intended to be used in commerce upon or in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive,
      shall be liable in a civil action by the registrant for the remedies hereinafter provided.

    --

  • Re:Fair Use (Score:4)

    by RalphSlate ( 128202 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @05:45AM (#754024) Homepage
    My impression (IANAL) is that trademark law comes into play for *commerce only*.

    You couldn't get into trademark trouble for showing the idealab! logo and saying "This is the idealab! logo -- they are a screwed up company". You are not trying to pass yourself off as them. You are not trying to steal their business by using their logo. You are not trying to make it look like they endorse you. That's the end of the tradmark area.

    As for copyright, you can apply fair use to their argument that you're violating their copyright.

    Ralph

  • Fr** Spe*ch (Score:5)

    by Voltage_Gate ( 69001 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @06:03AM (#754025)
    I am t*red of my r*ghts being trampled. Seems all oru p*liticians are trying to c*nsor the web. I can't say "f*cked". Wh*t's n*xt? Soon any w*rds, th*ughts, expr*ss*ons are g*ing to b* c**sored because my *deas don't happen to agree with people like J** Lib**mann and T*pper G*re. I'm going to do the only thing I can in a d*m*cracy. I'm v*ting for the candidate ***** *. *****. I hope that by joining the *********** party, I will be doing something to preserve **** speach. Thank ***.

  • This is the URL for the parody FuckedCompany.Com did:

    FuckedLab.gif [vfxweb.com]

    It's a parody, which is protected by US Constitution (and it's a right that has been defended successfully in the Supreme Court). For the parody to REALLY be funny, look at Idea Lab's site [idealab.com] Pretty much a perfect parody, design wise! Best part - eToys is in the dead center of the pile, on both IdeaLabs and FuckedCompany's version!

  • Note to idealab! (Score:5)

    by pallex ( 126468 ) on Tuesday September 26, 2000 @05:52AM (#754027)
    1) Do you think this sort of action:

    a) Evokes a favorable disposition towards your company in the eyes of people who`ve never heard of it before?
    b) Makes you look like a clueless bunch of tossers?

    2) As a result of this action, do you think your company will perform:

    a) Better than before?
    b) Worse than before?
    c) Wont make any difference, but will make you look like a clueless bunch of tossers?

    3) Do you understand the concept of satire, and recognize that it is specifically protected, even under current U.S. law?

    a) Yes
    b) No
    c) Dont know, we`re just a clueless bunch of tossers.

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