...in times of "communism", there was far more freedom than it gets to be in the US. It's sad that a country that boasts to be the most 'free' in the world, slowly becomes another empire of evil, democracy no longer fulfilling its purpose, law in hands of corporations, money being the highest value, crime and violence becoming leading powers driving the economy. It's just sad.
You know, if you're going to burn your karma, you might as well bring some facts to the table to back it up. Heck, just post in Polish, Im sure we could Babel fish a translation from ya.
Except of really absolutely necessary laws, the only limitation was: Don't fight the system. At least, not from outside. Which means: You could join the party, climb the career ladder and once gaining significant power, help guiding the system towards something more 'accessible'. And that was often done. They stopped condemning rock music, instead they pursued engaging it on their side (see the Manaam band), they had to ballance giving as much freedom to people against bec
it wasn't freedom that people fought for. It was the shiny shop shelves bending under weight of wares, it was fast cars, big luxury houses that most of the people who fought thought they would have. Their mistake as to the character of capitalism appeared shortly after, and homeless, redundant, criminals came as a shock. Nobody who came from the US with a bag of dollars ever mentioned them. Nobody mentioned that people may die because they can't aford medicine; they can freeze to death because real estate agents get hold of empty houses and offer them for sale for the rich. Nobody thought they would burn alive because of home-made coal heating, because they can't afford gas for central heating.
Some people earned lots. Some lost all.
Not to mention most of state-funded institutions. Nowadays the best teenagers can do is to go and rob someone, watch TV, and drink beer. Build your own RC car? How? Tools! Parts! Knowledge! Cost! Completely beyond reach.
Most of Eastern Europe fell from inefficient communism into brutal capitalism because of all the money to be made (for the very few rich), when what they needed was the efficient socialism of, e.g., Sweden.
In Sweden, most people don't pay taxes, which are income based in two brackets -- the bottom bracket pays 0%, and the upper bracket, which begins at 10% above the mean wage earned amounts to a tax of 57% of the portion of income above that level. As you might imagine, Sweden's system compresses almost everyone into the middle class while still allowing for plenty of incentive. This has resulted in an economy that looks perfect from the perspective of a capitalist or communist nation, with ultra-low unemployment, inflation, national debt, poverty, and infant mortality, and ultra-high longevity, per-capita spending power, and literacy. They have a thriving economy at all sizes of business, from sole-proprietorships to multinationals (e.g., Ikea, Volvo, Ericsson.) Sweden frequently ranks as the #1 place in the world to live on aggregate quality-of-life rankings.
I don't understand why so many of the post-communist countries aren't following Sweden's lead.
Out of curiosity, do you have any data on the (un)employment rates for non-European immigrants in Scandinavian countries, and their proportion to the total population? (Just for the record, I'm NOT treating "Europeanness" as independently relevant here.)
Let's not forget that Sweden had the slight advantage of not being crushed to smithereens by both the Nazis and the Soviets, so it actually has the long-term economic and social stability which is required for a full welfare state.
In Sweden, most people don't pay taxes You made this up yourself? The only ones who don't pay taxes in Sweden are students (if you don't count the 25% VAT).
the bottom bracket pays 0%, and the upper bracket, which begins at 10% above the mean wage earned amounts to a tax of 57%
Totaly wrong. Just isnt so.
with ultra-low unemployment, Yeah, only like 7-8% or so.
inflation, OK, you had a lucky guess....
national debt, but just one:)
I don't hate the country I live in... but trust me, it ai
I'm swedish, and I like living here, but get your facts straight!
Living here is good, that is true, but it is not the utopia you make it out to be.
You are describing Sweden in the 70's, not in the 00's. (Being completely intact after WWII gave us a good head start...)
After a slight crisis in the 90's national debt is up, unemployment is up a bit, and we are over all more on par with other western european countries.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm told [cia.gov] that Sweden's unemployment is 4% and national debt is 30% of annual GDP, or about US$7500 per capita.
Well...
The open unemployment rate was around 5% [riksbank.se] in october 2003.
And, concerning the debt:
The CIA Worldbook uses old numbers (1994).
It only counts external debt, not internal.
The total Swedish national debt is 50% of GDP (end of 2002) and currently sinking slowly.
It may sound like a lot, but is actually less than the total would have been during the period the CIA Worldbook covers (we had a economic crisis in the early 90's. Since then, the administration has made a point of getting rid of the debt,
Answer: Miracles of democracy + American propaganda.
The problem is average IQ of 100 is damn low. People with this IQ and less have just enough votes to simply outvote the wise ones, and when their brains are being fed with pulp of "American Dream" and "Terror of Communism", seeing their boring, old, grey, average day [1], they just voted for the change, in hopes everyone could be some Easy Rider, Commando, Carrington, or whoever... So they voted capitalism. And what you suggested is represented nowadays by
Sweden is the most beautiful nation in the world, with the most beautiful women (they all look like Elin, Tiger's girl), and the friendliest people. We're the #1 nation in many respects.
When it comes to taxes, we're #1 too. According to the traditional definition of taxation (sum of taxes as a percentage of the gross national product), the sum of taxes in the year 2002 was the highest in Sweden with 50,6 percent. The EU average
Right, so I should have said: Just over half the Swedes don't pay national income tax, and in some regions, more than half don't pay any regional income tax either. I completely forgot about the VAT, which is a horribly regressive sales tax.
"Be there. Aloha."
-- Steve McGarret, _Hawaii Five-Oh_
When I remember Poland... (Score:1, Insightful)
It's just sad.
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:-1, Flamebait)
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:5, Interesting)
Except of really absolutely necessary laws, the only limitation was: Don't fight the system. At least, not from outside. Which means: You could join the party, climb the career ladder and once gaining significant power, help guiding the system towards something more 'accessible'. And that was often done. They stopped condemning rock music, instead they pursued engaging it on their side (see the Manaam band), they had to ballance giving as much freedom to people against bec
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of Eastern Europe fell from inefficient communism into brutal capitalism because of all the money to be made (for the very few rich), when what they needed was the efficient socialism of, e.g., Sweden.
In Sweden, most people don't pay taxes, which are income based in two brackets -- the bottom bracket pays 0%, and the upper bracket, which begins at 10% above the mean wage earned amounts to a tax of 57% of the portion of income above that level. As you might imagine, Sweden's system compresses almost everyone into the middle class while still allowing for plenty of incentive. This has resulted in an economy that looks perfect from the perspective of a capitalist or communist nation, with ultra-low unemployment, inflation, national debt, poverty, and infant mortality, and ultra-high longevity, per-capita spending power, and literacy. They have a thriving economy at all sizes of business, from sole-proprietorships to multinationals (e.g., Ikea, Volvo, Ericsson.) Sweden frequently ranks as the #1 place in the world to live on aggregate quality-of-life rankings.
I don't understand why so many of the post-communist countries aren't following Sweden's lead.
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:1)
Let's not forget that Sweden had the slight advantage of not being crushed to smithereens by both the Nazis and the Soviets, so it actually has the long-term economic and social stability which is required for a full welfare state.
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:2, Informative)
You made this up yourself? The only ones who don't pay taxes in Sweden are students (if you don't count the 25% VAT).
the bottom bracket pays 0%, and the upper bracket, which begins at 10% above the mean wage earned amounts to a tax of 57%
Totaly wrong. Just isnt so.
with ultra-low unemployment,
Yeah, only like 7-8% or so.
inflation,
OK, you had a lucky guess....
national debt,
but just one
I don't hate the country I live in... but trust me, it ai
Get your facts straight... (Score:4, Informative)
Living here is good, that is true, but it is not the utopia you make it out to be.
You are describing Sweden in the 70's, not in the 00's. (Being completely intact after WWII gave us a good head start...)
After a slight crisis in the 90's national debt is up, unemployment is up a bit, and we are over all more on par with other western european countries.
Re:Get your facts straight... (Score:2)
Re:Get your facts straight... (Score:2)
The open unemployment rate was around 5% [riksbank.se] in october 2003.
And, concerning the debt:
The total Swedish national debt is 50% of GDP (end of 2002) and currently sinking slowly.
It may sound like a lot, but is actually less than the total would have been during the period the CIA Worldbook covers (we had a economic crisis in the early 90's. Since then, the administration has made a point of getting rid of the debt,
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:2)
The problem is average IQ of 100 is damn low. People with this IQ and less have just enough votes to simply outvote the wise ones, and when their brains are being fed with pulp of "American Dream" and "Terror of Communism", seeing their boring, old, grey, average day [1], they just voted for the change, in hopes everyone could be some Easy Rider, Commando, Carrington, or whoever... So they voted capitalism.
And what you suggested is represented nowadays by
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:1)
Oh boy, you're so utterly wrong.
Sweden is the most beautiful nation in the world, with the most beautiful women (they all look like Elin, Tiger's girl), and the friendliest people. We're the #1 nation in many respects.
When it comes to taxes, we're #1 too. According to the traditional definition of taxation (sum of taxes as a percentage of the gross national product), the sum of taxes in the year 2002 was the highest in Sweden with 50,6 percent. The EU average
Re:When I remember Poland... (Score:2)