by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Tuesday November 05, 2002 @03:58PM (#4601293)
The same thing goes for Universities too. They used to have to tell you by law, now they can't. They also don't need a subpoena to monitor your computer use any more. I believe a court order will work which is easier to get than a subpoena. So add computer labs and dorms to list.
Fortunatly here in the UK AFAK this doesnt happen (yet) or is very hush hush still.. It strikes me as remarkably ironic that on the one hand there is all this anti-communist/anti-china propoganda and yet we're heading towards an orwellian future more than they are.
If you can't tell (by being big brother) how much money anyone is making, and therefore how much taxes they owe, there's hardly any chance that you'll be able to tell what anyone is thinking and whether or not it conforms to Big Brother's Standards of Conduct. Money is easier to track than brainwaves and purchasing patterns.
Effective taxation requires a lot of infrastructure. Efficient taxation, more so. Getting most people to think like communists, and everybody to act like communists, not so much. Also, keep in mind that if you're going for the communist implementation of totalitarianism, taxes are irrelevant since nobody's making any money anyway.
You seem to forget that the communists are no longer in direct control in Russia. And obviously they were not successful in sustaining big brother in any sense.
I suspect we are a lot more likely to see that approach succeed here. Comparisons to a regime that mostly died 13 years ago are irrelevant.
The CompSci department of my undergraduate degree course actually did a deal with the local bookstore. In return for giving the store exclusive access to the "recommended textbook" lists for each course (ie. buy these books or you don't get to take the course), the store would give the university access to the purchase lists of each book and/or the purchase lists for each student.
Also, staff were also given rights to view the student history lists of each book in the library.
The motivation behind all of this was to protect the university from lawsuits by students who had flunked their courses. If the university could prove that a student had access to all the relevant course materials then the student would have no chance of winning the case.
Opponents of this decision pointed out that if a student was researching material for their own interests, then their research could be disclosed by a member of staff.
After this, the demand for second-hand books paid for in cash sky-rocketed after this was announced. Would the department ban someone from taking the course if they hadn't purchased a single book from the store?
Its funny, isn't it, how much people think this is an either/or equation. 1984 and Brave New World were not critiques of communism -- they were critiques of increasing surveillance and other intrusions into daily lives. Its not like the Communist countries were the only ones who moved towards increasing surveillance of their citizens -- its just the speed at which they did it and the overtness of the intrusiveness was more obvious. But we're all headed in the same direction. It was obvious in 1948 when Orwell wrote his book. It is all the more obvious today.
No....it still happens....its just the same people (the US)
And when necessary, they drop the dime to your local authorities, ala Echelon.
Isn't it ironic, that the Internet that we cheered (and sometimes still cheer) for setting us all free by being bigger and more widespread than any single government, now has the potential to actually enslave us by making every government bigger and more widespread?
--paranoid bastard.
Actually, whats even scarier than the computer monitoring is the SEVIS requirements in the patriot act which require universities to be able to communicate with federal computers so the feds can track foreign students to be sure their visa's are valid. Presently they just require schools to enter the necessary information by hand, but the full plan calls for the feds to be able to interact with and get whatever student information they believe they are entitled to from the universities' computer systems.
Actually, whats even scarier than the computer monitoring is the SEVIS requirements in the patriot act which require universities to be able to communicate with federal computers so the feds can track foreign students to be sure their visa's are valid.
This appears highly over complex. The only thing which would make sense is for US universities to require either proof of US citizenship or to see a visa and INS stamp when students register.
Presently they just require schools to enter the necessary information by hand, but the full plan calls for the feds to be able to interact with and get whatever student information they believe they are entitled to from the universities' computer systems.
Should they be storing visa details in the first place, isn't that the job of the INS and/or state department? If the US has borders so insecure that people can enroll in university without going through a border checkpoint then it might be better to worry about who might be entering the US illegally and doing things less obvious than attending school.
"The C Programming Language -- A language which combines the flexibility of
assembly language with the power of assembly language."
Universities Too (Score:5, Informative)
Thanks Patriot Act.
Re:Universities Too (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Universities Too (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because they're already there.
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
It's the control over the ideologies and expectations of the masses that makes it Orwellian, not the efficacy and efficiency of the revenue service.
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
If you can't tell (by being big brother) how much money anyone is making, and therefore how much taxes they owe, there's hardly any chance that you'll be able to tell what anyone is thinking and whether or not it conforms to Big Brother's Standards of Conduct. Money is easier to track than brainwaves and purchasing patterns.
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
I suspect we are a lot more likely to see that approach succeed here. Comparisons to a regime that mostly died 13 years ago are irrelevant.
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
Re:Universities Too (Score:1)
Re:Universities Too (Score:1)
The CompSci department of my undergraduate degree course actually did a deal with the local bookstore. In return for giving the store exclusive access to the "recommended textbook" lists for each course (ie. buy these books or you don't get to take the course), the store would give the university access to the purchase lists of each book and/or the purchase lists for each student.
Also, staff were also given rights to view the student history lists of each book in the library.
The motivation behind all of this was to protect the university from lawsuits by students who had flunked their courses. If the university could prove that a student had access to all the relevant course materials then the student would have no chance of winning the case.
Opponents of this decision pointed out that if a student was researching material for their own interests, then their research could be disclosed by a member of staff.
After this, the demand for second-hand books paid for in cash sky-rocketed after this was announced. Would the department ban someone from taking the course if they hadn't purchased a single book from the store?
Brave New World Order (Score:1)
No safety in the UK (or anywhere) (Score:1)
At least they won't (Score:3, Funny)
"My subpoenas bigger than yours! nyah!"
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
Re:Universities Too (Score:2)
This appears highly over complex. The only thing which would make sense is for US universities to require either proof of US citizenship or to see a visa and INS stamp when students register.
Presently they just require schools to enter the necessary information by hand, but the full plan calls for the feds to be able to interact with and get whatever student information they believe they are entitled to from the universities' computer systems.
Should they be storing visa details in the first place, isn't that the job of the INS and/or state department? If the US has borders so insecure that people can enroll in university without going through a border checkpoint then it might be better to worry about who might be entering the US illegally and doing things less obvious than attending school.