What country are YOU living in? Here in America (by which I mean the USA and Canada), punishment rarely fits the crime. If you steal a billion dollars from investors, you'll be asked to retire and pay a fine. Steal a hundred dollars from a liquour store, and you'll get twenty years in jail.
Pirating films isn't white-collar enough to warrant a light sentence. The only crimes that have stiff sentences are the ones that wealthy people don't commit.
Here in America (by which I mean the USA and Canada), punishment rarely fits the crime. If you steal a billion dollars from investors, you'll be asked to retire and pay a fine. Steal a hundred dollars from a liquour store, and you'll get twenty years in jail.
Ah yes, but most people who steal from liquor stores have commited many other crimes, and are likely to commit a lot more, whereas white collar criminals tend to only commit one crime.
Well actually it's they tend to only get caught in one (or one related set of) crime(s) then wise up and become a professional crook by running for office.
Fighting? what fight... oh you mean the dog and pony show they distract us with.
Trust me, the minute it even begins to look like a three party system they close ranks so fast it'll make your head spin.
Just look at the 'presidential debates' in 1992.
They let in one guy to rich to ignore, while refusing to let in a candidate that repeatedly met thier ever moving 'requirements' to join untill they simply refused point blank to even say what the new 'requirements' were.
Some crimes are more effective than others. White collar crimes are generally much more profitable, so you don't need to be a repeat offender if you get it right the first time. Sigh.
Exactly. So punishing white collar criminals isn't going to be a lot of good is it, except as a deterrent. And quite frankly, I'd say a couple of years in jail is enough of a risk to deter most people who may otherwise consider committing such a crime.
Most white collar criminals wouldn't mind doing a couple of years at $500 million each. For a small fraction of that, you can buy a very nice cornhole insurance from the jail boss.
If you get caught, you lose the money, and probably get shunned by everyone you ever knew. You'd be doing a couple of years at $0 each. And the Hollywood view of prison isn't that much like real life.
You don't necessarily loose all the money if you took precautions
to ship it abroad or spread it through innumerable channels.
And if you were able to save enough money from the prosecuting
agencies, you'll still have enough "friends" who would be more
than happy to be in your vicinity.
Ah yes, but most people who steal from liquor stores have committed many other crimes, and are likely to commit a lot more, whereas white collar criminals tend to only commit one crime.
Huh, that's funny. I'd have sworn Dennis Koslowski [nydailynews.com] is accused not only of looting his own company, but tax evasion in the millions as well -- and various conspiracies to cover up his alleged crimes.
Not to mention the allegations against Ken Lay and the other alleged Enron conspirators : not only are they alleged to have conned their own investors, they are also alleged to have manufactured fake power shortages in order to over-charge California, according to seized tapes: [cbsnews.com]
"They're fucking taking all the money back from you guys?" complains an Enron employee on the tapes. "All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?"
"Yeah, grandma Millie, man"
"Yeah, now she wants her fucking money back for all the power you've charged right up, jammed right up her asshole for fucking $250 a megawatt hour."
And the tapes appear to link top Enron officials Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling to schemes that fueled the crisis.
"Government Affairs has to prove how valuable it is to Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling," says one trader.
But even if you were correct in claiming that "white collar criminals tend to only commit one crime", if that single crime nets the criminal millions of dollars, well, those ill-gotten gains will last a lifetime longer than the take from knocking over a liqueur store.
I'm sure that if by robbing a liqueur store you could make millions, the hold up men would be happy to retire afterward -- or be driven out of thievery by competition from greedy MBAs.
But tell me one thing: why are you so willing to be sympathetic to those who steal the investments of pensioners and pension plans in order to live it up yachting on the Riviera, and so unsympathetic to the poor junkie from the projects who just wants to steal enough to get by for one more miserable day?
Why do we allow the wealthy to bend us over and rob us, and then fawn all over them at their parole parties? Why do we beleive that a CEO really "earns" a salary plus benefits in the tens of millions of dollars, while the average worker gets his jib outsourced?
Is it because we respect wealth -- earned or stolen -- so much, or just because we respect ourselves so little?
Is this still the country that Jefferson and the Adamses risked their "lives, fortunes, and scared honors" for, or some European-style feudalism with the thieving rich taking the place of an idle aristocracy?
Is this still the country that Jefferson and the Adamses risked their "lives, fortunes, and scared honors" for, or some European-style feudalism with the thieving rich taking the place of an idle aristocracy?
Seriously, how do you think the European aristocracy came into being? It was rich and wealthy merchants using their money and power to buy themselves rights and more power. America is not a classless society, it just defines its classes differently. Your powerful families are growing just as they did in Europe hundreds of years ago - basically same system, different part of the curve.
Seriously, how do you think the European aristocracy came into being? It was rich and wealthy merchants using their money and power to buy themselves rights and more power.
Hmm. I'm not an expert on European history, but that isn't how the English aristocracy came into being -- it was from conquerors running around. I would venture to guess that most European aristocracy actually came up from conquest.
Seriously, how do you think the European aristocracy came into being? It was rich and wealthy merchants using their money and power to buy themselves rights and more power.
This isn't entirely correct. A nobility title came with land (a feud), not with wealth. You could be piss poor and still be an aristocrate, and then again, in the Middle Ages, you could be the richest merchant in the world and still not hold any title. This was, at least in part, because of religion: trading was considered to be usury (for obvioud reasons -- noone would sell goods for the price they bought them), and usury was considered to be a mortal sin.
Yes, i know about the Hanseatic League. In fact, i live in one of the former Hanse cities. But i don't see what difference it should make, as even the Hanseatic merchants, as rich and powerful as they may have been, were still outside the nobility hierarchies.
Point of fact: Trading was never considered usury. Usury is (in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition) charging interest on loans, at least to your co-religionists.
The fact that the aristocrats considered it beneath them to engage in manufacturing or trade is one of the factors that led to their eventual demise as the ruling class in Europe.
Well, trading wasn't exactly usury, but it was still considered to be something just as bad, as it meant taking more than you needed to survive and this was also a sin. Furthermore, trading was usually coupled with "usury," as you still needed to acquire some capital to start trading.
You, my friend, need to sit down and catch up on your Neal Stephenson reading. In particular, you need to cozy up with one or both of the books in the Baroque Cycle (Quicksilver or The Confusion), and educate yourself about what the European aristocracy actually consisted of, and how they interacted with the wealthy merchants. You could of course just go and pick up a few history books, but Stephenson has been nice enough to condense a lot of information into a couple of volumes, and to wrap it in an engro
Here follows the transcript from a "Daily Show Exclusive" tape of a phone call between Trader One and Grandma Millie herself. ----- GRANDMA MILLIE: "Hello?"
TRADER ONE: "Hi. Is this Grandma Millie?"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "Yes, dear?"
TRADER ONE: "I'm taking your energy, bitch!"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "What?"
TRADER ONE: "HA! HA!"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "But I need energy to bake pies for the little orphans..."
Actually, if you research the American Revolution and the civil unrest among the poor during it's time, you will realize that laws in this country have always favored the rich. Shortly after the Declaration of Independence, laws were passed to restrict all but the wealthiest ten percent of the population from holding office (restricted by stipulations of vast land ownership). Also, the rich could buy their way out of military service, while the poor could not. This, in addition to the fact that the poor saw
Why do we allow the wealthy to bend us over and rob us, and then fawn all over them at their parole parties? Why do we beleive that a CEO really "earns" a salary plus benefits in the tens of millions of dollars, while the average worker gets his jib outsourced?
These questions are not related. Not that it should be considered good, but corporate theft is slower and less obviously painful than a knifing. Celebrating crooks at their parole is something that people of bad character have done for centuries.
most people who steal from liquor stores have commited many other crimes, and are likely to commit a lot more
I thought you could only be punished for crimes you have been charged for and found guilty of having commit. Not for crimes you may have done or are likely to do.
I thought you could only be punished for crimes you have been charged for and found guilty of having commit. Not for crimes you may have done or are likely to do.
That's just silly. There are plenty of US laws based on futurecrime. Just look at, say, drug law. You are charged with a crime because you may commit a crime under the influence in the future.
Police regularly create sting operations targeting drug users, johns, and pedophiles. There are no actual victims in these cases, unless you count undercover officers posing as decoys. Hence we are already punishing people for imaginary crimes. The only reason police don't use such tactics against other classes criminals (say, murderers) is that it's just not feasible. (Not that I see how any of this relates to video piracy.)
There are plenty of US laws based on futurecrime. Just look at, say, drug law. You are charged with a crime because you may commit a crime under the influence in the future.
What does that have to do with drug laws?
Drug laws are there because those drugs can't be patented and big pharma can make a tidy profit off of pimping their drugs.
I have never heard a single rational argument in favor of drug laws. Take any argument I've ever heard given and it is an argument that only applies when drugs are illegal
Preemptive punishment? See recent US activities in... shit... what's that large country in the Middle East... it's on the tip of my brain... Iraq???;-)
I thought you could only be punished for crimes you have been charged for and found guilty of having commit. Not for crimes you may have done or are likely to do.
Wow. You probably believe the "record will be expunged" thing for minors too eh? Perhaps once upon a time in America; but that time is, unfortunately, long, long gone.
So Joe Shmoe robs 6 liquer stores, makes off with $6000, and gets a several years in prison.
Because the alternative is that he goes around robbing more liquer stores, making every liquer store owner in the area fear for their lives, and runs the risk of him actually killing one of them.
Jeff Skilling bankrupts a large company while netting several million dollars for himself, and several thousand people have lost their life savings.
My god! We'll have to get that guy off the street! He may go aroun
We're a bit behind the times down here. I can't think of any recent examples of a local company using it's financial power to put draconian laws into affect. Give us another six months or so to catch up on that one.
Hopefully we'll tear up and burn that Fraud Trade Agreement Bush "offered" us, and we won't have to worry about it any time soon either.
We're a bit behind the times down here. I can't think of any recent examples of a local company using it's financial power to put draconian laws into affect. Give us another six months or so to catch up on that one.
"What could make a print job spool at unusually slow rates to the printer?"
In my experience, glacially slow printing times can usually be traced back to a third-rate operating system. As you've no doubt discovered since installing Linux, printer hassles [catb.org] are among the countless inconveniences you must suffer if you insist on using an operating system with no polish, no professionalism and no sense of responsibility to the end user. I would suggest buying a Mac, or, at the very least, switching back to Wind
It certainly varies from case to case and usually seems to favor the rich, but we recently had a case here where a man who raped a 12-year old girl got TWO MONTHS in jail. No, he wasn't rich; the judge was just an idiot. It's a shame he didn't rape the girl in a theater while holding a camcorder. Go figure.
I've seen a couple of cases where murderers got off with a light sentences because of plea bargaining. But don't dare take a camcorder into a theater!!
The judge was enlightened. Women are lower life forms. We shouldn't allow them to roam the streets freely. They deserve to be raped. In a perfect world, cow farms are replaced with female farms. We were never meant to drink disgusting cow milk when we can have the real thing. I say we start farming women for breastmilk and stop exploiting these helpless cows. Of course in order to farm breastmilk from women, we've got to get them lactating. And you know what that means.
Somebody modded you as funny, but my guess is that neither one of you has actually tasted human breast milk since growing up. It tastes AWFUL! Don't ask me how I know...
What country are YOU living in? Here in America (by which I mean the USA and Canada), punishment rarely fits the crime. If you steal a billion dollars from investors, you'll be asked to retire and pay a fine. Steal a hundred dollars from a liquour store, and you'll get twenty years in jail.
Pirating films isn't white-collar enough to warrant a light sentence. The only crimes that have stiff sentences are the ones that wealthy people don't commit.
What hole are you living in? Last I checked if you get c
Name two people who are actually doing REAL prison time for defrauding investors.
Why? Typically people who ask for things like that will simply dismiss any names given as not being REAL enough.
Here's a list of names - you can decide for yourself if the penalties they faced or face are REAL enough to suit you: Andrew Fastow, Michael Milken, Ivan Boesky, Dennis Levine, Martin Seigel, Ben Glisan, Michael Kopper. And many, many more.
Here's a list of names - you can decide for yourself if the penalties they faced or face are REAL enough to suit you:
There is a huge difference between Club Fed and a real prison. Plus the people you refer to kept a shitload of the money they stole making it well worth their while. So, no, that is nowhere near real enough when people who sell flowers from certain plants do hard time in real prisons.
There is a huge difference between Club Fed and a real prison.
LOL. Man, can I call it or what? So you're "dismissing it as not being REAL enough", then?
Plus the people you refer to kept a shitload of the money they stole making it well worth their while.
I don't even know you at all, and yet I'll confidently predict that you just pulled that little factoid straight out of your dark and smelly place. Why don't you post some numbers to back that contention up, if you can.
There is a huge difference between Club Fed and a real prison.
Well, he sort of has a point. Maybe you should have been more specific and said Name two people who are actually doing time in "rape me in the ass prison" for defrauding investors.
Or perhaps a better question would be why are some of our prisons so awful, and isn't it counter-productive that they turn petty criminals into violent criminals? To say nothing about why do we joke about prison rape.
Well, I guess I'm one of those who dismisses the names because they're not real. At least, they don't meet the grandparent comment's objectives of "people who are actually doing REAL prison time". Andrew Fastow's prison time was delayed as part of his plea bargain. He didn't want to be in jail at the same time as his wife, because then his children would've had to go into foster care or live with a relative or something. So he's not doing time NOW. Yes, he will be
Name two people who are actually doing REAL prison time for defrauding investors. Go on -- name 'em.
Easy...
Ben Glisan played a key role in designing Enron's web of infamous off-balance-sheet partnerships. On Septeber 12, 2003 he was sentenced to five years in federal prison. He was not assisting prosecuters in their investigation.
Frank Bergonzi, formerly Rite Aid's cfo, was sentenced to 28 months in prison on May 27 of this year. He pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit accounting fr
I'll bet a Slashdot gift subscription that none of these people are in anything more harsh than what is commonly described as a "Club Fed" for "non-violent" (i.e. rich) offenders. If one of them's doing time in a prison where being forced to make sweet lovin' to a cellmate named Hammer is a possibility, post proof in the form of a link to the mainstream press, and I'll give you a Slashdot gift subscription. Seriously.
I'll bet a Slashdot gift subscription that none of these people are in anything more harsh than what is commonly described as a "Club Fed" for "non-violent" (i.e. rich) offenders. If one of them's doing time in a prison where being forced to make sweet lovin' to a cellmate named Hammer is a possibility, post proof in the form of a link to the mainstream press, and I'll give you a Slashdot gift subscription. Seriously.
You people never give up. I was asked for names of people those who have been sent to pr
The original poster said "REAL" prison time. A few years in a federal country club for the rich is not that, so you didn't really give what was asked for, proving the point that the rich don't receive sufficient punishment to deter the large scale theft in which they participate. As far as wishing rape on someone, I wouldn't either, but it's hardly fair that those who steal the pensions of the elderly are insulated from it while someone who posesses a few grams of marijuana or gets caught with a camcorder i
The original poster said "REAL" prison time. A few years in a federal country club for the rich is not that, so you didn't really give what was asked for, proving the point that the rich don't receive sufficient punishment to deter the large scale theft in which they participate. As far as wishing rape on someone, I wouldn't either, but it's hardly fair that those who steal the pensions of the elderly are insulated from it while someone who posesses a few grams of marijuana or gets caught with a camcorder
Oops--posted this reply to myself, rather than to you:
Although I would have preferred to see a cite showing an Enron executive was in danger of being shanked in Oz, you at least answered the question instead of posting a "you people" flame like the other guy did. Enjoy your subscription!
While I'd like to think that Ken Lay will get his day in a pod with Adebisi, I guess we'll have to settle for knowing that violence and rapes DO happen even in minimum security federal prisons.
Although I would have preferred to see a cite showing an Enron executive was in danger of being shanked in Oz, you at least answered the question instead of posting a "you people" flame like the other guy did. Enjoy your subscription!
So Mr. Glisan, which helped defraud investors and pensioners of billions of dollars gets the same prison sentence as someone who sells a taped movie on the street? How the hell is that fair?
Its not fair... someone who sells only one illegal copy of a movie shouldn't get anywhere close to 5 years in prison, and someone like Glisan should get more like 10 to 20 years or so if you ask me.
Move to the Free State [freestateproject.org]. about 200,000 libertarian Slashdotters should be able to make a big impact there.
Their goal is to create a Free State out of New Hampshire, that will combine the personal freedom of Holland with the economic freedom of Hong Kong. They are already attempting to change gun laws to allow concealed weapon carrying without a license. Raw milk sales are not regulated. Congresspeople are part-timers and get paid $100 a year. The state government is small and the crime rate is low. If the F
I thought Federal laws (like this one) would overrule State laws. That makes it rather difficult to found a state like that within the borders of the US.
Have you ever been to Hong Kong? My visit was from before the handover, but it seemed that their economic success was based on:
Good Education
A very high population density
Low wages
Not a model I'd want to follow. That was a subjective view - maybe someone else knows more about the place.
Have you ever been to Hong Kong? My visit was from before the handover, but it seemed that their economic success was based on:
Good Education
A very high population density
Low wages
I live in Hong Kong.
Education: most people finish high school, which is better than China, but behind Singapore.
Pop density: The land shortage means extremely high real estate prices, good for the billionaire developers but bad for everyone who has to pay rent or live in a tiny flat. On the other hand, public transpo
That sounds great. Maybe once I'm done my degree I'll look into CS jobs in New Hampshire. Sounds like my kind of place. I'm not too into guns, but I guess you have to take the second amendment along with the first. Them amendments is just about the most promising thing about that country you have there.
Move to the Free State.... Their goal is to create a Free State out of New Hampshire,...
That does look very interesting, and the people do seem to be sincere about everything. Before reading their information, I just assumed that New Hampshire was just as bad as any other New England state. It was surprising to see that they appear to be a tiny oasis in the middle of a liberal swampland.
For me, the main concern with their choice of New Hampshire is not with how things are today, but some years down t
Funny you say that, since some cousins of mine just came up to visit from Dallas. Fortunatly their son hasn't taken to saying "what kinda coke y'all want", and wants to play hockey in North Dakota.
Disclaimer: I think that the passing of this law is a pretty scary prospect, but...
Providing a copy of a first run film to a release group for mass distribution over the web? not exactly talking about small losses there... (yes i know about the film industry's "creative accounting" how they suck the souls out of fluffy white kittens for pleasure etc etc...)
...then again, hardly justification for a 3 year jail term either
Providing a copy of a first run film to a release group for mass distribution over the web? not exactly talking about small losses there...
Yes you are. Have you ever seen one of these camcorder videos? Sometimes the image is almost acceptable, if oyu watch it on a 14" monitor. But the sound is alwys terrible, with a nice background of coughing and crinkling cellophane. Basically anyone who'd be satisfied with that is not at all likely to have bought a ticket, or even the legal DVD. In fact the only way
The discussion took a slight turn when we started talking about wide distribution. Camcorder rips are roundly reviled as the substandard pieces of crap they are. By making them the subject of criminal law, we will hopefully achieve a higher grade of bootleg movies.
>Yes you are. Have you ever seen one of these camcorder videos?
No, we aren't talking about camcorder rips. The typical source for first run films is screener copies and people inside the studio.
May I remind you that the topic is "Senate Unanimously Passes Anti-Camcorder Bill". And that will have no effect on screener copies, unless it's attached to that bill (it well may be, I haven't the stomach to wade through the legalese).
May I remind you that the topic is "Senate Unanimously Passes Anti-Camcorder Bill". And that will have no effect on screener copies, unless it's attached to that bill (it well may be, I haven't the stomach to wade through the legalese).
So, basically, the only effect will be that somebody will be charged with a felony for possessing a camcorder in his backpack while on vacation. The impact on piracy will be nil.
Here in America (by which I mean the USA and Canada)
Nice jibe. I'm Canadian and I'd have to say that if you can't force us to join you in Iraq, you don't own us. Vietnam, Cuba... etc. We're our own country, and thinking otherwise is stupid.
This law isn't about punishing American malefactors. I would bet the problem of pirating films with vidcams isn't even serious in the USA. This law was passed so that we can show our international trading partners (East Asia, among others) that we're serious about intellectual property and hence so should they be. The USA has to create and impose some way of protecting intellectual property, because nowadays, it's among our major exports.
The fact that it's easy enough for anyone with a CD-R to "produce" th
The trouble with producing information is that its like the emperor's new clothes. It forces everyone to pretend that movies, software, and music are property.
They're clearly not. But if we don't pretend that, we don't produce anything else of value these days.
We're in for a heap of trouble when the rest of the world wakes up.
"Be there. Aloha."
-- Steve McGarret, _Hawaii Five-Oh_
You'd get less time... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not standing up for the crime, but isn't the punishment supposed to match it?
Sickening...
What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Insightful)
Pirating films isn't white-collar enough to warrant a light sentence. The only crimes that have stiff sentences are the ones that wealthy people don't commit.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0, Troll)
Ah yes, but most people who steal from liquor stores have commited many other crimes, and are likely to commit a lot more, whereas white collar criminals tend to only commit one crime.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Funny)
Mycroft
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
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Trust me, the minute it even begins to look like a three party system they close ranks so fast it'll make your head spin.
Just look at the 'presidential debates' in 1992.
They let in one guy to rich to ignore, while refusing to let in a candidate that repeatedly met thier ever moving 'requirements' to join untill they simply refused point blank to even say what the new 'requirements' were.
Mycroft
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
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Some crimes are more effective than others. White collar crimes are generally much more profitable, so you don't need to be a repeat offender if you get it right the first time. Sigh.
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Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
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You don't necessarily loose all the money if you took precautions to ship it abroad or spread it through innumerable channels.
And if you were able to save enough money from the prosecuting agencies, you'll still have enough "friends" who would be more than happy to be in your vicinity.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh, that's funny. I'd have sworn Dennis Koslowski [nydailynews.com] is accused not only of looting his own company, but tax evasion in the millions as well -- and various conspiracies to cover up his alleged crimes.
Not to mention the allegations against Ken Lay and the other alleged Enron conspirators : not only are they alleged to have conned their own investors, they are also alleged to have manufactured fake power shortages in order to over-charge California, according to seized tapes: [cbsnews.com]
But even if you were correct in claiming that "white collar criminals tend to only commit one crime", if that single crime nets the criminal millions of dollars, well, those ill-gotten gains will last a lifetime longer than the take from knocking over a liqueur store.
I'm sure that if by robbing a liqueur store you could make millions, the hold up men would be happy to retire afterward -- or be driven out of thievery by competition from greedy MBAs.
But tell me one thing: why are you so willing to be sympathetic to those who steal the investments of pensioners and pension plans in order to live it up yachting on the Riviera, and so unsympathetic to the poor junkie from the projects who just wants to steal enough to get by for one more miserable day?
Why do we allow the wealthy to bend us over and rob us, and then fawn all over them at their parole parties? Why do we beleive that a CEO really "earns" a salary plus benefits in the tens of millions of dollars, while the average worker gets his jib outsourced?
Is it because we respect wealth -- earned or stolen -- so much, or just because we respect ourselves so little?
Is this still the country that Jefferson and the Adamses risked their "lives, fortunes, and scared honors" for, or some European-style feudalism with the thieving rich taking the place of an idle aristocracy?
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:-1, Redundant)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this still the country that Jefferson and the Adamses risked their "lives, fortunes, and scared honors" for, or some European-style feudalism with the thieving rich taking the place of an idle aristocracy?
Seriously, how do you think the European aristocracy came into being? It was rich and wealthy merchants using their money and power to buy themselves rights and more power. America is not a classless society, it just defines its classes differently. Your powerful families are growing just as they did in Europe hundreds of years ago - basically same system, different part of the curve.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Hmm. I'm not an expert on European history, but that isn't how the English aristocracy came into being -- it was from conquerors running around. I would venture to guess that most European aristocracy actually came up from conquest.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
If it wasn't for the fact that genocide and ethnic cleansing wasn't a war crime a century ago, we'd have had a lot of ancient aristocrats in jail.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Germany was different because for centuries, there was no central state authority - just a collection of semi-independent statelets.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't entirely correct. A nobility title came with land (a feud), not with wealth. You could be piss poor and still be an aristocrate, and then again, in the Middle Ages, you could be the richest merchant in the world and still not hold any title. This was, at least in part, because of religion: trading was considered to be usury (for obvioud reasons -- noone would sell goods for the price they bought them), and usury was considered to be a mortal sin.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
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The fact that the aristocrats considered it beneath them to engage in manufacturing or trade is one of the factors that led to their eventual demise as the ruling class in Europe.
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-----
GRANDMA MILLIE: "Hello?"
TRADER ONE: "Hi. Is this Grandma Millie?"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "Yes, dear?"
TRADER ONE: "I'm taking your energy, bitch!"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "What?"
TRADER ONE: "HA! HA!"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "But I need energy to bake pies for the little orphans..."
TRADER ONE: "Well, your orphans can eat my ass!"
GRANDMA MILLIE: "Oh dear lord..."
TRADER ONE: "God can't help you now,
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Hey, there's big money in anisette.
rj
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These questions are not related. Not that it should be considered good, but corporate theft is slower and less obviously painful than a knifing. Celebrating crooks at their parole is something that people of bad character have done for centuries.
So
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought you could only be punished for crimes you have been charged for and found guilty of having commit. Not for crimes you may have done or are likely to do.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
The reason we put them away for so long is that they are a danger to others. They have offended, and will do so again.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
That's just silly. There are plenty of US laws based on futurecrime. Just look at, say, drug law. You are charged with a crime because you may commit a crime under the influence in the future.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
What does that have to do with drug laws?
Drug laws are there because those drugs can't be patented and big pharma can make a tidy profit off of pimping their drugs.
I have never heard a single rational argument in favor of drug laws. Take any argument I've ever heard given and it is an argument that only applies when drugs are illegal
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:3, Insightful)
See recent US activities in
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Wow. You probably believe the "record will be expunged" thing for minors too eh? Perhaps once upon a time in America; but that time is, unfortunately, long, long gone.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Threaten people with violence -> jailtime.
Screw investors -> well, that's just money. not a big deal.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Jeff Skilling bankrupts a large company while netting several million dollars for himself, and several thousand people have lost their life savings.
Yeah, I'm sure the guy that affected six store owners for a few bucks is more of a criminal than Skilling.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Because the alternative is that he goes around robbing more liquer stores, making every liquer store owner in the area fear for their lives, and runs the risk of him actually killing one of them.
Jeff Skilling bankrupts a large company while netting several million dollars for himself, and several thousand people have lost their life savings.
My god! We'll have to get that guy off the street! He may go aroun
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:5, Insightful)
We're a bit behind the times down here. I can't think of any recent examples of a local company using it's financial power to put draconian laws into affect. Give us another six months or so to catch up on that one.
Hopefully we'll tear up and burn that Fraud Trade Agreement Bush "offered" us, and we won't have to worry about it any time soon either.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Too busy outlawing swords right now?
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Answer: Mediocre Operating System (Score:-1, Troll)
In my experience, glacially slow printing times can usually be traced back to a third-rate operating system. As you've no doubt discovered since installing Linux, printer hassles [catb.org] are among the countless inconveniences you must suffer if you insist on using an operating system with no polish, no professionalism and no sense of responsibility to the end user. I would suggest buying a Mac, or, at the very least, switching back to Wind
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
I've seen a couple of cases where murderers got off with a light sentences because of plea bargaining. But don't dare take a camcorder into a theater!!
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0, Funny)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
crimes that have stiff sentences... (Score:-1, Troll)
crimes which are the "flavor of the month" will receive longer sentences.
And let's not forget that piece of shit Reagan, who was the prime mover behind the Federal Sentencing Guidelines.
I'm a US citizen, but I am looking hard at other countries to move to, because things are just going to get a lot worse here.
Yeah, it's sad, but I'd rather be a realist than a fool.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Pirating films isn't white-collar enough to warrant a light sentence. The only crimes that have stiff sentences are the ones that wealthy people don't commit.
What hole are you living in? Last I checked if you get c
Name one person. (Score:2)
Re:Name one person. (Score:5, Informative)
Why? Typically people who ask for things like that will simply dismiss any names given as not being REAL enough.
Here's a list of names - you can decide for yourself if the penalties they faced or face are REAL enough to suit you: Andrew Fastow, Michael Milken, Ivan Boesky, Dennis Levine, Martin Seigel, Ben Glisan, Michael Kopper. And many, many more.
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
There is a huge difference between Club Fed and a real prison.
Plus the people you refer to kept a shitload of the money they stole making it well worth their while. So, no, that is nowhere near real enough when people who sell flowers from certain plants do hard time in real prisons.
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
LOL. Man, can I call it or what? So you're "dismissing it as not being REAL enough", then?
Plus the people you refer to kept a shitload of the money they stole making it well worth their while.
I don't even know you at all, and yet I'll confidently predict that you just pulled that little factoid straight out of your dark and smelly place. Why don't you post some numbers to back that contention up, if you can.
The Liberal Media [airameric
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
Well, he sort of has a point. Maybe you should have been more specific and said Name two people who are actually doing time in "rape me in the ass prison" for defrauding investors.
Or perhaps a better question would be why are some of our prisons so awful, and isn't it counter-productive that they turn petty criminals into violent criminals? To say nothing about why do we joke about prison rape.
Federal Prisons are a lot "nicer" than the a
0 for 3 for the ones I looked up (Score:1, Interesting)
Well, I guess I'm one of those who dismisses the names because they're not real. At least, they don't meet the grandparent comment's objectives of "people who are actually doing REAL prison time". Andrew Fastow's prison time was delayed as part of his plea bargain. He didn't want to be in jail at the same time as his wife, because then his children would've had to go into foster care or live with a relative or something. So he's not doing time NOW. Yes, he will be
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Lea Fastow - 1 year (And that's just doing the cover up stuff).
And that's just two from Enron. The other people in from there have either killed themselves, or have trials pending.
If you want more, just google 'em.
Re:Name one person. (Score:2, Interesting)
Easy...
Ben Glisan played a key role in designing Enron's web of infamous off-balance-sheet partnerships. On Septeber 12, 2003 he was sentenced to five years in federal prison. He was not assisting prosecuters in their investigation.
Frank Bergonzi, formerly Rite Aid's cfo, was sentenced to 28 months in prison on May 27 of this year. He pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit accounting fr
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
You people never give up. I was asked for names of people those who have been sent to pr
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
Re:Name one person. (Score:3, Insightful)
While I won't usually cite USA Today as a source, the myth of the "Club Fed" prisons is just that: a myth.
They're certainly not as dank or dangerous as a maximum security state prison, but they're not country clubs, either.
USA Today article, RE: Martha Stewart and what she faces in prison [usatoday.com]
Similar article from Globe and Mail [theglobeandmail.com]
Article from Australia's The Age regarding white collar criminals in the US [theage.com.au]
-l
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Although I would have preferred to see a cite showing an Enron executive was in danger of being shanked in Oz, you at least answered the question instead of posting a "you people" flame like the other guy did. Enjoy your subscription!
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
While I'd like to think that Ken Lay will get his day in a pod with Adebisi, I guess we'll have to settle for knowing that violence and rapes DO happen even in minimum security federal prisons.
Thanks for the subscription!
-l
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Re:Name one person. (Score:2)
Re:Name one person. (Score:1)
The only way to change things. (Score:3, Interesting)
Move to the Free State [freestateproject.org]. about 200,000 libertarian Slashdotters should be able to make a big impact there.
Their goal is to create a Free State out of New Hampshire, that will combine the personal freedom of Holland with the economic freedom of Hong Kong. They are already attempting to change gun laws to allow concealed weapon carrying without a license. Raw milk sales are not regulated. Congresspeople are part-timers and get paid $100 a year. The state government is small and the crime rate is low. If the F
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:2)
Have you ever been to Hong Kong? My visit was from before the handover, but it seemed that their economic success was based on:
- Good Education
- A very high population density
- Low wages
Not a model I'd want to follow. That was a subjective view - maybe someone else knows more about the place.Re:The only way to change things. (Score:2)
Good Education
A very high population density
Low wages
I live in Hong Kong.
Education: most people finish high school, which is better than China, but behind Singapore.
Pop density: The land shortage means extremely high real estate prices, good for the billionaire developers but bad for everyone who has to pay rent or live in a tiny flat. On the other hand, public transpo
That's Great (Score:2)
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:3, Interesting)
That does look very interesting, and the people do seem to be sincere about everything. Before reading their information, I just assumed that New Hampshire was just as bad as any other New England state. It was surprising to see that they appear to be a tiny oasis in the middle of a liberal swampland.
For me, the main concern with their choice of New Hampshire is not with how things are today, but some years down t
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:1)
As if being liberal was a bad thing.
he state is overrun with refugees from Massachusetts that bring their city disease with them ("Massholes")
Uh huh. Why don't you just move to Austin, TX where you'll find lots of other neocon butt pirates.
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:2)
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:1)
Funny you say that, since some cousins of mine just came up to visit from Dallas. Fortunatly their son hasn't taken to saying "what kinda coke y'all want", and wants to play hockey in North Dakota.
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:2)
Re:The only way to change things. (Score:1)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Providing a copy of a first run film to a release group for mass distribution over the web? not exactly talking about small losses there... (yes i know about the film industry's "creative accounting" how they suck the souls out of fluffy white kittens for pleasure etc etc...)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Yes you are. Have you ever seen one of these camcorder videos? Sometimes the image is almost acceptable, if oyu watch it on a 14" monitor. But the sound is alwys terrible, with a nice background of coughing and crinkling cellophane. Basically anyone who'd be satisfied with that is not at all likely to have bought a ticket, or even the legal DVD. In fact the only way
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Yes you are. Have you ever seen one of these camcorder videos?
No, we aren't talking about camcorder rips. The typical source for first run films is screener copies and people inside the studio.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:0)
Yes we are. Did you even read the story summary before you posted?
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
The discussion took a slight turn when we started talking about wide distribution. Camcorder rips are roundly reviled as the substandard pieces of crap they are. By making them the subject of criminal law, we will hopefully achieve a higher grade of bootleg movies.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
May I remind you that the topic is "Senate Unanimously Passes Anti-Camcorder Bill". And that will have no effect on screener copies, unless it's attached to that bill (it well may be, I haven't the stomach to wade through the legalese).
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
May I remind you that the topic is "Senate Unanimously Passes Anti-Camcorder Bill". And that will have no effect on screener copies, unless it's attached to that bill (it well may be, I haven't the stomach to wade through the legalese).
So, basically, the only effect will be that somebody will be charged with a felony for possessing a camcorder in his backpack while on vacation. The impact on piracy will be nil.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:2)
Nice jibe. I'm Canadian and I'd have to say that if you can't force us to join you in Iraq, you don't own us. Vietnam, Cuba... etc. We're our own country, and thinking otherwise is stupid.
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:1)
I thought this [sciences-po.fr] map was all of the Americas, isn't it?
Re:What Country are YOU living in? (Score:3, Interesting)
This law isn't about punishing American malefactors. I would bet the problem of pirating films with vidcams isn't even serious in the USA. This law was passed so that we can show our international trading partners (East Asia, among others) that we're serious about intellectual property and hence so should they be. The USA has to create and impose some way of protecting intellectual property, because nowadays, it's among our major exports.
The fact that it's easy enough for anyone with a CD-R to "produce" th
That's the trouble (Score:0)
They're clearly not. But if we don't pretend that, we don't produce anything else of value these days.
We're in for a heap of trouble when the rest of the world wakes up.