McCain Campaign Protests YouTube's DMCA Policy

Colz Grigor writes "It appears that CBS and Fox have submitted DMCA takedown notices to YouTube for videos from the McCain campaign. The campaign is now complaining about YouTube's DMCA policy making it too easy for copyright holders to remove fair-use videos. I hope they pursue this by addressing flaws in the DMCA."

We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

Is it wrong for me to hope that the same thing happens to Obama so that when either of them win, they remember the idiocy that is the DMCA and reform it?

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

Is it wrong for me to hope that the same thing happens to Obama so that when either of them win...

No, it isn't.

they remember the idiocy that is the DMCA and reform it?

It is naive of you to hope for this part, though. Good luck with that.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

CBS and FOX won't do it to Obama because they *like* Obama. They don't mind if Obama uses their videos to help him win the election.

Yeah, FOX *loves* Obama.

What, are you stoned?

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

FOX is less socialist than NBC, CBS, ABC, et cetera, but they are still socialist.

Best. Joke. Ever.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

Socialised healthcare? MADNESS, and it'll never work anyways. Name at least one first world country that has public health care!

Oh, wait... All of them, sans the US.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

* (The real blame lies with the 1990s president who repealed the Glass-Steagall of 1933 which allowed banks to invest in risky stocks, and thereby created the current crisis. But the media is being hush-hush about that. Don't want to risk losing the Obama election.)

Continue to believe what you want to believe. But the repeal of this act had nothing to do with the current crash. The majority of this can be put onto bad lending practices and the bundling and selling of these loans. The repeal of the GS Act of 1933 did not allow for 125% LTV loans to folks who did not substantiate their income. It did not cause banks to ignore credit risk. That was just greed. And the fact is that the Fair Credit Act specifically required that banks take into account borrowers' ability to repay when making loans. Had existing regulation been enforced, none of this crap would have come to pass.

I am a fiscal conservative, and hate to see government regulation when it isn't necessary. What I see coming to pass is a lot more feel good legislation, and lax enforcement. We have the proper level of regulation in place right now, but when it is not enforced, it is worthless.

But, hey, good job trying to pass the buck. Of course, prefacing it with "FOX luvs the Democrats!!!111!" kinda outs you right off the bat.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

(For that matter, Democratic president Clinton could have vetoed the bill in 1999, and thereby kept Glass-Steagall in full force.)

Look it up: any bill passed by more than two thirds is veto-proof.

I do blame the Republicans as well as the Democrats in congress for passing the bill, but we have bank lobbyists to thank for that!

In case you are forgetting, the senate currently has 51 democratic senators, not nearly enough to override Bush's inevitable veto.

Next time you contribute, please at least try to educate yourself on the basic principles of our government.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

CBS and FOX won't do it to Obama because they *like* Obama. They don't mind if Obama uses their videos to help him win the election.

>>>I hope they pursue this by addressing flaws in the DMCA.

Do you actually know that Obama's campaign hasn't had takedowns used against them, or are you assuming?

** (The real blame lies with the 1990s president who repealed the Glass-Steagall of 1933 which allowed banks to invest in risky stocks, and thereby created the current crisis. But the media is being hush-hush about that. Don't want to risk losing the Obama election.)

Sure. I'm sure that a single piece of legislation caused the whole thing. I notice that you conveniently forget that the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act [wikipedia.org] was sponsored by republicans (Phil Gramm strikes again), and passed the senate on a party-line vote with only one democrat crossing over. But sure, you go right ahead and believe that the Republicans are in no way responsible for our situation.

I notice also that you neglect to take any notice of other things that contributed quite a bit to our situation, such as the Commodity and Futures Modernization Act of 2000 [wikipedia.org] (more of Phil Gramm's handiwork). This was also a republican bill, but it was supported by a few dems as well. You might want to look into how this relates [wikipedia.org] to the AIG situation [npr.org] and how that affected [motherjones.com] the banks.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

OK, at the risk of sounding reasonable (and losing karma) I think we need to put the blame where blame is due.

As a conservative, I generally vote Republican. However, I am mature enough to recognize that many of the elected officials in the Republican party have directly or indirectly caused the current economic situation. I am also knowledgeable enough to recognize that the elected officials in the Democratic party are equally to blame.

The blame lies with Republicans, Democrats, the Legislative branch, and the Executive branch. (I don't have enough information to blame the Judicial branch for anything.) ALL are equally guilty, and BOTH parties make equally valid statements about the other's responsibility.

Yes, Clinton's fiscal decisions (Glass-Steagall act repealed, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, others) had their hand in creating this downturn. Yes, Republican legislation (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act) and partisanship also had their hand in creating this downturn.

Skip the partisanship. Give the blame where it is due--not with the party that differs with your own viewpoint (whichever party that may be), but the elected officials sitting in the Senate, the House, and Pennsylvania Avenue.

Let's be a little more reasonable here, OK?

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

FOX won't do it to Obama because they *like* Obama.

You are Karl Rove, and I claim my £5.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

The sad thing is they won't. Here they have clear and direct personal experience of the DMCA as currently implemented preventing legitimate content from being posted. You'd think that would do it. But they're* pleading special case for politicians, rather than calling for reform of the DMCA as a whole. And if they're taking that stance now, while the issue is hot and they might win a few votes for challenging an unpopular law, there's little chance of them turning around and calling for reform later.

*I say they, I'll pretty much bet the Obama camp takes a similar stance to the McCain camp, I guess we'll see.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

It's completely different provisions that make the DMCA unpopular.

Shielding service providers as long as they promptly process takedowns and put content back up on counter-notices is a Good Thing; without it YouTube wouldn't exist. Moreover, the DMCA provides for legal penalties if misused -- if a supposed copyright holder has something taken back down after the person who posted it gave a counter-notice, they're on the hook if such was done wrongly.

The McCain campaign is presumably whining about the process because the information they're trying to promulgate is time-sensitive (only relevant up to the election) and they don't want the downtime it takes to provide counter-notices -- but once they do provide counter-notices, CBS/NBC/whoever won't be able to have it taken back down without risking their own necks. It's a good process, though, and I don't see any reason to fill it with loopholes.

The parts of the DMCA that make it illegal to circumvent the dongle check in the 15-year-old piece of accounting software my consulting client's small business uses (company long out of business, dongle recently broken) are complete BS, but the takedown and counter-notice process is reasonable.

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

*I say they, I'll pretty much bet the Obama camp takes a similar stance to the McCain camp, I guess we'll see.

Well, one way to hold Obama's feet to the fire is to say that you will vote for McCain if Obama doesn't say that he will reform the DCMA.

Here is the thing, if this issue really is that important to you, then you must be willing to make sacrifices (Voting for McCain if you were planning to vote Obama, or the reverse). They need to know that their position, or lack thereof is worse than people not voting for them, they are actively voting against them. It is a bitter pill to swallow, for them and us. Who will blink first?

This holds true for whatever candidate you support. Threaten to withdraw that support, and mean it, if there are issues you need addressed. The other candidate may not be what you prefer, but you can be damned sure that all promises made to special interests will be forgotten if keeping them means costing them the actual election. If there is one thing that politicians like more than lobbyist money, it is winning the election in the first place.

If IP/copyright reform is as important to Slashdotters as we claim, then you HAVE to take positions like this to force it to be a real issue. Again, a bitter pill, and not for everyone, but you have to ask yourself, how important is copyright reform to me?

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

If anything happens, they'll just see to it that the DMCA doesn't apply to political ads.

Checkmate

If anything happens, they'll just see to it that the DMCA doesn't apply to political ads.

That would be perfect.

Since there does exist an actual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party [wikipedia.org] Pirate Party. Now put a political message in the metadata of your files, and claim your exemption.

I'm certain that The Pirate Party would have no issue endorsing files so that they received DCMA exemptions.

(The Pirate Party of Podunk County has approved this message)

Re:We Can Only Hope the Same Happens to Obama

they'll just see to it that the DMCA doesn't apply to political ads.

McCain looks and acts like a 300 year old vampire. Obama is gonna give him an ass kicking Blade style!

AdObama4Pres-Blade1.torrent 619.43 MB

----------------------

McCain is 72 years young, and as strong and healthy as when he was 20!

AdMcCainYoungAndVigorous-Cocoon.torrent 601.45 MB

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Fair use or Political attacks?

Why should McCain be against takedowns? That seems to be the entirety of his election strategy this year.

Oh please

To think that the DMCA defenders would actually change their minds over this is ridiculous. They wont care about the DMCA since it doesn't affect them for the most part. Once the videos are back, the DMCA will once again be "a much needed weapon to save hundreds of thousands of jobs in the US, it said so right here in this report".

What's good for the goose...

McCain voted for a bill (the DMCA) that made service providers responsible for doing an immediate takedown of content alleged to have been improperly posted regardless of the merits of the complaint if they wanted the fullest protections the law could provide. Complaining when a company is complying in full with that law hardly seems fitting.

It's almost a shame the Obama campaign isn't submitting more content (defensible as fair use) that could be mechanically considered to infringe themselves; if this were the case, there would be less perception that YouTube is pushing a political agenda via their takedown process.

Obama foresaw this and prevented it

Anyone remember this article?
Obama Requests Creative Commons for Presidential Debates [slashdot.org]

That is when I started liking the guy. Seems like he was even more prescient than I thought.

Want to end the campaign now? Ask this:

I would love to have this question asked at tonight's debate.

"Senator McCain, your campaign is complaining that it is being unfairly censored by the DMCA. How do you reconcile your complaint when you yourself voted for this exact measure?

I'm no Obama supporter, but I'd love to watch him answer that question.

Re:Want to end the campaign now? Ask this:

My friends, I've always been a maverick and an outsider. So when I voted for the DMCA, I knew that I was sticking it to the man. Because, as a Senator, I am 'The Man'. It was the most logical way for me to stick it to myself.

Web Forms - So you can laugh at your Senator

Here's a copy of an email I sent to my fellow Arizonan:

Ah, John. Your ill-advised vote back in 1998 for the DMCA has come back to bite you. It was with great pleasure that I read that Youtube was taking down your campaign videos due to a DMCA demand by Fox and CBS. You helped pass it. Sir, Barry Goldwater was a conservative. William Buckley was a conservative. A conservative wants FEWER laws, not more. LESS government regulation, not more. A conservative encourages a business-friendly environment - NOT a "business gets anything it wants" environment. You have forgotten the difference, and now you are paying the price. Your presidential campaign is all but over. You have lost the conservative base with your poorly-thought-out desperate attempts to please everyone. You had us, right until you took the supremely idiotic step of suspending your campaign - which was a clear political ploy that backfired. Capitalism is vital, but part of the price of capitalism is sometimes suffering failure. Bankruptcy, too is part of the failure process - entrepreneurs and other people need to know that they have a chance to start over if they fail. Your vote on the Bankruptcy Act of 2005, making it MORE difficult for all but the richest Americans to declare bankruptcy was another gift to business. And still, you persist in giving business whatever they want, at the expense of average Americans, with your recent idiotic vote on the "Copyright Czar" legislation. The record companies and motion picture companies have a broken business model that is being supplanted by new technologies, and like your ridiculous bank bailout bill you have chosen to give them what they want rather than letting them pay the price of failure. I will be voting for Bob Barr this election, not out of any hope that he will win, but rather in the hope that Republican political operatives will realize that increasing numbers of their traditional base can no longer stomach voting for so-called "Republicans" who don't seem any different from Democrats. I look forward to supporting your continued efforts in the Senate on behalf of Arizona, but your presidential campaign is over.

Re:HAHAHAHAHAHA

here's the actual vote:
SENATE: 100% Democrats; 100% Republicans (unaminous)
HOUSE: 90% Democrats; 85% Republicans (veto-proof)
PRESIDENT:
Signed by *democrat* William J. Clinton in 1998.

What was that about being a "republican" bill? It looks like a typical Duopoly bill to me, supported by BOTH sides, since they both pretty much act alike.

Re:HAHAHAHAHAHA

here's the actual vote:
SENATE: 100% Democrats; 100% Republicans (unaminous)
HOUSE: 90% Democrats; 85% Republicans (veto-proof)
PRESIDENT:
Signed by *democrat* William J. Clinton in 1998.

What was that about being a "republican" bill? It looks like a typical Duopoly bill to me, supported by BOTH sides, since they both pretty much act alike.

People like the person you were addressing are a serious impediment to rational discourse on the internet. They are insulated by the web, and have created some sort of cognitive dissonance that hides the real world situation from themselves.

Typical fanboy behavior. Unfortunately, it applies to all aspects of society; Sports teams, cities, nations, ethnicities, OS, and obviously politicians all have their fanboys. What really bugs me is when people like him get so wound up in their own fanaticism that they begin to engage in the old practice of 'If I can't have it, then no one can.'

But thanks for looking up the vote totals. I like to see that sort of information tossed back at these fanatics at every opportunity regardless of claims to any political ideology.