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Tapping the Web's Collective Wisdom For Patents
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Sep 16, 2008 04:46 AM
from the crowdsourcing-prior-art dept.
from the crowdsourcing-prior-art dept.
BountyX sends in a CNN story offering an update on the US patent office's experiment in crowdsourcing, called Peer-to-Patent. (We've discussed this initiative a few times in the last couple of years.) In its first year the program has dealt with a minuscule fraction of patent applications, which numbered over 467,000 in 2007, up over 97% from a decade earlier. "The Patent Office reports that it has issued preliminary decisions on 40 of the 74 applications that have come through the program so far. Of those, six cited prior art submitted only through Peer-to-Patent, while another eight cited art found by both the examiner and peer reviewers... [I]n its second year, Peer-to-Patent is being expanded to include claims covering electronic commerce and so-called 'business methods' ..."
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A Simple Plan To Defeat Dumb Patents 234 comments
Steve Jones writes "With the EU being rumored to look at software patents again I thought I'd have a look at the root of the problem — the US Patent Office — and work out if there is a simple way to defeat dumb patents. The big thing that defeats a patent is prior art. At the Patent Office they have the definition of Prior Art that includes the phrase: 'known or used by others in this country, or was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country.' Now suppose that every time we have an idea that we think is 'obvious' but that hasn't been done before, or something we think would be interesting but don't have the money to create — that we blogged about that idea, tagging it as 'prior art' via Technorati. This would give people an RSS feed of prior art." Read on for more details of Steve's proposal.
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Behind the USPTO's Working With Peer-To-Patent 39 comments
Down-with-the-patents writes "As this community discussed earlier, the US Patent and Trademark Office is collaborating with the Peer-to-Patent program to stop bad patents from issuing. Brigid Quinn, spokesperson for the USPTO, explains the motivation of the USPTO to open up to the public what has been a behind-closed-doors process. Groklaw's Pamela Jones notes that 'when it comes to software, there is more knowledge outside of USPTO than inside it.' While some of Jones's readers are staying away from the pilot program, hoping that the patent system will just collapse of its own weight, Jones says that's a goal she understands but doesn't view as realistic. The project seems to be doing pretty well with over 1,000 active participants, and plans to replicate it in other patent offices starting with the UK next year." Slashdot and Linux.com toil for the same corporate overlord.
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The Web's Collective Wisdom... (Score:3, Funny)
(reply only with a more clever analogy)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
FRIST!!!
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I was thinking, never understimate the stupidity of people in large crowds.
Yes, there is room left for small time innovators (Score:5, Informative)
A good plan (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I'm sure there will be a bunch of people moaning that this is getting "us" doing "their" job for free. Well hell the time spent here on Slashdot having ago at the Patent office is already high enough so why not be constructive in using that time?
The only problem I see with this is that they haven't really invested in the tech side of crowd sourcing. How about a SETI style desktop app that just notifies you and lets you go "ooooh that one looks crap, I'm taking it down" rather than a build it and they will come approach. The key here is going to be getting more eyes on the problem which means pushing the patents out rather than just waiting for people to respond. Personally I'd be happy to have a list of patents in my specialised areas that I could dissect and destroy. Its almost worthy of a CV mention, not just the patents that you've been granted but the ones that you've prevented being granted.
Don't bitch and moan, this is a good use of the internet and crowd sourcing to get round a problem of dumb patent submissions from large corps. Yes its your time, but you'll just have to post one less time on Slashdot, and spend 5 minutes less reading comments on Digg.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, I'm not a patent lawyer (though nor, I suspect are you) so there might be something I'm missing, but I don't think this is a good use of our time.
These patents have been accepted That means that we failed in peer to patent. The patents were accepted with new prior art. That means that it's no longer easy to use that prior art to challenge the patent. The patent examiner has taken it into account and accepted the patent anyway. I think that, if the prior art had remained secret, it could be broug
The problem with Patents (Score:3, Insightful)
The second biggest problem is that "someone skilled in the art..." really means a Judge who is skilled in legalese.
The lawyers and patent attorneys are loving it.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with patents is not so much that they are issued left right and center for just about any stupid claim.
You are wrong. It's the source of the problem.
The courts seem to assume that a issued patent is by default valid where this is clearly not that case. At least not currently.
See, now you are on to it. The courts assume the patent office is working as intended. They assume that PO is rejecting "wrong" patents. It's how they should work. The way to improve this is not lowering court costs but improving PO work.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Forcing all of this on the patent office could work if there was a lot more money *for the patent office*, as opposed to lawyers. Either the fees goes way up and/or they get a bigg
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Personally, I would like to see the USPTO go the way of the dodo. Or, rather, the way of the copyright office. Let everything be patented by default like copyrights, and as long as someone who produces something can reference other patents as the invention, or patentless inventions, they have done no wrong.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The second biggest problem is that "someone skilled in the art..." really means a Judge who is skilled in legalese.
That's because the PHOSITA (Person Having Ordinary Skill In The Art) doesn't exist! If a lawyer tries to bring in an expert witness to testify that something is obvious to someone ordinarily skilled in the art, he's caught on Morton's Fork. Either (a) the witness is not an expert, and therefore cannot be qualified to testify, or (b) the witness is an expert, and is ipso facto extraordinarily skilled.
The fact that an invention is obvious to someone who is extraordinarily skilled says nothing about whethe
Spamming and Trolling (Score:3, Informative)
www.peertopatent.org [peertopatent.org]
That is the link to sign up and become a reviewer.
dotank.nyls.edu [nyls.edu]
That's the code of conduct, which lists conduct rules, moderator privileges, and the information contributors are required to provide.
Apparently there is a voting system.
That's going to be an interesting thing to watch. They're relying on the bulk of contributors defining the most appropriate content, kind of like slashdot.
How well does that work anyways?
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, the idea is somewhat similar to Feynman's model of the "sum over paths" in quantum electrodynamics. Even if the single statement is completely bogus, in the end contradictionary statements will cancel each other out, and statements supporting each other are adding up to a kind of "truth vector".
too bad (Score:2)
not to sound like a total downer, but if you can influence the peer group you can influence the outcome.
signal to noise (Score:3, Insightful)
Given the level of understanding shown on this and other internet forums, I fear that the signal to noise ratio of such an initiative will be so poor that the whole thing will be a massive waste of time.
How many ill-informed and inappropriate "prior art" submissions do the internet masses need to make before patent reviewers just start ignoring them?
Let's look at the numbers (Score:4, Insightful)
b I used to work for the US government at one time and I can promise you all that they will never, never, never do anything to cut their funding and lowering the number of patents would cut their funding. They will instead set up bogus programs like this that will catch a few bad patents, which they will then hold up as examples that things are changing for the better. It's all smoke and mirrors.
New Business method (Score:2, Funny)
2- get someone more competent and involved to do it for free
3- profit !!
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It's true. The USPTO would have to get up _early_ in the morning to become any more incompetent than it already is.
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I never really understood the business method patent thing.
can I build a copy of a patented item if I want?
Isn't it only illegal if I try to sell that item?
a company isn't selling it's business method.
So unless it's a consultancy firm which makes it's money restructuring other businesses...
Re:How can anyone defend patents for business meth (Score:4, Interesting)
I never really understood the business method patent thing.
can I build a copy of a patented item if I want?
Isn't it only illegal if I try to sell that item?
a company isn't selling it's business method.
So unless it's a consultancy firm which makes it's money restructuring other businesses...
You can use a patent spec for research purposes or when you will not harm the financial benefit to the patent holder (IIRC). So you can't sell it, but also you can't benefit financially nor cause a financial detriment to the patent holder. So you can't give patented stuff away (without a license) as this potentially harms the patent holders income. If you're using a business method then you're gaining financially from it ... ergo ...
Business Method patents are a weird thing in a capitalist economy though.
Note that pure business methods (without technical elements) aren't supposed to be patentable in Europe.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
So if I profit(time saved by moving faster can be invested otherwise and so can lead to a profit) from my homebrew segway or other patented item then I've broken the law?
Wow, American patent law is utterly broken...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
...you do realise that patents are public domain?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You know you're free to view those patents anyway.