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Yale Students' Lawsuit Unmasks Anonymous Trolls

Posted by timothy on Thu Jul 31, 2008 03:02 PM
from the hate-is-such-an-ugly-word dept.
palegray.net writes "Two female Yale law school students have used the courts to ascertain the identities of otherwise anonymous posters to an Internet forum, with the intent of prosecuting them for hateful remarks left on the boards. At a minimum, the posters' future legal careers are certainly jeopardized by these events. While I'm not certainly not supporting or encouraging hateful speech online, these controversial actions hold potentially far-reaching consequences for Internet privacy policy and free speech." According to the linked Wired Law article, "The women themselves have gone silent, and their lawyers — two of whom are now themselves being sued — are not talking to the press."
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  • :x (Score:5, Funny)

    by cushdan (949520) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:05PM (#24421581)
    I don't feel comfortable posting a comment.
  • by mark2003 (632879) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:07PM (#24421611)
    This is not a free speech issue - the posters made threatening and offensive comments, inlcuding suggesting that they would assault/rape the female students.

    These comments would not be tolerated in any other setting so why should they be tolerated online?
    • by ElectricTurtle (1171201) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:18PM (#24421831)
      Offensive speech is still free, so long as it is a matter of opinion and not fact. I can say 'John is a jerk' and be protected by the first amendment because it is not libel if it is my opinion of somebody. If I say 'John has herpes' (and he doesn't) that is libel because it's a demonstrable, objective state that can be proven to be untrue, rather than a difference of opinion. Threats aren't protected speech either. I don't know why this is a big deal, some people made threats and were given what they were due. I'd expect the same to be done to anybody who made threats. If it were just libel I might be more concerned, as the effects of libel on the internet are less clearly defined. Libel is more 'effective' between people in meatspace because of reasonable differences in the level of trust. I simply wouldn't trust every nasty rumor on the internet as a matter of what I would think of as common sense, but I might trust the same rumors from a close associate in person.
    • by Ethanol-fueled (1125189) * on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:22PM (#24421905) Homepage
      There's a big difference between saying "So-and-so's business practices are suspect" and saying "So-and-so gave me herpes and I'm going to kill them."

      This wouldn't be too bad if potential employers and romantic interests weren't so damn nosey -- imagine kicking ass in a job interview for a good position only to discover that you were turned down because your psychotic, jealous ex with a lot of time on their hands gamed Google(or created a fake MySpace page) and made you out to be a drunk, zoophile, or worse!

      Dosen't matter if the incendiary posts were written by people called "HitlerHitlerHitler" and "GoatseFan1" -- the hiring manager may think, "Hmm, he/she sure does have a lot of enemies" or "I'd rather not have all that controversy attached to somebody who works for me." Same applies to potential romantic interests.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:29PM (#24422031)

        I think this points to how anonymity is *usually* used for evil

        Really? C'mon... remember that next time you visit that medical web site to ask about that really embarrassing rash. You might want to be anonymous when inquiring about your options on terminating an unwanted pregnancy. You might also enjoy the anonymity when you visit those pr0n sites, when you criticize Scientology, when you're playing Unreal instead of working, when you visit that atheism web-site. When you bare your soul at an AA-type forum, you might not want your name on there. Or maybe you're blowing the whistle on your company's poisoning your town by publishing incriminating documents...

        Anonymity on the Internet certainly has its downside, but I think it's one of the major features for why MANY millions of people use the Internet in the first place-- it can is a liberating, empowering experience to participate in open forums, chat rooms, etc. without fear of personal consequence. Yes, people say things that they would not say otherwise including libelous accusations and even threats... but I think the upside FAR outweighs the downside.

        Posted anonymously, of course.

      • by HappySmileMan (1088123) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:31PM (#24422061)

        I think this points to how anonymity is *usually* used for evil, instead of good like most geeks think about it.

        One lawsuit can't prove that something is "usually" true or false. What it shows is that in at least 2 cases (one for each of the trolls) anonymity is used for evil. You need a lot more than 2 cases to say that the majority of anonymous people on the internet are using it for evil

  • Technicality? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lord Ender (156273) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:07PM (#24421617) Homepage

    Hateful speech is not illegal. False claims that substantially harm a person ARE illegal under slander/libel law. This law applies whether the comments are online or on the playground.

    • Re:Technicality? (Score:5, Informative)

      by abscissa (136568) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:22PM (#24421907)

      Of course, world-wide, we have different laws.

      Hateful speech is not illegal.

      See R. v. Keegstra [hrcr.org]. In Canada at least, you do not have an unlimited right to free speech, even if you are not targeting a specific person.

      tl,dr: Making hateful statements against a particular identifiable group is illegal in Canada.

      • Re:Technicality? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by DamnStupidElf (649844) <Fingolfin@linuxmail.org> on Thursday July 31 2008, @04:00PM (#24422653)

        Making hateful statements against a particular identifiable group is illegal in Canada.

        Does it depend on the group? Can I hate lawyers, politicians, and statisticians?

        What about pirates, Real Pirates (the board-a-ship-and-kill-people kind), rapists, serial killers, or nazis?

        All of those are pretty identifiable groups. Which ones can I explicitly say that I hate? I want to be sure I can get through customs next time...

  • I don't know... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SatanicPuppy (611928) * <Satanicpuppy@@@gmail...com> on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:10PM (#24421669) Journal

    This is a pretty straightforward bit of libel...Even on the internets you have to be careful if you're explicitly slandering someone by name.

    Illegal is illegal, and if these monkeys were dumb enough to put up all this crap under handles that they accessed from their homes, then they're screwed, and it's hard to see how they ought not be.

      • Re:I don't know... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Dekortage (697532) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:41PM (#24422261) Homepage

        From the article and the court documents it appears that the plaintiffs are both "Jane Doe"s. That means that their identity was not explicitly known to everyone (else the Jane Doe ploy makes no sense) and that it is the supposed attacker's identity which is being exposed instead.

        The article notes that "the Jane Doe plaintiffs contend that the postings about them became etched into the first page of search engine results on their names," which strongly suggests that the posts included their real names, not just their online handles. If so, then the Jane Doe thing is to further distance their names from the media and search engines.

          • Re:I don't know... (Score:5, Informative)

            by Dekortage (697532) on Thursday July 31 2008, @04:06PM (#24422779) Homepage

            I realize I am breaking some kind of Slashdot rule here, but I've googled this further.

            On March 9, the Dean of Yale's law school wrote this [ms-jd.org]: "The Washington Post ran a story about several of our students who have been personally targeted on an internet message board. While this message board purports to be about law school and law school admissions, it contains numerous sexist, racist, homophobic and other derogatory comments by anonymous posters. Some of these comments include the names and personal information of our students and other individuals, along with many false and hurtful assertions."

            Furthermore, their names are stated clearly in this PDF [wsj.com] of Ciolli's lawsuit against the two women.

  • hmm (Score:5, Informative)

    by nomadic (141991) <nomadicworld@NOSpAM.gmail.com> on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:13PM (#24421727) Homepage
    This will almost certainly keep them out of the state Bar for a long period of time if not indefinitely. Even legally protected speech can be grounds for denial of bar membership.
    • Keep reading. It gets worse:

      The AutoAdmit controversy began even before one of the women, identified in court documents as "Jane Doe I," started classes in the fall of 2005, the lawsuit alleges. Doe I was alerted in the summer to an AutoAdmit comment thread entitled "Stupid Bitch to Attend Law School." The thread included messages such as, "I think I will sodomize her. Repeatedly" and a reply claiming "she has herpes." The second woman, Jane Doe II, was similarly attacked beginning in January 2007.

      I'd say they have a reasonable case here.

    • Re:Internets... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by superbus1929 (1069292) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:17PM (#24421815) Homepage
      The problem is... it is.

      Companies are going to great lengths to search for anything particularly incriminating on people that are applying for a job, and when you're starting out in a law firm - where your basically doing bitch work anyway, and your #1 job is fitting in - anything that they could find that could make a person look bad is going to be held against them. No one has any privacy left anymore, so things that used to get passed off as "kids being kids" have long-reaching consequences later in life. I cry for that.

      With all that said, no, I don't think that this case sets a good precedent. The fault here is anyone that would listen to anonymous slander and use it against the women in question for any reason.
      • Re:Internets... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by DrLang21 (900992) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:21PM (#24421899)
        Considering that anonymous trolls have a tendancy to feed off of eachother, I would not be surprised if this whole case has the opposite of the desired effect. More anonymous trolls will probably blast them. If someone is going to seek damages for some absurd post by an anonymous troll, they should think hard about whether or not any real damage is being done.
      • by $RANDOMLUSER (804576) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:23PM (#24421931)
        Sister Bernice always warned me that things were going to Go On My Permanent Record.
      • Re:Internets... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Southpaw018 (793465) * on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:44PM (#24422343) Journal
        So you can post whatever you want under the guise of anonymity, full stop? Free speech has never meant freedom from consequences. Forgetting that is a dire mistake to make.
        • Re:Internets... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mapsjanhere (1130359) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:51PM (#24422489)
          As long as the anonymous troll trolls with other anonymous trolls, everything is fine. These idiots were smearing the real names of future competitors in order to ruin their careers before they even have started.
          I personally can't wait until the top entry in google on their names will be "got sued by Jane Doe for defamation", together with a link to their highly professional statements. I'm sure it will greatly enhance their careers in the fast food industry.
      • Re:Internets... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mhall119 (1035984) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:57PM (#24422619) Homepage Journal

        No one has any privacy left anymore

        Privacy starts at home, kids. If you don't want a future employer seeing pictures of you drunk and naked at a frat party, don't put them on the internet!

        Seriously, the biggest privacy problem we have these days is people thinking that everything is private unless they explicitly make it public, but reality doesn't work that way. Nobody goes walking down the street naked, then claims their privacy was violated when people looked at them. Well, the internet is no different. If you want something on the internet kept private, you have to make it private, otherwise it's public.

    • Re:Supid girls (Score:5, Informative)

      by RightSaidFred99 (874576) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:54PM (#24422549)
      You can't write whatever the fuck you want, sorry. You can't threaten to do bodily harm to someone. You can't slander/libel them. These are the rules. If it was just them saying "XYZ is a stupid **** and she's a horrible lawyer and I hate her and I hope she catches AIDS and dies" then I'd agree with you. Claiming she has herpes (unless she does, that wasn't spelled out in article and would slightly change my opinion on this particular) and saying he's going to rape her is a different ballpark.

      If he's allowed to say those things, then her father/brother/boyfriend should be allowed to brutally murder the AC to protect her from rape (he did say he'd rape her). We (society) afford you rights and place limits on those rights, in exchange we protect you from your fellow man. Them's the rules. "God" didn't give us any rights, your rights are, in practice, what society decides your rights are. Often I disagree with society, but not in this case.

    • by taustin (171655) on Thursday July 31 2008, @03:57PM (#24422611) Homepage Journal

      Granted, hate speech is a somewhat subjective issue,

      What body is going to decide what exactly is hate speech on the Internet?

      Oddly enough, there is a body whose job is to determine the facts on matters that are somewhat subjective, and alledged to be harmful. That body is called "a jury."