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US Justice Dept. Sued For Cellular Tracking Information

Posted by Soulskill on Sunday July 06, @08:20AM
from the portable-deprivatizer dept.
Privacy Cellphones Government Security United States
tpaudio writes "The ACLU and the EFF are suing the Department of Justice over how the government might be using GPS and location data from cell phones. With over 200 million Americans carrying cell phones, this could be pretty important for setting guidelines. We have already seen other frightening powers related to cell phones, such as 'cell mic tapping.'" The ACLU press release is also available, and it contains links to the complaint and the Freedom of Information Act request. We've previously discussed instances of cell phone tracking in the US and elsewhere.

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Firehose:US Justice Dept. sued on cellular tracking by tpaudio (651186)
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  • Already possible (Score:5, Funny)

    by NadMutter (631470) on Sunday July 06, @08:31AM (#24074153)

    There already is a website dedicated to tracking spouses. http://www.sat-gps-locate.com/english/index.html [sat-gps-locate.com]

    • It's just a link to a joke site. Why someone modded it insightful, I can't figure.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by story645 (1278106) *

        To give him karma points? He's pretty new and far as I know, Funny doesn't get karma, so they may have been trying to be nice.

        Or the joke was insightful? The site looks pretty real, and it's totally not far fetched to believe that somebody's already implemented this for profit. Hell, there are plenty of sites that track spouses, invade their privacy, etc. I've heard of people installing key loggers to get into their spouses emails. Lots of people seem really quick to throw away all their ideals about privac

  • Open source really isn't a solution. (Not that I don't want a fully open source cell-phone.) So long as the shut down procedure is implemented in software, someone at the FBI can find a way around it.

    What we need to do is go back to the days when the off switch was a switch that broke the circuit connecting the power supply to the devices. That way, you shut it off, and it is off.

    An even better solution (since I don't really trust it to be off unless I can see the circuits are inoperable) is a phone with t

  • With regards to the story about the mafia being listened into with their cell phones and as also noted in the original affidavit related to the case: the cell phones were altered, i.e they were bugged: they were not dealing with off the shelf goods. The interesting part of the story was how they managed to obtain these mobile phones for alteration/switching. Bugging a device that already has the necessary parts to transmit audio is pretty unexciting.

  • Ever get the feeling... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kaliann (1316559) on Sunday July 06, @08:48AM (#24074201)

    That somewhere in the Justice Dept. there's someone throwing a temper tantrum because someone took away their totally illegal advantage?

    "Court decisions indicate that USAOs claim not to need probable cause to obtain real-time tracking information. News reports further suggest that some field offices are violating a Department of Justice 'internal recomendation' that 'federal procecutors seek warrants based on probable cause to obtain precise location data in private areas.'"

    Don't make us get probable cause! Probable cause is for losers! And put the bumpers back into my bowling lanes!

    I love it when my rights are seen as an inconvenience. (Though it's nice that someone has RECOMMENDED that probable cause be found.)

    Seriously, they're law enforcement: finding probable cause IS THEIR JOB.

    • Re:Ever get the feeling... (Score:5, Informative)

      by value_added (719364) on Sunday July 06, @10:46AM (#24074735)

      Don't make us get probable cause! Probable cause is for losers! And put the bumpers back into my bowling lanes!

      I'm a big fan of sarcasm, but instead of going the bumper-sticker advocacy route, I'd suggest visiting the ACLU and clicking the Donate Now [aclu.org] button. That way when someone slams you with a "What are you? A pinko liberal card-carrying member of the ACLU?", they'd be at least partially correct for a change.

      Similarly, you can visit the EFF website and become a member [eff.org]. Don't know if they give you a card to carry, but the free T-shirt could be worn by any geek with pride.

      While I expect some of the more egregious abuses of the current administration may end when it packs up its bags and heads out the door, I don't expect to see the trend they represent to subside, or that in the future, there will fewer stories on Slashdot and in the mainstream press where the ACLU, the EFF and similar groups aren't forced to take yet another action to protect our rights.

      • Could someone who was politically aware when Bush the First was in power please explain why belonging to the ACLU was such a dig back then? The whole "if you're a red-blooded American you don't need civil liberties" position is a big WTF to me.

        • Could someone who was politically aware when Bush the First was in power please explain why belonging to the ACLU was such a dig back then?

          It started before the Bush and Rove twins assumed power. Maybe someone who lives and breathes this stuff can provide a more informative link describing the tortured history, but if it helps, this Wiki article [wikipedia.org] will get you started.

          Most of this you can date back to the Reagan administration. A quick and dirty summary would be that Reagan was elected during a time when th

  • This is exactly why we need phones with open firmwares running fully-published and open peer-reviewed code. I hope the openmoko comes close.
    • Phones based on OpenMoko might be a lot harder to bug using the built-in mic (without the user knowing it), but this story is about location data.

      Where your phone is at, is already tracked as a normal function of the cellphone network, because the network needs to determine what cell tower(s) your calls are routed through. So any time your phone is ready to make or receive calls, your provider knows where it is.

      It's safe to assume that some (or all) of that data is recorded somehow. In the European Un

      • Two gadgets I would like to see:

        1) A pager that can turn on your cell phone - then you could use a service like google grandcentral that rings all of your actual phone numbers and the pager would turn the cell phone on in response in time to actually answer the call.

        2) A cell phone with a directional antenna - you could point it at a tower that would normally be outside of your range. You would probably also want some sort of gadget, maybe a java app on the phone itself, that will show you heading and dist

  • Worse than all the privacy implications, this is making Enemy of the State [imdb.com] look plausible.
    --
    billeater - lower my bills [billeater.com]
    • Oh puuuhlease...you surely don't think this movie's premise could possibly ever happen???

      Simply because we now have the existence of the T.I.A. (made up of NSA, NGA and 90 plus government contractors performing domestic surveillance - including everything from pay-per-view at the hotels/motels, those cameras at all those toll booths, those security cameras throughout every major metropolis, your every online credit and check transaction courtesy of First Data...oh, I could go on, but what's the use...), not

  • You can't track people (Score:5, Informative)

    by LM741N (258038) on Sunday July 06, @10:48AM (#24074743)

    with the cellphone turned off. Witness the long times that phones take to turn on / reboot the uP, and you know that nothing is going on inside there unless someone physically gets a hold of your phone and installs some electronics in it. But working in the handset industry for years I can tell you there is not enough room in the phones for anything extra, no matter how compact.

    • Of course they can ... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Zero__Kelvin (151819) on Sunday July 06, @01:14PM (#24075585) Homepage

      "You can't track people with the cellphone turned off."

      Of course they can. The cell phone, when turned "off" is still operating. How else do you think it determines that you want to turn it on? It needs to figure out that you have held the button for a specific period of time (the same button normally used to disconnect a call when "on" .) Do you think it accomplishes this without the power? The cell phone is always powered even when "off" . Even if the CPU wasn't powered at all times, which it is, you are assuming that the IC that sends and recieves the analog signals to and from the cell are not operational, which is also a bogus assumption.

      ... and a few points to keep the clueless from responding to quickly, as they are wont to do:

      1. The CPU may be in a low power state until a key is pressed. It may not be clocked until that key is pressed. It may be drawing nanoamps of current. It is still powered .
      2. The signal is analog between the phone and the cell. It may be encoded and decoded digitally, but it is none the less an analog signal. In fact every signal in a computer is analog ! Digital is merely a special case of analog. All digital signals are analog. Not all analog signals are digital.

        "But working in the handset industry for years ..."

        Just a note to the people who read this line and assumed it was a reasonable voucher of credential:

        Working in the health industry for years does not qualify one to perform brain surgery. Working as a surgeon for years still may not do so. No offense intended to to LM741N (which ironically is an analog op-amp IC IIRC), but you are severiously misinformed.

  • What, you can sue because something is merely possible? That is amazing - Minority Report [wikipedia.org] here we come!

    Ken

    • What, you can sue because something is merely possible?

      Yeah, that was my first thought. Everyone here's bitching about how horrible it is that the government's spying on people, but that's missing the point entirely - I'm much more concerned about the fact that the ACLU is launching a lawsuit based on a guess.

    • You don't need GPS to locate the phone. The phone continually handshakes with multiple cells to support handoff between cells, and the phone company can use that information to locate and track you.

      • If the location finder on my iPhone is any indication of the accuracy of how phone companies 'find' you... In my area, all it does is say "You're somewhere within this 5 mile area that includes two towns."

      • Exactly so and well done!

        It is highly important to keep this capability and functionality as otherwise how would the bad guys, a k a, power elites, be able to track and terminate the likes of Phillip Merrill after he was ready to blow the whistle on the thievery of the Iraqi treasury by BushCo, plus the elimination of that Delta Force team that tipped off Seymour Hersh regarding their ordered standdown at Tora Bora (after sighting Osama bin L.); likewise the required termination of military personnel asso

    • IMO, it's not such a good thing it's being done out in the open. When it was secret, the government had to restrict the methods to high-value targets (mobsters, terrorists, political enemies, though perhaps not in that order), and even then often had to confirm (and appear to discover) the information through legal sources before moving against them, to avoid tipping off the other side. With this tracking being done openly, anyone can be a target -- and without a probable cause requirement, for any reason

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