Slashdot Log In
FISA Bill Vote Today, With Telco Immunity
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:25 PM
from the freedom-on-the-march dept.
from the freedom-on-the-march dept.
Bimo_Dude writes "Today (June 20), Steny Hoyer is bringing to the House floor the latest FISA bill (PDF), which includes retroactive immunity for the telcos. The bill also is very weak on judicial review, allowing the telcos to use a letter from the president as a 'get out of liability free' card. Here are comments from the EFF. Glenn Greenwald, writing in Salon, describes the effect of the immunity clause this way: 'So all the Attorney General has to do is recite those magic words — the President requested this eavesdropping and did it in order to save us from the Terrorists — and the minute he utters those words, the courts are required to dismiss the lawsuits against the telecoms, no matter how illegal their behavior was.'"
Related Stories
[+]
House Votes For Telco Immunity; Obama Will Support? 436 comments
We discussed telecom immunity yesterday ahead of the House vote. It passed by 293 votes to 129. Only one Republican voted against the bill; Democrats were evenly split. It now goes to the Senate. Reader Verteiron points out that Glenn Greenwald has up a post titled "Statement of Barack Obama supporting Hoyer FISA bill." It says that Obama will try to get the immunity provision removed, but failing that will vote for the overhauled wiretapping bill anyway. I couldn't find this on Obama's official site. Anyone seen a position from the McCain camp?
[+]
Politics: Dodd, Feingold To Try and Filibuster Immunity Bill 368 comments
shma writes "This morning the senate has a scheduled cloture vote to cut off debate on the FISA bill which grants retroactive immunity to telecoms who engaged in warrantless wiretapping. Senators Russ Feingold and Christopher Dodd have pledged to try and filibuster the bill, but require the vote of 40 senators to keep the filibuster alive. The article states that a similar 'threatened filibuster failed in February, when the Senate passed a measure that granted amnesty and largely legalized the President's secret warrantless wiretapping programs.' Should they lose the cloture vote, the bill is all but assured of passing. A proposed amendment stripping the immunity provision from the bill is also expected to fail."
[+]
Senate Delays Telecom Immunity Vote Until After July Recess 148 comments
ivantheshifty writes with news of a delayed vote (failed filibuster attempt aside) on the updated FISA bill which has been discussed here recently, in particular because it would grant telecom companies immunity (under certain conditions) from suits for wiretapping conducted at government request. According to the Associated Press story carried by the Washington Post, "Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and more than a dozen other senators who oppose telecom immunity threw up procedural delays that threatened to force the Senate into a midnight or weekend session. The prospect of further delays was enough to cause Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., to postpone the vote until after the weeklong July 4 vacation."
[+]
Senate Passes Telecom Immunity Bill 755 comments
zehnra writes "The U.S. Senate this afternoon passed the FISA Amendments Act, broadly expanding the president's warrantless surveillance authority and unconstitutionally granting retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that participated in the president's illegal domestic wiretapping program. The House of Representatives passed the same bill last month, and President Bush is expected to sign the legislation into law shortly." The New York Times has a story, as does the Associated Press (carried here by Yahoo!). Reader Guppy points out the roll call for the vote.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as I'm concerned, every single member of Congress who votes in favor of this bill is guilty of treason.
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is satisfactory evidence that you do not know the definition of the word in United States law. Start with the Constitution [archives.gov]--article III, section 3.
This is a monumentally stupid move, and (IMO, IANAL) illegal, but it is not "treason."
Parent
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
That's fine, but are you going to do something about it or just bitch online? You yanks always make a big deal about your right to keep and bear arms. Well, that right isn't worth much if once in a while you don't start actually putting bullets through the brains of those treasonous authoritarian fucks.
Parent
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
There's one small detail that you are overlooking.
Companies shouldn't be breaking the law just because the government tells them to!
And if they do, they SHOULD be punished! As should the people in the government that told them to break the law.
Parent
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see a single mention of the rights of the citizens of the USA in there, just a lot of talk about business and government becoming best buddies and scratching each others' backs.
What happened to by the people, for the people?
These days it seems to be more "buy the people".
Parent
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
If your a stock holder in one of these telecoms wouldn't you think they had some obligation to verify that what they were doing was indeed legal (it wasn't) and that they did not face exposure due to it (they should be exposed, and face serious consequences)?
Parent
Re:Treason (Score:5, Insightful)
They took an oath to uphold the constitution of the U.S.A. This is a violation of that oath. I would call this treason, yes.
Parent
What right do they have to grant immunity? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's like a rapist asking God for forgiveness. Only the victim has the right to forgive.
Stunning ignorance from my Rep (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been writing and calling my Congressman, Elliot Engel, on this issue for months. Yesterday I received an email from his staff stating he was happy to tell me there was no telecom immunity as of the March FISA vote. Upset that this completely neglected to mention how he planned to vote on this bill today, I called his office. The staffer said she'd never heard of FISA or telecom immunity. I called a different office, and they said they didn't know where he stood on the issue but they'd be happy to call me back once he voted. Talk about a joke. This has really been eye-opening to me.
Game over man, game over! (Score:5, Informative)
I was watching it live on CSPAN, pretty disgusting. Just remember who voted for this when elections come up.
Lets fund some primary challengers (Score:5, Insightful)
On both sides of the isle. Both parties have lost their way and are now off in despotic cuckoo-land. Whatever we have become, if they have their way we will certainly be no Republic any longer. The only option is to boot every damn representative who votes for this bill regardless of party. They clearly do not represent a constitution of a nation ruled by laws and not men.
I say we start with Representatives Pelosi, Hoyer, and Bond.
tar and feather the sob's (Score:5, Insightful)
Heck, we should tar and feather them anyway...every presidential candidate should learn what it feels like before they reach that office.
What will Obama do ? (Score:5, Insightful)
As the new de facto leader of the Democratic Party, and as a Senator, Barack Obama could stop this with a word. What will he say ? Will he stand up for liberty ? Or betray it before he even gets elected ?
You Deserve It (Score:5, Insightful)
You gave up your rights to feel safe because you don't want the responsibility.
You feel safe because you abdicated your responsibility to ensure the govt did not run over the people.
Look ! Its American Idol. You can quit reading now.
You are safe.
Final vote in the House (Score:5, Informative)
NAY 129
The full breakdown, showing which way each representative voted, will be available at Roll No. 437 [house.gov] in roughly an hour, when the Clerk of the House posts it.
nixon is not dead (Score:5, Insightful)
he's alive and well. in spirit, at least.
didn't FISA come from nixon era wiretapping?
so all the 'progress' we made since the nixon days has been overturned.
so, would that make bush the 'new nixon'?
Should we really expect any less?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Upshot of immunity (Score:5, Interesting)
Now they can be subpoenaed as a material witness against the Executive, and they'll enjoy far less protections against their having to produce evidence. No fifth amendment protections for one, since it couldn't incriminate them.
Not that this will actually happen, but it's a nice fantasy.
Press the button labeled "Submit" (Score:5, Interesting)
My Quote Chain:
"Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word "safe" that I wasn't previously aware of."
--Arthur Dent
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
--Thomas Paine
"In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy."
--David Korten
You feel a whole lot more like you do now than you did when you used to.
Parent
"Protection of Persons Assisiting the Government" (Score:5, Informative)
Section 802(a) provides:
(4) the assistance alleged to have been provided . . . was --
(A) in connection with intelligence activity involving communications that was
(ii) designed to prevent or detect a terrorist attack, or activities in preparation of a terrorist attack, against the United States" and
(B) the subject of a written request or directive . . . indicating that the activity was
(ii) determined to be lawful.
Parent
IT'S NOT ILLEGAL (Score:5, Informative)
"If the PRESIDENT does it!" [google.com]
Parent
Re:Press the button labeled "Submit" (Score:5, Insightful)
Corrupt government officials passing legislation favoring corrupt companies is the antithesis of capitalism.
Parent
Re:Press the button labeled "Submit" (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Press the button labeled "Submit" (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot the most important quote that should be on your chain:
"Any government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you've got." - attributed to Thomas Jefferson
To translate for those hard of reason: "Any government big enough to redistribute the fruits of other people's labor to YOU by force, is big enough to take everything it wants from you, also by force. It is also big enough to run your life, and kill you or enslave you on a whim or a trumped up charge. It can also watch you and make a panopticon of your daily life. And you will like it, and clamor for it to change only enough that you won't notice the ubiquity of the abuses. Yes indeed, you will... like it." - Me
Parent
Re:Press the button labeled "Submit" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Any government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you've got." - attributed to Thomas Jefferson
Doesn't sound anything like him. Mark Twain perhaps.
Thing is, most of the "smaller government" people want government out of the places they want their private craven, corrupt, superstituous, hateful ideologies to rule instead. They consider it "judicial activism" when the courts say that government should stay out of proscriptive definitions of marriage, for example.
Parent