AP Files 7 DMCA Takedowns Against Drudge Retort 177
mytrip points out a blog posting by Rogers Cadenhead, author of the Drudge Retort blog, who says: "I'm currently engaged in a legal disagreement with the Associated Press, which claims that Drudge Retort users linking to its stories are violating its copyright and committing 'hot news' misappropriation under New York state law." An AP attorney filed six Digital Millennium Copyright Act takedown requests this week demanding the removal of blog entries and another for a user comment. The AP material they object to consists of snippets of from 33 to 79 words. Cadenhead claims his lawyer believes that all fall squarely within the province of fair use.
My first suggestion (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My first suggestion (Score:5, Funny)
AP Stylebook (Score:3, Funny)
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AP and Google in the past [silicon.com]
It seems that AP has had some experience with even large sites/companies in similar situations in the past.
Re:My first suggestion (Score:5, Informative)
very much OT (Score:2)
but for reasons that should be fairly obvious, given the rules a Slashdot, I am not able to reply without resort to AC or creating a sock, and I hate socks.
Anyway, what is you definition of a handful? On one side: one is less than a handful [senate.gov]; and on the other side: 66 is more than a handful [house.gov].
cheers
DUPE (Score:2, Informative)
Interesting quote from the AP (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, they have an interesting way of justifying things [nytimes.com]. Pay attention to those last few lines:
That's right. They're saying at least we're not as bad as the RIAA. Where's NYCL?
Re:Interesting quote from the AP (Score:5, Insightful)
An RSS feed delivers summaries of news stories. To create those stories, somebody was paid to go out (outside - you know, leave the computer and keyboard behind?) and gather news and photos. That's qualitatively different than delivering an XML feed, wouldn't you say?
The blogosphere is largely an echo chamber, with no voice (i.e. reportage) of its own. No voice, no echo, no blogosphere... get it? Original news reporting happens outside that sphere, then it gets repeated, via RSS feeds, copy-n-paste etc., within it.
Without actual news stories to quote and make fair-use copies from, bloggers would be left to writing about taking their dog to the vet, or how the baby barfed on grandma's shoes, or whatever.
I mean, look at /. - with no stories to link to, we'd all be talking about Linus's latest kernel module, now wouldn't we?
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And that would be great! That *should* be the natural progression, towards more independent media. You'd think we're there, technically, and ad-wise.
I mean, would Google or Yahoo or one of the blog ad networks be more likely, or less likely, to pull ads because you're writing a story that might piss off some advertisers? I'd think it'd be less likely, which would be the ideal outcome anyways.
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One of the problems with the AP is that their whole business model isn't so different from providing an RSS feed these days.
You hit the nail squarely on the head. This is yet another example of a pre-internet business model running aground on the new technology.
AP could do some really cool things to get a better return on their investment - but that would take creativity and effort, which is usually in short supply in an entrenched corporate bureaucracy. Much easier to release the lawyers to drive the 'competition' out of business.
We are in the midst of a sea-change. When are the suits going to get it?
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Summary says six... plus one. You may have missed the memo, but six plus one now equals seven.
ho-hum (Score:2)
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Wait for the news sites to post their news with DRM protection. A simple html tag is all that is needed. It does not need to be functional with any systems.
Then anyone copying information from the site is clearly breaking the DRM technology implemented by the page and is open to liabilities for possessing and using DRM breaking technologies.
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Wait for the news sites to post their news with DRM protection. A simple html tag is all that is needed. It does not need to be functional with any systems.
So wait... If I just put tags on my site it will make it be uncopyable? And if it isn't readable by at least IE, no one will read the posting so I guess that could mean that it is uncopyable if no one reads it to copy it... But as for it being a simple HTML tag, that is impossible, perhaps with JavaScript, PHP, or Flash it would be possible but there is nothing in HTML that would prevent me from just going to the source and copying and pasting that text either. And either way, if this gets main strea
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Well actually, that doesn't sound like a very funny joke.
And in other news.... (Score:5, Funny)
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The length of the quot e not important in absolute (Score:3, Insightful)
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A work of journalism that short just isn't going to inventive enough.
It's exposition, not poetry.
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"But your honor, I attributed the songs correctly!"
Re:The length of the quot e not important in absol (Score:5, Interesting)
"as long as drudge is providing the info where they took the quote stuff from, i don't see how AP has a case in this. They provide a link to original story on AP its not stealing if you are giving the credit to the original writer in these cases."
There's a persistent meme on Slashdot that artists should be happy that their stuff is simply being shared and listened to. If they make even a peep about trying to make a living from their craft, they're branded as greedy businesspeople, not artists.
Looks like people are starting to think the same way about journalists, too. That's sad.
If the Drudge Retort fellow thinks that there's not much value to the AP articles which he excerpts, then great -- he can stop using them, and switch to a news service which is less profit-oriented and which allows free distribution of their content (provided he can find a suitable replacement). But if he thinks that using the AP source material is a benefit to his site and to its readers, he can license it, just like real news sites do.
He seems to be playing it down the middle -- the AP content is worth reproducing on his site, but not worth paying for.
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Artists actually create. Since journalists are supposed to work with
"facts" the ability for them to "create" anything is dramatically reduced.
The shorter the work gets the harder it should be for a factual work to
contain anything unique enough worth bothering everyone else with copy-
right restrictions.
The notion that any random rambling (like this crap here) deserves
heinous copyright protection is ultimately very counterproductive.
The AP Has Retracted Its Complaint (Score:5, Informative)
But the AP still doesn't really get it (if it can get away with destroying it, where "it" is "fair use"):
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That would be fine if controversial news didn't disappear off websites.
I had several such examples on my underreported.com blog where I had to take screenshots because I knew it would soon get "disappeared" (or I just happened to still have it open in one of the 20 browser windows I had open and when s
Re:The AP Has Retracted Its Complaint (Score:5, Interesting)
If HTTP included content signing that could at least let the publisher of the link help readers clicking it to see that the target content has changed. Eventually there will probably be a "distributed archiving" system that points at URIs, "content names", rather than URLs, which point at "content location", regardless of whether the content changes.
In the meantime, "fair use" quoting isn't just fair. It's more fair than the content publishers who bait & switch when their original content brings blowback pressure they don't like. AP has to get with the 20th Century laws if it's going to survive in the 21st Century. That's why it's trying to change the laws in the 21st Century, so it can drag us back to 19th Century yellow journalism that pays, but doesn't inform.
Yellow is better (Score:5, Insightful)
The so-called "neutral point of view" came out of the Progressive Era, and like so many things of that era sold as a way to help the little guy, ended up being an instrument of The Man. Give me bias -- explicitly stated bias -- any day. It's a lot easier to understand that way.
Re:Yellow is better (Score:4, Insightful)
Then you must be using a different definition.
I don't disagree with the premise that blogs have allowed for more information (some of it even manages to be factual)
But don't forget that a wide swath of blogs are just echo chambers for misinformation.
Example: Barack Obama is a muslim [google.com]
As of this posting, about half on the front page say he is and half say he isn't
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No, that's pretty much it. The difference is the need to read blogs from opposite ends of the spectrum, rather than ju
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No, it's a good example of how yellow blog journalism fails to inform properly, but does a good job of misinforming. When half the people believe a lie, that i
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As well as the further blowing up in outlets like Fox News (and CNN, and CBS, and nearly everyone else). The people who work at those TV news orgs are among the biggest consumers of blogs, and don't just consume blogs in proportion to the blogs's general popularity. The Drudge Report has totally disproportionate influence on news producers' context, even more than its crazily large general popularit
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My post was really designed for the dimwitted reader who would repeat either "rumors". Kind of a "rumor tracer", or perhaps more like a "suckerfish".
I figured that you were savvy enough to both post sarcasm and see my own.
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> As of this posting, about half on the front page say he is and half say he isn't
You could execute every blogger on the planet and you still wouldn't get rid of this sort of thing.
This kind of shenanigan goes way back. It even goes back much further than even the "journalists" who were gunning for Clinton during his entire term.
At least with a 19th century party rag you knew where you stood. A devil you know is better than one pretending to be the archa
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It seems that AP didn't like being kicked around on the 'net.
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The Associated Press
So the AP has decided that defining "fair use" and what is copyrightable isn't a question for Congress or the courts. The AP is going to decide for itself what can be copyrighted and what can't.
If this
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And that's exactly what the AP is going to do (the rest of your paragraph was rubbish and didn't seem based on any evidence but simply your wish to paint the AP as bad as possible. Which admittedly isn't hard to do thanks to this ev
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Actually, claiming copyright on "the" isn't the most extreme. The prize has long belonged to AT&T, who back in the 1980s claimed copyright ownership of a blank line. Google for "/bin/true ATT copyright" to read about it, and see several versions of the program. I once posted this program in its entirety on a newsgroup, and publicly challenged AT&T to sue me for copyright infringement. Funny thing; I didn't hear from their lawyers. But maybe they lost track of me in their
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That would screw up searches based on those direct quotations. Example: AP article says mouthpiece spouts propaganda, someone covers that as The latest example is this from AP: mouthpiece spouts propaganda Notice how this directly conflicts with fact, fact, fact, but also directly contradicts what mouthpiece said last week and would, if true, br
I've met Jim Kennedy (Score:3, Informative)
"It is more consistent with the spirit of the Internet to link to content so people can read the whole thing in context."
Believe me, this guy doesn't know the tubey thing from a hole in the ground. To see him preach on the 'spirit of the Internet' is preposterous. He doesn't get it, his colleagues don't get it, and really, there are few left there to get it (trust me, most of the '
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Do you have any AP war stories that you can share? Specifically about AP's Internet savvy running contrary to what we know the Internet is for.
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Have any stories that show the AP brass don't know anything about "the Internet spirit" of increasing information's value by letting others share it outside of the org's control? The kind of stuff that geeks get intuitively, but suits can't see as dollar signs, so waste more money than they gain fighting the spirit?
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Doesn't matter what he thinks. (Score:2)
You can put it back up after a counterclaim is made, but I don't expect the proper counterclaim to be filed.
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It really doesn't matter.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The story as it goes is stupid. It would not happen if the Drudge Report was a high school newspaper. This is simply an attempt to quash competition using the DMCA. A government tool provided for their friends to squash anyone that might dissent. Canadians? Listen up... this kind of thing is on it's way to you.
Yes, perhaps this is not about dissent, but the unintended consequences of the law are showing through, and it clearly shows that the law is not in the best interests of the public. It is a bad law. It is being used in this case to stop the freedom of thought and speech.
Seriously, I hope that this whole mess costs them millions in the end. It is not only despicable, it is against all that is good in humanity. Sure, that sounds like a rant, but WE have to start pushing back now, not later when there is no room to do so. Please everyone stop supporting the AP in any way shape or form. They need to just go the way of buggy whip makers.
No, this is not some plea to get you to support the latest l337 cause. This is a plea to get you to support your constitutional rights. Those of you reading this that are not Americans can also help. Make this company fail. The Brits know that what America does, Britain does at twice the speed and volume (more or less) so it is not an issue for a single country. We all need to speak out about what is wrong, always, as a single voice, whether it is Darfur, London, Washington, or Lisbon etc.
Please
Re:It really doesn't matter.... (Score:4, Informative)
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With free speech, I'm able to link as I feel necessary. If I am not free to do so, it is not free speech. Sure, if I do so in a way that is libelous, then I'm guilty of t
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Libel is not plagerism and plagerism is not speech... and neither is word salad.
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That'll be the day...
~Dan
now watch some asshole mod me down to censor this post. (it'll happen)
No it's not. (Score:3, Insightful)
And even then, the evidence is only anecdotal. If 7 non-infringing items get removed from the internet and 3,000,000 infringing items get removed from the internet without anybody having to go to court, that's a system that, on the whole, works pretty well. Or if the system allows service providers to let their users post whatever content they want unfiltered and at low prices because the service providers don't have to
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"The story as it goes is stupid. It would not happen if the Drudge Report (sic) was a high school newspaper. This is simply an attempt to quash competition using the DMCA. A government tool provided for their friends to squash anyone that might dissent."
Wire services are in the business of licensing content to newspapers and news web sites. News outlets are the AP's customers, not their competition. AP's competition is other wire services.
"Seriously, I hope that this whole mess costs them millions in
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The other two are a common bit of rhetoric that Clinton has
been using for months now and a manner of address that people
have been using for Hillary for years.
This is the problem with "facts".
It's too easy to come up with something that looks like you
copied it out of an encyclopedia, even if you start with a
big pile of research materials.
Exposition? A deterministic process?
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Probably not. The usual definitions of "plagiarism" include presenting someone else's words as your own. It seems fairly clear from the descriptions that the supposed violations were presented as quotes.
Thus, my above quote is your exact words, but it isn't plagiarism. I've used one of slashdot's conventional typographical techniques to label it as a quote. I haven't named the source, because I'm trusting that
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Washington Post bans the AP (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Washington Post bans the AP (Score:5, Informative)
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It's kind of scary to think you may hold opinions and beliefs you take as truth based on such obvious misinterpretations.
that's not the WP, that's Techcrunch (Score:2)
Learn to read.
From Our Partner[techcrunch]
The Washington Post has not, would not, and never will boycott the AP.
They also wouldn't say "ban", where "boycott" is the proper word.
A way to eliminate the competition? (Score:2)
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No, they're not.
As I write this, there are no fewer than two AP stories on the washingtonpost.com homepage, and that's just the ones where the byline is displayed on the homepage rather than just on the story page itself.
Your first clue should have been that the author of the editorial you linked to was not credited as Editor-In Chief, Washington Post.
High-stakes gamble (Score:2)
They must see these points as survival matters.
AP Was Already Paid, Why Do They Care? (Score:2)
Second... For the sake of argument, let's say the first point is in fact true. The links in question
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AP's action could be as a result of either Yahoo or Fox News making a complaint to them. Neither of these organisations would have
It is not Fair Use: (Score:5, Interesting)
In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.
...
A news article in a newspaper may be copyrighted under the Act of March 4, 1909, but news, as such, is not copyrightable. P. 248 U. S. 234
As against the public, any special interest of the producer of uncopyrighted news matter is lost upon the first publication. Id.
Re:It is not Fair Use: (Score:4, Informative)
Whether quoting that much is fair use or not is going to depend on a lot more than just the words quoted themselves. Is the quoting commercial? Done for rebuttal purposes? Source-cited? How much of the total work is the quote?
These are factors that may not be easy to clearly decide except at trial.
Disclaimer: I have not seen the 7 cases cited in this story, so for all I know they could be clearly fair use, clearly not, or up for debate.
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As an aside, what damages are they going to claim when yesterdays news is worthless? News is good for 24 hours at best when it comes to commercial value really drawing the line between 'sharing' and 'infringing'... but guess that isn'd really 'relevant'
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the case pretty explicitly says that it IS protected material...
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What a smack down blunder for the AP. And it shows how truly out of control ins
I don't even have to RTFA (Score:2)
Wow... (Score:2)
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You have to love the Irony (Score:3, Insightful)
AP Contract Prohibits Fair Use Criticizing AP (Score:2)
Slashdot Files 7 DMCA Takedowns Against Slashdot (Score:2, Funny)
Re:kdawson, dupe, again. (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah because Slashdot's search function is second only to Google.
Re:I'll say it again. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Comments in a blog's discussion threads are the exact parallel. Except the comments are much closer to journalism, because they're not edited as much, so they're a closer reflection of the actual world outside an editor's head.
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So the DMCA notice is invalid.
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So the DMCA notice is invalid.
There is a difference between whether or not the ISP or Website operator is to be held Liable and whether or not they will be required to honor a take down notice.
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Re:I'll say it again. (Score:5, Funny)
Please?
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usually knows more about any given subject than any "journalist". Just
off the top of their heads they can cut through the crap and completely
refute all of the nonsense being perpetrated by some so-called journalist.
This is why blogging happens to begin with.
The views of the peanut gallery being aggregated most times isn't any
worse than the same thing being done for "journalists" (iow the AP).
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The real Drudge site links directly to stories, and doesn't keep "snippets" or other content. This guy needs to wise up.
When using only small parts of articles that is fair use [wikipedia.org] and is legal.
FalconRe:Fair? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:what is the deal with "drudge retort"? (Score:4, Informative)
Err... no. Titles are not protected by copyright. URLs are not protected by copyright. Single words are not protected by copyright.
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He can go on about parody, mashups and so on. But in the end it reminds me of Victor Lewis Smith's quip that "imitation is the sincerest form of being an unoriginal thieving bastard"
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"Just dont quote the AP"
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