NBC Activates Broadcast Flag

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "NBC activated the 'broadcast flag' on a number of shows this week, ranging from American Gladiator to Medium, which prevented compliant programs like Windows Media Center from recording them. The matter is being 'looked into,' but that doesn't tell us whether it was an accident or a ploy to see how outraged viewers would be at being stripped of the time-shifting rights they've enjoyed ever since Sony v. Universal. Just in case it's the latter, it wouldn't hurt to let them know what you think."

The epitome of unbiased summaries

The matter is being 'looked into', but that doesn't tell us whether it was an accident or a ploy to see how outraged viewers would be at being stripped of the time-shifting rights they've enjoyed ever since Sony v. Universal.

Just in case you don't know which one the submitter thinks is true, it's the latter...

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

Whether the flag was set on purpose or not, it indicates that any system paying any attention to it is broken.

Time shifting was ruled many years ago as an allowed privilege. That doesn't change when the broadcaster says they don't want it any more (remember who brought the court case to try and ban it? The broadcasters). It certainly doesn't change when your computer decides to deny you that ability.

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

Time shifting is not a right, it's a defense. It means that you cannot be found guilty of copyright infringement if you time-shift some TV shows. However, it does *NOT* mean that networks cannot implement measures, such as the Broadcast Flag, that prevent you from time-shifting. The law does not require copyright holders to allow users to exercise their fair use `privileges', it simply says that fair use is not copyright infringement.

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

That's okay.

We still have a vote.

We can vote with our dollars & stop watching NBC. Get your shows from alternate sources like DVDs. When NBC Broadcasting sees its ratings drop to 1.0% of the nation, then maybe it will wake-up (or go out of business). THE PEOPLE hold the power to kill corporations. They just need to learn to exercise that power.

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

It's almost like they want me to go to The Pirate Bay and get my media fix. Seeing how this is the simplest and least annoying way of enjoying my favorite shows.

.haeger

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

The broadcasters didn't sue Sony in the Betamax case; the studios did. (The original suit is Universal, et. al. v Sony.) It was their product that was allegedly being infringed by taping. The broadcasters either didn't care, or quietly supported taping since it would ultimately expand their audience reach.

Of course, today NBC and Universal are both owned by General Electric [ge.com], so their interests are now aligned in a way that was legally impossible in 1976. Now that we've abolished the "financial interest [museum.tv]" rules, the sharp divisions between content and conduit in US television have dissolved.

How do someone a get a "+4, Informative" when the information being presented is wrong?

Re:The epitome of unbiased summaries

hey!

Good thing I use Super VHS VCRs for my recording. Good old analog technology... it just works & says "bah" to digital no-record flags. (Ditto my analog cassettes ignoring digital radio's no-record flags.) I can record whatever I want off NBC or XM or HD Radio.

It's gotta suck though for digital users. You want to tape a show in the middle of the day (say, Oprah) or night (Letterman), but you can't because of that stupid flag. Therefore that show loses time-shifting viewers. NBC == "Stupido" (to borrow from NBC's cousin Telemundo).

From the site:

"It seems the flag only triggered copy protection measures in Vista, as one of our staffers with a DirecTV HD DVR recorded Gladiators as usual, and a TiVo spokesperson told CNet that the company had not received any complaints."

Well well, another reason NOT to use Vista MCE. If you simply ignore a broadcast flag this only annoys people who pay for commercial software. I, on the other hand, couldbuild a MythTV box without any problems whatsoever :)

Re:From the site:

It does seem ridiculous when any form of security is built around proprietary software telling you what you can and can't do.

If timeshifting is a court-granted right, then a broadcaster saying you can't do it and a recording system believing them should be plenty of evidence that it's time to change to a system you control.

There have been many cases of this recently, but essentially it's the Alice/Bob/Charlie situation - Alice wants to send Bob some data, without Charlie getting it. The problem with ANY form of DRM is that Bob and Charlie are the same person.

If Vista refuses to record it cos it's told not to by the broadcaster ("Oh, uh, I'm Bob, right? I can watch this! No, hold on, who am I? Charlie? They say I'm Charlie, so I must be! I'm not letting you see it!"), then from the user's perspective it's broken.

Re:From the site:

"If timeshifting is a court-granted right, then a broadcaster saying you can't do it and a recording system believing them should be plenty of evidence that it's time to change to a system you control."

Then it's a good thing for broadcasters that time shifting is not a "court-granted right." For that, you'd have to assume A implies B is equivalent to B implies A. The specific case of record television shows to watch later does not violate copyright laws. That does not mean that broadcasters have to make the recording of television shows easy or even possible. Timeshifting is merely a legally valid excuse for what would normally be considered copyright infringement. The court has granted you no rights forcing timeshifting to be made available.

Re:From the site:

If timeshifting is a court-granted right, then a broadcaster saying you can't do it and a recording system believing them should be plenty of evidence that it's time to change to a system you control.

US Courts don't grant rights. They only affirm that we do or do not have a right.

The Constitution was written with "implicit allow" rules for citizens and "implicit deny" for government.

Over the years people have lost sight of this fact and that has been seized upon those in a position of power. The average citizen now believes if a right isn't listed in the Constitution, they don't have it aka "implicit deny". Even worst they think the government has an "implicit allow" aka they are without bounds.

Re:From the site:

Yup and it did not affect Windows XP running Mediaportal (something far better than MCE), GBPVR, or Mythtv.

I asked 6 friends that did have those Media Centers and all of them were able to record it just fine.

Sounds like it only affects the DRM special from microsoft.

Only Vista DRM has a problem

Not the XP drivers or TiVo. Microsoft should be answering this.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/45/262419/ShowThread.aspx [thegreenbutton.com]

Re:Only Vista DRM has a problem

It appears that Vista has DRM functioning properly. Stopping you from recording something when the program is flagged is exactly the feature you have bought.
Furthermore, if you can record a flagged broadcast with XP or TiVo you should probably file a complaint that this software is circumventing the DRM and failing to manage your digital rights properly.

Ironic timing

Furthermore, if you can record a flagged broadcast with XP or TiVo you should probably file a complaint that this software is circumventing the DRM and failing to manage your digital rights properly.

Priceless. :-)

Ironically, here in the UK, the front of today's Guardian Technology section has a full-page story on how pretty much anyone who is anyone is dropping DRM as fast as they can open their fingers. Among other things, it cites research showing that shows DRM has no impact on piracy levels (and makes the obvious but rarely stated observation that this means DRM is just annoying legitimate customers), and mentions several major on-line music distributors who are already offering DRM-free tracks or have definite plans to do so later this year. Apparently the market has a different view on how it would like its digital rights managed than Microsoft do...

Mr. Rogers is crying.

Fred Rogers would shake his head and shed a tear. (from wikipedia) During the controversy surrounding the introduction of the household VCR, Rogers was involved in supporting the manufacturers of VCRs in court. His 1979 testimony in the case Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. noted that he did not object to home recording of his television programs, for instance, by families in order to watch together at a later time. This testimony contrasted with the views of others in the television industry who objected to home recording or believed that devices to facilitate it should be taxed or regulated.

Don't complain to NBC.

Tell the advertisers for those program that you're really currious about their support NBC in using the broadcast flag. Not only did you get the opportunity to miss that program, but you didn't get to see any of the ads for their company promoting their products, sales, events, or anything else they were interested in letting you know about.

Believe me, word will get back to NBC that it's not to their advantage to follow such tactics.

I want a quality flag

Instead of a broadcast flag , I want a quality flag .. one that stops shows like American Gladiator from even being broadcast.

Same in Germany

The same thing happened in Germany last week. Pro7Sat1 did send an anti recording signal and many users of DVR could not see a thing.

According to company [dwdl.de] which runs the satellite signal, it was just an technical error.

Submarine restrictions: how can they be stopped?

This brings up what I think is the biggest potential for unfair use of DRM: restrictions that are built into the technology and acknowledged by fine print in the user agreement, but not enforced until after millions of consumers have already purchased the product.

There's nothing new about this. You can waste an awful lot of time reading contracts and discovering that you've agreed to obnoxious things... and that there's not an awful lot you can do about it because all the competitors have similar contracts... and that, surprise, surprise, the employee behind the car rental counter is not interested in striking out clauses and negotiating contracts with an individual customer with a line behind him.

What's new is the potential for cheap, automatic, mechanical enforcement at some later date.... and the consumer's inability to know the company's real intentions.

When you buy something with unenforced DRM you are truly buying a pig in a poke.

The free market can't operate in the absence of the buyer having reasonable information on what they're buying. In the case of unenforced DRM, that means not just the theoretical existence of restrictions, it means that companies should be required to disclose a policy on their intentions for future enforcement... a policy that must be included in the contract for the contract to be valid, and one which they can be held to in the future.

It should be use-it-or-lose-it. A company that fails to use automated restrictions for a long period of time, and has failed to disclose clearly its intention of using them in the future, ought to right to enforce them.

Re:Benefit of a doubt?

Nobody can be fired for patriotically pressing a button that they thought would fly an American flag!! If your average person saw a big button marked 'Broadcast Flag', what would they think? :)

Re:Easy fix

Even better, how many people who were out of the house for American Gladiator are about to be introduced to the world of piracy and bit torrent because of the broadcast flag?

Re:NBC?

could someone remind me again what this "NBC" thing is, and why I should care?

      It's this place where people watch programs interrupted by commercials at the time least convenient to them, and have to wait a whole week between episodes; instead of downloading them one season at a time and watching them whenever you want...

Re:NBC?

It's this place where people watch commercials interrupted by programs at the time least convenient to them, and have to wait a whole week between episodes; instead of downloading them one season at a time and watching them whenever you want...

There .. fixed it for you.

It amazes me that people think that shows are the reason for the existence of TV stations, when really the whole broadcast system depends on hooking in enough people in order to get them to watch the commercials.

Re:These things are rarely accidental

Perhaps they're testing to generate articles like this. Then they get a nice shopping list of products that don't enforce the flag. They know they have to address each of them before setting the flag on everything, all the time. That way people have no escape. So be vocal, the content distributors need this information so they can lock up their content.

I guess it depends on whether you're a cynic like me, or an optimist that thinks corporations really care.