GPL vs. Skype Back In Court

mollyhackit writes "Hackaday reports that the GPL vs Skype case is going back to court today. This as an appeal to the court's decision Slashdot reported last July. The original case was brought against Skype for the Linux based SMC Skype WiFi phone. The court upheld the GPLv2 and decided that Skype had not gone far enough in meeting section 3 which details how to provide the original source. This time around Skype is apparently trying to argue that the GPL violates anti-trust regulations."

Violates Anti-Trust??

Perhaps if they code something off their own back then rather than leech off the work of others, there would be no problem. Honestly, the nerve!

Re:Violates Anti-Trust??

How exactly is the GPL violating Anti-Trust laws? Doesn't the GPL do the exact *opposite*? The whole point of open source is to allow others to have access to the same code, thereby leveling the playing field...I guess in a way.

Re:Violates Anti-Trust??

Doesn't the GPL do the exact *opposite*? The whole point of open source is to allow others to have access to the same code, thereby leveling the playing field...I guess in a way.

Yes, it is exactly the as you say. In fact, the power of the GPL is that its strength stems from copyright law. If the GPL is deemed in violation of anti-trust, it means copyright law is in violation of anti-trust. Needless to say, it is not very likely they have a sound argument here.

Re:Violates Anti-Trust??

>How exactly is the GPL violating Anti-Trust laws?

It is not.

>Doesn't the GPL do the exact *opposite*?

No. The "opposite" of violating the law is "compliance" and the GPL cannot "comply" with Anti-Trust laws.
A creator of content has certain rights, that are reserved by default, purely on the basis of him having created that work. There are ways to assert those rights, such as giving notice (e.g., "registrations"), but these do not confer any "improved rights", they merely help with evidence when those rights need to be defended.

But the GPL is a license, a grant of certain authority that the licensee would not have without the license.
If you wanted to accused the grantor of a GPL-style license of breaking some law, you would first need to show that the grantor did not have the right to use the license, which in the case of the GPL, would mean somehow depriving the grantor of his rights that he has under copyright law. What you suggest doing would be unprecedented in the US.

Re:Violates Anti-Trust??

Well, that's the core take-away from this story. We don't yet know how the case will play out, and I certainly don't claim to understand their theory on the anti-trust angle well enough to speculate. But either way, this speaks to the ethical stance of a company.

A company that takes what it needs/wants, knowing what is expected in return; doesn't give what is expected; is caught and convicted; and then challenges the validity of the agreement under which they were allowed to take what they want, with the implied conclusion that they should be allowed to take what they want anyway while giving nothing back.

Bunch of children.

Re:Violates Anti-Trust??

EULA's impose extra restrictions on top of what copyright gives (cannot reverse engenier, etc); while the GPL gives extra rights over what copyright gives (can run, copy, etc as often as you want). If you claim not to have read the GPL license, you would have been bound to normal copy right law, and not have been allowed to distribute the program at all.

Simple Solution

This time around Skype is apparently trying to argue that the GPL violates anti-trust regulations.

If you don't like GPL terms, don't use GPL software. How much simpler can it be?

Re:Simple Solution

Don't you see? The source code is right there in the open! It's free! Why are you guys getting so worked up about something that you don't care about enough to protect? The nerve of you hippies; go smoke your pot while us real people turn your code into something useful, something that will revolutionize the world and move us closer to utopia, things like recording television and making phone calls on the internet.

Re:Simple Solution

Try telling that to an overpaid manager that's thinking "hmm, we could spend maybe a few thousand hiring software developers to code up this thing we need, or we could save all that money by stealing this free thing. Worst case scenario is we'll need a couple of lawyers to get us out of that pesky GPL thing"

Re:Simple Solution

Or you could use that free thing, add value to it and post the source code like you are supposed to. Then you save money and help out the public good all at the same time. That is how GPL is supposed to work.

Re:Simple Solution

But there is a lot of profit in saving money. That's the point. In Business you make money by doing two things... raking in revenue and controlling costs. It would have been a lot less expensive for Skype to have just played by the rules.

Re:Simple Solution

Hmm you could always go the apple route and just take BSD code that has a license that makes the software free to abuse as much as you like.

It doesn't take a brain to see the differences. If you wanted it closed use a close source license to begin with.

Anti-trust theory already tried, and failed

The anti-trust theory was already tried in Wallace vs. International Business Machines et al. [wikipedia.org]. OK, Wallace represented himself, and wasn't a lawyer. But it's not going to fly. Why is eBay asleep at the switch while some rogue laywer at Skype pulls this? They have nothing to lose from releasing the kernel, and both reputation and money to lose while they balk.

Bruce

Re:Anti-trust theory already tried, and failed

"Why is eBay asleep at the switch while some rogue laywer at Skype pulls this? They have nothing to lose from releasing the kernel, and both reputation and money to lose while they balk."

For the same reason they are suing Craigslist for stock dilution. I'm not saying I know what it is, but they are both lawsuits with shaky legal ground and huge damages to reputation, so I figured the same genius is behind both.

Re:Anti-trust theory already tried, and failed

GPL vs Skype is being held in Munich, not in the US. And the GPL has been successfully tested [news.com] at least once in Germany.

Re:Anti-trust theory already tried, and failed

Actually in germany it's worse. the GPL has not only been upheld it was upheld against SCO's random claims years before a US judge even opened their mouths on the subject.

Not only will this not fly it is going to get flung back at those lawyers. most likely painfully.

If it wasn't so dumb...

shooting down the GPL - you can bet there is more behind that push than just "somebody" at Skype

Well, if they tried to do it in a smart way. This is about the most stooooopid way possible. First, they use a legal theory that only a fool would pursue and that is, indeed, known for having been pursued foolishly only to be dismissed with a very clear finding by the judge in a U.S. court. Then, they pursue this case when complying with the terms of the GPL would cost them nothing, which is the mark of a lawyer who isn't considering his client's best interest. There is nothing special about Skype that belongs in the Linux kernel. Their proprietary software is safe in user-mode, where this case won't touch it. The only things that would need releasing is the customization for that particular embedded phone device, which is not terribly different from the wealth of customization for similar devices already in the public.

In other words, complying with the terms of the GPL would cost Skype less than pursuing this case.

They're stupid, or crazy. If eBay can't rein them in, what about eBay stockholders?

Bruce

Re:If it wasn't so dumb...

Then, they pursue this case when complying with the terms of the GPL would cost them nothing, which is the mark of a lawyer who isn't considering his client's best interest.

An alternative explanation, which is fresh in my mind from the recent Reiser judgment, is a client who refuses to listen to the lawyer's advice as to what is in their best interest. At the end of the day, the client is the one who is in charge. In particular a corporate lawyer is going to take the legal strategy they are told to take.

Re:even if Skype wins this one...

This is a common myth and it's false. If the GPL was invalidated all the code would be owned by it's authors and thier would be no legal way for anyone to use the code without the authors permission. The only time something becomes public domain is after a very long time or if the Author intentionally and legally releases it.

Shooting itself in the foot

IANAL, but it seems like their's only two coices 1) The GPL is valid and they need to comply 2) The GPL is invalid and they arein violation of copyright. Aren't they shooting themselves in the foot arguing that it's invalid?

Re:Shooting itself in the foot

Option 3 - the clause that requires them to release code is invalid/only applies to the unmodified version of the code. Option 4 - Chewbacca is a Wookie and therefore the copyright belongs to Skype. Both of these are unlikely but there's not a dichotomy here.

Maybe

Maybe it's time I shitcanned my Skype account.

SIP is the *open* and *free* alternative

You don't know the alternative and call yourself a geek? Or, maybe an AC is no a geek!

The alternative is to use SIP phones. And then if you don't like one provider, you get another. For example,

    http://les.net/ [les.net]

is one provider I've had experience with. But you can get lots more if you want,
    http://www.sipcenter.com/sip.nsf/html/Service+Providers [sipcenter.com]

With SIP you can use ANY provider and not waste money on substandard service. Heck, with SIP *you* can be your own provider with Asterisk PBX software.

There is probably more real phones available for SIP than the proprietary protocols like Skype,

http://www.grandstream.com/products.html [grandstream.com]

Very good phones from my own experience. Skype has been an obsolete VoIP solution for years now. Anyone seriously looking for a flexible VoIP solution, will only look at SIP.

appeal withdrawn by skype

according to this site (in German) the appeal has been withdrawn and skype has retreated with its tail between its legs.

http://www.linux-magazin.de/news/ [linux-magazin.de]

It seems - as usual - lawyers think they can beat down the "amateur made" gpl ... until they take a few minutes to understand it.

Re:I fought the license....

I usually prefer the Dead Kennedys version of that song to The Crickets version, but not in this case. YAY GPL!

Drinkin' beer in the hot sun, I fought the law and I won
I needed sex and I got mine, I fought the law and I won
The law don't mean shit if you've got the right friends
That's how the country's run
Twinkies are the best friend I've ever had
I fought the law And I won
I blew George & Harvey's brains out with my six-gun
I fought the law and I won
Gonna write my book and make a million
I fought the law and I won
I'm the new folk hero of the Ku Klux Klan
My cop friends think that's fine
You can get away with murder if you've got a badge
I fought the law And I won I am the law So I won