German Police Raid 51 CeBIT Stands Over Patent Claims

LeCaddie writes "Last week German investigators raided 51 exhibitor stands at CeBIT, the German information technology fair in Hanover, looking for goods suspected of infringing patents. Some 183 police, customs officers, and prosecutors raided the fair on Wednesday and carried off 68 boxes of electronic goods and documents including cellphones, navigation devices, digital picture frames, and flat-screen monitors. Of the 51 companies raided, 24 were Chinese. Most of the patents concerned were related to devices with MP3, MP4, and DVB standard functions for digital audio and video, blank CDs, and DVD copiers, police said." In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted, especially in the absence of a court ruling of infringement.

HA-HA

[megaditto]

Guess that's the last time there'll be another IT fair in Germany.

Re:HA-HA

[arivanov]

This is an annual event. Same as CeBIT itself. It is not the fist time, it is not the last time. And frankly as far as some manufacturers are concerned infringing until you get nailed is the way to do business so I do not quite see what does this change. So I will disagree. There WILL be another IT fair in Germany and there will be another bust there.

Re:

[XenonChloride]

Actually, i expect another raid during the IFA (consumer electronics show) in Berlin, end of august. And again, Roberto Dini of Sisvel will deny any responsibility.

Re:HA-HA... well... This could get scary if the US

[davidsyes]

somehow combines that activity with Patriot Act and border protection. Just a ruse is all takes to grab business intel on competition, or to deter some companies from advertising if their whole booth can be carted up and taken off. And, who'd be able to prove the "uniformed cops" were not imposters to screw over a company. Nahh, things like that just don't happen -- yet.

Advertising?

[TheLink]

I think many people don't really regard infringing on an mp3 patent as something morally wrong.

So just pay to display your products at a booth, get raided, hope you get some _extra_ publicity, $$$.

Re:HA-HA

[Florian Weimer]

Guess that's the last time there'll be another IT fair in Germany.

It's been this way for years, it's kind of a ritual. Somehow I doubt it's contributed significantly to Cebit's decline.

Re:HA-HA

[eggnoglatte]

I read another report that said it was about product piracy (fake iPhones etc.). I find that version easier to believe, since AFAIK patents are a purely civil matter across Europe. And you can bet your ass that if it was piracy-related, the same could happen in the US as well. Here in Canada/Vancouver, we had similar raids last summer on some open air markets where police were cracking down on vendors selling fake Prada purses and the like.

Re:HA-HA

[Xelios]

Yeah, from what I can gather from the various online German news outlets reporting on this the target of the raid was counterfit products, not patent violations. Booths belonging to Chinese companies were selling blatant iPhone ripoffs, like Meizu Technology's "MiniOne" [vvallo.com], and the police shut them down.

MiniOne

[nurb432]

Hmm only $195 for a 4gb version? Where do i buy one? I could care less about any 'infringing' as i don't believe in IP rights.

Re:MiniOne

[fastest fascist]

'course, you can probably also forget about things like warranties or safety testing.

Re:

[nurb432]

In this day and age of shoddy products from most every manufacturer/importer, tell me why i should care?

Re:MiniOne

[onefriedrice]

You're ignorant (no offense) if you think the quality of Chinese rip-offs comes close to the real products. I've spent the last two years in Asia, in a country where such fake products are plentiful. I bought a "Sony" discman for part of my stay there. It wasn't so bad since I could just take it to some local, hole-in-the-wall electronics shack and they could fix whatever electronic components had failed while I waited (which occurred fairly regularly), but there is no way any product like that would be put-up with by most Americans, with or without access to a cheap electronic repair outlet. I won't argue with you whether or not real, brand-name electronics have been reduced in quality over the past years (I think they have), but in no way do they approach the shoddy quality (both interior and exterior) of the fake stuff, believe me.

Re:MiniOne

[ColdWetDog]

In this day and age of shoddy products from most every manufacturer/importer, tell me why i should care?

Let's see:

Cheapo knockoff iPhone sits in your pants pocket, several inches away from your testicles.

Cheapo knockoff iPhone has embedded in it a cheapo knockoff Sony Lithium battery that is even more likely to overheat than the real one.

Cheapo knockoff iPhone has cheapo knockoff current limiters on the battery and cheapo knockoff components in the battery supervisor circuit.

Next step left as exercise for the student.

Re:

[digitig]

Next step left as exercise for the student.

Profit? Doesn't sound right.

Re:

[bursch-X]

I see it as part of the big plan of China taking over the world.

Just have millions of iPhone knock-offs explode in the pants of (male and geeky) Longnoses and they'll all be impotent. In another 20 years, China will make 50% of the population or so... They just forget that geeks never get laid anyway.

Re:

[socz]

We can argue the same things for sony vaio's!

Let's see:

Expensive sony vaio sits on your pants (lap), several inches away from your testicles.

Expensive sony vaio has in it an expensive certified Sony rechargeable battery that is even more likely to overheat than an aftermarket one.

Expensive sony vaio has cheapo cooling heatsink and causes overheating issues including notebook shutdowns and has spawned many "freeze" sites to document problems.

Expensive sony vaio has customer service, but it is so bad it's better not to use them. Actually more expensive to use them than to just ignore the problem or replace device with another brand.

Next step left as exercise for the student.

I mean honestly, spending a few grand on a vaio i thought i was getting a quality product. Everyone said they were second to IBM (at the time) think pads. I had already learned my lessons through the years with all the junk they make (walk mans, cd mans, car cd mans, head units for cars, home stereos, tv's, radios etc etc) that has broken down on me. But i trusted everyones advice and ended up getting burned in the end.

So whats worse? buying a product y

Re:

[mobby_6kl]

> Next step left as exercise for the student.

Cheap knockoff fire (not of that kind) in your pants. Obviously, this would never happen with an official 100% Apple certified iProduct, no fucking way. [engadget.com]

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Booths belonging to Chinese companies were selling blatant iPhone ripoffs, like Meizu Technology's "MiniOne", and the police shut them down.

Well, at least in the case of Meizu, the reason was apparently not the iPhone ripoff.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/05/meizus-cebit-booth-shut-down-over-mp3-licensing-issues-not-the/ [engadget.com]

Re:HA-HA

[Belial6]

An item is only a 'counterfeit' if it tries to pass itself off as the original. So, if the MiniOne does not have the iPhone name or logo on it, it is not counterfeit. So, I have to ask anyone who has seen this product... Does it say iPhone, or have an Apple logo on it?

Re:

[1u3hr]

Does it say iPhone, or have an Apple logo on it?

It runs Windows Mobile, it's a look-alike, not a counterfeit.

It's about MP3 patents, not Apple.

http://www.meizume.com/ [meizume.com] : "According to forum posts by Meizu CEO Jack Wong, the raid was initiated by Sisvel due to the lack of a Sisvel (patent holder of MP3 format) license."

Re:

[cyfer2000]

My German news [heise.de] said it was not because of the miniOne.

"Later today, a representative of Meizu told German press agency dpa that the police had not come by because of the mobile phone, but another of the company's products, a portable MP3 player. There had been "discussions" regarding licenses, she was quoted as saying. According to dpa, Meizu staff opened the stand again and again displayed the smartphone late this afternoon, with the MP3 player missing from display."

Not counterfeit

[nephridium]

According to one of Germany's reputable news sources Spiegel Online [spiegel.de] (in German) early reports suspected counterfeit claims by companies such as Apple, but it has since become clear that the Italian company Sisvel has filed suit over MP3 patent infringements and thereby caused the raid of stands offering mp3/4 players et al.

There have since been further confiscations of GPS/navigation systems too.

Re:

[PFAK]

How can you even compare CeBIT and Richmond Night Market, they are completely different kind of things!

CeBIT is a computer fair to show off new products etc, while Richmond Night Market is primarily for selling knock off goods ..

Software patents?

[Daniel Phillips]

Most of the patents concerned were related to devices with MP3, MP4, and DVB standard functions for digital audio and video, blank CDs, and DVD copiers

I thought software patents were illegal in Europe

Re:Software patents?

[Colin Smith]

I thought software patents were illegal in Europe

Europe isn't a country...

 

Re:

[thatskinnyguy]

Considering the EU has a Constitution, free travel from member state to member state, free trade within I would say it could be considered a country.

Re:

[Colin Smith]

Europe isn't a country...

Re:Software patents?

[rucs_hack]

Europe isn't a country...

Indeed, its more a sort of political soufflé

It's getting pretty close though...

[raehl]

Pretty much a federal government, unified basic rights, open borders, (mostly) unified currency...

The one big thing it doesn't have yet is a military.

Re:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

The one big thing it doesn't have yet is a military.

A possible use for NATO in the post cold-war era???

Re:

[Nazlfrag]

You mean that pact between the USA, Canada and most of Europe? I really don't see your point - NATO is not a coherent unified military force, it is a treaty.

Re:

[abigor]

Or a constitution. And countries are free to opt out (see Norway).

Re:

[Buran]

I think I hear an echo in here.

Re:

[Jugalator]

Considering the EU has a Constitution

And so have the countries that make up it.

Different ones at that.

In short, I think you're oversimplifying things a bit. ;-)

Re:

[LordKazan]

each individual state in the US has a constitution

not saying that his statement wasn't lazy.. but at least don't stupid

Re:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Hate to break it to you but...

Each state of the United States has its own constitution. Different ones at that. So what was your point?

Re:

[Sique]

The EU doesn't have a constitution. The attempt to give the EU a constitution was derailed when the people of France and the Netherlands didn't agree to the proposed constitution.
Now there is a newly formulated EU base contract all the rage, but this one is not even through the parliaments of the member states yet.

Re:Software patents?

[IANAAC]

You still need a passport for traveling between (european) countries... We're not there yet...

And here in the US we're on our way to needing passports to travel from state to state :-)

I kid, but only a little.

Re:Software patents?

[GiMP]

The United States is a collection of independent "states" with their own independent constitutions, law making bodies, courts, etc... they are then united with other "states" under a unifying constitution which provides for its own organized law-making body, courts, etc...

Now... compare this to EU "countries" which have their own independent constitutions, law making bodies, courts etc... and then are united with other "countries" under a unifying constitution which provides for its own organized law-making body, courts, etc...

Playing my own devil's advocate... Even individuals states in the USA can have their own armies, called "State Defense Forces". Although only half (25) of the states have such an army, they do exist, and all state legislatures have authorized the creation and maintenance of such forces. A final argument might be that unlike EU countries, individual states in the USA do not partake in foreign affairs and do not have foreign delegates. This might be true to an extent, but border-states, such as California and Texas, certainly must deal with some level of foreign affairs.

Hmm... yeah, the EU and the USA are really different. If the USA is a country, than the EU is a country. If Germany is a country, than Pennsylvania is too. I think this is a matter of pride and perception than it is about terminology, or even reality. Finally, a distinction should be drawn against the EU and "Europe", such as there is a distinction between the USA and "North America". One is a country, the other is a continent.

Re:

[Nullav]

Even individuals states in the USA can have their own armies, called "State Defense Forces". Although only half (25) of the states have such an army, they do exist, and all state legislatures have authorized the creation and maintenance of such forces.

No point in going that far, it's not like all the military bases are in DC. By the time people get pissed enough to split off, I doubt the people stationed in (and possibly from) $STATE will be all that thrilled, either.

Re:

[lordholm]

"Finally, a distinction should be drawn against the EU and "Europe", such as there is a distinction between the USA and "North America". One is a country, the other is a continent."

Indeed, but America commonly means the USA and not the two continents. I often consider that Norway is in Northern Europe, but not in Europe, and let's face it. The distinction between saying EU and Europe is really thin these days.

Re:

[quanticle]

Be that as it may, individual states in the US do not have the right to break away. EU member states have that right. Therefore, the EU isn't a country (yet). Rather, it is a very close confederation of countries.

Re:

[GiMP]

Of course individual states in the US can break away, it is called secession, and it has happened. The last time it happened, a civil war was declared, but it happened. However, secession is often followed by war, such as when Texas broke away from Mexico and became a US state, prompting Mexican invasion in 1846 and the start of the Mexican American War.

Oh.. and just so that there isn't any confusion, just last month, The State of Montana threatened to secede from the United States over gun rights.

Re:

[quanticle]

Pointing to the Confederacy and saying that individual states are welcome to break away is like pointing to an apprehended criminal and saying that we are free to commit crime. If states in the US break away, the US government is willing to go to war to bring them back. Contrast this with the EU, where the right to secede is enshrined in the founding charter.

Re:

[LeftOfCentre]

This is not correct. The right to secede was never formally recognized except in the proposed EU constitution a few years back, which was rejected (and is being replaced with an additional treaty that may or may not be ratified).

Re:Software patents?

[mrvan]

The situation is complex. Traditional definitions of country include issuing money and sovereignty (ie no other states have power over what happens in your territory); many EU countries do not have their own currency (and hence monetary politics) and although sovereign countries can 'give away' part of their sovereignty in treaties while still remaining a sovereign country you can make a convincing case that current European decision making *and* judiciary is going beyond that.

On the other hand: there is no european army or police force; the Iraq war showed convincingly that there is no European foreign policy; european 'law' only becomes law by national legislatures passing national laws that implement European directives; there is *no* european constitution since some members decided not to ratify it (but there are tons of treaties that could be interpreted as forming the constitution); there is no sensible European Parliament; the european equivalent of the 'bill of rights' is the European Convention on Human Rights which is the Council of Europe rather than the EU, which includes Russia and Switserland. Very importantly, EU citizens in the great majority consider themselves national citizens first, and europeans second (or third, after region/city), and the elections that count are national elections, which are generally about national issues.

"Country" is a useful abstraction that has high explanatory power, but it is ultimately a projection of a complicated continuum on a dichotomous variable. Entities like Pennsylvania, Scotland, Liechtenstein, the EU, Kosovo, Taiwan, Hongkong, etc. show that the discussion is a lot more complicated than that.

IMHO, the really interesting question is not whether the EU is a country or not, it is whether we want to delegate more power to
'Brussels' and how we can control such power. The colonies that became the USA went through the same process more than two hundred years ago, and they had an external threat to convince people that a confederation was not enough. Also, the US shows that even a constitution framed by very intelligent people who did their utmost to limit the power of the federal government to an enumerated set can gradually become a much more centralized state without changing its constitution, so without giving the member states and direct say in the matter. This makes me (as an EU citizen) wary of the EU becoming a confederacy or even federal state, as I would be afraid that it will gradually shift to a more centralized state.

Anyway... :-)

Re:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Finally, a distinction should be drawn against the EU and "Europe", such as there is a distinction between the USA and "North America". One is a country, the other is a continent.

Maybe "Europe" is to EU as "America" is to USA?

As in "Europe" is short for "European Union" (despite the continent of the same name), and "America" is short for "United States of America" (Despite the two continents of the same name (or one if your Latin American educated)).

Re:

[CheeseTroll]

In the USA, the Federal constitution always trumps the states' laws/constitution. Is that true of the EU, as well? I always thought compliance by individual countries (you know what I mean) was more voluntary.

Re:

[GiMP]

The EU can enforce compliance and override member's laws. According to Wikipedia...

EU law has direct effect within the legal systems of its Member States, and overrides national law in many areas, especially in terms of economic and social policy.

As for the discussion on "if it is a country", Wikipedia continues,

The EU is not a federal government, nor is it an intergovernmental organization. It constitutes a new legal order in international law for the mutual social and economic benefit of the Member State

Re:

[IANAAC]

Second: EU is not 56 years old. It's only something like 15 years old. There was pan-european co-operation institutions before 1993 but with the EU things got a bit more "deep" compared to it's preceeders EC and EEC.

Don't be so pedantic. The first European Parliament elections were held in 1979. A bit more than 15 years ago.

Hu ?

[aepervius]

US = 1 language, 1 history (more or less), 1 government which dictated the dance up to the point that some states smacked other states (US CIVIL war). It was called Civil war for a good reason. 1 president/head of the USA.

EU= 12 (more than that but bear with me) states, 12 languages, 12 histories (not really, but most people consider the history of THEIR countries before the one of Europe), 12 currencies, 12 head of states which went on war with each others. And no they were not called civil war. EU got

Re:

[n6kuy]

I've already got my New Mexico Passport [newmexicopassport.com]!

Re:

[dasunt]

Capt. Vasili Borodin:And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.

Re:

[dave1791]

If you travel between non-Schengen countries, then yes. Otherwise, the only indicator that you crossed a border may be a change in the language of the road signs, or at most a "welcome" sign like you see when crossing between US states or between Canadian provinces.

Re:

[eggnoglatte]

Huh? You can drive around (or hike, take the bus/train) within the Schengen region without showing ANY kindy of ID. For air travel you need either a passport or a national ID card, but that is even true for flights within one country.

Re:

[lordholm]

No you do not. Continental Europe is virtually passport free. Some states requires that you carry a national id card though (but I have never in my life been asked for one by any government official), and there are no check on the borders. This also include the newer EU members (except Bulgaria and Romania), since January this year.

Re:

[Achromatic1978]

Very true. To the extent that it actually backfired on me. Picture this:

Travelling on an Australian passport, I boarded a flight from NY to Paris. For whatever reason, they did not take my I-84 out of my passport. Land in Paris, no passport stamp. Travel to Barcelona, no passport stamp. Travel back to Paris, no passport stamp. Board plane to St Louis.

So far, so good. Then Immigration looks at my passport, and asks me to step to the side, and if I could please explain to them why my passport shows no sign

Re:

[Paul Jakma]

This is not true. There are no border controls at all between Schengen agreement [wikipedia.org] countries (e.g. when commuting in the Netherlands you can literally go through Germany for a shortcut, no passport required - you won't notice a border even). Not all EU countries are in the Schengen agreement (e.g. UK by choice, Ireland by dint of wanting to maintain its open border with the UK). EU citizens still need to show a passport, national ID card or (I /think/ this is acceptable) EU driving licence to travel between E

Re:

[netsharc]

And.. not all Schengen countries are in the EU! Heehee!

E.g. Norway, which opened up its border because it already had a border-treaty with the other Nordic countries, but didn't want to be in the EU because it wanted to keep its oil money to itself.

No you don't need to show your passport.

[HuskyDog]

Under the terms of the Schengen Agreement [wikipedia.org] there are no longer any border controls between the vast majority of European countries. It is possible to drive all the way from Estonia to Portugal without needing to show your passport once.

Of course things are not quite as open as they may be in the USA. Firstly, not all countries are covered (notably missing are the UK and Ireland). Secondly, some countries require citizens to carry ID cards and visitors to carry passports, but the agreement means that you

Re:

[LeftOfCentre]

Incorrect. Most EU member states are part of the Schengen agreement, which allows for passport-free travel. You do however have to be prepared to prove your European citizenship in some situations (e.g. checking into hotels), which you can do with the European identity card issued by many (all?) EU member states these days. I haven't ever brought a passport with me to another EU country except the UK (not part of Schengen).

Re:

[LingNoi]

free travel: not to all countries in the EU (UK and Ireland are excluded),

That's because they're islands moron you got to pay for the ferry or underground train to get to france.. ugh..

Re:

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

What does that have to do with anything? If something can be illegal, then it can be illegal in a country, in a continent, on a plane, in a box, under a table, while in a moving vehicle or while eating ham sandwiches, unless something specific about the law rules that particular situation out.

Re:

[Florian Weimer]

Most of the patents concerned were related to devices with MP3, MP4, and DVB standard functions for digital audio and video, blank CDs, and DVD copiers

I thought software patents were illegal in Europe

This is mainly about actual devices, not about mere software. MP3 is kind of interesting because a second essential[*] patent pool has established itself, completely separate from the Fraunhofer/Thomson pool that everybody has licensed.

[*] Essential for portable MP3 players and similar devices.

Re:

[Daniel Phillips]

This is mainly about actual devices, not about mere software.

Nonsense. MP3 is a data design and an algorithm.

Re:

[leonmergen]

You mean like cd's and tv, where data arrives in a stream and needs to be decoded into actual sound/images ?

Re:

[rucs_hack]

Why use mp3 in a situation where you might be in trouble over patents? There are plenty of other codecs out there, ogg for one. Most ripper programs hat I know of can rip to ogg, and there are conversion tools. It wouldn't be hard to set up a conversion system.

How long is it until mp3 is out of patent anyway?

Re:

[shark72]

"Why use mp3 in a situation where you might be in trouble over patents? There are plenty of other codecs out there, ogg for one. Most ripper programs hat I know of can rip to ogg, and there are conversion tools. It wouldn't be hard to set up a conversion system."

Sadly, there's not much of a market for Ogg-only players. I'm perfectly aware that Slashdotters would have not the slightest issue with purchasing a FLAC-only or Ogg-only player, but we're the very tippy-top of the market. The Chinese knockoff v

Re:

[Dogtanian]

Why use mp3 in a situation where you might be in trouble over patents? There are plenty of other codecs out there, ogg for one. Most ripper programs hat I know of can rip to ogg, and there are conversion tools. It wouldn't be hard to set up a conversion system.

Because regardless of its merits, Ogg's usage is extremely rare outside of geek circles. Even amongst Slashdot readers, I'd guess that although most of us are aware of it, only a small proportion actually encode their music using it.

It's the old critical mass chicken-and-egg thing, and I'm not convinced that Ogg Vorbis will ever reach that breakthrough point.

As for conversion... frankly, most people would ask *why* they should bother converting their music to another format just to listen to it on some

Re:

[Cheesey]

Portable music player chipsets already include MP3 support, partly in hardware and partly in firmware. It would now actually be more expensive to build a player without MP3 support, since you could not use off-the-shelf components to do it. Patent royalties are a very small part of the total cost of the device. Really, it is a non-issue.

Re:

[LingNoi]

OGG is more CPU intensive compared to MP3 so it requires a faster CPU then a device that uses MP3 would need... and probably runs the battery out quicker.

Re:

[kent_eh]

If you mean US Patents, anywhere between 2007 and 2017 [tunequest.org] depending on which related patent you are talking about.

Re:Software patents?

[gweihir]

I thought software patents were illegal in Europe.

It is not about software patents. It is about embedded devices (hence not "computers") with a specific functionality profile. At least German law enforcement has not yet grasped that a phone can actually have software downloaded into it and so not all functionality is "hardcoded". Also a device can be in violation of "Musterschutz" (something like the "look" part from "look and feel"), by closly following the design of an other device.

Side note: MP3 as a method or as an encoder/decoder is not protected, but the parameter set used is (as far as I understand this). As to the CDs, these were likely counterfit, i.e. claiming a different manufacturer. That is trademark infringement. DVD copier could be classified as "circumvention device" for copy protection shemes, which are illegal in Germany. (I know, I know, lawmakers with no grasp of technology...)

My guess is that this raid will actually result in no or very little prosecution. But the displays have been removed, so the patent holders are satisfied. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to get any compensation for the damage done, even if equipment was seized in error.

Re:

[Hank Chinaski]

945 ZPO (German Civil Process Order) provides for damage compensation in such cases.

Re:

[gweihir]

945 ZPO (German Civil Process Order) provides for damage compensation in such cases.

Yes, but will this be adequate for loosing the mess exposure of a product, which can go into millions and more and is very hard to estimate?

Re:

[Splab]

No, illegal would make it criminal to have one.

Software patents are not honored by the EU patent court nor honored by most member countries. (Which means anyone being challenged about a software patent can get it to European court where such a suit would fail.)

Shh, don't give them ideas.

[thisissilly]

In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted,

I'm sure our lobbyists and politicians will get right to work on fixing that.

dept.?

[Xogede]

So, is this from the police dept.?

There are German companies with IP behind this

[postbigbang]

The Fraunhofer Institute, who invented the MP3 and makes similar formats, is likely a source of information about the violators of at least the codec IP infringement. MP3 and many other formats aren't in the public domain in the GPL sense. They're likely behind part of this.

Re:

[jeti]

No. Thompson manages the patents for the Fraunhofer institute.
They have nothing to do with this. Sisvel manages another stack
of patents that they claim to be relevant to the mp3 format.

Apparently, the most important of those patents is for a padding
bit. The idea is to add zeros to a VBR file so that a CBR only
decoder can handle the file.

Re:

[postbigbang]

So Thomson, a French company (if memory serves) is serving the interests of the Fraunhofer Institute? This would seem to make sense despite whose managing the IP-- it's an EU venue.

Re:

[no-body]

They're likely behind part of this.

That's very speculative, any source or quote would eliminate that.

And - Nope - it's those guys:

http://www.sisvel.com/ [sisvel.com] pushing the events.

They did it last year as well.

Apparently patent trolls - from their web site..

It looks like...

[magunning]

..a police station just got new kit on the cheap.

It's only to be expected.

[Mr. Bad Example]

The booths in question were from firms based in Poland, Hungary, and the former Czechoslovakia. It was just force of habit.

No criminal penalties in the US

[nurb432]

Today. Give the IP conglomerates a few more years of buying votes/laws and that may change. And just think, your tax dollars will be used to fund the raids on what should be a civil issue.

 

This was mostly about 'product piracy'.

[Qbertino]

This was mostly about cheap-ass asian style 'product piracy'. iPhone lookalikes with clear intent to be confused with the iPhone (right down to the packaging), 100% iPod shuffle ripp-offs and implementation of commercial MP3 decoders from companies who weren't paying the licencing fees to the Frauenhofer Institut.

The chinese ripping off IP is a big issue in Germany. They order a machine, dismantle it and copy it exactly, down to the last bolt and then sell cheap low-quality knock-offs of it back to Europe.

My cousin (engineer at Airbus) tells me there even is an Airbus 320 that went to China some time ago. That was it's only flight and it never appeared again. He suspects it's lying around somewhere dismantled and analysed.

Re:

[kju]

Once again: The iphone look-a-like was not confiscated, see http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/104591 [heise.de]
Law enforcement officials acknowledged that the raids were only for patent violations.

Re:This was mostly about 'product piracy'.

[Achromatic1978]

My cousin (engineer at Airbus) tells me there even is an Airbus 320 that went to China some time ago. That was it's only flight and it never appeared again. He suspects it's lying around somewhere dismantled and analysed.

Airbus sent a 55 million Euro aircraft to a client in China, it never came back, and they never asked for it back, and this has never been discussed in any media that I can find?

I'm not entirely convinced just yet.

The summary got it wrong

[Yvanhoe]

This was about counterfeiting, not patent violation. Quite ridiculous as well if you ask me, but the Polizei does not raid yet for patent violations.

The summary got it RIGHT

[kju]

No, actually you got it wrong. It was acknowledged by law enforcement officials that the raid was about patents. From http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/104657 [heise.de]:

Auslöser für die Aktion waren den Angaben der Staatsanwaltschaft zufolge Strafanzeigen der Rechteinhaber. Bei der Razzia sei es vorwiegend um Patente für Datenkompressionsverfahren, DVB-Standards und DVDs gegangen, sagte Kriminaloberrat Oliver Stock, der die Aktion koordiniert hatte und sich über einen "erfolgreichen Abschluss" freute.

Bad translation (by me):

According to the public prosecutors office complaints by holders of rights were reason for the action. Law enforcement senior councillor Oliver Stock who coordinated the action and was glad about the "successfull completion" said target of the raid where mainly patents for data compression, DVB standards and DVDs.

There were some initial (wrong) reports that reason for the raid was counterfeiting (iPhone look-a-likes) but these reports were later corrected, see for example http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/104591 [heise.de] (in english).

Re:

[Hank Chinaski]

Well, but the Zoll (Customs) does.

It is about software patents

[zoobab]

The patents claimed are the ones of Sisvel, a Philips proxytroll, who is suing every MP3 manufacturer for royalties.

They have a list of 3 or 4 software patents which belongs to the MPEG1-layer3 ISO standard, be it implemented in hardware of in software:

http://www.ipeg.com/_UPLOAD%20BLOG/Sisvel%20patents%20overview.pdf [ipeg.com]

The German police is using the criminal procedure to seize counterfeited goods, despite the fact that those patents could be challenged in court for validity.

If there are some MP3 manufacturers

...yet...

[erroneus]

In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted, especially in the absence of a court ruling of infringement.

All I have to add to that is "...yet..."

Didn't something pass recently creating an "IP Police force" or something along those lines? Sounds to me like they're preparing to do exactly that.

Wow

[rastoboy29]

Down the rabbit hole we go....

ogg

[EEPROMS]

The laugh is many of these companies (including Meizu) would not have had any legal issues if they had used the free and open source ogg format. Many games now use ogg rather than put up with the patent trolling nightmare that is MP3.

Good Editor!

[GlobalEcho]

In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted, especially in the absence of a court ruling of infringement.

Sometimes the Slashdot editors can be frustrating, but this is a good example where a quick sentence added on to the submitted summary was informative, and probably headed off a large number of misguided posts. Kudos.

Re:very, very dangerous

[FudRucker]

the german govenment installed gestapo-2.0

Re:Somehow I get the impression they want it to di

[speedbiker]

Both MS (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=004 [cebit.de]) and Sun (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=002 [cebit.de]) did attend this year's show.

Re:

[BryanL]

And I would like to say 40 from Asia and and 11 from Europe.

The fact is, although I know the distinction is lost on some, that, while technically China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macao are all "Chinese", they are not one culture. Heck even those from mainland China are not all one culture. I have had friends from each country and some identify more with their region than with "China" (that is especially true of those from Taiwan).

Personally I am not so troubled with your comment, which I think was made in jest.

Re:9 from German

[Heir Of The Mess]

24 were from mainland China, three from Hong Kong and 12 from Taiwan

I'd like to say 39 were Chinese.

Nice troll, and quite a hot topic in the region at the moment. Interesting how an off topic, political troll got modded +5 informative. Must be a lot of pro one china types with mod points today who read slashdot before they started work. Interesting times ahead I think.