Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database

An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"

Don't tell Chef but

Just go to Radio Shack and buy an ohmmeter. They're a lot cheaper.

Re:Don't tell Chef but

But I'm Hindu you insensitive clod! I have to use an Aum [wikipedia.org]-meter for my religious measurements!

short answer

Short answer, no.

This is favoritism. Microsoft doesn't even have this ability to stop the resale of their software.

Re:short answer

It isn't even favoritism, it's outright stupid given CoS' past abuses.

Re:short answer

It's outright stupid, period. Why does ebay give this power to anyone? What do they possibly stand to gain from it? And how on earth does the CoS, or anyone, restrict after-market resale of their products? It's called the free market and it's America. Licensing software is one thing, but a physical object? What ?

Re:short answer

eBay explains here [ebay.com] why they do it. I would guess that it's easier for them(read: costs less money) to simply let the companies do the work of deleting auctions, rather than have the company call or email eBay every time they want something taken down.

I especially love their section on how things won't be mistakenly removed:

How eBay helps to ensure that listings aren't mistakenly removed. A rights owner reporting through VeRO must be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay.

Ooooh! Legal binding documents, I feel so safe.

Re:short answer

You know, I simply don't understand why the government lets $cientology have its cake and eat it too. If they're a religion, then they shouldn't be afforded all these civil protections. I'm not going to get sued by my local Catholic Diocese if I print nasty bits from the Bible or some part of the latest Papal encyclical.

I think the government should give $cientology a choice; either be a religion, in which case you can't sue, you can't seek special favors from companies over the resale of your products, and so forth, or you're not a religion, and you're a business, in which case you've got to pay taxes on moneys or products changing hands.

And in either case, their lawyers should be disbarred for multiple cases of malicious prosecution.

Or, in short form, FUCK $CIENTOLOGY.

Is this legal?

Is it, in general, legal to allow a vendor to prevent the resale of their product? I don't understand why this would be considered beneficial to society or why it wouldn't be considered monopolistic.

Of course, I'm no lawyer, but I've heard that everyone on Slashdot is.

this = Scientology

Though the fraud claim will probably lead to slashdot getting sued, Germany http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/12/08/scientology_facing_ban_in_germany/5643/ [upi.com] and several other countries have taken steps to limit scientology within their borders. While many might seek to compare this to the actions of many Islamist states, scientology's claims often involve situations that fall under racketeering laws not aspects of religious freedom.

Re:Is this legal?

I'm an eBay PowerSeller, and I can tell you that it's rampant. eBay's "VeRO" program is regularly abused by liars who have no right to interfere in aftermarket sales of their products, gambling on the fact that you won't file in federal court to contest their "good faith" declarations.

Re:Is this legal?

Preventing the resale is one thing, direct access to a market is unprecidented. Since scientology doesn't actually own these devices any longer and ebay has given then direct access to removing these devices from private sale this is definatly a step over the line.

Imagine if the makers of the other products out there followed suit. You would not be able to purchase second hand goods. Only directly from the original outlet. Kinda stifles the economy since the majority of vehicles out there are purchased as used items. Just one example but it would have a very bad impact if this method of controlling profit spreads.

What will Anonymous do?

Seems to me that given the recent Project Chanology protests against Scientology, this would be the perfect time for Anonymous to organize a massive boycott of eBay. Or worse, expand their DOS and hack attacks to include eBay, since they're cooperating with the CoS.

Posting this AC because, frankly, I don't want anybody to think I'm advocating this. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

do they also have access to customer info?

Do they just have the ability to delete sales, or do they also have access to the details of who's been bidding, selling, and buying?

Yet another reason to not use EBay or PayPal.

Curious

Who knew the NSA is the least the vast conspiracy-minded unwashed have to fear.

I wonder who at eBay is high up the kook-chain in Scientology?

Re:Curious

Well, if you RTFA, it has nothing to do with insider knowledge. Instead:

"The mechanism that permits the Church of Scientology (and others) such broad access and discretion is called the Verified Rights Owner ("VeRO") Program. Membership in VeRO is obtained simply by submitting a form to eBay explaining that you are an Intellectual Property rights holder. ... It should come as little surprise that VeRO members routinely overreach, as the cost of challenging a listing removal is almost always prohibitive. ... The VeRO Program makes a great deal of sense for some types of listings -- counterfeit Rolexes and Gucci handbags appear on eBay with such frequent regularity that those companies would be hard pressed to handle these trademark violations any other way."

eBay has more info about their VeRO program [ebay.com].

Basically, the original summary is misleading: lots of companies (e.g. copyright/trademark holders) have access to directly delete auctions on eBay. The Slyentologists are only one of many (but they're fun to pick on!).

does this work for every producer

If I am the manufaturer of a widgit, what do I have to do to gain access to Ebay to delete whatever auctions I want? Do I just have to write in the EULA that I have this right and then go onto Ebay and delete the auctions of competitors.

F-meter

I think their membership is ready for an F-meter which indicates just how much they are being fucked over by their own church.

Uh, what?

I was under the impression this was exactly the kind of reason eBay existed. "hey, i don't use this junk anymore, what'll you give me for it?" If the "church" was really given this kind of power, that's just not right.

Perhaps if they wanted to curb the resale of their devices, they should offer some sort of buy back program? They'll still turn around and sell them again and make a profit.

Off topic, yet...

"Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39."

http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/lonsdale1.html [xenu-directory.net]

That's pretty sad.

Anything for Tom

It is a privilege to do everything in our power for Tom. This crap is so valuable, you should pay a lot to prove you are a sucker.

indulgences

Hopefully the Catholics won't find out I've been reselling my indulgences too!

Ebay is right on schedule

If what they want is to put an end to their online existence. Giving CoS carte blanc to delete auctions is worse that putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Was Ebay, presumable savvy to how the Internet works, thinking nobody would notice this? What kind of drugs do you have to take to get that delusional?

The cat is out of the bag anyway

A quick google for "e-meter schematic" reveals about 1200 pages. The first few that I checked have the circuit diagram for the e-meter, often directly drawn from L. Ron Hubbard's 1966 patent.

For those who can't figure out the diagram, it's basically a Wheatstone bridge with a simple (crappy) differential amplifier. It's the sort of thing anyone could build from pennies worth of components.

Re:easy answer -or- +5 insightful

If that's "+5 Insightful" around here these day, then I want a piece of the action: 1 + 1 = 2. This profound result is equally surprising.

Re:how direct an access is what bother me more

At the top of that page:

This list of rights owners DOES NOT include all rights owners that report through the VeRO Program. These are the rights owners that have chosen to post About Me pages. Many other rights owners have chosen not to maintain an About Me page.